Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[chez]

Trump did the best he could.  A lot of info was not available.  But he shut down China's travel to the USA early when Biden didn't think it was necessary.  He started warp speed and everyone laughed at him when he said we'd have vaccines by the end of the year.  So here were are with three of them, two at 95% effectiveness.  We were short PPE including ventilators and he fixed that problem by sending subsequent spare capacity to other countries.  When NYC and other west coast cities didn't have enough hospital space, he provided hospital ships and had the Amry build temporary hospitals. 

The day to day rules are not in the Federal government's prerogative.  These are mandated by each of the fifty governors. They're the ones responsible for opening and closing businesses, quarantining other states, and setting standards.  I'm a Trump supporter but I wear a mask.  Everyone has to make their own decisions.  Why did Democrat Gov Newsom not wear a mask against his own rules?  I guess he must be secretly a Trump supporter. 

What's Trump doing TODAY as 2,000 people die. Could he not get onto the tube and encourage wearing a mask? Could he not get onto the tube and encourage people not to travel for Thanksgiving? Could he not encourage people to not gather at friends places? Could he not encourage not to travel if it isn't essential?

Again Alan, do you really feel Trump did everything he could to better manage the virus?

[chez]

But the statistics are changing.  Europe and Canada are on a tear. Let's check them again in a month, a year.  Remember, it's not over until the fat lady sings.

Yes, everyone is getting hit harder...but where else are 2,000 people dying every day? Where else are 200,000 new cases being found everyday? Where else are refrigerator trucks lining up to serve as morgues?

[Alan Klein]

What's Trump doing TODAY as 2,000 people die. Could he not get onto the tube and encourage wearing a mask? Could he not get onto the tube and encourage people not to travel for Thanksgiving? Could he not encourage people to not gather at friends places? Could he not encourage not to travel if it isn't essential?

Again Alan, do you really feel Trump did everything he could to better manage the virus?

Well, maybe he could do that.  But the governors are calling for it.  But only partially.  For example, here in New Jersey, they've lowered the gathering amount from 25 to 10 people indoors and from 500 to 150 people outdoors.  Does any reasonable person really think that makes sense? If someone is infected and visits with a group of ten rather than 25, or 150 instead of 500, he's still going to spread it.  But they're trying to split the baby. It comes off as insincere and fake.  Either people are going to have get-togethers with family for Thanksgiving and CHristmas and Chanukah, or they're not, as my wife and I won't.  But to make a rule than 10 is good and 25 isn;t is just silly and people are going to laugh at it.  It makes all the other rules questioned.  I don't blame the governors.  They really don't know what to do.  Their state treasuries are going bankrupt and they need businesses to operate to provide the taxes.  Yet, their people are dying. They're caught on the horns of a dilemma.

[Alan Klein]

Yes, everyone is getting hit harder...but where else are 2,000 people dying every day? Where else are 200,000 new cases being found everyday? Where else are refrigerator trucks lining up to serve as morgues?

You're gloating.

[TechTalk]

Many people here always are talking about America and knocking it as if it was an outlier. The point I'm making about Canada's escalating rate is that no one has gotten this right at least in the Western world.  A little humility from the America knockers is called for.   As an American, why don't you stand up for your own country.  That's disgusting.

Your desire to point fingers at or mock other countries as they struggle with containing a killer virus is disgusting and is of no value whatever in controlling that same virus in the United States. It's nothing more than a pathetic knee-jerk emotional reaction which you seem to also believe is patriotic on your part which is ridiculous. It certainly doesn't indicate that you have any serious interest in discussing what's happing in your own country. It's just the same old transparent and repetitious "what about" diversion which you use as a crutch and defense shield.

If your house has a leaking roof, pointing to your neighbors house or mocking its condition will not stop water from coming into your own. Defending your maintenance man that did a poor job of protecting your home, by pointing at your neighbors house will also not stop the rain. It doesn't make you a better homeowner, neighbor, or a patriot.

[Robert Roaldi]

You're gloating.

No he's not, so knock it off.

[faberryman]

Trump did the best he could.

Most of the guys on the third string of the peewee football team did the best they could too.

[chez]

You're gloating.

No, just putting the facts out there. You should be disgusted with your countries handling of this virus...just like you should be disgusted with Trump's losing election tactics.

The rest of the world is watching.

[faberryman]

...But they're trying to split the baby...They're caught on the horns of a dilemma.

Black and white thinking.

[Alan Klein]

Your desire to point fingers at or mock other countries as they struggle with containing a killer virus is disgusting and is of no value whatever in controlling that same virus in the United States. It's nothing more than a pathetic knee-jerk emotional reaction which you seem to also believe is patriotic on your part which is ridiculous. It certainly doesn't indicate that you have any serious interest in discussing what's happing in your own country. It's just the same old transparent and repetitious "what about" diversion which you use as a crutch and defense shield.

If your house has a leaking roof, pointing to your neighbors house or mocking its condition will not stop water from coming into your own. Defending your maintenance man that did a poor job of protecting your home, by pointing at your neighbors house will also not stop the rain. It doesn't make you a better homeowner, neighbor, or a patriot.

But you and others are the ones always comparing statistics between America and other countries.  It's you that are using "what aboutism".  Now that it's getting bad in these other countries again, you want to ignore it and complain that I shouldn't compare. You want it both ways.

[Alan Klein]

No he's not, so knock it off.

He's gloating.  I won't knock it off. 

[Alan Klein]

No, just putting the facts out there. You should be disgusted with your countries handling of this virus...just like you should be disgusted with Trump's losing election tactics.

The rest of the world is watching.

The part I'm disgusted with is that because of the presidential election, the virus was made into a political football.  That reason and balance were thrown out the window as each side jockeyed for political advantage. 

[faberryman]

A safe environment works counter to an operating economy.  There's no way to split the baby.

More black and white thinking.

[LesPalenik]

If you check the article I linked to earlier, it says Canada's could go up to 20,000 a day soon.  That's about 180,000 equivalent if adjusted for population very comparable to America's case statistics.  Are we testing the same? 

The current modelling calls for 20,000 cases/day if nothing is done. If the restrictions are loosened, the number of cases could actually go up all the way to 60,000. However, in the next few days, most provinces are reverting back to lockdowns and other measures, which should maintain or hopefully reduce the current numbers. 

Instead of fixating on the infections increase in Canada from 5,000 to 20,000, you might contemplate a similar increase in USA - equivalent to 800,000 infections a day. It could even get worse than that. How would the hospitals deal with that?

[Alan Klein]

The current modelling calls for 20,000 cases/day if nothing is done. If the restrictions are loosened, the number of cases could actually go up all the way to 60,000. However, in the next few days, most provinces are reverting back to lockdowns and other measures, which should maintain or hopefully reduce the current numbers. 

Instead of fixating on the infections increase in Canada from 5,000 to 20,000, you might contemplate a similar increase in USA - equivalent to 800,000 infections a day. It could even get worse than that. How would the hospitals deal with that?

Biden will have to build hospitals and send Navy hospital ships like Trump did. 

[LesPalenik]

Biden will have to build hospitals and send Navy hospital ships like Trump did.

Much easier to stay at home or to wear a mask.

[faberryman]

Let's face facts. Trump quit doing anything at the end of April when he was mocked for suggesting at a press conference that COVID could be treated by injecting disinfectant into patients' lungs. So Trump didn't do the best he could; he just quit.

[Alan Klein]

Much easier to stay at home or to don a mask.

Actually, I don't think it will reach that point again.  Doctors have learned a lot since the Spring. Care in hospitals has changed.  There are now drugs they can give.    Breathers aren't required as much.  Better procedures are in place. Even in the Spring, the hospital ships were hardly used and were removed.  Hospitals they built also had minimal use and were shut down in short order. I suspect this is going to be a very bad season.  What with the holidays, and cold weather when people stay in more, rates are going to escalate a lot.  That's probably what's happening now in Canada as well.  Actually, it might be a good time to go to Florida so you can stay out in the fresh, clean, and healthy air taking in all those warm tropical breezes.

[faberryman]

Breathers aren't required as much.

They are not breathers; they are ventilators.

[faberryman]

Actually, I don't think it will reach that point again. Doctors have learned a lot since the Spring. Care in hospitals has changed. There are now drugs they can give. Breathers aren't required as much. Better procedures are in place.

That's why only 2618 people in the U.S. died yesterday.