Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[James Clark]

You have done what you consider adequate research on the internet, the arbiter of truth in our society, and have determined masks don't help. Fine. Don't wear one. Why do you keep bleating on and on about it?

Because TEH LIBS are trying to take away his freedumbs or something.

[faberryman]

So, Biden just hired someone to oversee a task force for a virus that kills mainly people over 75 who once argued that during a pandemic people over 75 should not get a vaccine because they already lead a complete life.

I think you should re-read the article more carefully.

[Robert Roaldi]

We have pretty much beaten this mask mandate thing to death. I haven’t seen anyone except Joe say there are any downsides to a mask mandate. We have seat belt and motorcycle helmet laws. Sure, there are people who don’t follow them. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have them. The anti seat belt and motorcycle helmet guys always say they don’t save lives and point to articles on the internet to support their position. So what. Masks aren’t a panacea. Just one tool in the toolkit. Scientists seem to think they help. Of course, some guys say we shouldn’t listen to the scientists because the have been wrong before. So what. Wear a mask, don’t wear a mask. Your choice. Wash your hands, don’t wash your hands. Your choice.

I saw a photo taken at an anti-mask demonstration in Montreal (I think) a few weeks ago in which just behind the main subjects was a guy holding up a sign that said, "Oxygen is important." A pretty anodyne kind of protest sign, I thought, it is true of course, strictly speaking, but I assume he meant that wearing masks is an issue because they block oxygen intake. I never did the google search to try to find stories of paint shop employees or wood-workers or surgical teams passing out from oxygen deprivation, even though they all wear masks for hours on end.

Then a Far Side Gary Larson-esque cartoon idea occurred to me: an operating room scene where just after the anaesthetic knocks out the patient, the surgical team members whip off their masks to party.

[faberryman]

How is this worse than the Gore chad issue during the 2000 election that had to go to the Supreme Court to get resolved?

At least we knew in 2000 there was actually an issue, instead of a lot of hand waving about massive voter fraud.

[James Clark]

At least we knew in 2000 there was actually an issue, instead of a lot of hand waving about massive voter fraud.

It really ought to be "massive voter fraud" or, alternatively, MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD!!!

[Robert Roaldi]

Biden's economic plan will bankrupt America. It's Socialist.  He wants to redistribute the wealth of the country.

Well, if Obama's 8 years, and Clinton's 8 years and Carter's time and JFK's time, didn't bankrupt the country, not sure why you're worried now. I mean, judging by any objective measure, the country did ok, especially the 1%.

I think you may be exaggerating. Btw, why did you capitalize "Socialist"? 

I also don't know what you mean by redistributing the wealth of the country. Wealth has been steadily redistributing to the 1% for decades now, is that what you mean?

[John Camp]

My post had nothing to do with electoral count.   I was only pointing out that despite 5 years of attacks on Trump including impeachment, collusion,  Russia, treason, etc.  Trump increased the percent of people who voted for him. Why? Did the public ignore the media's claims? Were they crying wolf too much? Was Biden a weak candidate?

Because Trump is a gifted con man.

[Robert Roaldi]

Remember back in the day when this kind of second-rate sh*t show only occurred in what we used to call "third world shit holes", https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/11/trump-fraud-claims-gop-435884. Is this another consequence of globalization?   

[James Clark]

Remember back in the day when this kind of second-rate sh*t show only occurred in what we used to call "third world shit holes", https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/11/trump-fraud-claims-gop-435884. Is this another consequence of globalization?   

Semi-related, according to Bill Kristol (traditional conservative, anti-Trump), "...A sign of the loyalty-oath atmosphere now at DOD: When Jim Anderson was fired yesterday as Acting Under Secretary for Policy, he was given a "clap-out" as he left the building. The WH called to request names of any political appointees who joined in so they could be fired."

[chez]

Remember back in the day when this kind of second-rate sh*t show only occurred in what we used to call "third world shit holes", https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/11/trump-fraud-claims-gop-435884. Is this another consequence of globalization?   

Nope, just conman and narcissists run those "sh*t hole countries" and here in the USA...we'll never mind.

[Robert Roaldi]

Semi-related, according to Bill Kristol (traditional conservative, anti-Trump), "...A sign of the loyalty-oath atmosphere now at DOD: When Jim Anderson was fired yesterday as Acting Under Secretary for Policy, he was given a "clap-out" as he left the building. The WH called to request names of any political appointees who joined in so they could be fired."

Classy bunch.  How does an adult professional even find the time to dream up nonsense like that?

But who knows, it might turn out to be a badge of honour to be fired by these twerps. Can you imagine the kind of sycophantic swamp rat that would end up working in these jobs if that was allowed to continue for a few years. Might as well bring back monarchist rule.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Back to the mask debate, I have asked repeatably for people here to show me the data that shows masks do something.  Not opinion pieces, and I do'nt give a rat's ass if the opinion piece is written by a doctor, but I want to see actual data. 

So far the two studies I have looked at where the data is available, there is no correlation between wearing masks and stopping the spread. A near equal percentage of persons in both the experiment group and control group wore masks, which implies there is no correlation to wearing a mask to keep from getting it. 

Now these studies do show that the ways in which you increase your chances of catching is if a close family member has it or if you dine out. 

So, once again, if masks actually do something, show me the data, because so far I have seen no data set that supports this notion.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30352-0/fulltext

[faberryman]

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30352-0/fulltext

Joe's exhaustive research comprised of reading two articles on the internet has convinced him that wearing masks is not helpful in deterring transmission of COVID. There is little to be gained by trying to convince him otherwise.

[kers]

about wearing a mask;
This photo is from 1918- Spanish Flew

[Alan Klein]

I saw a photo taken at an anti-mask demonstration in Montreal (I think) a few weeks ago in which just behind the main subjects was a guy holding up a sign that said, "Oxygen is important." A pretty anodyne kind of protest sign, I thought, it is true of course, strictly speaking, but I assume he meant that wearing masks is an issue because they block oxygen intake. I never did the google search to try to find stories of paint shop employees or wood-workers or surgical teams passing out from oxygen deprivation, even though they all wear masks for hours on end.

Then a Far Side Gary Larson-esque cartoon idea occurred to me: an operating room scene where just after the anaesthetic knocks out the patient, the surgical team members whip off their masks to party.

I find that our KN-95 masks clog up my nose and I find it hard to breathe after twenty minutes or so.  Then my nose runs and I have to blow it so I can breathe.  It's very annoying,  I could try clothe type masks.  But they're not as good, supposedly.  You shouldn't assume everyone is like you.

[Alan Klein]

At least we knew in 2000 there was actually an issue, instead of a lot of hand waving about massive voter fraud.

There was no issue.  It was an excuse.  Gore only wanted a recount in the PAlm, Dade and Broward counties of Florida which are overwhelmingly Democratic.  He actually conceded.  But then changed his mind after other Democrats told him he should try to change the result.  So he went for it.  He hired the best lawyers, election and constitutional, in the nation.  He caused massive confusion, much worse than what's happening now.  But certainly he had a right to try because it was close.  Well Trump's entitled to.  That's what the courts are for.   

[William Walker]

In other news, and this I find to be both amusing and scary at the same time, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is now heading up Biden C-19 team. 

If you are wondering why this is scary, well a few years back Ezekiel Emanuel penned a whole article in which he argued people should not live past 75. 

Why I Hope to Die at 75

According to him, 75 is the best age to die at and it would be a net positive for society if we just let those over 75 whom "... are no longer remembered as vibrant and engaged but as feeble, ineffectual, even pathetic" (just think of Joe Biden) just die without trying to save them.  We should instead save those resources for younger more vibrant persons. 

He even went so far as to write if you're over 75 "... Flu shots are out. Certainly if there were to be a flu pandemic, a younger person who has yet to live a complete life ought to get the vaccine or any antiviral drugs."

So, Biden just hired someone to oversee a task force for a virus that kills mainly people over 75 who once argued that during a pandemic people over 75 should not get a vaccine because they already lead a complete life.  This is kind of a conflict of interest, don't you think?

Thanks for the link Joe, I really enjoyed the article and would encourage all the other "old bullets" on this forum to read it.
My wife has received new instructions!

[Craig Lamson]

About that postal service guy recanting or not. No need to decide whether he did or didn't. Wait and see. No need to take up sides 30 seconds after something does or doesn't happen. It is interesting to see what media different individuals go to for news though. So go straight for the conspiracy theory sites.

Heres the problem with news. The "real"media is not being real these days.  In this instance, why would any outlet NOT ask the guy directly, or at least try?  Instead we get the same basic report from all the real media based on a tweet and a couple of "unnamed sources".  We heard them all tell us a few weeks ago they could not report a word about the laptop because they could not "verify" the material.  Yet here they have the headline they want so they don't really worry about verification, and even diss the main actor when he tries to talk to them. 

Its a shame we have to look outside the "real" media to see if something else might be going on.  They have proventhey are no longer trustworthy, at least in my eyes.  The problem is conspiracies do exist.  And sometimes its the people you are supposed to trust.

[Alan Klein]

Well, if Obama's 8 years, and Clinton's 8 years and Carter's time and JFK's time, didn't bankrupt the country, not sure why you're worried now. I mean, judging by any objective measure, the country did ok, especially the 1%.

I think you may be exaggerating. Btw, why did you capitalize "Socialist"? 

I also don't know what you mean by redistributing the wealth of the country. Wealth has been steadily redistributing to the 1% for decades now, is that what you mean?

Redistribution is bad regardless of who gets it.  Crony Capitalism is bad as well.  Most of the money printing is going to the wealthy now in asset appreciation which will change when the economy sinks and the markets sink as well.   But also to everyone else. That's wrong.  But we shouldn't redistribute it to anyone.  Trump printed as much as any socialist around.  He's no better.  Never said he was.  But Biden's bought into to it from AOC and other Socialists. He'll print til the cows home home.  The only thing holding it back a little would be a Republican Senate.  But they're not much better.

By the way, all this printing and deficit spending is breaking the country.  That's one of he reasons why there is such a huge gap between wealthy and poor.  Money has been devalued so people's wages aren't worth anything anymore.  Taxes have gone up to pay for more government spending.  So people have less net income.  Wives have had to go to work to support the household where before the husband was able to feed the family on his one salary. 

The country's debt has more than doubled since Obama took over.  This chart ends last year at 2019.  The Debt is now 130% of the GDP.  That means taxes go up and business and jobs go down to try to pay it back.  But there's no incentive to pay it back.  Biden will continue printing as Trump did, probably worse.  Your salary and my pension won't be worth squat.

[Alan Klein]

Because Trump is a gifted con man.

Well, aren't all politicians?