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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 471203 times)

TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #800 on: November 10, 2020, 10:14:54 pm »

Fake news.  They have the guy an tape saying he did not recant.

Postal worker says he did not recant.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/11/10/post_office_whistleblower_to_washington_post_i_did_not_recant_my_statement_about_ballot_tampering.html#!

That's not what the USPS IG is telling to Congress. 

Did you look at Craig's link? He's got Larry @Larry64364562 telling Jack Posobiec (the alt-right conspiracy giant) with a video of some guy talking who could be the USPS whistleblower. And backed up by James O'Keefe of Project Veritas fame!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Posobiec

What have you got? Just the Congressional House Oversight Committee and Investigators from The Inspector General's Office who interviewed the USPS worker and report that he recanted. I mean... who are you going to believe here?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #801 on: November 10, 2020, 10:15:30 pm »

Yeh it's getting a little tiring hearing you defend Chetos right to the end. I'm sure you are smarter than that. I believe you know how effective strong leadership is with many cases throughout the years showing how influential leadership is.

I just think you've been backed into a corner and rather than agreeing that if Trump lead from the beginning with the accepted practices of wearing masks, keeping distances and washing hands, the USA would have faired much better than where they are today...you just repeat your nonsense with nothing that backs it up.

If you don’t like it, then run along.  No one has a gun to your head.



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chez

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #802 on: November 10, 2020, 10:17:37 pm »

If you don’t like it, then run along.  No one has a gun to your head.

Craig, I'll do one better. You are hidden.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #803 on: November 10, 2020, 10:19:44 pm »

Did you look at Craig's link? He's got Larry @Larry64364562 telling Jack Posobiec (the alt-right conspiracy giant) with a video of some guy talking who could be the USPS whistleblower. And backed up by James O'Keefe of Project Veritas fame!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Posobiec

What have you got? Just the Congressional House Oversight Committee and Investigators from The Inspector General's Office who interviewed the USPS worker and report that he recanted. I mean... who are you going to believe here?

Please show us the actual words of the IG.  Surely you have that, right?  If that’s not the guy and the video is false, prove it.  Trying to shoot the messenger is a pretty poor attempt , even for you.

A quote from one of the many articles...

Asked for confirmation, a spokesman for the U.S. Postal Service Office of Inspector General told the Washington Examiner the department does not comment on "ongoing matters."
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 10:26:07 pm by Craig Lamson »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #804 on: November 10, 2020, 10:38:36 pm »

From the United States House Committee on Oversight...  https://twitter.com/OversightDems/whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations after being questioned by investigators, according to IG

Time will tell who has better information from the IG Inspectors, Jack Posobiec and James O'Keefe or Congress. I hate to seem skeptical of the dynamic duo of Posobiec and O'Keefe, but one should consider the source of these things and well...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 12:18:52 am by TechTalk »
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TechTalk

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #805 on: November 11, 2020, 12:11:25 am »

They pandemic response team was moved.  Period.  Sorry but that’s just the fact. 

One quote that describes the process:

One such move at the NSC was to create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which was the result of consolidating three directorates into one, given the obvious overlap between arms control and nonproliferation, weapons of mass destruction terrorism, and global health and biodefense. It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled.


https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/nsc-pandemic-office-wasnt-shuttered-just-consolidated/

No need to be sorry. You didn't decide to eliminate the senior administration level status of Global Health Security within the NSC. It was—and still is—a controversial decision which eliminated the position of a senior level director at NSC focused on tracking and coordinating response to pandemic threats and merging it from its own lane into a group which covers arms control and nonproliferation. It is diluted by losing its individual direction, senior level connection and voice, and having to compete for attention with other security concerns within a consolidated group sharing a lane.

Homeland Security Today - May 11, 2018

"The top White House official responsible for leading the U.S. response in the event of a deadly pandemic has left the administration, and the global health security team he oversaw has been disbanded under a reorganization by national security adviser John Bolton.

The abrupt departure of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer from the National Security Council means no senior administration official is now focused solely on global health security. Ziemer’s departure, along with the breakup of his team, comes at a time when many experts say the country is already underprepared for the increasing risks of a pandemic or bioterrorism attack.

Ziemer’s last day was Tuesday, the same day a new Ebola outbreak was declared in Congo. He is not being replaced.

Pandemic preparedness and global health security are issues that require government-wide responses, experts say, as well as the leadership of a high-ranking official within the White House who is assigned only this role."

https://www.hstoday.us/subject-matter-areas/emergency-preparedness/top-white-house-official-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly

Just Security - March 16, 2020

"The organizational structure that is left after a concerted effort to “streamline” reveals what you actually care about. Bolton’s chosen approach to NSC “streamlining” involved decapitating and diluting the White House’s focus on pandemic threats. He eliminated the Senior Director position entirely, closed the biodefense directorate, and spread the remaining staff across other parts of the NSC. That’s the opposite of streamlining. Instead of giving the issue a distinct institutional presence, expertise, and voice in the policy process, Bolton’s reorganization left it fragmented across other directorates that were focused on other higher priorities.

Bolton’s organizational choices meant the NSC didn’t have a cohesive team able to elevate pandemic readiness expertise directly to senior leaders. Instead, the NSC had director-level subject-matter experts scattered around with limited influence and little ability to reach decision-makers. These people were highly capable and impressive, but their influence was diluted by the new structure. This can cost lives in a crisis. As Cameron wrote, “In a health security crisis, speed is essential. When this new coronavirus emerged, there was no clear White House-led structure to oversee our response, and we lost valuable time.”

https://www.justsecurity.org/69197/lessons-ignored-john-boltons-bogus-defense-of-streamlining-away-our-bio-readiness/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/28/the-next-pandemic-will-be-arriving-shortly-global-health-infectious-avian-flu-ebola-zoonotic-diseases-trump

https://www.politico.com/2020/03/12/america-national-security-viral-threat
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 12:33:23 am by TechTalk »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #806 on: November 11, 2020, 02:25:27 am »

We have pretty much beaten this mask mandate thing to death. I haven’t seen anyone except Joe say there are any downsides to a mask mandate. We have seat belt and motorcycle helmet laws. Sure, there are people who don’t follow them. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have them. The anti seat belt and motorcycle helmet guys always say they don’t save lives and point to articles on the internet to support their position. So what. Masks aren’t a panacea. Just one tool in the toolkit. Scientists seem to think they help. Of course, some guys say we shouldn’t listen to the scientists because the have been wrong before. So what. Wear a mask, don’t wear a mask. Your choice. Wash your hands, don’t wash your hands. Your choice.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 07:00:28 am by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #807 on: November 11, 2020, 06:18:08 am »

No need to be sorry. You didn't decide to eliminate the senior administration level status of Global Health Security within the NSC. It was—and still is—a controversial decision which eliminated the position of a senior level director at NSC focused on tracking and coordinating response to pandemic threats and merging it from its own lane into a group which covers arms control and nonproliferation. It is diluted by losing its individual direction, senior level connection and voice, and having to compete for attention with other security concerns within a consolidated group sharing a lane.

Homeland Security Today - May 11, 2018

"The top White House official responsible for leading the U.S. response in the event of a deadly pandemic has left the administration, and the global health security team he oversaw has been disbanded under a reorganization by national security adviser John Bolton.

The abrupt departure of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer from the National Security Council means no senior administration official is now focused solely on global health security. Ziemer’s departure, along with the breakup of his team, comes at a time when many experts say the country is already underprepared for the increasing risks of a pandemic or bioterrorism attack.

Ziemer’s last day was Tuesday, the same day a new Ebola outbreak was declared in Congo. He is not being replaced.

Pandemic preparedness and global health security are issues that require government-wide responses, experts say, as well as the leadership of a high-ranking official within the White House who is assigned only this role."

https://www.hstoday.us/subject-matter-areas/emergency-preparedness/top-white-house-official-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly

Just Security - March 16, 2020

"The organizational structure that is left after a concerted effort to “streamline” reveals what you actually care about. Bolton’s chosen approach to NSC “streamlining” involved decapitating and diluting the White House’s focus on pandemic threats. He eliminated the Senior Director position entirely, closed the biodefense directorate, and spread the remaining staff across other parts of the NSC. That’s the opposite of streamlining. Instead of giving the issue a distinct institutional presence, expertise, and voice in the policy process, Bolton’s reorganization left it fragmented across other directorates that were focused on other higher priorities.

Bolton’s organizational choices meant the NSC didn’t have a cohesive team able to elevate pandemic readiness expertise directly to senior leaders. Instead, the NSC had director-level subject-matter experts scattered around with limited influence and little ability to reach decision-makers. These people were highly capable and impressive, but their influence was diluted by the new structure. This can cost lives in a crisis. As Cameron wrote, “In a health security crisis, speed is essential. When this new coronavirus emerged, there was no clear White House-led structure to oversee our response, and we lost valuable time.”

https://www.justsecurity.org/69197/lessons-ignored-john-boltons-bogus-defense-of-streamlining-away-our-bio-readiness/

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/28/the-next-pandemic-will-be-arriving-shortly-global-health-infectious-avian-flu-ebola-zoonotic-diseases-trump

https://www.politico.com/2020/03/12/america-national-security-viral-threat

We can play dueling quotes forever as that your stock in trade but the fact remains they got moved and absorbed in to another group.  You can argue it was as effective as before ( of course we will never really know) but it does not change the fact the group was consolidated within another group.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #808 on: November 11, 2020, 06:22:14 am »

From the United States House Committee on Oversight...  https://twitter.com/OversightDems/whistleblower completely RECANTED his allegations after being questioned by investigators, according to IG

Time will tell who has better information from the IG Inspectors, Jack Posobiec and James O'Keefe or Congress. I hate to seem skeptical of the dynamic duo of Posobiec and O'Keefe, but one should consider the source of these things and well...

Yes time will tell.  At least they were talking to the whistleblower.  Can you quote one to tne "real" news sources that talked to the whistleblower for his side of the story, or even tried? 

More video, and the claim the whistleblower tried to contact the press and they dissewd him..
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-project-veritas-releases-shocking-recordings-federal-agents-trying-intimidate-usps-whistleblower-recanting-election-fraud-claim/
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 06:51:10 am by Craig Lamson »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #809 on: November 11, 2020, 06:53:01 am »

Maybe there's a contest on to see who is weirder, Pompano or Giuliani. My money's on Rudy, he's got a great head start.

Rudy is clearly the weirder. He's whackadoodle. Pompeo is sane, an ass kisser, but sane. He got his aides to walk his dog.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 09:59:52 am by faberryman »
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #810 on: November 11, 2020, 07:07:07 am »

About that postal service guy recanting or not. No need to decide whether he did or didn't. Wait and see. No need to take up sides 30 seconds after something does or doesn't happen. It is interesting to see what media different individuals go to for news though. So go straight for the conspiracy theory sites.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 10:00:41 am by faberryman »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #811 on: November 11, 2020, 07:21:59 am »

That's where you really need to clarify your position Joe.

You have never ever explained clearly why you support Trump besides what you see as favorable economic results and him being on the Republican lists.

Perhaps we could all benefit for you casting some light on exactly how you feel about Trumpism? What aspects you think are acceptable, what aspects aren't for you.

He has lost, that won't make a difference anymore. There is no more risk that an admission of issues could have a negative impact on an election.

Contrary to what you seem to think, I am not pro Biden (I am just anti-Trump for reasons I have explained at length), but I'll list the aspects I find unclear/un-appealing about him:
- He is too old to be a President
- He is not left winged enough for my taste
- He is reliable but boring compared to an Obama for instance who had a remarkle wit

Are you interested in sharing what you like/dislike about Trump?

Cheers,
Bernard

Sure Bernard, just for you. 

Positives
economic policies
deregulation
expansion of fracking permits which gave us energy independence for the first time in my life
his staunch defense of federalism (especially during the last year when he could have expanded the federal government easily but did not), even if it was unintentional
his judiciary picks including the three new Justices on the court
His foreign policy, all of it, especially getting out of the Iran Nuclear Deal
As an outsider non-politician, him not being bound to some sort of ethics in respecting all government institutions to the point of not questioning if they continue to serve a purpose.  For example, his question about whether NATO still serves a purpose since the USSR is no more or he pulling out of the WHO after it became obvious they are a shill for China.  Another, moving the embassy in Israel, something all republican presidents promised but never did. 

Negatives
Being an ass on twitter
Not realizing that, although he is great at branding, he sucks at communications and refusing to rely on his professionals
Giving too much into the religious right
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kers

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #812 on: November 11, 2020, 07:24:46 am »

What I understand is what Trump needs to win is to find evidence of organized large scale fraud for the benefit of Biden in a couple of independant states.
An organized fraud that until now never took place in election history, and as some people has said:
They were more alert than ususal to signal fraud since Trump was already talking about upcoming fraud the last couple of months.
So it is highly improbable that large scale fraud has occurred also since there were no spontaneous indications in any state that somehing had gone wrong.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #813 on: November 11, 2020, 07:37:42 am »

Your ability to ignore your past statements and reverse course on a dime is something else. You're in a league of your own! Now you want to look at the national popular vote for comparative analysis of election results in different years?

When I made a post, in the previous political thread, that compared the national popular vote to electoral votes in 2008, 2012, and 2016; you vociferously objected to comparing or even considering the national popular vote. To quote, you said...

"You conveniently left out the most important statistic. Donald Trump 58%  Hillary Clinton 42% - electoral votes for president 2016." ... "That's deceptive. You never listed the electoral percentage totals. This is the accurate way it should have been shown: Final Election Day Result: Clinton 43% / 232 Electoral Votes — Trump 57% / 306 Electoral Votes". (Note... don't blame me for the inconsistency of the percentages from one statement to another, I'm just quoting you.)

So... to use your previous "logic", assuming the present lead in the various States remains as it is currently, Biden will net 306 electoral votes to Trump's 232. In other words, following your previously insistent "accurate way"—people voted for Trump in 2020 at 43% which is a much lower percentage than 4 years ago at 57%.

Using your previous logic and insistence that the "accurate way" to look at election results was to compare electoral vote, Trump lost 14% of his previous vote total; a very large drop.

You said it was Biden that constantly changed his positions. Perhaps it was just the way that you changed your way of looking at them.
My post had nothing to do with electoral count.   I was only pointing out that despite 5 years of attacks on Trump including impeachment, collusion,  Russia, treason, etc.  Trump increased the percent of people who voted for him. Why? Did the public ignore the media's claims? Were they crying wolf too much? Was Biden a weak candidate?

kers

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #814 on: November 11, 2020, 07:50:59 am »

My post had nothing to do with electoral count.   I was only pointing out that despite 5 years of attacks on Trump including impeachment, collusion,  Russia, treason, etc.  Trump increased the percent of people who voted for him. Why? Did the public ignore the media's claims? Were they crying wolf too much? Was Biden a weak candidate?
Biden a weak candidate -? more people than ever voted for Biden - 4 million more than trump.(74 vs 70 million votes)
So if you think Trump did well, Biden did terrific.

PS Trump does not concede but he only plays golf while covide surges at its top.- Biden already has replaced him as a working president.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 07:57:43 am by kers »
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JV

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #815 on: November 11, 2020, 07:54:22 am »

Trump increased the percent of people who voted for him. Why? Did the public ignore the media's claims? Were they crying wolf too much? Was Biden a weak candidate?

The Libertarian Party and the Green Party together took 4.35% of the votes in 2016.  That is why Trump's and also Biden's (compared to Clinton) percentage increased.

Whatever you think of Biden he did get more than 50% of the votes, a record number of votes, he will most likely flip 5 states and he is currently leading the popular vote with 4.8 million votes. 

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #816 on: November 11, 2020, 07:57:54 am »

It's a near certainty that Trump will accelerate the sowing of as much division between citizens as possible and work even harder to undermine confidence in American democracy through false assertions and encouraging distrust in the necessary institutions upon which democracy relies. Authoritarian governments around the world that want to undermine the ideals of democracy and the United States will take pleasure in that.

It will certainly be a stress test for democracy in the United States, but I agree with you. I think the country can handle the obvious and petty machinations of a sociopathic narcissist like Trump and get thru this battered but intact.
How is this worse than the Gore chad issue during the 2000 election that had to go to the Supreme Court to get resolved? We didn't know who the president elect was for around 39 days. Four years ago there were also demands for recounts but not from Trump. Also,  Hillary Clinton tried to get Trump electors to change their votes to her.  These things happen and are perfectly legal if worrisome and frustrating to the winning side.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #817 on: November 11, 2020, 08:02:38 am »

Being able to challenge election results in a court of law is what a democracy is all about. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #818 on: November 11, 2020, 08:06:59 am »

It is exactly one week after the US election and both the infections (over 133,000) and deaths (over 1,300) are steadily rising. The increase in the Covid cases correlates clearly with increased human contacts during mass gatherings around the election date (pre-election rallies, voting attendance, celebrations and protests). The spread of the virus with the added new virus carriers could get much worse this coming week.
Pretty soon we won't need a vaccine. 🤔

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #819 on: November 11, 2020, 08:15:06 am »

The plan is available to read here...  https://buildbackbetter.com/priorities/covid-19/

And reported on here...  https://www.livescience.com/biden-harris-coronavirus-plans

I haven't read any criticism of anything specific in the plan here, just generic sneering. It seems to follow both science and common sense.

There really isn't anything new regarding the general public health approach to limiting the spread of infectious disease that hasn't been known and practiced for decades; whether it's Tuberculosis, Syphilis, Ebola, or Covid-19. To be effective in limiting spread requires rapid local testing, isolation of those exposed or infected, and rapid contact tracing. It also requires effective leadership in instructing the public how to avoid becoming infected or spreading the disease to others; whether that's condoms for STDs or masks and social distancing for airborne viruses.

If you want to contain the spread of a disease locally and avoid widespread restrictions, that's been the approach. The longer testing takes; the longer the disease spreads and the more difficult contact tracing becomes. The more difficult and time consuming testing and tracing are the faster it spirals beyond any local control of isolating the infected and exposed. It's common sense and common public health practice.
Biden's economic plan will bankrupt America. It's Socialist.  He wants to redistribute the wealth of the country.
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