Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Do you even know how to read the actual data provided?

I am much better qualified than you to read it. The data you provided is NOT per-capita.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Interesting how Pfizer is clarifying that although it is a part of the Warm Speed program, it did not accept any assistance from the US government.
Kind of undermines the admin's attempt to take some credit for it.
Pence breaks silence to take credit for Pfizer vaccine - and drugs company immediately denies Trump involved

That is how spin doctors work.

Who here thinks that when a government places an order for 600 million doses it does not constitute an incentive for research and production in itself???

(Bold mine)

Pfizer later clarified that they were considered “part” of Warp Speed, because the US government had placed an order for a potential vaccine. But they received no funding for its development, unlike their rivals.

[digitaldog]

I am much better qualified than you to read it. The data you provided is NOT per-capita.

Doesn't matter. The US has done a terrible job and the deaths and infection rates make this clear to those outside the unreality bubble.
Fact: try dismissing them. USA 4% worlds population. Death rate from Covid-19, over 20% of World population. Explain why and explain how we have done such a great job here. Already provided population of China vs. US vs. Canada and their death rate. The USA had done a horrid job.
But you are ok with that? White, non college educated? 

[armand]

That is how spin doctors work.

Who here thinks that when a government places an order for 600 million doses it does not constitute an incentive for research and production in itself???

(Bold mine)

That order is valid IF they come up with the vaccine. The other companies got money to develop it. It basically just gives some provision that they would have a buyer which doesn't mean much with the current status, anybody with a working vaccine will have a buyer. That's because nobody can produce enough doses in such a short course. And 600 million doesn't compensate for the 2 billion that Pfizer said that it invested.

Also, before people go too far, this is just an early report. That 90% is unknown what it actually means, it's not independently reviewed. Does it prevent entirely, only the severe forms, does it work for immunosuppressed, and so on. As for side effects, there is no way you can entirely identify them in such a short course.

As for the virus being 99,9% benign, that's just the same idiocy that Trumplets are parroting over and over. It's missing the forest from the trees. Do some good and volunteer taking care of some of these "nonexistent" people and maybe you'll change your mind.

[digitaldog]

That 90% is unknown what it actually means, it's not independently reviewed.

That and, no one yet knows how long it remains effective. We have a long way to go here. And once it's approved, if approved and we have all the data, it's going to first responders and the most in need, meaning the vast population will have to wait awhile, and that means taking seriously, social distancing and wearing masks etc. That's the population who don't listen to the Anti-Vaxxers and will actually take it.
We have a long way to go. 

[Ray]

Doesn't matter. The US has done a terrible job and the deaths and infection rates make this clear to those outside the unreality bubble.
Fact: try dismissing them. USA 4% worlds population. Death rate from Covid-19, over 20% of World population. Explain why and explain how we have done such a great job here. Already provided population of China vs. US vs. Canada and their death rate. The USA had done a horrid job.
But you are ok with that? White, non college educated? 

When comparing Covid-19 death rates per country it's a bit ridiculous to ignore the per capita rate.

US Covid-19 death rates are very bad but certainly not the worst in the world, per capita.

According to the following site, the US is the 11th worst. Belgium has the highest per capita death rate, at 1,136.79 per million. Both Spain and the UK have a higher death rate per capita than the US. Sweden, which has received a lot of criticism for not enforcing lock-downs, has a lower per capita death rate than the US, at 585.49 compared the 720.78 for the US.

It seems Australia is still 'The Lucky Country'. We have only 35.76 Covid deaths per million. However, New Zealand is even better at only 5.08 per million. China's Covid death rate is remarkably good at only 3.39 per million.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[faberryman]

This is a good look for the Trump campaign.

Trump advisor Kimberly Guilfoyle reportedly offered to give a lap dance to the person who donated the most money at a campaign fundraiser

https://www.businessinsider.com/kimberly-guilfoyle-reportedly-offered-lap-dance-trump-campaign-fundraiser-2020-11

[faberryman]

When comparing Covid-19 death rates per country it's a bit ridiculous to ignore the per capita rate.

US Covid-19 death rates are very bad but certainly not the worst in the world, per capita.

According to the following site, the US is the 11th worst.

USA! USA! USA!

[Manoli]

VP Pence tweets: HUGE NEWS: Thanks to the public-private partnership forged by President @realDonaldTrump, @pfizer announced its Coronavirus Vaccine trial is EFFECTIVE ...

Pfizer didn’t receive any funding from Operation Warp Speed for the development, clinical trial and manufacturing of the Coronavirus Vaccine. Rather, its partner, BioNTech SE, has received money, from the German government.

BioNTech is credited for contributing the messenger RNA technology, which prompts the body to make a key protein from the virus, creating an immune response. The biotechnology company already had a history of working with Pfizer on influenza vaccines, and in March they clinched a deal to co-develop a shot to prevent against Covid-19 at research sites both in the U.S. and Germany. The two companies began human testing of the vaccine in April, before the existence of Operation Warp Speed.

Berlin gave the German company $445 million in an agreement in September to help accelerate the vaccine by building out manufacturing and development capacity in its home market.

The US precommitted to pay $1.95 billion for 100 million doses of Pfizer's vaccine once it was approved.  Pfizer are right to emphasise that they did not receive government funding, because they were exposed to all the costs and risk of vaccine development.

source: Bloomberg

[digitaldog]

According to the following site, the US is the 11th worst.

Which considering the US resources etc, pretty butt awful.
I don't recall saying the US was the worst in the world did I?
11th in the world, is Trump working to move the number higher or lower? And those who listen to him (don't wear masks, mock those that do, make it political, don't listen to experts on epidemiology and instead promise to fire them). Again, the leadership in the US, in terms of handling the virus is 'only' the 11th worst in the world, despite our resources is a good metric? No.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Belgium has the highest per capita death rate, at 1,136.79 per million....

Just waiting for our resident Belgian to blame it on Trump.

[faberryman]

Fox News has begun abandoning Trump. Anchor Neil Cavuto cut away from Kayleigh McEnany's press conference this afternoon when she began asserting claims of voter fraud without proof. You would have thought it was MSNBC or CNN.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa. I just think we have to be very clear: she's charging the other side as welcoming fraud and illegal voting, unless she has more details to back that up, I can't in good countenance continue to show you this," Cavuto said."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/kayleigh-mcenany-press-conference-today-fox-news-trump-b1720003.html

I am not planning on watching Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, and Laura Ingraham tonight, but it would be interesting to see if they are all Trump, all the time, or inching ever so carefully away from him.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Anyone who doesn't understand what a huge government order means for a company has no clue how companies operate.

[digitaldog]

And the hits keep on coming:
Trump adviser overseeing campaign legal challenges gets coronavirus.
Man, what's with this Trump guy?: COVID COVID COVID 
What comes around, goes around. Mostly these days, in the White House.

[Manoli]

That and, no one yet knows how long it remains effective. We have a long way to go here.

A very long way to go. It’s not a simple jab. It’s administered in two injections, three weeks apart and you’ll need 15 minutes recovery time after each one.  Won’t even go into the difficulties of keeping it at the impossibly low temperatures needed.

[Robert Roaldi]

This is a good look for the Trump campaign.

Trump advisor Kimberly Guilfoyle reportedly offered to give a lap dance to the person who donated the most money at a campaign fundraiser

https://www.businessinsider.com/kimberly-guilfoyle-reportedly-offered-lap-dance-trump-campaign-fundraiser-2020-11

PAAARTY!   But she could easily just have been goofing off for a laugh.

She's the girlfiend of Don Jr., the photo caption says. I can't remember, is it Don Jr. or Eric who's interested in the 2024 GOP ticket? I can't see either of them pulling off what their dad managed. Seems like a one-shot kind of thing to me.

I find family-based politics annoying. Happens in Canada a lot too. If people liked the monarchy, they should just have kept it instead of severing themselves from UK. At least their Queen still manages to exude some kind of decorum, if not dignity.

[faberryman]

She's the girlfiend of Don Jr., the photo caption says. I can't remember, is it Don Jr. or Eric who's interested in the 2024 GOP ticket? I can't see either of them pulling off what their dad managed. Seems like a one-shot kind of thing to me.

It is Don Jr. who has hinted at running for something. Apparently he has been quite the hit for Trump surrogate events, particularly out West. He is a big game "hunter" and is well known for killing an elephant chased off a game reserve by his guide in a jeep, and then cutting off its tail for a trophy. I read that somewhere. It is the kind of thing that is so unbelievable it must be true. I have seen a photo of him with a big knife in one hand and an elephant tail in the other. Not sure what you do decor-wise with an elephant's tail. And is it really hunting when you shoot an elephant with a high powered rifle with a telescopic scope? How can you miss? What's next? Grenade launchers? Mortars? Eric is the nitwit son who has been losing money hand over fist for the Trump Organization while dear old dad has been manning the White House.

[chez]

Not on a per-capita basis.

As for words, even if from the President, they matter only to snowflakes. For the rest of us, sticks and stones...

But surely the US with all it's wealth and medical knowledge should not be compared to other nations that lack such resources.

I just looked at Cornavirus update and sorted by deaths / 1M pop and the USA sits in 10th place with countries like Brazil, Peru, Spain, Chile, Bolivia having a higher rate. Is that where the USA sits as far as "status" in the world...along side Bolivia and Chile?

[chez]

Interesting how Pfizer is clarifying that although it is a part of the Warm Speed program, it did not accept any assistance from the US government.
Kind of undermines the admin's attempt to take some credit for it.
Pence breaks silence to take credit for Pfizer vaccine - and drugs company immediately denies Trump involved

Yep...and it all makes sense why Pfizer waited until after the election to release their findings...Trump no doubt would have taken all the credit for the vaccine.

[chez]

Here we go again. The old "we are not the worst" defense.

Yeh...we are in the race to the bottom with Chile and Bolivia.