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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 466234 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #180 on: November 06, 2020, 11:33:00 am »

Again you mihgt wnt to stick to color charts.
Evidence:
All humans are are stupid, but the smarter ones at least have a handle on their own innorance” John Cleese
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #181 on: November 06, 2020, 11:35:51 am »

Wait, you said he was inciting violence, now its "may" lead to violence?

When Trump incites/encourages/stirs up/whips up his supporters by continuingly claiming he was a vicitm of fraud, etc, that may lead to said supporters resorting to violence.

Cause and consequence.

If I incite someone to do a certain action, that person may do it.

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #182 on: November 06, 2020, 11:38:40 am »

In the United States, speech that creates a "clear and present danger" of illegal action may create criminal or civil liability.

Where elected officials or other public figures (e.g., political candidates) are involved, I think the news media should be extremely cautious about deciding not to report what they say—even in situations where their speech may not be constitutionally protected.
Important distinction to free speech that some outside the US probably understand better than many inside: As Linda Holmes of NPR wrote in 2010 "The First Amendment doesn't guarantee that speaking your mind will have no economic consequences. Because the free in that concept means free from government interference,not free from consequences."
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #183 on: November 06, 2020, 11:39:56 am »

Sorry, but you are wrong. People here in Canada are also upset about the lockdowns and processes put in place to fight the virus...but they understand the need because of the consistent message from all levels of leadership including the medical experts. Compare that to the US which message is all over the map with Trump making everything an election issue.

Your view that somehow Americans care more about their freedom than Canadians is a ignorant view as you don't know much about Canadians.

Well lets test your theory.  If its leadership then we could assume that most American Democrats would be taking the advice from Fauci and others who have had a mostly uninterupted and consistant message to the American people.  They are not listening to Trump.  If thats the case they why did the US experience such a huge surge in cases in the 15-25 or so age range?  They were most likely NOT listening to Trump. They simply were doing what they wanted to do.  Which was live their lives.

Perhaps Canadians are more willing to be lead around by government. Who knows.  Its is pretty clear a very large subset of Americans are not.  Call it what you will.  Not willing to give up their freedoms, differing view of the "social contract"..whatever floats your boat. 

One last question Chez. how many times do we need to rehash thhis argument?

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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #184 on: November 06, 2020, 11:41:32 am »

Interesting.

Just heard a news report on TV that the State of Georgia says it has not seen evidence yet of widespread vote fraud it had found cases of fraud and will begin the investigation. Saying lots of smaller cases do add up.

I've not been able to confirm this on the web.

I just read here in a Portuguese newspaper that in Georgia when the difference is smaller than 0.5 the candidate that loses has the right to demand a recount.

Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #185 on: November 06, 2020, 11:42:52 am »

When Trump incites/encourages/stirs up/whips up his supporters by continuingly claiming he was a vicitm of fraud, etc, that may lead to said supporters resorting to violence.

Cause and consequence.

If I incite someone to do a certain action, that person may do it.

Ah, it "may" lead.  Again where has he suggested his supporters commit violence?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #186 on: November 06, 2020, 11:44:20 am »

Evidence:
All humans are are stupid, but the smarter ones at least have a handle on their own innorance” John Cleese

Can't counter the arguments, then point out typing errors. Great work Andrew.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #187 on: November 06, 2020, 11:48:21 am »

I just read here in a Portuguese newspaper that in Georgia when the difference is smaller than 0.5 the candidate that loses has the right to demand a recount.

Georgia has just announced there will be a recount.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #188 on: November 06, 2020, 11:59:03 am »

We have done that..endlessly.  It's not about "leadership" but rather the people and their unwillingness to forsake their freedoms, at least in my opinion.

Yeah, but masks are like seat belts and motorcycle helmets, a de minimus intrusion on personal liberty. Of course we have a long history of rugged individualism and civil disobedience, so it is not a surprise that some people chafe under the yoke of the mask. My position is that if you don't want to wear a mask, and are prepared to accept the consequences, don't wear one. Just don't try to convince me you are acting rationally.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #189 on: November 06, 2020, 12:02:16 pm »

Yeah, but masks are like seat belts and motorcycle helmets, a de minimus intrusion on personal liberty. Of course we have a long history of rugged individualism and civil disobedience, so it is not a surprise that some people chafe under the yoke of the mask. My position is that if you don't want to wear a mask, and are prepared to accept the consequences, don't wear one. Just don't try to convince me you are acting rationally.

I don't disagree, and my position has been consistant from day one.  I hate wearing masks, I always wear a mask.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #190 on: November 06, 2020, 12:03:36 pm »

Georgia has just announced there will be a recount.

It is pretty close there, so I don't have a problem with that. They are also going to have to have run-offs for both Senate seats, so we won't know who has the majority in the Senate for a while.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 12:07:42 pm by faberryman »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #191 on: November 06, 2020, 12:06:12 pm »

It is pretty close there, so I don't have a problem with that. They are also going to have to have a run-off for both Senate seats, so we won't know who has the majority in the Senate for a while.

Who knows if there will be a runoff for one of them...need the recount first.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #192 on: November 06, 2020, 12:09:47 pm »

Well lets test your theory.  If its leadership then we could assume that most American Democrats would be taking the advice from Fauci and others who have had a mostly uninterupted and consistant message to the American people.  They are not listening to Trump.  If thats the case they why did the US experience such a huge surge in cases in the 15-25 or so age range?  They were most likely NOT listening to Trump. They simply were doing what they wanted to do.  Which was live their lives.

They probably weren't listening to Trump or Fauci, or their governor or mayor or parents. More than a few in the 15-25 age group think they are immortal and make errors of judgment. Thinking is an acquired skill.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 12:52:15 pm by faberryman »
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #193 on: November 06, 2020, 12:10:09 pm »

Ah, it "may" lead.  Again where has he suggested his supporters commit violence?

I am sure you can understand cause and consequence.

John Camp

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #194 on: November 06, 2020, 12:10:33 pm »

One question about talk of "freedoms" is...what freedoms are we really talking about? New Mexico has had ups and downs in business shutdowns, but things are functioning at some level and some provisions are being made for people forced out of work.The provisions would be stronger if the Republicans in the Senate would pass another support bill. (Conservatives complain about the national debt, but the national debt was at about the same percentage levels vis-a-vis the GDP after World War II, and we came back from that nicely enough.) The biggest "freedom" complaints I see from the Trump people are the arguments about whether we should wear masks. The requirement that people wear masks during a pandemic is a restriction on freedom? You can go where you want (while wearing a mask) you can fly (while wearing a mask, as long as you're not actually sick) you can say anything you want while wearing a mask, and, in Arizona, rally outside the vote-counting place while carrying your locked-and-loaded black rifle while wearing a mask. So is the big restriction on "freedom" is that you have to wear a mask during a pandemic? Give me a break.
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chez

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #195 on: November 06, 2020, 12:13:52 pm »

Well lets test your theory.  If its leadership then we could assume that most American Democrats would be taking the advice from Fauci and others who have had a mostly uninterupted and consistant message to the American people.  They are not listening to Trump.  If thats the case they why did the US experience such a huge surge in cases in the 15-25 or so age range?  They were most likely NOT listening to Trump. They simply were doing what they wanted to do.  Which was live their lives.

Perhaps Canadians are more willing to be lead around by government. Who knows.  Its is pretty clear a very large subset of Americans are not.  Call it what you will.  Not willing to give up their freedoms, differing view of the "social contract"..whatever floats your boat. 

One last question Chez. how many times do we need to rehash thhis argument?

As long as you keep implying Canadians and Europeans are just sheep that follow their leaders without doing their own thinking. Again I ask you, how much do you know about Canadians...how much time have you spent here in Canada talking with Canadians. Seems to me you are talking from ignorance.
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #196 on: November 06, 2020, 12:18:17 pm »

Yeah, but masks are like seat belts and motorcycle helmets, a de minimus intrusion on personal liberty. Of course we have a long history of rugged individualism and civil disobedience, so it is not a surprise that some people chafe under the yoke of the mask. My position is that if you don't want to wear a mask, and are prepared to accept the consequences, don't wear one. Just don't try to convince me you are acting rationally.
The issue is this; If you wear a seatbelt, you protect yourself from flying through the windshield. When you wear a mask, you are not protecting yourself, you are protecting others. It's why for over a hundred years, surgery staff wear a mask when operating (anyone in doubt ever have surgery and would be just fine without them wearing a mask?).
When I wear a mask, I protect YOU. When you wear a mask, you protect ME; major difference. Had such a fact sunk into Trump's head, he could have been a hero and instead, our country is massively sick instead. He could have used his powers of persuasion to get his people to wear masks, he did the opposite and made it political while like a few well know posters here, ignoring science. A mask should never be political. Just like it isn't political to stop at red lights; it's a really smart thing to do.
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faberryman

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #197 on: November 06, 2020, 12:19:05 pm »

Who knows if there will be a runoff for one of them...need the recount first.

Are they recounting the Senate races too?
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #198 on: November 06, 2020, 12:21:33 pm »

Can't counter the arguments, then point out typing errors. Great work Andrew.
It is great work on two counts; sloppy typing errors, sloppy errors in logic, utter lack of accepting the facts and science; between the US and China, between the US and Canada with respect to this virus. Can't counter the arguments? Pot calling kettle black (and white, and gray) all while having no idea about the kettle at all.
Rule on holes; when you're deep inside one, stop digging. I understand you can't.  :o
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #199 on: November 06, 2020, 12:23:14 pm »

I am sure you can understand cause and consequence.
The history suggests, you shouldn't be too sure of that....  ;D The reply backing that up is coming, wait for it, wait for it....
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