Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[Alan Klein]

Yeah, because that's what I meant. Stop trolling.

Trolling? You're the one who raised the slave trade when we were talking about plastics.  You're the one trolling.

[Robert Roaldi]

Trolling? You're the one who raised the slave trade when we were talking about plastics.  You're the one trolling.

Yeah ok, have it your way.

[Robert Roaldi]

Interesting new law about what teachers can teach in Oklahoma, https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/politics/oklahoma-bill-allows-teachers-to-be-sued-by-parents-for-contradicting-students-religious-beliefs/527-6a310cd4-950c-46ef-b4bd-f7a9295ec9f5.

Seems to be taking a page out of that Texas abortion law, bringing personal lawsuits into it. Why are Americans so afraid of sex? Shouldn't they welcome all ideas for discussion or is free speech only good when it conforms. Anyway, my advice to any teachers in Oklahoma is to leave the state. The Taliban would feel at home in Oklahoma. 

is this the long-term trend in public education, destroy it so that everyone has to use private schools? I wonder who thinks that's a good idea.

[LesPalenik]

Seems to be taking a page out of that Texas abortion law, bringing personal lawsuits into it. Why are Americans so afraid of sex? Shouldn't they welcome all ideas for discussion or is free speech only good when it conforms. Anyway, my advice to any teachers in Oklahoma is to leave the state. The Taliban would feel at home in Oklahoma. 

I was always wondering why the beachwear stores in America sell those 40" long men's swimming trunks. In Italy and France they don't waste so much material,, they sell them in 12" length.

[Robert Roaldi]

I was always wondering why the beachwear stores in America sell those 40" long men's swimming trunks. In Italy and France they don't waste so much material,, they sell them in 12" length.

As an off-topic aside, we wanted to watch a youtube video bio of a painter the other night, forget which one now, but youtube stopped us because of adult content. We needed to log in. This was on Apple HD TV, not my desktop, and I can't remember my password so we skipped. All we can figure is that maybe that documentary showed some nude figure paintings. It would be funny if it weren't so stupid.

[Alan Klein]

Interesting new law about what teachers can teach in Oklahoma, https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/politics/oklahoma-bill-allows-teachers-to-be-sued-by-parents-for-contradicting-students-religious-beliefs/527-6a310cd4-950c-46ef-b4bd-f7a9295ec9f5.

Seems to be taking a page out of that Texas abortion law, bringing personal lawsuits into it. Why are Americans so afraid of sex? Shouldn't they welcome all ideas for discussion or is free speech only good when it conforms. Anyway, my advice to any teachers in Oklahoma is to leave the state. The Taliban would feel at home in Oklahoma. 

is this the long-term trend in public education, destroy it so that everyone has to use private schools? I wonder who thinks that's a good idea.

In America, school control is usually local down to the school district, even the school, with county and state  input.  My school taxes are half of my property taxes goes to my township and county mainly.  I wouldn't want Oklahomans to tell us how to teach our kids so I would respect how they want to teach their kids.   

Parents want to be involved with what the school curriculum is.  Just as you want to teach your children what you believe and think is right, so do other parents with their children. Parents are responsible and have the right to do this.  We give schools en parentis loco control but within limits. 

We should have more private schools to give parents the option to bow out of public schooling.  Competition would also improve public schools, so everyone would be a winner.

[Alan Klein]

As an off-topic aside, we wanted to watch a youtube video bio of a painter the other night, forget which one now, but youtube stopped us because of adult content. We needed to log in. This was on Apple HD TV, not my desktop, and I can't remember my password so we skipped. All we can figure is that maybe that documentary showed some nude figure paintings. It would be funny if it weren't so stupid.

Why is it stupid?  Parents don't want their kids watching this stuff becomes it just becomes even more open.    You're not being stopped from watching.  So everyone gets what they want.  Sounds balanced to me. 

[digitaldog]

We should have more private schools to give parents the option to bow out of public schooling.  Competition would also improve public schools, so everyone would be a winner.

Anyone wonder where Alans parents sent him and for how long? 😝

[Robert Roaldi]

In America, school control is usually local down to the school district, even the school, with county and state  input.  My school taxes are half of my property taxes goes to my township and county mainly.  I wouldn't want Oklahomans to tell us how to teach our kids so I would respect how they want to teach their kids.   

Parents want to be involved with what the school curriculum is.  Just as you want to teach your children what you believe and think is right, so do other parents with their children. Parents are responsible and have the right to do this.  We give schools en parentis loco control but within limits. 

We should have more private schools to give parents the option to bow out of public schooling.  Competition would also improve public schools, so everyone would be a winner.

It's also a good way to keep kids from affluent families away from the riff raff who sell them their recreational drugs. Makes it easier for the cops to know who to arrest too. Win, win.

Competition in schooling? What, is it like buying cameras now? Wouldn't it lead to people choosing the cheapest schools? Is that a good thing? But I can see the advantage of making sure that the quality of schools is uneven, depending on neighbourhood. Lots of advantages to that. For someone.

Destroy what people used to get for free (other than paying taxes I mean) and turn it into a commodity that you have to pay extra for. You should be privatizing the air, all public spaces, close all public parks, make them for fee only. Are you still able to go for a walk for free? WHAT! Quick, make walking the streets illegal and make everyone pay to join a gym if they want to walk.

While we're at it, why don't we destroy the value of savings accounts and force people with no financial knowledge to play the markets? I'm sure someone will benefit.

I should be working for a think tank.


You are dismantling many of the things that made the US a good place to live. But hey, ideology rules baby.

[Alan Klein]

It's also a good way to keep kids from affluent families away from the riff raff who sell them their recreational drugs. Makes it easier for the cops to know who to arrest too. Win, win.

Competition in schooling? What, is it like buying cameras now? Wouldn't it lead to people choosing the cheapest schools? Is that a good thing? But I can see the advantage of making sure that the quality of schools is uneven, depending on neighbourhood. Lots of advantages to that. For someone.

Destroy what people used to get for free (other than paying taxes I mean) and turn it into a commodity that you have to pay extra for. You should be privatizing the air, all public spaces, close all public parks, make them for fee only. Are you still able to go for a walk for free? WHAT! Quick, make walking the streets illegal and make everyone pay to join a gym if they want to walk.

While we're at it, why don't we destroy the value of savings accounts and force people with no financial knowledge to play the markets? I'm sure someone will benefit.

I should be working for a think tank.


You are dismantling many of the things that made the US a good place to live. But hey, ideology rules baby.

Public schools in America are failing.  In NYC, charter schools have helped blacks to do better than they were doing in public schools.  (almost all kids in charter schools are in black neighborhoods.)  I visited many of them when I worked for the NYC school system for fourteen years.)  There's a waiting line to get into charter schools of something like 50,000 children, mainly non-white.  Why do you want poor kids to go to inferior regular, public schools?  Black and other non-white parents are demanding more charter schools.  They understand their kids are not doing as well in public schools and want to get them out.  The only reason there isn't more of them is because teachers' unions campaign against them because they don't want competition against the sweet deals they have now from government.  You really don't have any idea what's going on here but you have an opinion of course about something you know nothing about. 

[LesPalenik]

Public schools in America are failing.  In NYC, charter schools have helped blacks to do better than they were doing in public schools.  (almost all kids in charter schools are in black neighborhoods.)  I visited many of them when I worked for the NYC school system for fourteen years.)  There's a waiting line to get into charter schools of something like 50,000 children, mainly non-white.  Why do you want poor kids to go to inferior regular, public schools?  Black and other non-white parents are demanding more charter schools.  They understand their kids are not doing as well in public schools and want to get them out.  The only reason there isn't more of them is because teachers' unions campaign against them because they don't want competition against the sweet deals they have now from government.  You really don't have any idea what's going on here but you have an opinion of course about something you know nothing about.

The quality of schools in USA must have been deteriorating for some time now. Here is a telling youtube video clip from Jim Kimmel show where they asked teens and adults to name a country on the map.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umpalMtQE50  (you can start at 58 sec.)

[Robert Roaldi]

Public schools in America are failing.  ...

So fix them.

[digitaldog]

Public schools in America are failing. 

So fix them.

If he can't fix his photographic exposures or figure out basic resolution (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136760.msg1194660#msg1194660), unlikely he can fix the public school system. 

[Alan Klein]

So fix them.

They may be unfixable.  People have been trying for decades and they only get worse.  Charter schools, competition, has helped.  We need more of that.  Competition in higher education has made American universities among the best in the world.  We don't have competition in public schools K-12. They're failing. We need it there even more since everyone goes to grade, middle and high schools.

[PeterAit]

What is it with leaders who think because you give them a title, they can tell you what to do and how to live? 

Uuhh, isn't that sort of THE WHOLE POINT of leaders?

I can't help but note that the objections you have to certain regulations all revolve around convenience and cost. I think it's the duty of responsible citizens to sometimes put aside their own petty desires and minor financial issues for the common good. I guess that makes me a flaming liberal, no?

[digitaldog]

Uuhh, isn't that sort of THE WHOLE POINT of leaders?

If you want a reasonable answer, don't ask him!
If you want more silly rubbish, ask away but I think we both know, that's what he wants.

[digitaldog]

Well this is good news:

National Archives asks Justice Department to probe Trump's handling of White House records
The National Archives said earlier this week that Trump had to return 15 boxes of documents that were improperly taken from the White House.

[Peter McLennan]

They may be unfixable. 

How do you justify that? American Exceptionalism?  You keep telling us that America is the richest, bestest country ever, in the whole history of the world. 

Yet you can't educate your citizens or keep them healthy.

Meanwhile...

The Top 10 Most-Educated Countries (OECD 2018)
Canada — 56.27%
Japan — 50.50%
Israel — 49.90%
South Korea — 46.86%
United Kingdom — 45.96%
United States — 45.67%
Australia — 43.74%
Finland — 43.60%
Norway — 43.02%
Luxembourg — 42.86%

The OECD list compares the percentage of each country's residents ages 25 to 64 who have completed some form of tertiary education: a two-year or four-year degree or a vocational program. Based on the OECD's data, Canada is the most educated country globally, with 56.71% of adults meeting the OECD criteria. Japan has the second-highest percentage of 51.44%, followed by Israel with 50.92%. However, it's worth noting that this list compared only the 43 countries that are members or partners of the OECD, leaving out roughly 150 countries that happen to not belong to the OCED. =Also of note is the fact that these rankings change if the data are divided by age range. For example, compare the percentages for 55-64-year-olds in the tables below with the percentages for 25-34-year-olds. Comparisons such as these offer a glimpse into which countries are increasing support for education and which may be doing less.

This list is from 2018.  This was just more convenient to post.  For current data, here's the link.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-educated-countries

[digitaldog]

How do you justify that?

Worth repeating unless your goal is more rubbish and word salad:
If you want a reasonable answer, don't ask him!
If you want more silly rubbish, ask away but I think we both know, that's what he wants.

[Alan Klein]

Uuhh, isn't that sort of THE WHOLE POINT of leaders?

I can't help but note that the objections you have to certain regulations all revolve around convenience and cost. I think it's the duty of responsible citizens to sometimes put aside their own petty desires and minor financial issues for the common good. I guess that makes me a flaming liberal, no?

No.  That's not the whole point of leaders, at least in the United States. Leaders in the United States are sworn to protect our constitution which protects our rights.  They do not decide on how we are supposed to live. 

Read the Founding Fathers who developed the constitution.  It was set up to divide power to weaken a leader, the president.  Remember, the founders lived under King Geoge III.  They revolted against his singular power and gain our freedom from British rules in  1776.  They did not want a strong leader.  That's why they set it up to have a Congress that would pass laws, not the president.  It is supposed to be COngress who declares war, taxes us, writes legislation, etc.  The president as executive enforces the laws Congress passes.  They didn't want a president to become a King to command his "subjects".  They limited his power to protect us from arbitrary rule.  In addition to divided rule, the constitution gave us our freedoms of speech, the press, religion, etc., just in case Congress got too interested in power as well and wrote laws taking away our freedoms.  That's when the SUpreme COurt steps in and declares those laws unconstitutional.