Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[digitaldog]

Alan,
did you read or watch the actual story of the events prior to her killing?

Would it make any difference if he did? The overwhelming evidence here suggest it would make zero difference if he did. He has made up his 'mind' based on all his experience as a cop in this situation. 

[Alan Klein]

Alan,

did you read or watch the actual story of the events prior to her killing?

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/capitol-shooting-that-led-to-ashli-babbitt-s-death-captured-on-video-99180613572

here is a video of the mob breaking through the glass door:
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/capitol-shooting-that-led-to-ashli-babbitt-s-death-captured-on-video-99180613572

Yes I did.  I saw the video of the shooting. The black cop seemed nervous and shot through the door too prematurely. He didn't wait.  There were other cops and people on his side of the door.  The woman was on the other side and that group was trying to break it down.  But none of the rioters had guns.   

Furthermore, let's assume it was such a dangerous situation.  This shows that the Capitol Police were not prepared to defend the capital.  The commander was fired for incompetence afterward.  We should be talking about that. Congress and Nancy Pelosi should be criticized for failure to protect the Capitol properly. Sure, the rioters acted criminally.  But there was a failure to stop the rioters and no one is talking about that because the press hates Trump and Congress is run by democrats.  If Republicans ran Congress, the hearings would be flagging and investigating the Capitol Police.   That's not happening.  That woman was killed unnecessarily.  The justice department under Biden white-washed what happened and let the black cop off the hook. 

[Alan Klein]

That's the truly disturbing thing about Alan. He's not unique.  He is a stereotype.

The disturbing thing about you Peter is you never attack my opinion, you only are capable of calling me names.  I guess that's all you're capable of.

[Robert Roaldi]

So because a woman had a dispute with some people a few years earlier, does that mean she deserved to be killed for trespassing unarmed in the Capitol?  Why were;t the police able to "take her down" without shooting her?   

Did the perpetrator felon who was trying to escape from the police deserve to have been shot (by mistake) instead of tasered and the police found guilty and have to go to jail for years for an accidental killing?   It seems like we have two sets of standards.

Who ever said that US justice was blind. How many times have you been stopped by cops for no reason when you weren't doing anything wrong.

I don't understand your complaints about the second case. There was a court case, a verdict was returned. Your (or my opinion) about how it looked are irrelevant. Were you at the trlal?

As for the first case, I agree with you that what happened to that women years before has no relevance. But why was that info dug up, I can't remember? Was someone trying to paint her as a saint?

Funny but I had the same question about one of those unarmed black teenagers that was shot by a cop 2-3 years ago. Within a day or two, stories emerged about how he had been in trouble with the law before the shooting and I couldn't figure what that had to do with anything. Trouble is I can't remember which case that was right now.

Have a good weekend while you ponder these issues.

[digitaldog]

That's the truly disturbing thing about Alan.

Where to start, there are so many disturbing attributes; inability to accept data and facts, always jerking his knee, making assumptions and generalizations, not telling the truth, posting racial dog whistles, hijacking posts he has no reason to comment within, providing advise that isn't based on experience, a close mind filled with rubbish.
I've been involved in online photo forums dating back to the early 90s. The CompuServe PhotoForum where I met some truly smart and amazing people and photograhers, like Bruce Fraser, who changed my life. Or Bill Atkinson of Apple.
In all 30 years, I've never found anyone like Alan; he wins the prize as someone who never lets complete and utter ignorance of so many subjects get in his way of having a strong opinion about them.

[Alan Klein]

Who ever said that US justice was blind. How many times have you been stopped by cops for no reason when you weren't doing anything wrong.

I don't understand your complaints about the second case. There was a court case, a verdict was returned. Your (or my opinion) about how it looked are irrelevant. Were you at the trlal?

As for the first case, I agree with you that what happened to that women years before has no relevance. But why was that info dug up, I can't remember? Was someone trying to paint her as a saint?

Funny but I had the same question about one of those unarmed black teenagers that was shot by a cop 2-3 years ago. Within a day or two, stories emerged about how he had been in trouble with the law before the shooting and I couldn't figure what that had to do with anything. Trouble is I can't remember which case that was right now.

Have a good weekend while you ponder these issues.

The bottom line is two standards were applied.  That's not lost on people even if you don't read about it in the anti-Trump media.

[TechTalk]

That woman was killed unnecessarily.  The justice department under Biden white-washed what happened and let the black cop off the hook.

I'm sorry,  but if the government can't charge one person police officer at of 500 people with insurrection with an unnecessary shooting, then it is not an insurrection unnecessary killing.

The Democrats You are making it more that it was. All for political reasons...

[TechTalk]

Alan,

did you read or watch the actual story of the events prior to her killing?

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/capitol-shooting-that-led-to-ashli-babbitt-s-death-captured-on-video-99180613572

here is a video of the mob breaking through the glass door:
https://www.nbcnews.com/video/capitol-shooting-that-led-to-ashli-babbitt-s-death-captured-on-video-99180613572

Those things do not and will not matter to someone with tunnel vision and dense armor to protect their stereotypes and prejudices.

Where millions witnessed an insurrection at the nation's Capitol; Alan believes that unless someone is charged and convicted of a specific crime, there is no event. No arsonist convicted of burning down your building, then there was no arson—only a case of mysterious combustion. No looter convicted of breaking into your store during a riot, then it wasn't looted—just glass that somehow was broken and inventory that vanished. A policeman is hit in the head with a chunk of concrete, but no one convicted for throwing it, then there was no assault—it was just raining rocks that day.

[Peter McLennan]

The disturbing thing about you Peter is you never attack my opinion, you only are capable of calling me names.  I guess that's all you're capable of.

I constantly "attack your opinion", especially when I think it's demonstrably wrong.  Which happens to be quite frequently.

If you find being called a "stereotype" disturbing, then your protestations about having thick skin ring hollow.

[LesPalenik]

That woman was killed unnecessarily.  The justice department under Biden white-washed what happened and let the black cop off the hook.

I guess we were watching different movies. Babbitt was attempting to breach barricaded doors inside the Capitol Building when she was shot. My take on it was that if the cop hadn't pressed the trigger, many more people could have been killed. She was shot in her shoulder which normally shouldn't be fatal. Maybe she succumbed to her injuries because of her previous body abuses or she contracted some infection in the ensuing pêle-mêle.

[Alan Klein]

Those things do not and will not matter to someone with tunnel vision and dense armor to protect their stereotypes and prejudices.

Where millions witnessed an insurrection at the nation's Capitol; Alan believes that unless someone is charged and convicted of a specific crime, there is no event. No arsonist convicted of burning down your building, then there was no arson—only a case of mysterious combustion. No looter convicted of breaking into your store during a riot, then it wasn't looted—just glass that somehow was broken and inventory that vanished. A policeman is hit in the head with a chunk of concrete, but no one convicted for throwing it, then there was no assault—it was just raining rocks that day.

Millions also didn't see an insurrection but rather a legal demonstration followed by a riot.  Just like what happened with the BLM demonstrations. 

You've decided that 1000 people marched on Washington to overthrow the government because that's what you want to believe.  It appears that some guy dressed as a bison might be the leader of this plot.   Meanwhile, there are no charges for insurrection.  Even the Biden-led Democratic-controlled Justice Department prosecuting all these people can't find evidence that there is an insurrection.  You're calling it that because like all, democrats it's politically convenient to do so.  You're overcharging.  They at least have the sense to charge trespass, assault, damage to government property, and interfering with COngressional duties.  No one was trying to overthrow the American government, especially a guy dressed as a buffalo.

[Alan Klein]

I guess we were watching different movies. Babbitt was attempting to breach barricaded doors inside the Capitol Building when she was shot. My take on it was that if the cop hadn't pressed the trigger, many more people could have been killed. She was shot in her shoulder which normally shouldn't be fatal. Maybe she succumbed to her injuries because of her previous body abuses or she contracted some infection in the ensuing pêle-mêle.

Three cops on the woman's side stepped away from the door to let them pass.  The cops on the other side where the cop shot from also should have done the same if they couldn't stop the rioters.  Cops are supposed to use other means to stop people, not shoot through doors. 

That points to my other complaint.  The Capitol Police were not prepared.  There was no coordination between the officers on each side of the door.  No one was in charge.  Some cops in other areas just let the rioters enter the building unimpeded, even holding the entrance door open for some of them.  Yet, in this one case, one officer decided to fire his gun through a door to stop an unarmed woman.  It smells.  Certainly worthy of a public investigation, not a secret one done by a Democratic-controlled justice department. 

[Alan Klein]

This is what a real insurrection looks like. 

Kazakhstan leader gives 'kill without warning' order, as bodies lie in the streets
Kazakhstan President Kassym-Jomart Tokayev has ordered security forces to "kill without warning" to crush the violent protests that have paralyzed the former Soviet republic and reportedly left dozens dead.

In a defiant public address Friday, Tokayev claimed the unrest, which began earlier this week as protests against rising fuel prices, had been masterminded by well-trained "terrorist bandits" from both inside and outside the country.

Kazakh state media reported Friday 18 security personnel and 26 "armed criminals" had been killed in violent protests.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/07/asia/kazakhstan-kassym-jomart-tokayev-address-intl/index.html

[TechTalk]

There are people who are unable or unwilling to understand the meaning of certain words. It may be due to their limited understanding of a language or may sometimes be due to their deliberate desire to confuse an issue.

As an example, insurrection, rebellion, and revolt refer to acts of defiance against government authority. These acts are often aimed at a specific type of government authority which is being defied or challenged, such as taxation or the drafting of soldiers—perhaps the results of an election. Revolution, on the other hand, is an act or series of acts which seek to overthrow and replace an existing government with a new government.

Deliberate misuse of language is often used as a tool to make insincere arguments. For instance, if you wish to confuse an issue in order to create a smokescreen to minimize some event. For instance, you might pretend that an act of insurrection means to overthrow the government. In that example, the pretense is used to divert attention away from and minimize the actual event by claiming an entirely different meaning of a word used to describe the event.

[Robert Roaldi]

The battle over language continues elsewhere. In this clip, after Ted Cruz had called the Jan 6th thing a "terrorist attack", Tucker ripped into him, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wUx0K2AxkM. Good thing Cruz didn't use the word "insurrection" or Tucker would have popped an artery. The most amazing thing to me that Cruz apologized. Are these weenies so afraid of a FOX talking head that they knuckle under as easily as that? What a sad spectacle.

So that's where we are now. If you don't want to be cancelled by Trumpistan, you have to lock your lips onto the crazy wing of the party (to mix metaphors). It's embarrassing to watch.

Was it Tucker or Hannity who said that the "insurrection/terrorist attack/riot/patriotic demonstration" was a false flag operation, I can't remember. Did they ever "walk that back", I wonder.

I mostly watch TVO, CBC and BBC when I do watch TV news and public affairs, which isn't that often as I prefer to read about after the fact. I can't believe that people watch this sophomoric drivel.

[TechTalk]

Three cops on the woman's side stepped away from the door to let them pass.

One part of a false narrative. The police officers moved away from the door to give access to a tactical contingent of heavily armed officers with protective gear who were coming up a stairway to take their place. You can see them in the video at the top of the stairs where Babbitt fell after being shot. It's that group of officers who first attempted to render aid.

[LesPalenik]

First off I wish Trump would go away.  I'm not his sycophant. I think he helped the Republicans lose the two senate seat elections in Virginia last year.  The fact that a right winger might find Trump offensive means little.  I find him offensive too.  He's a boor, impolite, nasty, narcissist, etc.  But he did do a few things right while he was president.  Many people are blinded to that because they just hate him.  They confuse his personality with some of his policies.  There are a lot of Democrats who think Biden is a loser too but maybe for other reasons.  Biden has been a politician all his life so he knows how to play the part.  Trump is from NYC streets.  He tells it like he sees it and acts appropriately.

We both agree that Trump is not a good and honest person. Similarly, Ashli Babbitt and Marjorie Taylor Green wouldn't pass the test for Girl Guide trainers. But for some reason, while we all feel repulsion and disgust for those individuals, you seem to be attracted to such persons. Almost like the Stockholm syndrome. But in this case I would describe it as a Fatal Attraction phenomenon. I believe the only remedy for you would be to get really close to them and take the chance that they could do something vile also to you.

[TechTalk]

Why wasn't [weren't] the Capitol Police prepared to do their job?... Where was Nancy Pelosi?  Why wasn't she doing her job and hiring a commander capable of doing the job properly?  He reported to her.

Just thought that I would point out one more bit of completely fabricated bullshit. The narrative above is completely false. It's flailing around trying to shift blame for the Capitol attack on January 6th everywhere except where it belongs—Trump spewing lies and a brainwashed violent mob that believed him.

[digitaldog]

Just thought that I would point out one more bit of completely fabricated bullshit.

If you are trying to convince me and most others here, success.
If you are trying to convince the perpetrator of the fabricated bullshit, not going to happen. Ever.

I finally had to put this moronic fool on the ignore list (first time, only person) because he simply cannot STFU, my email was filled with his fabricated bullshit, it isn't worth the time to read (life, especially at my age is too short) and a reply to his fabricated bullshit would be a far greater waste of my time.

[TechTalk]

I understand and agree with your sentiment. Actually, yesterday was the first time that I've considered doing the same thing regarding the ignore list. Still mulling that over for awhile. It would make the thread reading less nauseating at times.