Canon R5 released

[hogloff]

The Canon R5 is very expensive. However, the very light, 800mm, fixed aperture, F11, is a bargain. I wish Nikon would produce such a lens for my Z50.

Some of the images I saw from the 800 were not that impressive.

[Ray]

Some of the images I saw from the 800 were not that impressive.

Could be the result of haze, or the fault of the photographer not being used to handling the R5 or an 800mm lens. Also, images that are not as sharp and detailed as one might hope, are often just OOC jpegs.

F11 on my DX 50-250, at 250mm with the Z50, results in acceptably sharp images after processing the RAW images in Adobe Bridge.

[BernardLanguillier]

The Canon R5 is very expensive. However, the very light, 800mm, fixed aperture, F11, is a bargain. I wish Nikon would produce such a lens for my Z50.

The street price of the R5 in Japan is 455,000 Yen.

For comparison purposes:
- a7rIV: 395,000 Yen
- Z7: 326,000 Yen

I do personally feel that the R5 is overpriced. It should be priced between the Sony and the Nikon, judt a but below the Sony, considering the this is where it sits still wise and the it’s video ends up being unusable for serious applications.

This camera is probably going to be discounted heavily pretty soon. It may be better to wait a few months instead of rushing to buy now.

I was seriously planning to but one to try it, but this price point has killed my interest.

Cheers,
Bernard

[scooby70]

Those that have prevented Sony from releasing a competitive zoom lens so far?

Those causing Sony from not releasing f1.2 primes?

But how about keeping this thread focused on the Canon R5?

As far as I am concerned I love a lot of things about my a9II. I am not interested in another passionate brand discussion.

Cheers,
Bernard

Oh I see. You must be able to make unsubstantiated claims and remain unchallenged?

Did you miss the part where I said I have two f1.2 lenses?

How about you look at things objectively now and again?

PS.
I'm not interested in a brand discussion. I'll leave that to immature fanboys. I don't care if my gear is made in Thailand or Japan and I don't care what name it carries. It's just gear.

I do however dislike fanboyism and spurious claims. Please stop.

[DP]

The street price of the R5 in Japan is 455,000 Yen.

For comparison purposes:
- a7rIV: 395,000 Yen
- Z7: 326,000 Yen

I do personally feel that the R5 is overpriced. It should be priced between the Sony and the Nikon, judt a but below the Sony, considering the this is where it sits still wise and the it’s video ends up being unusable for serious applications.

This camera is probably going to be discounted heavily pretty soon. It may be better to wait a few months instead of rushing to buy now.

I was seriously planning to but one to try it, but this price point has killed my interest.

Cheers,
Bernard

the camera just released  - Canon has every right and obligated to shareholders to reap some money off people who want to pay more ...

[BernardLanguillier]

Oh I see. You must be able to make unsubstantiated claims and remain unchallenged?

Did you miss the part where I said I have two f1.2 lenses?

How about you look at things objectively now and again?

PS.
I'm not interested in a brand discussion. I'll leave that to immature fanboys. I don't care if my gear is made in Thailand or Japan and I don't care what name it carries. It's just gear.

I do however dislike fanboyism and spurious claims. Please stop.

Are those f1.2 lenses Sony AF lenses meeting the GM standard?

As i said, I recommend to focus this thread on the R5.

As far as your fanboy comment goes, I am a happy Sony customer and have been praising them for the many things they have done well. Speccing the mount itself is IMHO not one of these things. You are the one with a problem accepting this objective view of things.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Ray]

The street price of the R5 in Japan is 455,000 Yen.

For comparison purposes:
- a7rIV: 395,000 Yen
- Z7: 326,000 Yen

I do personally feel that the R5 is overpriced. It should be priced between the Sony and the Nikon, judt a but below the Sony, considering the this is where it sits still wise and the it’s video ends up being unusable for serious applications.

This camera is probably going to be discounted heavily pretty soon. It may be better to wait a few months instead of rushing to buy now.

I was seriously planning to but one to try it, but this price point has killed my interest.

Cheers,
Bernard

If the price of the 5R body comes down, I'll consider buying it with the 800 F11 as a fixed-lens system. The combined weight of camera and lens is light enough to carry around on one shoulder with another system on the other shoulder. I dislike having to change lenses whilst walking around.

Even at the current price, the cost of the 5R, together with the 800mm F11, is still far less than the cost of any other, larger aperture, 800mm lens by itself.

[SrMi]

BClaff posted a day or so ago PDR tests of R5

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4508716

1) Canon gets a dual gain sensor (base ISOs: 100 and 400)

2) Canon still can't get it right (S/N) at low ISO and applies NR to gain extra ~2/3 EV of DR @ low ISOs (until ISO 800) for marketing purposes 

And electronic shutter is only 12-bit :

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20R5,Canon%20EOS%20R5(ES)

[BernardLanguillier]

If the price of the 5R body comes down, I'll consider buying it with the 800 F11 as a fixed-lens system. The combined weight of camera and lens is light enough to carry around on one shoulder with another system on the other shoulder. I dislike having to change lenses whilst walking around.

Even at the current price, the cost of the 5R, together with the 800mm F11, is still far less than the cost of any other, larger aperture, 800mm lens by itself.

This is indeed a pretty interesting combo.

Cheers,
Bernard

[hogloff]

If the price of the 5R body comes down, I'll consider buying it with the 800 F11 as a fixed-lens system. The combined weight of camera and lens is light enough to carry around on one shoulder with another system on the other shoulder. I dislike having to change lenses whilst walking around.

Even at the current price, the cost of the 5R, together with the 800mm F11, is still far less than the cost of any other, larger aperture, 800mm lens by itself.

I saw some samples from the 800 that were not that great. Before diving into the system, maybe rent it to ensure it meets your needs. Remember also you'll most likely be shooting at higher ISO to compensate for f11.

[Ray]

I saw some samples from the 800 that were not that great. Before diving into the system, maybe rent it to ensure it meets your needs. Remember also you'll most likely be shooting at higher ISO to compensate for f11.

Are you referring to the Osprey birds-in-flight shots at Dpreview?
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4508663

The ospreys don't look at all sharp to me, after clicking on 'the original' images and enlarging. However, the images seem very compressed, or heavily cropped, have very few megapixels, and are also probably OOC jpegs.

Later in the thread, the same photographer shows some comparisons between a 500mm F5.6, used at F6.3 on a Nikon D850, and the 800mm F11 on the 5R. (I think they're herons swallowing a fish). The images from both cameras look much better, but the 800mm F11 shots look better and sharper than the 500mm F5.6 shots.

What's also interesting about the 'Photographic Dynamic Range' charts from BClaff, is that the Canon 5R seems to have 0.87 EV better PDR at ISO 400 than the Nikon Z7. At no point on the ISO scale is the PDR of the Nikon Z7 better than the Canon 5R. I wonder what the DXOMark charts will show.

I imagine that ISO 400 would be a frequently used ISO with an 800mm F11 lens. In bright light, perhaps sufficient for most moving subjects, and certainly for slow moving subjects.

[BernardLanguillier]

the camera just released  - Canon has every right and obligated to shareholders to reap some money off people who want to pay more ...

Certainly. And you are right that there are quite a few Canon photographers that will jump on their first competitive camera in more than 10 years whatever the price.

But there must be an optimum release price that maximizes sales while flattering the ego of Canon’s imaging division top mgt right?

I cannot help but feel that the current price is a bit biased towards the second one of these goals. I could be wrong of course.

Because I assume that Canon must have the ambition to win over Nikon and Sony users (including the many former Canon users who have switched), which forces them to take into account the competitive landscape. Odds are the some Z7 owners or Nikon DSLR users could be tempted (or could have been tempted had the price been right) by the R5 but won’t be anymore the minute a Z7s is announced in a few months by the time the price goes down.

Or is this price point an admission that Canon has given up on converting users and is happy to play towards their remaining emotionally captive DSLR user base alone? That may be it.

Cheers,
Bernard

[DP]

But there must be an optimum release price that maximizes sales while flattering the ego of Canon’s imaging division top mgt right?

nothing prevents Canon from gradually getting it lower (through some forms of rebates or bundles, etc) once those itching to pay the full price paid it ... it is not like some GROSS miscalculations (not Canon's) a-la Fuji's X-H1... released @ $1900 it was selling for close to $1000 a year later 
 

[BernardLanguillier]

nothing prevents Canon from gradually getting it lower (through some forms of rebates or bundles, etc) once those itching to pay the full price paid it ... it is not like some GROSS miscalculations (not Canon's) a-la Fuji's X-H1... released @ $1900 it was selling for close to $1000 a year later 

Indeed. But I would personally not pay more than 380,000 Yen for an R5 now and probably even less in 3 months.

Anyway, I wish Canon well. The R5 raises the bar and the market is a lot healthier with solid cameras from Canon to maintain pressure on Sony and Nikon.

Cheers,
Bernard

[KLaban]

I paid through the nose for my first Nikon Z7 and considerably less for my second.

So what's new?

[kers]

...The lenses I would call amazing are the Zeiss Otus 100mm f1.4, Nikon S 58mm f0.95, Nikon S 85mm f1.8, Canon R 85mm f1.2....

40mm 1.4 Sigma ART...

[BernardLanguillier]

I paid through the nose for my first Nikon Z7 and considerably less for my second.

So what's new?

In Japan 100,000 Yen extra.

Cheers,
Bernard

[KLaban]

The first Z7 I bought was around £3,100. I saw the same model advertised recently by the same dealer at around £2,300.

Time usually sees large discounts.

[BernardLanguillier]

The first Z7 I bought was around £3,100. I saw the same model advertised recently by the same dealer at around £2,300.

Time usually sees large discounts.

Certainly but my point is that the price of introduction is much higher.

Cheers,
Bernard

[KLaban]

Certainly but my point is that the price of introduction is much higher.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, understood.

My point was the higher the initial price the higher the possible and likely future reductions.