Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: shadowblade on July 09, 2020, 01:04:03 pm

Title: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 09, 2020, 01:04:03 pm
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547009-REG/canon_eos_r5_mirrorless_digital.html/overview (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1547009-REG/canon_eos_r5_mirrorless_digital.html/overview)

Very promising specs.

But it doesn't answer two big questions - AF performance and image quality.

To put it another way, is this an A9r or an A7r4? It has lots of AF points and human/animal eye/face tracking on paper, but how does it perform in the real world? Unmatched like the A9, or functional like the A7r4 (or D850)? Hoping for the former, but, until reviews are released, I'd probably guess somewhere in between.

And what will it be like image quality wise? I have no doubt it will perform well at ISO 800 and up, for action photography - here, most modern cameras are pretty similar. But will it display a flattening of the DR-to-ISO curve at lower ISOs (like many non-Exmor sensors) or will it be largely ISO invariant (like the Exmors and Canon's 5D4 and 1Dx3 sensors)?

I'd like to see Sony's response, too. I suspect the A7s3 may be an incomplete response, being more pro video focused and with its design far too solid by the time the R5 was in the works. The A9II is really more an A9 Mk 1.5, with only slight improvements over the original A9 outside of connectivity, designed for an Olympics which didn't end up happening. If the R5's AF system is up there with the A9, it may just force Sony to release an A9r, or to improve either the resolution of the A9III or the AF of the A7r6 so that they become an A9r in all but name.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: gkroeger on July 09, 2020, 02:11:08 pm
I am interested to see what low ISO dynamic range is like.  I am also curious about how strong the low-pass AA filter is, and whether it includes focus bracketing (the RP had it but not the R). The "full specs" from Canon don't mention focus bracketing.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: SrMi on July 09, 2020, 07:31:21 pm
The sensor readout speed is not in the same category as A9. I read reports that R5 focuses slightly better than a7rIII. Also, t does not have OSPDAF and related issues.
I am looking forward to real-world tests. To me, the most interesting are the available lenses.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on July 10, 2020, 04:42:41 am
On the video side it has 8K, but with 8K one needs at least 60fps to make movement fluent...
Like to see the 8stop Vr...and dynamic range etc...
At least they have a better body now for the good lenses they have produced.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on July 10, 2020, 05:31:31 am
This is not (yet) a mirrrorless 1DX series camera, more like a 5D.

Seems like Canon are coming back with a vengeance - interesting lenses too.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 10, 2020, 07:23:56 am
The sensor readout speed is not in the same category as A9. I read reports that R5 focuses slightly better than a7rIII. Also, t does not have OSPDAF and related issues.
I am looking forward to real-world tests. To me, the most interesting are the available lenses.

Indeed, all my event/portrait shooting friends are a9 or a9II due to silent shooting that’s made possible by the 1/160s read out perfo vs 1/60s on the R5. It’s the difference usable on moving subjects and pretty much useless.

None of them seem interested by the R5.

I personally am interested, it’s probably the best camera on the market for my needs, but I don’t think I’ll add Canon on top of Nikon and Sony. Although the lenses are more appealing to me than FE lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 10, 2020, 07:43:30 am
This is not (yet) a mirrrorless 1DX series camera, more like a 5D.

Seems like Canon are coming back with a vengeance - interesting lenses too.

So, more like a A7r4 with lower resolution and higher frame rate, then.

I guess it's kind of reflected in the naming. R6 = 6D, R5 = 5D. I'll be on the lookout for an R1...

Still, it's a step in the right direction. Sony needs competition in the mirrorless space to push them harder, and, without an AF system to match the A9, it almost doesn't matter what the other specs are..

I like the way Sony has been going with its recent GM lenses. The 12-24/2.8 looks pretty spectacular. The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 are due for Mk II versions, being two of the first three GM lenses released (the 85/1.4 is not typically used for subjects where sharpness is the main criterion), and judging by recent GM lenses, I'd expect them to be super-sharp (my current 24-70 is very sharp, but I had to go through four copies to get it). Certainly wouldn't mind if they all cost as much as the new 12-24 if they're all prime-sharp, with no compromises made to reduce cost - a set of them would make an ideal general photography setup. I wish they'd do the same with their f/4 zooms, though, releasing an uncompromised GM lineup of f/4 zooms.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: jrsforums on July 10, 2020, 11:12:14 am
On the video side it has 8K, but with 8K one needs at least 60fps to make movement fluent...
Like to see the 8stop Vr...and dynamic range etc...
At least they have a better body now for the good lenses they have produced.

More 8k problems...
https://www.eoshd.com/news/canon-eos-r5-has-serious-overheating-issues-in-both-4k-and-8k/
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: gkroeger on July 10, 2020, 11:24:29 am
The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 are due for Mk II versions, being two of the first three GM lenses released (the 85/1.4 is not typically used for subjects where sharpness is the main criterion), and judging by recent GM lenses, I'd expect them to be super-sharp (my current 24-70 is very sharp, but I had to go through four copies to get it). Certainly wouldn't mind if they all cost as much as the new 12-24 if they're all prime-sharp, with no compromises made to reduce cost - a set of them would make an ideal general photography setup. I wish they'd do the same with their f/4 zooms, though, releasing an uncompromised GM lineup of f/4 zooms.
+1
Sony really needs to revisit all of their early zooms!
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on July 10, 2020, 11:34:27 am
So, more like a A7r4 with lower resolution and higher frame rate, then.

I guess it's kind of reflected in the naming. R6 = 6D, R5 = 5D. I'll be on the lookout for an R1...

Still, it's a step in the right direction. Sony needs competition in the mirrorless space to push them harder, and, without an AF system to match the A9, it almost doesn't matter what the other specs are..

I like the way Sony has been going with its recent GM lenses. The 12-24/2.8 looks pretty spectacular. The 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 are due for Mk II versions, being two of the first three GM lenses released (the 85/1.4 is not typically used for subjects where sharpness is the main criterion), and judging by recent GM lenses, I'd expect them to be super-sharp (my current 24-70 is very sharp, but I had to go through four copies to get it). Certainly wouldn't mind if they all cost as much as the new 12-24 if they're all prime-sharp, with no compromises made to reduce cost - a set of them would make an ideal general photography setup. I wish they'd do the same with their f/4 zooms, though, releasing an uncompromised GM lineup of f/4 zooms.

I think there will be some time before a "R1" shows up. The "action" pro market is dominated by Canon 1D and Nikon D5 plus the big fast teles. They will not change until they are convinced.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 10, 2020, 04:43:58 pm
+1
Sony really needs to revisit all of their early zooms!

On the other hand
- they are not that old
- Sony tried very hard to make them the best such lenses on the market to convince DSLR shooters to change over
- Sony had plenty of experience designing such lenses
- they were clearly priced as if they were the best

So until they release a competitive high end zoom we don’t know if the constraints of the mount enable them to be at the same level as Canon/Nikon.

They are some great primes for FE mount though and my many Sony friends have all become prime shooters. :)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: hogloff on July 10, 2020, 05:25:04 pm
I think there will be some time before a "R1" shows up. The "action" pro market is dominated by Canon 1D and Nikon D5 plus the big fast teles. They will not change until they are convinced.

But the A9 is used in all sorts of photography situations from sports and bird photography to weddings and into places where a silent shutter is required such as theatres. I think you are a bit narrow focused if you think these high end cameras are only for action sports.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 10, 2020, 05:27:56 pm
On the other hand
- they are not that old
- Sony tried very hard to make them the best such lenses on the market to convince DSLR shooters to change over
- Sony had plenty of experience designing such lenses
- they were clearly priced as if they were the best

So until they release a competitive high end zoom we don’t know if the constraints of the mount enable them to be at the same level as Canon/Nikon.

They are some great primes for FE mount though and my many Sony friends have all become prime shooters. :)

Cheers,
Bernard

Given the pace of mirrorless development since 2013, they're pretty old. Also, they were designed with a different intent to current design. Originally, the GM series was designed with bokeh rendering in mind, not necessarily ultimate resolution. And the 24-70 GM and 70-200 GM definitely have among the smoothest out-of-focus rendering out of lenses in their class, so they certainly fulfilled their design intent at the time. But the design intent of GM lenses has changed over the years.

Compare and contrast the 100-400 GM. Unlike the original batch of GM lenses, resolution was a design intent in this lens. Matches the Canon in centre sharpness and beats it in the corners. Also handily beats the 70-200 GM at the same aperture/focal length. Both the Sony and Canon beat anything Nikon has in that class.

And, looking at the new 12-24/2.8 GM, they've now done the same thing here - still waiting on formal tests, but it seems to beat anything else in that class (Canon 11-24L, Nikon 14-24, Sigma 12-24 and 14-24).

The mount is obviously not a constraining factor - not unless you want to get in to f/0.8 lenses or something. After all, the Sigma 105/1.4 works perfectly well (optically) on E-mount, as does the designed-for-E-mount Sigma 35/1.2.

You can't judge a system by its first few products - only its mature offerings. The Canon R is crap. They've now refined it with a second generation. The A7r was useless for anything other than landscapes or still studio setups. The A7r2 improved on this, and, from the A9 and A7r3 onwards, the system has really matured. Same goes with the lenses. Look at what Sigma used to produce before the Art and Sport lines came out.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 10, 2020, 05:31:09 pm
But the A9 is used in all sorts of photography situations from sports and bird photography to weddings and into places where a silent shutter is required such as theatres. I think you are a bit narrow focused if you think these high end cameras are only for action sports.

Also, there is a small, but increasing number of A9 bodies seen on the sidelines of arenas.

Part of this is due to the longevity of bodies and supertele lenses. If you already have an arsenal of relatively-new Canon superteles, it makes no sense to change them over to Sonys until they've served their time. without a compelling reason to do so. Particularly since Sony's supertele lineup isn't exactly comprehensive yet. But the dynamic will change as mirrorless takes over - Sony's supertele lineup is lean compared with Canon/Nikon SLR offerings, but they are way ahead of what Canon/Nikon offers in their mirrorless lineups.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: jwlimages on July 13, 2020, 11:03:06 pm
So, back to the original topic, Canon's R5...

No GPS at all? What's the deal here, was GPS just a gimmick to be added temporarily, and now it's irrelevant? I found it quite useful on my 5D MK IV, and am disappointed to see it get dropped.

John
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 16, 2020, 12:09:37 am
So, back to the original topic, Canon's R5...

No GPS at all? What's the deal here, was GPS just a gimmick to be added temporarily, and now it's irrelevant? I found it quite useful on my 5D MK IV, and am disappointed to see it get dropped.

John

Can you add on a module for that?

Never used GPS on a camera - I tend to just chart locations on maps - so no idea how useful it might be or what to use it for.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on July 16, 2020, 06:34:35 am
But the A9 is used in all sorts of photography situations from sports and bird photography to weddings and into places where a silent shutter is required such as theatres. I think you are a bit narrow focused if you think these high end cameras are only for action sports.

No doubt Sony have made headways into the pro market. But even in press conferences the clacking of DSLRs is still predominant:)

It is a market with big inertia and where familiarity with gear is paramount. It takes a lot of convicing arguments to make a change.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: hogloff on July 16, 2020, 09:46:18 am
No doubt Sony have made headways into the pro market. But even in press conferences the clacking of DSLRs is still predominant:)

It is a market with big inertia and where familiarity with gear is paramount. It takes a lot of convicing arguments to make a change.

Also in a declining market like the pro photography market, it just does not make financial sense to spend a lot of money switching systems from something that still works. I know a few wedding photographers and they are still using the same gear they did 5 years ago.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on July 16, 2020, 10:20:23 am
Also in a declining market like the pro photography market, it just does not make financial sense to spend a lot of money switching systems from something that still works. I know a few wedding photographers and they are still using the same gear they did 5 years ago.

+1 and in effect nothing much changes;
Silent shooting is now part of the new DSLR's. Lenses are very good / good enough; only a few make it to be printed large...almost all end up on screen.
I wonder what is the refreshing speed of a D6, but know i can make make silent photos with my d850 in many circumstances...
To change your workflow, spend a lot of money to end up with a camera with new quircks and only few benefits is not very sensible.
Alle depends on your type of photography...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: scooby70 on July 25, 2020, 05:57:34 am
On the other hand
- they are not that old
- Sony tried very hard to make them the best such lenses on the market to convince DSLR shooters to change over
- Sony had plenty of experience designing such lenses
- they were clearly priced as if they were the best

So until they release a competitive high end zoom we don’t know if the constraints of the mount enable them to be at the same level as Canon/Nikon.

They are some great primes for FE mount though and my many Sony friends have all become prime shooters. :)

Cheers,
Bernard

What are the constraints of the mount?

As far as I know the only accepted limitation is that the Sony mount is limited to something like f0.6 which isn't going to happen on any of these systems anyway. (I have two f1.2 lenses which is the widest aperture I'm going to want and they both work fine on my Sony A7.) There may also be a limitation on the amount of sensor movement for IS purposes but other than these two things (and IMO the maximum aperture limitation is completely irrelevant) what are the suspected constraints of the Sony mount?
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 25, 2020, 09:12:21 am
What are the constraints of the mount?

As far as I know the only accepted limitation is that the Sony mount is limited to something like f0.6 which isn't going to happen on any of these systems anyway. (I have two f1.2 lenses which is the widest aperture I'm going to want and they both work fine on my Sony A7.) There may also be a limitation on the amount of sensor movement for IS purposes but other than these two things (and IMO the maximum aperture limitation is completely irrelevant) what are the suspected constraints of the Sony mount?

Those that have prevented Sony from releasing a competitive zoom lens so far?

Those causing Sony from not releasing f1.2 primes?

But how about keeping this thread focused on the Canon R5?

As far as I am concerned I love a lot of things about my a9II. I am not interested in another passionate brand discussion.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 25, 2020, 01:29:50 pm
Those that have prevented Sony from releasing a competitive zoom lens so far?

These are all manufacturer constraints, not mount constraints. Regardless:

100-400 - best in class at the moment (better than Canon's in the corners, although it's a newer lens and hard to compare, while Nikon's 80-400 is way behind). I hope Canon has beaten this lens with their newest 100-500, though - it depends if the 100-500 can make f/5.6 at 400mm (with 500/7.1 being a bonus), as well as how sharp it is. There's a rumoured Canon 100-400 coming up later, but it doesn't appear to be an L lens.

200-600 - again, no-one else has anything competitive within the same class. They're either budget options with limited performance, or super-expensive. Sigma's 150-600 Sport is probably the closest comparison. The 200-600 actually holds up very well even to the Canon 200-400, except it's a stop and a third slower - weaker in the corners, but the centre holds up well, and the corners of almost any shot taken with this kind of lens will be out of focus anyway.

12-24/2.8 - just announced, samples out, seems to kick the crap out of every other <16mm UWA (zoom or prime) out there, from the limited samples available so far.

12-24/4 - matches the Canon 11-24 at half the weight and 60% of the price. Beats the other 12-24 options out there. The Sigma 14-24/2.8 DG DN is great, but doesn't reach 12mm. Nikon's 14-24 design is getting really old and is overdue for replacement.

It's just the 70-200 (second GM zoom released) , as well as the 24-70 (first GM lens ever released) that give them a bad name. To be fair, those early GM lenses (including the 85/1.4) were designed with smooth bokeh as the selling point, not sharpness - when the emphasis was changed to resolution, the lens lineup improved in a big way. And the terrible copy-to-copy variation that can lead to one lens seeming prime-sharp and the next looking like something out of 2005 - my 24-70 is very sharp, but took 4 bad copies to get to.

Quote
Those causing Sony from not releasing f1.2 primes?

Completely a manufacturer decision, not a mount limitation.

Sigma and other f/1.2 lenses adapt and work perfectly, with no more vignetting or edge clipping than on their native mounts. Even f/0.95 primes do. The designed-for-E-mount Sigma 35/1.2 is also one of the best 35mm lenses out there.

That Sony has restricted themselves to f/1.4 so far (rumoured to be changing later this year) is entirely a design and manufacturer capability decision, not one dictated by the mount.

The mount size 'constraint' theory has been pushed by Nikon ever since the size of the Z mount was announced. Oddly, it didn't seem to be a problem when F-mount SLRs were top-tier.

Any lens fast enough that it would be possible on a Z mount and not possible on E mount would be so big it would be impractical anyway.

In any case, I'm still waiting for a performance review on the R5. In terms of positioning, it seems to be a mirrorless 5D - an amalgamation of the 5D and 5Ds lines. But, capability-wise, is it an A7r3, A7r4 or A9r?
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 25, 2020, 05:46:23 pm
The mount size 'constraint' theory has been pushed by Nikon ever since the size of the Z mount was announced. Oddly, it didn't seem to be a problem when F-mount SLRs were top-tier.

Not factual.

There were many comments from Nikon stakeholders throughout the years blaming the size of the mount for their inability to release AF lenses faster than f1.4.

Such constraints do exist and they impact how easy it is to design lenses. Yes, it’s possible to design around constraints but there is always a cost. Be it financial, size, some image quality characteristics,...

I have integrated this fact in my assessment of what I can expect from Sony and I use the system with that in my mind.

When comparing Z lenses to FE ones the quality of Z glass is overall quite clearly superior. Yes there are exceptions such as the 20mm f1.8 where it’s a draw optically with the Sony being more compact so the Sony is overall the better lens. This shows that it’s of course possible not to come up with a great design on the Z mount also for lenses that are not near the edge of the design envelope of the mount.

You are right that there are some very good zooms for FE mount, my statement should have been more balanced but I didn’t have time to write more. I had in mind the 24-70mm f2.8 and 70-200mm f2.8 mostly.

You have demonstrated time and again your inability to cast an objective look at Sony. Everything they do is great, there is nothing better.

I don’t care, you are the one closing doors for yourself by ruling out the possibility that there may be better options in whole or in part.

My objective assessment as a user of both Sony and Nikon is that Sony is clearly ahead today only with the a9II thanks to its better eye AF and faster read out sensor. For the rest Nikon and Canon are IMHO at the same level or better, in particular regarding lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: hogloff on July 25, 2020, 06:52:48 pm
Those that have prevented Sony from releasing a competitive zoom lens so far?

Those causing Sony from not releasing f1.2 primes?

But how about keeping this thread focused on the Canon R5?

As far as I am concerned I love a lot of things about my a9II. I am not interested in another passionate brand discussion.

Cheers,
Bernard

Zooms: the Sony 12-24 f2.8 is class leading.

1.2 primes: The Sigma 35 1.2 is an amazing lens.

Don't understand why you would think the Sony mount limits developing class leading lenses.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 25, 2020, 10:50:19 pm
You have demonstrated time and again your inability to cast an objective look at Sony. Everything they do is great, there is nothing better.

I don’t care, you are the one closing doors for yourself by ruling out the possibility that there may be better options in whole or in part.

My objective assessment as a user of both Sony and Nikon is that Sony is clearly ahead today only with the a9II thanks to its better eye AF and faster read out sensor. For the rest Nikon and Canon are IMHO at the same level or better, in particular regarding lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard

Oddly enough, I prefer the Canon setup. Been shooting Canon for 20 years. But there's nothing to comment on when a company doesn't innovate and continues to bring out slightly-improved versions of the same thing year-on-year.

It was only their stagnation sensor-wise, and, later, their delay (relative to Sony/Olympus/Fuji/Panasonic) in getting into mirrorless that caused me to move to Sony. Even in 2013, you could see that the writing was on the wall for SLR and that the future would be mirrorless - it made more sense to invest in a system which was better for non-action photography there and then, with lenses in a mount that would still have value ten years down the track if I wanted to switch systems again, rather than continuing to invest in a system whose sensors weren't going anywhere and whose EF-mount lenses would likely have little resale value ten years down the line when technological changes forced you to switch systems anyway (whether to a future Canon mirrorless system or to Sony/Nikon). Now their sensors are catching up, and they're making a big push into mirrorless, so they're starting to look interesting again. And, whether Canon or Sony are in front at any particular stage, the very fact that it's turning into a two-horse race is good in the sense that it forces Sony to continue to innovate (we need an A9r) rather than resting on its laurels, like what Canon did after the 5D2 and 7D.

Buying into E-mount at the time gives me the freedom to either stay with Sony or switch to Canon with minimal loss on lenses if, in a few years, it turns out to be a better system - something you can't do if you were invested in EF-mount or F-mount, whose lenses are facing obsolescence in the mirrorless age and will have limited resale value, a bit like FD-mount lenses now.

Out of the big three, it's really Nikon that's fallen behind. Not because their SLRs aren't competitive, but because they've made no meaningful inroads into mirrorless, nor demonstrated the capacity to do so on anything other than an entry-level basis (and the Z7 is really an entry-level model with a high-end sensor, like a 2018 version of the 5D2 or original A7r).
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 26, 2020, 01:27:23 am
The corner of a full-frame sensor is 21.63mm from the centre.

EF mount
Throat diameter: 54mm (edge 27mm from centre)
Flange distance: 44mm
Angle from edge of throat to corner of sensor: 6.96 degrees

F mount
Throat diameter: 44mm (edge 22mm from centre)
Flange distance: 46.5mm
Angle from edge of throat to corner of sensor: 0.46 degrees

E mount
Throat diameter: 46.1mm (edge 23.05mm from centre)
Flange distance: 18mm
Angle from edge of throat to corner of sensor: 4.51 degrees

Leica M mount
Throat diameter: 44mm (edge 22mm from centre)
Flange distance: 27.8mm
Angle from edge of throat to corner of sensor: 0.763 degrees

Pentax K mount
Throat diameter: 44mm (edge 22mm from centre)
Flange distance: 45.46mm
Angle from edge of throat to corner of sensor: 0.47 degrees

So, the E mount is the second most 'permissive' mount here (after the EF mount), barring the new RF and Z mounts. And Leica doesn't seem to have any issue putting Noctiluxes on its M mount, nor Sigma f/1.2 lenses onto E mount. Even Nikon put a 50/1.2 lens onto F-mount, which is the most restrictive mount on that list.

Could a wider throat diameter make design of more 'extreme' fast lenses simpler? Possibly. On the other hand, it would just make 'normal' lenses bigger and heavier. And both problems can be alleviated through technologies such as diffractive optics, to either lighten components or to squeeze more light through a smaller hole.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 26, 2020, 03:41:00 am
Zooms: the Sony 12-24 f2.8 is class leading.

1.2 primes: The Sigma 35 1.2 is an amazing lens.

I happen to own that lens that I use on my a9II. It’s a very good lens, I would personally not call it amazing. Not even close.

The lenses I would call amazing are the Zeiss Otus 100mm f1.4, Nikon S 58mm f0.95, Nikon S 85mm f1.8, Canon R 85mm f1.2. I hesitate to include in the list the Sony 135mm f1.8. And in the end I keep leaving it out. All lenses I have first hand experience with (very limited with the Canon).

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 26, 2020, 03:48:08 am
. (and the Z7 is really an entry-level model with a high-end sensor, like a 2018 version of the 5D2 or original A7r).

You tried hard but couldn’t write a full post without falling in Nikon trash talking, could you? :)

For still photography, the Z7 is very close to the 2 years younger R5 and a7rIV.

I have made my choice against the Sony, I clearly prefer the Z7.

I have not shot the Canon and it does look very good on paper. I really doubt it would make a meaningful difference in real world photography but it may.

I think that it would be more fair to compare it to the upcoming Z7s though. Overall, the only thing Nikon is missing is a 85mm f1.2, but then again the S 85mm f1.8 is out of this world brilliant. I am not sure I would use the f1.2 much nor that it’s possible to design one as good as the f1.8.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 26, 2020, 06:00:06 am
You tried hard but couldn’t write a full post without falling in Nikon trash talking, could you? :)

For still photography, the Z7 is very close to the 2 years younger R5 and a7rIV.

Sensor-wise, certainly. But not in terms of other functionality.

Single card slot. AF not up to the A7r4. I can track wildlife with some confidence using the A7r4. I wouldn't do it with the Z7.

It remains to be seen what the R5's AF is like. This will be a much bigger distinguishing factor than what the sensor output is like. Hoping for something more like an A9r than an A7r3/A7r4 - Sony needs some competition to force them to release their own A9r.

Quote
I have not shot the Canon and it does look very good on paper. I really doubt it would make a meaningful difference in real world photography but it may.

I think that it would be more fair to compare it to the upcoming Z7s though. Overall, the only thing Nikon is missing is a 85mm f1.2, but then again the S 85mm f1.8 is out of this world brilliant. I am not sure I would use the f1.2 much nor that it’s possible to design one as good as the f1.8.

Cheers,
Bernard

If you're shooting full-length portraits, you'd certainly appreciate an 85/1.2 over the 85/1.8. Sharpness isn't the most critical thing for every genre of photography - portraits are one such genre. 85/1.2 gets you subject isolation you just can't get at 85/1.8.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on July 26, 2020, 06:35:37 am
I happen to own that lens that I use on my a9II. It’s a very good lens, I would personally not call it amazing. Not even close.

The lenses I would call amazing are the Zeiss Otus 100mm f1.4, Nikon S 58mm f0.95, Nikon S 85mm f1.8, Canon R 85mm f1.2. I hesitate to include in the list the Sony 135mm f1.8. And in the end I keep leaving it out. All lenses I have first hand experience with (very limited with the Canon).

Cheers,
Bernard

I'd include the Sony 135/1.8 and also add the Nikon 70-200/2.8 E, Canon 200/2, Sigma 105/1.4, Voigtlander 65/2 Macro, Voigtlander 110/2.5 Macro. Sigma's 35/1.2 and 35/1.4 would be up there, too. And those are just the ones from memory.

Too early to say, but the Sony 12-24/2.8 may fall into that category as well, if it turns out to be sharper than every other prime or zoom wider than 16mm, as early reviews suggest.

Wildlife/sports-focused superteles, also, are almost universally good, but really belong in their own category.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: hogloff on July 26, 2020, 04:35:47 pm
I happen to own that lens that I use on my a9II. It’s a very good lens, I would personally not call it amazing. Not even close.

The lenses I would call amazing are the Zeiss Otus 100mm f1.4, Nikon S 58mm f0.95, Nikon S 85mm f1.8, Canon R 85mm f1.2. I hesitate to include in the list the Sony 135mm f1.8. And in the end I keep leaving it out. All lenses I have first hand experience with (very limited with the Canon).

Cheers,
Bernard

Tell me what ultra wide 2.8 zoom is better. If none...then it's class leading period.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: KLaban on July 27, 2020, 08:05:44 am
Here we go, here we go, here we go...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on July 27, 2020, 05:31:03 pm
Tell me what ultra wide 2.8 zoom is better. If none...then it's class leading period.
probably a stitch - so you can be class leading and zooming without buying a 'classleading' Lens.
It also frees you from a fixed rectangular space.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: hogloff on July 27, 2020, 10:43:56 pm
probably a stitch - so you can be class leading and zooming without buying a 'classleading' Lens.
It also frees you from a fixed rectangular space.

Stitch works when everything is stable...unfortunately the world moves about you in many situations.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: phila on July 31, 2020, 01:59:38 am
Picked up this afternoon!  ;D  RF85f2 not yet in stock. I also had a brief play with the new RF600 & 800 lenses. They are certainly light & compact for the focal length (the 600 is about the same size as an EF70-200f2.8 when collapsed, but lighter), and at about 10% of the cost of the EF 600 & 800 could be a very interesting choice (one assumes the fast RF equivalents will be similarly priced if/when available) - depending on image quality of course. And your requirements.

If anyone is interested the Rogeti L bracket for the 5DSr fits well on the R5 fitted with the BG-R10 grip. At least well enough to be very usable until proper R5 L brackets become available.

Did my final shoot with my trusty 5DSr yesterday and I must admit I haven't used my 1Dx for a couple of months now. Don't feel quite as sad to retire them as I did with my nF-1 & T-90 many years ago...

Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: phila on July 31, 2020, 02:43:01 am
And for us in Oz at least each body comes with an additional substantial leather strap (perhaps not to everyone's taste or needs) and an extra LP-6NH battery. For a "limited" time.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 01, 2020, 10:03:15 am
For still photography, the Z7 is very close to the 2 years younger R5 and a7rIV.

Z7 = Announced Aug 23, 2018

A7RIV = Announced Jul 16, 2019

 :D
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 01, 2020, 10:12:07 am
BClaff posted a day or so ago PDR tests of R5

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4508716

1) Canon gets a dual gain sensor (base ISOs: 100 and 400)

2) Canon still can't get it right (S/N) at low ISO and applies NR to gain extra ~2/3 EV of DR @ low ISOs (until ISO 800) for marketing purposes  ;D

Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on August 01, 2020, 12:13:34 pm
Would like to see the actual images at Low Iso.. Will come soon i Guess.
Anyway 2/3 of a stop behind Sony sensors would not be too bad for Canon.
The good thing is Canon wants to compensate with other features that the other camera makers lack so the competition stays on in favour of the costumer.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: Ray on August 02, 2020, 07:43:55 am
The Canon R5 is very expensive. However, the very light, 800mm, fixed aperture, F11, is a bargain. I wish Nikon would produce such a lens for my Z50.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: hogloff on August 02, 2020, 03:00:50 pm
The Canon R5 is very expensive. However, the very light, 800mm, fixed aperture, F11, is a bargain. I wish Nikon would produce such a lens for my Z50.

Some of the images I saw from the 800 were not that impressive.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: Ray on August 02, 2020, 11:10:15 pm
Some of the images I saw from the 800 were not that impressive.

Could be the result of haze, or the fault of the photographer not being used to handling the R5 or an 800mm lens. Also, images that are not as sharp and detailed as one might hope, are often just OOC jpegs.

F11 on my DX 50-250, at 250mm with the Z50, results in acceptably sharp images after processing the RAW images in Adobe Bridge.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 04, 2020, 04:28:09 pm
The Canon R5 is very expensive. However, the very light, 800mm, fixed aperture, F11, is a bargain. I wish Nikon would produce such a lens for my Z50.

The street price of the R5 in Japan is 455,000 Yen.

For comparison purposes:
- a7rIV: 395,000 Yen
- Z7: 326,000 Yen

I do personally feel that the R5 is overpriced. It should be priced between the Sony and the Nikon, judt a but below the Sony, considering the this is where it sits still wise and the it’s video ends up being unusable for serious applications.

This camera is probably going to be discounted heavily pretty soon. It may be better to wait a few months instead of rushing to buy now.

I was seriously planning to but one to try it, but this price point has killed my interest.

Cheers,
Bernard

Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: scooby70 on August 04, 2020, 05:58:07 pm
Those that have prevented Sony from releasing a competitive zoom lens so far?

Those causing Sony from not releasing f1.2 primes?

But how about keeping this thread focused on the Canon R5?

As far as I am concerned I love a lot of things about my a9II. I am not interested in another passionate brand discussion.

Cheers,
Bernard

Oh I see. You must be able to make unsubstantiated claims and remain unchallenged?

Did you miss the part where I said I have two f1.2 lenses?

How about you look at things objectively now and again?

PS.
I'm not interested in a brand discussion. I'll leave that to immature fanboys. I don't care if my gear is made in Thailand or Japan and I don't care what name it carries. It's just gear.

I do however dislike fanboyism and spurious claims. Please stop.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 04, 2020, 06:38:57 pm
The street price of the R5 in Japan is 455,000 Yen.

For comparison purposes:
- a7rIV: 395,000 Yen
- Z7: 326,000 Yen

I do personally feel that the R5 is overpriced. It should be priced between the Sony and the Nikon, judt a but below the Sony, considering the this is where it sits still wise and the it’s video ends up being unusable for serious applications.

This camera is probably going to be discounted heavily pretty soon. It may be better to wait a few months instead of rushing to buy now.

I was seriously planning to but one to try it, but this price point has killed my interest.

Cheers,
Bernard

the camera just released  - Canon has every right and obligated to shareholders to reap some money off people who want to pay more ...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 04, 2020, 06:43:14 pm
Oh I see. You must be able to make unsubstantiated claims and remain unchallenged?

Did you miss the part where I said I have two f1.2 lenses?

How about you look at things objectively now and again?

PS.
I'm not interested in a brand discussion. I'll leave that to immature fanboys. I don't care if my gear is made in Thailand or Japan and I don't care what name it carries. It's just gear.

I do however dislike fanboyism and spurious claims. Please stop.

Are those f1.2 lenses Sony AF lenses meeting the GM standard?

As i said, I recommend to focus this thread on the R5.

As far as your fanboy comment goes, I am a happy Sony customer and have been praising them for the many things they have done well. Speccing the mount itself is IMHO not one of these things. You are the one with a problem accepting this objective view of things.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: Ray on August 04, 2020, 07:51:21 pm
The street price of the R5 in Japan is 455,000 Yen.

For comparison purposes:
- a7rIV: 395,000 Yen
- Z7: 326,000 Yen

I do personally feel that the R5 is overpriced. It should be priced between the Sony and the Nikon, judt a but below the Sony, considering the this is where it sits still wise and the it’s video ends up being unusable for serious applications.

This camera is probably going to be discounted heavily pretty soon. It may be better to wait a few months instead of rushing to buy now.

I was seriously planning to but one to try it, but this price point has killed my interest.

Cheers,
Bernard

If the price of the 5R body comes down, I'll consider buying it with the 800 F11 as a fixed-lens system. The combined weight of camera and lens is light enough to carry around on one shoulder with another system on the other shoulder. I dislike having to change lenses whilst walking around.

Even at the current price, the cost of the 5R, together with the 800mm F11, is still far less than the cost of any other, larger aperture, 800mm lens by itself.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: SrMi on August 04, 2020, 10:53:00 pm
BClaff posted a day or so ago PDR tests of R5

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4508716

1) Canon gets a dual gain sensor (base ISOs: 100 and 400)

2) Canon still can't get it right (S/N) at low ISO and applies NR to gain extra ~2/3 EV of DR @ low ISOs (until ISO 800) for marketing purposes  ;D

And electronic shutter is only 12-bit :(:

https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%20R5,Canon%20EOS%20R5(ES)
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 05, 2020, 01:30:05 am
If the price of the 5R body comes down, I'll consider buying it with the 800 F11 as a fixed-lens system. The combined weight of camera and lens is light enough to carry around on one shoulder with another system on the other shoulder. I dislike having to change lenses whilst walking around.

Even at the current price, the cost of the 5R, together with the 800mm F11, is still far less than the cost of any other, larger aperture, 800mm lens by itself.

This is indeed a pretty interesting combo.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: hogloff on August 05, 2020, 09:14:47 am
If the price of the 5R body comes down, I'll consider buying it with the 800 F11 as a fixed-lens system. The combined weight of camera and lens is light enough to carry around on one shoulder with another system on the other shoulder. I dislike having to change lenses whilst walking around.

Even at the current price, the cost of the 5R, together with the 800mm F11, is still far less than the cost of any other, larger aperture, 800mm lens by itself.

I saw some samples from the 800 that were not that great. Before diving into the system, maybe rent it to ensure it meets your needs. Remember also you'll most likely be shooting at higher ISO to compensate for f11.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: Ray on August 05, 2020, 10:38:24 am
I saw some samples from the 800 that were not that great. Before diving into the system, maybe rent it to ensure it meets your needs. Remember also you'll most likely be shooting at higher ISO to compensate for f11.

Are you referring to the Osprey birds-in-flight shots at Dpreview?
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4508663

The ospreys don't look at all sharp to me, after clicking on 'the original' images and enlarging. However, the images seem very compressed, or heavily cropped, have very few megapixels, and are also probably OOC jpegs.

Later in the thread, the same photographer shows some comparisons between a 500mm F5.6, used at F6.3 on a Nikon D850, and the 800mm F11 on the 5R. (I think they're herons swallowing a fish). The images from both cameras look much better, but the 800mm F11 shots look better and sharper than the 500mm F5.6 shots.

What's also interesting about the 'Photographic Dynamic Range' charts from BClaff, is that the Canon 5R seems to have 0.87 EV better PDR at ISO 400 than the Nikon Z7. At no point on the ISO scale is the PDR of the Nikon Z7 better than the Canon 5R. I wonder what the DXOMark charts will show.

I imagine that ISO 400 would be a frequently used ISO with an 800mm F11 lens. In bright light, perhaps sufficient for most moving subjects, and certainly for slow moving subjects.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 05, 2020, 04:28:47 pm
the camera just released  - Canon has every right and obligated to shareholders to reap some money off people who want to pay more ...

Certainly. And you are right that there are quite a few Canon photographers that will jump on their first competitive camera in more than 10 years whatever the price.

But there must be an optimum release price that maximizes sales while flattering the ego of Canon’s imaging division top mgt right?

I cannot help but feel that the current price is a bit biased towards the second one of these goals. I could be wrong of course.

Because I assume that Canon must have the ambition to win over Nikon and Sony users (including the many former Canon users who have switched), which forces them to take into account the competitive landscape. Odds are the some Z7 owners or Nikon DSLR users could be tempted (or could have been tempted had the price been right) by the R5 but won’t be anymore the minute a Z7s is announced in a few months by the time the price goes down.

Or is this price point an admission that Canon has given up on converting users and is happy to play towards their remaining emotionally captive DSLR user base alone? That may be it.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 05, 2020, 06:31:57 pm
But there must be an optimum release price that maximizes sales while flattering the ego of Canon’s imaging division top mgt right?

nothing prevents Canon from gradually getting it lower (through some forms of rebates or bundles, etc) once those itching to pay the full price paid it ... it is not like some GROSS miscalculations (not Canon's) a-la Fuji's X-H1... released @ $1900 it was selling for close to $1000 a year later  ;D
 
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 05, 2020, 07:09:21 pm
nothing prevents Canon from gradually getting it lower (through some forms of rebates or bundles, etc) once those itching to pay the full price paid it ... it is not like some GROSS miscalculations (not Canon's) a-la Fuji's X-H1... released @ $1900 it was selling for close to $1000 a year later  ;D

Indeed. But I would personally not pay more than 380,000 Yen for an R5 now and probably even less in 3 months.

Anyway, I wish Canon well. The R5 raises the bar and the market is a lot healthier with solid cameras from Canon to maintain pressure on Sony and Nikon.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: KLaban on August 06, 2020, 02:49:04 am
I paid through the nose for my first Nikon Z7 and considerably less for my second.

So what's new?
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on August 06, 2020, 05:32:45 am
...The lenses I would call amazing are the Zeiss Otus 100mm f1.4, Nikon S 58mm f0.95, Nikon S 85mm f1.8, Canon R 85mm f1.2....
40mm 1.4 Sigma ART...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 06, 2020, 05:46:23 am
I paid through the nose for my first Nikon Z7 and considerably less for my second.

So what's new?

In Japan 100,000 Yen extra.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: KLaban on August 06, 2020, 08:11:00 am
The first Z7 I bought was around £3,100. I saw the same model advertised recently by the same dealer at around £2,300.

Time usually sees large discounts.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 06, 2020, 08:34:20 am
The first Z7 I bought was around £3,100. I saw the same model advertised recently by the same dealer at around £2,300.

Time usually sees large discounts.

Certainly but my point is that the price of introduction is much higher.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: KLaban on August 06, 2020, 09:43:55 am
Certainly but my point is that the price of introduction is much higher.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, understood.

My point was the higher the initial price the higher the possible and likely future reductions.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: jrp on August 06, 2020, 02:39:25 pm
The first Z7 I bought was around £3,100. I saw the same model advertised recently by the same dealer at around £2,300.

This site https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Nikon/Nikon-Z-System-Cameras/Nikon-Z-7-Camera-Body scrapes longitudinal price data in a useful way.
Title: Major Overheating Problem with R5 in video
Post by: Robert DeCandido PhD on August 11, 2020, 11:53:14 am
Major overheating problem found when using video for 3+ minutes:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1658293
Title: Re: Major Overheating Problem with R5 in video
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 11, 2020, 05:27:15 pm
Major overheating problem found when using video for 3+ minutes:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1658293

This is the reason why I feel that the R5 is overpriced by 1,000 US$.

It’s actually probably the worst mirrorless body for video but you pay a large extra corresponding to the value you would get if the video worked as advertised.

That’s just a very bad deal for still shooters.

As a still camera IBIS seems great, sensor is a bit behind Sony and Nikon, AF seems roughly at a similar level overall so you would expect to pay somewhere between an a7rIV and a Z7, probably closer to an a7rIV.

I am sure that the market will adjust the prices down pretty quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Major Overheating Problem with R5 in video
Post by: Ray on August 11, 2020, 11:00:36 pm
This is the reason why I feel that the R5 is overpriced by 1,000 US$.

It’s actually probably the worst mirrorless body for video but you pay a large extra corresponding to the value you would get if the video worked as advertised.

That’s just a very bad deal for still shooters.

As a still camera IBIS seems great, sensor is a bit behind Sony and Nikon, AF seems roughly at a similar level overall so you would expect to pay somewhere between an a7rIV and a Z7, probably closer to an a7rIV.

I am sure that the market will adjust the prices down pretty quickly.

Cheers,
Bernard

On the other hand, Bernard, if the R5 were able shoot the exceptionally high quality video such as 4K 30 HQ, 4K 60, 4K 120, and 8K, without any over-heating limitations, the camera at its current price would be an absolute bargain, and would appeal to many videographers who are more interested in video than stills.

What I gather from the linked Fredmiranda thread, is that the overheating that users are complaining about, mainly applies to the use of video at its highest quality and highest frame rate.

There appears to be no overheating problem when using the standard 4K 30 mode, and 'stills' can still be taken after the camera has overheated when using the high-spec video mode.

Also, it seems possible to shoot 8K video for up to 4 hours using an external recorder instead of the in-camera card.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: jeremyrh on August 12, 2020, 06:01:59 am
This site https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Nikon/Nikon-Z-System-Cameras/Nikon-Z-7-Camera-Body scrapes longitudinal price data in a useful way.

Bloody hell - I bought my Z7 at the highest point and it tumbled VERY quickly. Ouch!  I will console myself with the thought (please don't tell me if you have data to prove I'm wrong :-)  ) that the 2nd hand price of the D850 I traded in also fell during that period, so I didn't get totally stung on the exchange :-)
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on August 22, 2020, 09:52:19 am
I read on
https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

That the Canon R5 has better dynamic Range than the Nikon d850/z7 ...
That is impressive and for the first time in a decade...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 22, 2020, 01:20:53 pm
I read on
https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

That the Canon R5 has better dynamic Range than the Nikon d850/z7 ...
That is impressive and for the first time in a decade...

do you know what solid triangles mean on PDR graph (ISO100-ISO640) ? - that is when BClaff detects a Noise Reduction (means using NR to increase S/N to increase DR) ...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: SrMi on August 24, 2020, 02:11:22 am
I read on
https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

That the Canon R5 has better dynamic Range than the Nikon d850/z7 ...
That is impressive and for the first time in a decade...

The difference is pretty minimal. AFAIK, Canon applies noise reduction to the raw files at low ISOs which raises the measured DR by about .75 stop. Still plenty of DR with R5. A bigger issue is the lower DR when using electronic shutter (12-bit only).
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on August 24, 2020, 06:40:32 am
do you know what solid triangles mean on PDR graph (ISO100-ISO640) ? - that is when BClaff detects a Noise Reduction (means using NR to increase S/N to increase DR) ...

Aaah did not know that... was already wondering what they meant...
Anyway- it is obvious Canon squeezed out everything they could to be on top for once...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: SrMi on August 24, 2020, 08:07:50 am
Aaah did not know that... was already wondering what they meant...
Anyway- it is obvious Canon squeezed out everything they could to be on top for once...

My understanding is that it means that the ‘real’ DR is lower than measured, if you compare it to cameras that do not apply NR to raw files.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 24, 2020, 06:13:02 pm
Aaah did not know that... was already wondering what they meant...
Anyway- it is obvious Canon squeezed out everything they could to be on top for once...

in any case Canon R5 has Canon's best sensor ever and Canon + it's users shall be congratulated ... unlike Nikon, who is still oscillating between dSLRs and dSLMs, Canon finally put a nail into dSLR coffin with R5 ...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on August 25, 2020, 05:40:02 am
in any case Canon R5 has Canon's best sensor ever and Canon + it's users shall be congratulated ... unlike Nikon, who is still oscillating between dSLRs and dSLMs, Canon finally put a nail into dSLR coffin with R5 ...
You mean you have less choice, for there is no Canon DSLR with a good sensor like this; Don't know if that is better.
Like my d850 as much as a Z7 having the same sensor and still find it helpful and - after all these years - special, to be able to just look through the lens you use.
EVF is getting better and better, so there will be a moment when i jump on to mirrorless. Focus by wire still needs improvements; ; like- recall the last focus position before shutdown.
An other thing is that the sensor readout speed must be on the level of the Sony A9 or higher, to be fully useful.

Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 25, 2020, 08:19:22 pm
I am pretty sure that Canon will release a 5D mkV featuring many of the R5 components and that Nikon will release a D880 featuring the AF of the D6 and many components from the Z7s.

I may even purchase the D880 as it will be the absolute pinacle of the DSLR era.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 26, 2020, 06:54:02 pm
I am pretty sure that Canon will release a 5D mkV

I am pretty sure that Canon will not be that stupid (see Nikon loosing marketshare and Canon gaining it)
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: DP on August 26, 2020, 06:56:56 pm
You mean you have less choice

it is not about choice - but about smart market move on manufacturer's side (see F mount vs FD to EF)... dSLR are walking zombies (except some Nikon users will continue to defend crippling Z6 & Z7 vs certain D- models)

Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: kers on August 26, 2020, 08:11:45 pm
it is not about choice - but about smart market move on manufacturer's side (see F mount vs FD to EF)... dSLR are walking zombies (except some Nikon users will continue to defend crippling Z6 & Z7 vs certain D- models)
As a costumer i think as one...
Walking zombies; excuse me;
Anyway, even the Walking Dead are really popular...
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 26, 2020, 11:14:12 pm
I am pretty sure that Canon will not be that stupid (see Nikon loosing marketshare and Canon gaining it)

We shall see.

One of us is very very wrong and does’t understand at all the way Japanese camera think. :-)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: shadowblade on August 27, 2020, 11:13:26 am
Haven't had a chance to try out the camera itself (stores being closed due to COVID-19 and all) but the output from the R5 is certainly impressive. I'd rate the output quality alongside the A7r4 and D850, with little to distinguish between them (the 61MP on the A7r4 doesn't usually add as much as the 16 extra megapixels would suggest, unless conditions are perfect). The R5 output seems a little easier to work with for colour portraits; for landscapes, they're pretty much the same.

Up until the pandemic, I would have said there would probably be a 5D5, and possibly even a 5D6, but very few further SLR lenses. There are a huge number of SLR lenses and SLR users out there, who, even if they aren't adding further SLR lenses to their collection, would still be keen to keep using their SLR lenses for one or two more generations, until the lenses start to wear out or get superseded by newer/sharper/lighter technology.

With the pandemic and subsequent economic downturn, however, I'm not so sure. Doubly so if the already-delayed Tokyo Olympics end up being cancelled entirely. Any further 1D- and 5D-line releases would be about catering for existing SLR users, not attracting new ones. Canon may just decide to cut its losses and concentrate on the mirrorless line which represents its future, rather than putting further resources into SLR.
Title: Re: Canon R5 released
Post by: chez on August 27, 2020, 04:22:34 pm
Haven't had a chance to try out the camera itself (stores being closed due to COVID-19 and all) but the output from the R5 is certainly impressive. I'd rate the output quality alongside the A7r4 and D850, with little to distinguish between them (the 61MP on the A7r4 doesn't usually add as much as the 16 extra megapixels would suggest, unless conditions are perfect). The R5 output seems a little easier to work with for colour portraits; for landscapes, they're pretty much the same.

Up until the pandemic, I would have said there would probably be a 5D5, and possibly even a 5D6, but very few further SLR lenses. There are a huge number of SLR lenses and SLR users out there, who, even if they aren't adding further SLR lenses to their collection, would still be keen to keep using their SLR lenses for one or two more generations, until the lenses start to wear out or get superseded by newer/sharper/lighter technology.

With the pandemic and subsequent economic downturn, however, I'm not so sure. Doubly so if the already-delayed Tokyo Olympics end up being cancelled entirely. Any further 1D- and 5D-line releases would be about catering for existing SLR users, not attracting new ones. Canon may just decide to cut its losses and concentrate on the mirrorless line which represents its future, rather than putting further resources into SLR.

If I were to purchase DSLR equipment today, I'd buy used...big glut ( and growing ) of used DSLR cameras and lenses going for a fraction the price of new. I just don't see a new DSLR selling very well given the used prices.