US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

I agree with most of that, though it only scratches the surface, and I am not even British. Opinions differ though.

[Craig Lamson]

You may have a different opinion and that is fine but it doesn't entitle you to call mine stupid which you also did.

Please quote me calling you stupid.  I called the Goya boycott stupid.

Might I remind you that you also said this:

"Then those on the right are just stupid."

[Alan Klein]

Somebody just sent me this. It comes under the heading of "Good Writing", discussed here recently.

Nate White

“Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:

A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?' If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.

Nathaniel Ridgway White was an award-winning journalist known for his business and financial reporting at The Christian Science Monitor. He received the second and third Gerald Loeb Awards for Newspapers, the most prestigious award for business journalism. Wikipedia

You and the British are only watching CNN outtakes.  If you watch him in a full interview, yukking it up a rally with his supporters telling jokes with wry humor, you would get a different view of him. Trump is ingratiating, clever, sharp, full of energy.  How do you think he got where he did.  Of course, the press you watch doesn't show that. They pull out only the negative stuff.

Biden puts everyone to sleep.  There's nothing exciting about him. He's acts like an old man trying to remember if he took his pills that morning. Trust me.  I know that look.   

[plugsnpixels]

I SAW the coming election in tonight's sunset! Last time it looked like this was in late March...

[faberryman]

Speaking of delusional, here is an article about the most recent tension between Trump and Dr. Fauci:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/31/politics/white-house-fauci-trump-atlas-pandemic-response/index.html

And then of course there is the tension between Dr. Birx and Scott Alas, Trump’s favorite radiologist and chief coronavirus advisor, to consider as well:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/10/29/deborah-birx-scott-atlas-coronavirus-task-force-bennett-lead-vpx.cnn?hpt=ob_blogfooterold

What, this patient has tested positive for coronavirus? Better get some x-rays stat.

[Peter McLennan]

Speaking of delusional, here is an article about the tension between Trump and Dr. Fauci:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/31/politics/white-house-fauci-trump-atlas-pandemic-response/index.html

Especially this quote from Trump:

"People are tired of Covid. I have the biggest rallies I've ever had, and we have Covid," Trump said, phoning into a call with campaign staff from his namesake hotel in Las Vegas, where he spent two nights amid a western campaign swing. "People are saying whatever. Just leave us alone. They're tired of it. People are tired of hearing Fauci and all these idiots."

Absolutely astounding.

[faberryman]

The feud between The Lincoln Project and the Trump campaign continues apace with The Lincoln Project’s latest “psy ops” being the placement of a large billboard critical of Jared and Ivanka’s response to the pandemic on a boat parked in front of Mar-a-Lago. Of course the Javankas have threatened to sue The Lincoln Project to within an inch of their lives.

https://www.newsweek.com/lincoln-project-ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-billboard-mar-lago-1543773

I love The Lincoln Project.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

It isn't like the United States Constitution is some lengthy document; it is all of about 17-pages long—including all of the amendments. But since you won't look it up yourself...

https://constitutioncenter.org/media/files/constitution.pdf

20th Amendment - Section 3

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

However, a different scenario is more likely to unfold ...

What if a US presidential candidate refuses to concede after an election?
https://youtu.be/WZWRhLW7Y8w

Did you know that under the US constitution, a Presidential candidate can actually lose the popular vote, fail to get a majority in the electoral college vote, refuse to concede [...] and still get sworn in as he President of the United States of America?

It's loopholes like these why I selected Trump on this thread's poll as the more likely candidate to be sworn in (maybe not by January 21st).

[Alan Klein]

However, a different scenario is more likely to unfold ...

What if a US presidential candidate refuses to concede after an election?
https://youtu.be/WZWRhLW7Y8w

It's loopholes like these why I selected Trump on this thread's poll as the more likely candidate to be sworn in (maybe not by January 21st).

Concession isn't required.  A president's term ends in four years.

[Alan Goldhammer]

The New York Times has a lengthy article on the Rudy Giuliani efforts to tar Joe Biden with the alleged things that Hunter did.  I hope the doubters of the MSM will take time to read this as it fully explains why this is all a bunch BS.  The complaints from some on this thread that major papers are not covering this are misguided as the story shows there isn't much to cover.  If one believes an almost blind computer repair person in Delaware came into possession of an incriminating computer, maybe they might also believe in the Roswell NM alien invasion.  Enjoy the read:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/31/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-biden.html

I'm looking forward to the forensic analysis if it ever comes!

[Alan Klein]

On Sunday I watched 60 Minutes and saw the Trump interview with Leslie Stahl. Trump didn't strike me as ingratiating, clever, sharp, full of energy. Well, maybe full of energy. He got all worked up and walked out. Perhaps he is ingratiating, clever, sharp, full of energy when you are kissing his ass.

Did they only show outtakes in an unfriendly environment?  Watch some other interviews and videos of Trump.  I'm sure we'd be more pleasant to each other as well in a friendly setting rather than what happens here with our constant bickering over politics. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Concession isn't required.  A president's term ends in four years.

Exactly right.  There are some interesting scenarios but lack of concession no the part of a sitting President is not one of them.  For me I hope that we don't have a repeat of a candidate winning the electoral college and not the popular vote.  If this ends up being the third time this century it happens, it will not be good for the country.  We are already sliding into unrepresentative democracy that the founders could not have imagined when they drafted the Constitution.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Did they only show outtakes in an unfriendly environment?  Watch some other interviews and videos of Trump.  I'm sure we'd be more pleasant to each other as well in a friendly setting rather than what happens here with our constant bickering over politics.

Trump has had extensive media experience and should know when he is walking into a confrontational interview.  Back in the day when I was working at PhRMA, I was the principal spokesperson for drug safety issues.  I had may share of very difficult interviews on both TV and radio.  You have to really stay focused and not lose your cool.  My slightly humorous tagline was, "I've been media trained and can say anything I want."

[Alan Klein]

The New York Times has a lengthy article on the Rudy Giuliani efforts to tar Joe Biden with the alleged things that Hunter did.  I hope the doubters of the MSM will take time to read this as it fully explains why this is all a bunch BS.  The complaints from some on this thread that major papers are not covering this are misguided as the story shows there isn't much to cover.  If one believes an almost blind computer repair person in Delaware came into possession of an incriminating computer, maybe they might also believe in the Roswell NM alien invasion.  Enjoy the read:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/31/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-biden.html

I'm looking forward to the forensic analysis if it ever comes!

Why should the NY Times stop protecting Biden now?  You know they endorsed him to be president, don't you? 

[faberryman]

Concession isn't required.  A president's term ends in four years.

Yeah, so if a president won't leave the White House at the end of his term, federal law enforcement gets to go in with a swat team to cuff him and drag his ass out. I hope they toss him in an unmarked car they rented from Hertz, and take him to a secret location to interrogate him for a couple of hours before releasing him back on the street.

[Alan Goldhammer]

Why should the NY Times stop protecting Biden now?  You know they endorsed him to be president, don't you?

Why comment if you are not going to read the article?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Exactly right.  There are some interesting scenarios but lack of concession on the part of a sitting President is not one of them.

Some seem to disagree.

[Alan Klein]

Yeah, so if a president won't leave the White House at the end of his term, federal law enforcement gets to go in with a swat team to cuff him and drag his ass out. I hope they toss him in an unmarked car they rented from Hertz, and take him to a secret location to interrogate him for a couple of hours before releasing him back on the street.

Just another smear about Trump that's just silly.  It's just to try to make him seems crazy when it's the people making up these stupid ideas who are nuts. 

When a president's term is over, he loses all power.  He couldn't even command the cook at the White House to prepare him a cup of tea.  The new president moves in on Jan 21st, 2021, assuming Biden wins, and the secret service takes the old president to wherever he wants to go, possibly Trump Tower, although Donald might prefer Mar A Lago, Florida where it's warmer.  Then he gets on with his life.  He has no power. That's how America works.  He commands nothing and nobody.  There can't be two presidents.

[Alan Klein]

Some seem to disagree.

They're wrong.  They hate Trump so much they actually believe these fairy tales.   I've kept telling you Bart for four years to stop watching the anti-Trump press, but you wouldn't listen. Now, you wasted your vote like a lot of Americans will as well who also listened to the fake news press. 

[Alan Klein]

Why comment if you are not going to read the article?

I read the NY Times all the time.  I know where they stand. Anyone can write an article condemning or approving behavior.  The truth will come out after the election.