US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

You keep repeating those same sins over and over. Have been for months now. All part of the messaging campaign?

It’s more an obsession than a messaging campaign.

[Alan Klein]

The best way to influence the black vote is to actually listen to what the block people are protesting about rather than sending in the national guard against them. If Trump thinks he can swing the black vote by this pardon...he is a fool.

Most of the businesses burned out were owned by blacks.  Most blacks, 80% in a poll, was the number I read recently,  want strong police protection because they are the main victims of black crime.  Of course, bad cops should be fired and go to jail when they violate people's rights regardless of the color of the cop or victim. All cops should get better training and weeded out for malfeasance early in their career.  Unfortunately, they are often protected by unions who get politicians to support protective contract rules because the unions support the politicians. You see the same thing with public teacher's unions.  It's almost impossible to get one fired.

I agree with you that most blacks vote Democrat.  Frankly, the democrats have done little for the black community except undermine their families.  They'd do better under republican administrations as they had under Trump until the virus.  Black and Latino employment rolls were the highest ever under Trump and could be again if he is re-elected.

[Alan Klein]

You can hold hands as long as you wash your hands before you put your hand to your face. You don't have to wear a mask as long as you don't breathe.

I don't think shaking hands is acceptable.  So why would holding them as they did giving high fives or whatever be acceptable?  What a change for a guy hiding in his basement afraid to come out.

[Robert Roaldi]

  They'd do better under republican administrations as they had under Trump until the virus. 

Funny how they don't seem to agree with you. What is it that they're missing.

[Alan Klein]

I saw a photo of Trump surrounded by his family with no social distancing or masks. It is not surprising. I am sure they have all been tested. I don’t remember seeing Mike Pence and his wife in the photo. They may have been there. I saw a couple of masks in the crowd of 1500 guests. I doubt any of them were tested, unless it was just a temperature check. I hope no one regrets having attended.

We want a gutsy president who's out there fighting for us and doing important things and not worried all the time.  Not some scaredy cat hiding in the basement dressing like the Lone Ranger in drag. 

[Robert Roaldi]

We want a gutsy president who's out there fighting for us and doing important things and not worried all the time.  Not some scaredy cat hiding in the basement dressing like the Lone Ranger in drag.

So it's bad if Biden holds hands but gutsy if Trump does it.

[Alan Klein]

But Biden isn’t an actual, you know, criminal, if that sort of stuff matters to you...   

Neither is Trump. 

[Alan Klein]

Any evidence of that?

Biden admitted he plagiarized.  Plagiarizing is cheating.

[TechTalk]

Copied and pasted directly from the Politifact site:

Michelle:
"Because we want our children — and all children in this nation — to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”   

Melania:
“Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them.”

Michelle:
“And Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them."

Melania:
“From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect. They taught and showed me values and morals in their daily lives. That is a lesson that I continue to pass along to our son."


OK, you wanna split hairs, Mr. Lawyer?  OK, not precisely, absolutely and contiguously word for word, but "word for word" enough to get you disqualified by either a court of law or an academic institution.

Your desperate adherence to minutiae is telling.

Yes. Lengthy sections lifted word for word and inserted into her speech and then broken up slightly to hide the fact.

"In a statement issued by the Trump campaign, staff writer Meredith McIver accepted responsibility for the addition of Michelle Obama's words in the speech.

In her statement, McIver said Melania Trump "always liked" Mrs. Obama and read passages from the 2008 speech to McIver, who says she wrote them down and included them in the speech."

https://www.npr.org/2016/07/20/trump-speechwriter-accepts-responsibility-for-using-michelle-obamas-words

* A word of caution, that is likely unnecessary, but offered nonetheless. With online forums generally, you may find yourself on a merry-go-round of argument that appears to be propelled by immaturity and insecurity in which the spinning only ends when smug self-congratulatory vainglory is achieved.

[Robert Roaldi]

* A word of caution, that is likely unnecessary, but offered nonetheless. With online forums generally, you may find yourself on a merry-go-round of argument that appears to be propelled by immaturity and insecurity in which the spinning only ends when smug self-congratulatory vainglory is achieved.

That's a pretty good working definition of social media.

[Alan Klein]

So it's bad if Biden holds hands but gutsy if Trump does it.

But Biden wants it both ways.  On the one hand he's complaining that Trump doesn't wear a mask for political reasons.  But then Biden holds hands for political reasons. What kind of an example of healthy virus protocol is that?  That's being a phoney.  Of course the press never mentioned it.  They were busy protecting him from  himself and hoped nobody would notice. 

[TechTalk]

Biden cheated as a politician while holding positions of power.

Any evidence of that?

Biden admitted he plagiarized.  Plagiarizing is cheating.

OK. That last one made me laugh out loud! The awesome power and abuse of position unleashed by self-confessed plagiarism on occasion!

[TechTalk]

That's a pretty good working definition of social media.

Sad but true.

[TechTalk]

I agree with you that most blacks vote Democrat.  Frankly, the democrats have done little for the black community except undermine their families.  They'd do better under republican administrations as they had under Trump until the virus.

I think that the individual members that make up the majority of any given community are competent to decide for themselves what is in their best interest and vote accordingly. Don't you?

[Craig Lamson]

Sad but true.

You would know, it’s your MO

[TechTalk]

You would know, it’s your MO

And a lovely evening to you as well.

[Alan Klein]

I think that the individual members that make up the majority of any given community are competent to decide for themselves what is in their best interest and vote accordingly. Don't you?

Well, no one can vote for them.  However, Republicans should remind voters how their situations have changed under Trump for the better.  Hopefully they'll see what's  in their best interest differently then they had before and vote Republican.   

[TechTalk]

At the same time during Obama's administration, VP Biden was getting the Ukrainian prosecutor fired.  He was investigating the corporation that Biden's son received millions of dollars from in a sweetheart, no show job, only because he was the son of a Vice President.

My understanding is that Joe Biden was carrying out bi-partisan US official policy toward a prosecutor (Shokin) that was NOT pursuing corruption in Ukraine and who was was undermining a British money-laundering probe that involved Burisma’s owner. That was also the view of our allies in the EU and elsewhere, as well as the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. The US threat to withhold 1 Billion dollars in US loan guarantees was accompanied by a threat by the IMF to delay 40 Billion dollars in aid due to ongoing corruption. It was not a secret Biden effort, it was openly and widely discussed US policy with broad international support.

https://www.usatoday.com/2019/10/03/what-really-happened-when-biden-forced-out-ukraines-top-prosecutor

https://www.usatoday.com/2020/03/12/republican-senators-joe-hunter-biden-burisma-anti-corruption-loan

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/ukrainealert/why-poroshenko-s-support-for-shokin-is-dangerous

Now if your scenario is correct, you may want to re-evaluate your perceived weakness of Biden's foreign policy negotiating skills. If you're right about Biden and Ukraine, he was able to muster the weight of the EU and the world's largest international financial institutions and get Executive Branch and bi-partisan Congressional support all lined up just to help his son keep a job. And that was as Vice-President, a job that has no real power behind it. Imagine what he could do as President with something of real importance!

[John Camp]

Well, no one can vote for them.  However, Republicans should remind voters how their situations have changed under Trump for the better.  Hopefully they'll see what's  in their best interest differently then they had before and vote Republican.   

There are 31.2 million people unemployed now. How exactly have their situations improved?

[jeremyrh]

There are 31.2 million people unemployed now. How exactly have their situations improved?

Well compared with the 180,000 dead, they're laughing!!