US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Klein]

I made my point.  You point all you want.

[jeremyrh]

The Democrat strategy is to make fun of their enemies.  It has been a tried and true practice they have used for decades going back to Ike. 

 On the other hand, if voters discount the personal attacks and ask themselves if Biden can really do the job, his hiding out as a strategy may backfire.

We'll find out soon what voters are thinking.

And maybe the voters will get tired of the tweets with the childish nicknames and the endless lying.

As you say, we'll find out.

[PeterAit]

You just proved my point by doing it again.

 

By being right?

[Alan Klein]

 

By being right?

What do you think?

[Robert Roaldi]

Long-form thoughtful article about the lack of ideas in modern politics, https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/24/republicanmeltdown-trump-convention-400039. This article is written primarily about the current US Republican party but the theme is more general than that, imo.

[Alan Klein]

So Biden drew a line in the sand and said he will shut down the economy again if the scientists tell him too.  So everything we've been arguing on the left and right even in this thread have now become part of the presidential campaign officially. 

How is Biden going to tell the wedding photographers that their families are going to starve and lose their businesses and homes?  What is he going to tell all those out of work "deplorables" in the swing states that they have to stand in food lines?  I'm not sure this is a good campaign strategy on his part when even Democrat governors are trying hard to keep their economies open.

[MattBurt]

So Biden drew a line in the sand and said he will shut down the economy again if the scientists tell him too.  So everything we've been arguing on the left and right even in this thread have now become part of the presidential campaign officially. 

How is Biden going to tell the wedding photographers that their families are going to starve and lose their businesses and homes?  What is he going to tell all those out of work "deplorables" in the swing states that they have to stand in food lines?  I'm not sure this is a good campaign strategy on his part when even Democrat governors are trying hard to keep their economies open.

We don't know yet but I think the best approach would be a shutdown in combination with some kind of assistance to help us all through it. Yes it will be expensive. Especially now that we are this far in.

Better than denial or claims of it magically going away with zero credible supporting evidence. Those have proven to be pretty ineffective.
Time for a different approach with some actual leadership at the top and a solid scientific foundation.

It's a bitter pill to swallow and the longer we wait the worse it gets. I agree it may not be the best campaign strategy for the scientifically illiterate but I'd rather hear straight talk than BS even when it's not good news. I think to people who respect the scientific community's recommendations it's a reasonable and honest thing to say.

[jeremyrh]

How is Biden going to tell the wedding photographers that their families are going to starve and lose their businesses and homes? 

Dunno.  How is Trump telling families that their breadwinner is now dead?

[Alan Klein]

Dunno.  How is Trump telling families that their breadwinner is now dead?

No one is twisting the breadwinners' arms.  It's up to them.  Like our Joe Kitchen or Craig Lamson here, it's a personal decision.  If they want to chance it, well that's what liberty is all about.  We don't need government telling us how to live all the time.  For old guys like me who are retired and not working, we can stay home to be safe.  I still get my Social Security and pension.  I shop by phone.  I do curbside pickups or have deliveries to my home.  But even I have to chance things.  I've been to NYC three times for medical and dental reasons.  Ditto here in New Jersey.  I don't like taking chances even with masks and 6 feet.  But I have to get on with life too.  So do people who work.  Government support only goes so far.  What good is money from the government if they don't let you open your store, restaurant, gym, barber shop, or photography and wedding store?  You spend your whole life putting it together.  It provides security for you and your family.  It's not easy to tell your children they'll have to tighten their belts because daddy and mommy lost their business.

NYC government is begging businesses not to close down or leave NYC.  Come back and open your stores they're being implored. Things are so dire there  even anti-Trump, left leaning Democrat ideologies like Gov Cuomo and Mayor Di Blasio know the city will fail if we don't get back to some form of normality.  They're asking millionaires and billionaires not to leave.  Cuomo is against raising their taxes because he knows they'll move to states with lower state taxes or none at all like Florida.  Higher taxes will bankrupt the state quicker.   

[jeremyrh]

No one is twisting the breadwinners' arms.  It's up to them. 

People decide to get covid?  Wow!

[Alan Klein]

People decide to get covid?  Wow!

That's a false choice. It's not a binary outcome. Most working people will not get Covid and die just like most people won't get into an accident and die when they drive their cars.  Of course, there's always that possibility.  Certainly working to support your family is a huge incentive to take risks.  Especially when you consider people are taking risks just going out to restaurants now.

Which reminds of the guy who asked his wife what she was making for dinner.  She responded, "I'm making reservations."

In any case, politically and economically, Biden wanting to shut down the economy is a loser.

[Peter McLennan]

Long-form thoughtful article about the lack of ideas in modern politics, https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/24/republicanmeltdown-trump-convention-400039. This article is written primarily about the current US Republican party but the theme is more general than that, imo.

Good article.  Worth the read.

[Peter McLennan]

No one is twisting the breadwinners' arms.  It's up to them.  Like our Joe Kitchen or Craig Lamson here, it's a personal decision.  If they want to chance it, well that's what liberty is all about.  We don't need government telling us how to live all the time.

Absolutely!  Screw everybody else, I make my OWN decisions.

[JoeKitchen]

Absolutely!  Screw everybody else, I make my OWN decisions.

 

I'm not locking down again.  I really dont care anymore, and no one is going to make me care enough to follow another lockdown let along support it. 

Sorry, we just cant live like this anymore for an extremely survivable virus. 

[JoeKitchen]

Long-form thoughtful article about the lack of ideas in modern politics, https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/24/republicanmeltdown-trump-convention-400039. This article is written primarily about the current US Republican party but the theme is more general than that, imo.

What happens when a party gives up on ideas?  You get what happened last week!     Seriously, give me one idea that was put forth last week, just one?  All that was said boiled down to Trump is bad and Biden is good who is liked by  his wife.  No policies were discussed at all, nor were the riots even acknowledged.  The Dems have lost, they just don't know it yet. 

But anyway, I am glad someone found a locking eye glass to see into the future since, I mean how else could he know something that did not happen yet was a meltdown.

By the way, viewership for the DNC was down 21% from where it was in 2016.  Let's see where viewership for the RNC is by the end of week. 

[Alan Klein]

Absolutely!  Screw everybody else, I make my OWN decisions.

Telling people who want to feed their families that they're immoral is a self-centered position to take.  So your attitude is screw them, I count more than they and their children do.  That's exactly why this is a losing position for Biden.  It's the same position Hillary took when she said screw the coal miners and their jobs and families.  Green energy is more important than their ability to work and feed their families.  If Biden keeps that up, he'll be commiserating with Hillary.

[Robert Roaldi]

Telling people who want to feed their families that they're immoral is a self-centered position to take. 

Who said that?

[Peter McLennan]

Telling people who want to feed their families that they're immoral is a self-centered position to take.

That's quite possibly true. I didn't take that position.  You made that up all by yourself.

So your attitude is screw them, I count more than they and their children do.

Please don't tell me what my attitude is. You're frequently wrong about many things and you're wrong about this.

My sarcastic comment was directed at those who refuse to comply with simple rules that benefit everybody.
 
As opposed to complying with their own rules that benefit themselves at the expense of everybody.

[jeremyrh]

I'm not locking down again.  I really dont care anymore, and no one is going to make me care enough to follow another lockdown let along support it. 

Sorry, we just cant live like this anymore for an extremely survivable virus.

Survivable for you, perhaps (or perhaps not) but less so for the older people you come into contact with. Still, you're the only one who matters, right?

[jeremyrh]

Telling people who want to feed their families that they're immoral is a self-centered position to take.  So your attitude is screw them, I count more than they and their children do.  That's exactly why this is a losing position for Biden.  It's the same position Hillary took when she said screw the coal miners and their jobs and families.  Green energy is more important than their ability to work and feed their families.  If Biden keeps that up, he'll be commiserating with Hillary.

You are getting  into a muddle again.  The ones saying "screw them" are the ones who consider themselves above simple publc health advice.  They are the ones (like Trump) who are saying screw workers and their families - either they go out and propagate the virus or they starve. 170,000 paid the price of that attitude, and you're not done yet by a long way.