Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems) (Read 258119 times)

Robert Roaldi · « **Reply #1040 on:** August 21, 2020, 08:35:42 am »

Quote from: JoeKitchen on August 21, 2020, 07:24:01 am

The same experts who said if we move the embassy to Jerusalem all hell will break out. Embassy was moved and nadda. The same experts who said if we pull out of the Iran deal all hell would break out. We pulled out and nadda. Sure, we had to put down some dirtbag general, which did not start WWIII by the way. The same experts who for decades told us that that Israel Palestinian conflict was the key to Middle East peace and if we did not solve this, there would be no peace. Well, after 50+ yeas and 3 generations of displaced Palestinians, the Trump administration decided to state the obvious, they are as much refugees as the grand children of Jews displaced by WWII, which is to say not refugees at all, and Trump just moved on to other common interests.

And so, after all of this, after all of the "ignorance" towards advisors, Trump just walked away with the first major peace deal in the Middle East in 26 years. So about those advisors ...

The problems in the Middle East have been going on for a long time, over many generations and certainly over many American election cycles. As to whether Trump has even made a minor dent in it, well, all I can say is, "We'll see."

The fact that wars did not break out over the embassy move or the Iranian nuclear deal is indicative of nothing at all.

So, you put down a dirtbag general. Ok, but was it your place to do that? Do you think anyone believes anymore than the US is the world's police force. That ship sailed. And anyway, what about the Saudi dirtbags? Or the Russian ones. So you sent a signal to Iran to shut up, BFD. What long-term effects that will have remain to be seen. These things play out over time periods that are much longer than any President's tenure and certainly much longer than the attention span of any American TV viewer. All I'm saying is that it's too early to celebrate or even pat yourselves on the back.

I've been watching the Ken Burns series on the Vietnam War. What it shows, if nothing else, is that the daily news cycle and the pablum served up to the unwashed by the government and the popular media mean next to nothing.

Alan Klein · « **Reply #1041 on:** August 21, 2020, 08:40:00 am »

Quote from: William Walker on August 21, 2020, 08:30:03 am

Alan, please do a quick character assassination on this guy and tell me what he wrote is not true.

I am so confused between what you say about Trump and all these other folks...

"Quid pro quo:Trump's clemency for Roger Stone is an admission of the president's guilt in Russia probe

This level of criminality surrounding a president is unparalleled. We have not seen its like in American history before (though perhaps Richard Nixon comes close)."
- Paul Rosenzweig, a senior fellow in the National Security and Cyber Security Program at the R Street Institute, was senior counsel to Kenneth Starr in the Whitewater investigation and a deputy assistant secretary of Homeland Security in the George W. Bush administration.

OK. I'll bite.

The guy's a jerk and doesn't know what he's talking about.

How's that?

William Walker · « **Reply #1042 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:01:04 am »

Quote from: Alan Klein on August 21, 2020, 08:40:00 am

OK. I'll bite.

The guy's a jerk and doesn't know what he's talking about.

How's that?

But there was a time when you thought the opposite...like Bannon, Bolton, Mattis, Kelly, McMaster and the rest...your circle is becoming ever smaller.
Soon it will be be just you and Trump!

Robert Roaldi · « **Reply #1043 on:** August 21, 2020, 11:57:19 am »

Quote from: William Walker on August 21, 2020, 10:01:04 am

But there was a time when you thought the opposite...like Bannon, Bolton, Mattis, Kelly, McMaster and the rest...your circle is becoming ever smaller.
Soon it will be be just you and Trump!

In the past he has attributed the high turnover in Presidential advisors to Trump's high standards.

JoeKitchen · « **Reply #1044 on:** August 21, 2020, 12:24:35 pm »

Quote from: Robert Roaldi on August 21, 2020, 08:35:42 am

The problems in the Middle East have been going on for a long time, over many generations and certainly over many American election cycles. As to whether Trump has even made a minor dent in it, well, all I can say is, "We'll see."

The fact that wars did not break out over the embassy move or the Iranian nuclear deal is indicative of nothing at all.

So, you put down a dirtbag general. Ok, but was it your place to do that? Do you think anyone believes anymore than the US is the world's police force. That ship sailed. And anyway, what about the Saudi dirtbags? Or the Russian ones. So you sent a signal to Iran to shut up, BFD. What long-term effects that will have remain to be seen. These things play out over time periods that are much longer than any President's tenure and certainly much longer than the attention span of any American TV viewer. All I'm saying is that it's too early to celebrate or even pat yourselves on the back.

I've been watching the Ken Burns series on the Vietnam War. What it shows, if nothing else, is that the daily news cycle and the pablum served up to the unwashed by the government and the popular media mean next to nothing.

Well sure, unrest has been going on in the Middle East for many decades, centuries even. So has Trump made a dent in it, for a time, at least, and judging by the standards of the Nobel Peace commission in 2009, he deserves a good deal of credit. However, we will see if it last.

And the point I was making by noting the move of the embassy had nothing to do with the Middle East, but with the DC elite who were all proved wrong in their dire warnings that war would follow. It did not, and so their credibility has been damaged, along with other failed predictions.

Ken Burns does a good job on giving a center left view of the Vietnam War, which I respect. Bill Whittle of Esoteric Radio Theatre gives a nice center right view of the War in his The Cold War podcast, albeit less detailed since he covers the entirety of the Cold War instead of just one event. The truth is somewhere in between, as always.

Alan Klein · « **Reply #1045 on:** August 21, 2020, 01:03:43 pm »

Quote from: Robert Roaldi on August 21, 2020, 11:57:19 am

In the past he has attributed the high turnover in Presidential advisors to Trump's high standards.

I never said that. I believe I said effectiveness and loyalty.

Alan Klein · « **Reply #1046 on:** August 21, 2020, 01:19:51 pm »

Quote from: Robert Roaldi on August 21, 2020, 08:35:42 am

The problems in the Middle East have been going on for a long time, over many generations and certainly over many American election cycles. As to whether Trump has even made a minor dent in it, well, all I can say is, "We'll see."

The fact that wars did not break out over the embassy move or the Iranian nuclear deal is indicative of nothing at all.

So, you put down a dirtbag general. Ok, but was it your place to do that? Do you think anyone believes anymore than the US is the world's police force. That ship sailed. And anyway, what about the Saudi dirtbags? Or the Russian ones. So you sent a signal to Iran to shut up, BFD. What long-term effects that will have remain to be seen. These things play out over time periods that are much longer than any President's tenure and certainly much longer than the attention span of any American TV viewer. All I'm saying is that it's too early to celebrate or even pat yourselves on the back.

I've been watching the Ken Burns series on the Vietnam War. What it shows, if nothing else, is that the daily news cycle and the pablum served up to the unwashed by the government and the popular media mean next to nothing.

Yes. The dirtbag general we killed was Qassem Soleimani who killed hundreds of American troops throughout the Middle East. Four other dirtbags were killed including Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the leader of an Iranian-supported militia who was implicated in the 1983 bombing of our embassy in Kuwait. Americans have a long memory as well as a long arm.

Jeremy Roussak · « **Reply #1047 on:** August 21, 2020, 02:00:22 pm »

Quote from: dreed on August 21, 2020, 07:37:08 am

A used car salesman is president of the USA and his supporters think the Sun shines out of his a*** because he isn't a suit from the beltway. (Actually, he wears diapers because he has no control of his bowels or bladder, so no Sun comes out there, just an uncontrollable stream of s**t, like what comes out of his mouth.)

If you are incapable of expressing yourself other than in such language, you have no place here. Do not indulge yourself in that way again. Final warning.

Jeremy

John Camp · « **Reply #1048 on:** August 21, 2020, 02:16:31 pm »

Quote from: Robert Roaldi on August 21, 2020, 08:35:42 am

The problems in the Middle East have been going on for a long time, over many generations and certainly over many American election cycles. As to whether Trump has even made a minor dent in it, well, all I can say is, "We'll see."

Kish (Iraq) defeated Elam (Iran) c.2650 bce

John Camp · « **Reply #1049 on:** August 21, 2020, 02:25:37 pm »

Quote from: Alan Klein on August 21, 2020, 06:02:51 am

Who's responsible for forest management in California? When I visited the Grand Canyon National Park, I was amazed how the US Forest Service cleaned out all the dryfall. In between all the fir trees, the were piles of brush that were assembled. I don't know if they were being left there or were just being readied for complete removal. But the areas between the trees were clear of brush to prevent future fires that would have burned worse.

Can't California do similar things in the most dangerous areas? Instead of wasting billions on silly programs, they might be able to reduce bad fires in some areas at least. In any case, Trump is pointing out Democrat incompetence with forest management, burning cities due to riots, spikes in crime, cities overrun with the homeless, etc. Taxpayers want effective management out of their governments. It asks the question. Would you trust Trump or Biden to get things done?

Jeez, Alan -- California has 33 million acres of *forest* -- that's six times the total area of New Jersey. Sweep it up?

Alan Klein · « **Reply #1050 on:** August 21, 2020, 02:52:37 pm »

Quote from: John Camp on August 21, 2020, 02:25:37 pm

Jeez, Alan -- California has 33 million area of *forest* -- that's six times the total area of New Jersey. Sweep it up?

From my post: "...Can't California do similar things in the most dangerous areas? Instead of wasting billions on silly programs, they might be able to reduce bad fires in some areas at least..."

I'm not suggesting they go into the forests where few people live. I understand those are huge. But they can start in the most occupied and dangerous areas. You see them every year going up in flames on the news. Homes on hills with lots of brush. The fires start and sweep up the hills taking the homes with them. If they cut down the brush, the fires would not spread. They should pay the firefighters who fight forest fires all year to cut down the brush instead of some stupid social programs that waste a lot of money. Maybe they can use the money they're taking from the cops.

Robert Roaldi · « **Reply #1051 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:15:14 pm »

Forgive me for asking the obvious. I know it seems self-evident but do we know for a fact that cleaning underbrush would avoid wildfires or is everyone just assuming it to be the case?

LesPalenik · « **Reply #1052 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:42:19 pm »

Clearing underbrush would reduce the amount of combustible material and thus number of uncontrolled wildfires. However, a controlled burning is often easier and more effective than just removal of brush. In grassy regions like in Florida or Georgia, prescribed burning has been used for many years removing all flammable brush and ground growth and also to enrich the soil.

Alan Klein · « **Reply #1053 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:45:52 pm »

California law requires that homeowners in SRA clear out flammable materials such as brush or vegetation around their buildings to 100 feet (or the property line) to create a defensible space buffer. This helps halt the progress of an approaching wildfire and keeps firefighters safe while they defend your home
https://www.readyforwildfire.org/more/fire-safety-laws

LesPalenik · « **Reply #1054 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:50:23 pm »

Quote from: Alan Klein on August 21, 2020, 10:45:52 pm

California law requires that homeowners in SRA clear out flammable materials such as brush or vegetation around their buildings to 100 feet (or the property line) to create a defensible space buffer. This helps halt the progress of an approaching wildfire and keeps firefighters safe while they defend your home
https://www.readyforwildfire.org/more/fire-safety-laws

In Ontario, if you dig on your rural property a decent size pond filled with water, you'll get a discount for your house insurance.

Alan Klein · « **Reply #1055 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:50:59 pm »

Quote from: LesPalenik on August 21, 2020, 10:42:19 pm

Clearing underbrush would reduce the amount of combustible material and thus number of uncontrolled wildfires. However, a controlled burning is often easier and more effective than just removal of brush. In grassy regions like in Florida or Georgia, prescribed burning has been used for many years removing all flammable brush and ground growth and also to enrich the soil.

California stopped or cut back controlled burns because of the covid-19 virus. Another associate casualty of shuting everything down.

LesPalenik · « **Reply #1056 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:52:49 pm »

Quote from: Alan Klein on August 21, 2020, 10:50:59 pm

California stopped or cut back controlled burns because of the covid-19 virus. Another associate casualty of shuting everything down.

Because of smoke-induced cough?

Alan Klein · « **Reply #1057 on:** August 21, 2020, 10:57:38 pm »

Quote from: LesPalenik on August 21, 2020, 10:50:23 pm

In Ontario, if you dig on your rural property a decent size pond filled with water, you'll get a discount for your house insurance.

unfortunately there's no water in California. If it wasn't for the Colorado River, it would be like the Sahara. Right now they have a drought on tp of that with 100 plus degrees. Another problem is people build on the hills. So when there's a fire, it reaches up the sides to the top where everyone wants their house to be.

Slobodan Blagojevic · « **Reply #1058 on:** August 22, 2020, 05:57:48 am »

You guys are still going at it? 1000+ replies?

The science is settled:

Jeremy Roussak · « **Reply #1059 on:** August 22, 2020, 06:43:07 am »

Quote from: Slobodan Blagojevic on August 22, 2020, 05:57:48 am

The science is settled:

Ha!

Jeremy

Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems) (Read 258119 times)