US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Chris Kern]

I sympathize with Trump on this issue -- a guy his size could take forever to get clean in a low-flow shower. He probably could use a fire hose.

Or he could jump in the swamp.  Clearly, it hasn't been drained yet.

[Peter McLennan]

Submitted without comment  Would be superfluous in any case.

Former Republican National Security Advisors (and several others with detailed experience) opine on Trump and why they've decided to vote for Biden.

https://www.defendingdemocracytogether.org/national-security/

[Robert Roaldi]

Clean your floors! https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/513031-trump-criticizes-california-for-wild-fires-youve-got-to-clean-your. Great idea, sweep up all the forest floors in California. How long could it possibly take. (Where would they put it all?) Maybe the Forestry Service should buy a bunch of Dysons, their newest cordless models go a lot longer on a charge.

[Alan Klein]

Clean your floors! https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/513031-trump-criticizes-california-for-wild-fires-youve-got-to-clean-your. Great idea, sweep up all the forest floors in California. How long could it possibly take. (Where would they put it all?) Maybe the Forestry Service should buy a bunch of Dysons, their newest cordless models go a lot longer on a charge.

Trump's hyperbole shows poor Democrat management in California in an election year.  Democrat Speaker Pelosi's San Francisco is being overrun by tent homeless on every street corner. Democrat GOv Newsom has allowed their forests to burn down due to lousy forest management.  Do you expect Democrat Sleepy Joe Biden to manage any better?

[degrub]

Nonsense. It has nothing to do with republican or democrat. It is the result of a century of forest management practice that put out every fire instead of letting the smaller ones burn through and remove the dryfall. We have been paying the price fir that for the last 30 years. And the recent set of droughts has made it worse over a large area of the West.

[kers]

Submitted without comment  Would be superfluous in any case.

Former Republican National Security Advisors (and several others with detailed experience) opine on Trump and why they've decided to vote for Biden.

https://www.defendingdemocracytogether.org/national-security/

That is some list. You could not imagine such a list before Donald Trump became president.

[Alan Klein]

Nonsense. It has nothing to do with republican or democrat. It is the result of a century of forest management practice that put out every fire instead of letting the smaller ones burn through and remove the dryfall. We have been paying the price fir that for the last 30 years. And the recent set of droughts has made it worse over a large area of the West.

Who's responsible for forest management in California?  When I visited the Grand Canyon National Park, I was amazed how the US Forest Service cleaned out all the dryfall.  In between all the fir trees, the were piles of brush that were assembled.  I don't know if they were being left there or were just being readied for complete removal.  But the areas between the trees were clear of brush to prevent future fires that would have burned worse. 

Can't California do similar things in the most dangerous areas?  Instead of wasting billions on silly programs, they might be able to reduce bad fires in some areas at least.  In any case, Trump is pointing out Democrat incompetence with forest management, burning cities due to riots, spikes in crime, cities overrun with the homeless, etc.  Taxpayers want effective management out of their governments. It asks the question. Would you trust Trump or Biden to get things done?

[JoeKitchen]

That's true. They are only in for 4 years and spend two of those campaigning for re-election.
I don't know why they bother as they don't even have an opposition candidate until 6 months out. You'd have to be bad to lose.

Our guys call an election and it can be over in three weeks.

This would be so nice!  Consider yourselves lucky. 

[Alan Klein]

Trump's getting money to the unemployed while Pelosi and the Democrats twiddle their thumbs.

"11 states are preparing to offer $300 extra in unemployment benefits and 8 others are waiting on FEMA’s approval"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/10-states-have-started-to-receive-dollar300-extra-in-unemployment-benefits-%E2%80%94-if-you-live-in-these-states-youre-next-on-the-list/ar-BB188gTg

[Alan Klein]

Trump's getting money to the unemployed while Pelosi and the Democrats twiddle their thumbs.

"11 states are preparing to offer $300 extra in unemployment benefits and 8 others are waiting on FEMA’s approval"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/10-states-have-started-to-receive-dollar300-extra-in-unemployment-benefits-%E2%80%94-if-you-live-in-these-states-youre-next-on-the-list/ar-BB188gTg

The swing states of Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania that helped get Trump elected, have already or will request the extra money that Trump's offering to their states through FEMA that Congress and the Democrats refused to provide before going home for summer vacation.  Meanwhile, Democrat Gov Cuomo of NYS said the following:  “I'd rather do business with the old time bookie on the street corner than do business with FEMA”. I'm sure that will bring out appreciative unemployed Democrats in his state to vote for Biden.

These Are The States That Declined Trump’s Extended Unemployment Benefits
https://www.forbes.com/sites/advisor/2020/08/20/these-are-the-states-that-declined-trumps-extended-unemployment-benefits/#148a667c1976

These States Plan to Expand Unemployment Benefits With Trump's Executive Order
https://www.newsweek.com/these-states-plan-expand-unemployment-benefits-trumps-executive-order-1526443

[Robert Roaldi]

Who's responsible for forest management in California?  When I visited the Grand Canyon National Park, I was amazed how the US Forest Service cleaned out all the dryfall.  In between all the fir trees, the were piles of brush that were assembled.  I don't know if they were being left there or were just being readied for complete removal.  But the areas between the trees were clear of brush to prevent future fires that would have burned worse. 

Can't California do similar things in the most dangerous areas?  Instead of wasting billions on silly programs, they might be able to reduce bad fires in some areas at least.  In any case, Trump is pointing out Democrat incompetence with forest management, burning cities due to riots, spikes in crime, cities overrun with the homeless, etc.  Taxpayers want effective management out of their governments. It asks the question. Would you trust Trump or Biden to get things done?

You're assuming that cleaning the forest floor is actually a good idea and you're assuming that your pinhead president knows anything the subject. He was just using any old made-up excuse to bash a perceived opponent, much as you're doing in his stead. This was just another missed golden opportunity for a politician to have kept his mouth firmly shut. Do you think there aren't any natural disasters in states that did vote for? You politicize viruses, you politicize disasters, it's insulting to read this shit.

[Alan Klein]

You're assuming that cleaning the forest floor is actually a good idea and you're assuming that your pinhead president knows anything the subject. He was just using any old made-up excuse to bash a perceived opponent, much as you're doing in his stead. This was just another missed golden opportunity for a politician to have kept his mouth firmly shut. Do you think there aren't any natural disasters in states that did vote for? You politicize viruses, you politicize disasters, it's insulting to read this shit.

Bringing up poor management of government is fair game in an election.  Aren't the Democrats using the dire situation regarding Covid 19 blaming Trump's management for making the virus situation worse?  Didn't Democrats blame Republican President Bush for FEMA's incompetence during Hurricane Katrina? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[JoeKitchen]

Here's a serious question for the Trump supporters here. I am not trying to play "gotcha" or one-upmanship, but really want to know the answer.

Over 70 former national security advisors to GOP presidents (Reagan, both Bushes, and Trump) have issued a scathing indictment of Trump as a threat to the nation, and announced that they will vote for Biden. Here's one of many reports:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/512954-over-70-of-former-gop-national-security-officials-endorse-biden

How can ANYONE who cares about the country support this man? I just don't get it.

The same experts who said if we move the embassy to Jerusalem all hell will break out.  Embassy was moved and nadda.  The same experts who said if we pull out of the Iran deal all hell would break out.  We pulled out and nadda.  Sure, we had to put down some dirtbag general, which did not start WWIII by the way.  The same experts who for decades told us that that Israel Palestinian conflict was the key to Middle East peace and if we did not solve this, there would be no peace.  Well, after 50+ yeas and 3 generations of displaced Palestinians, the Trump administration decided to state the obvious, they are as much refugees as the grand children of Jews displaced by WWII, which is to say not refugees at all, and Trump just moved on to other common interests. 

And so, after all of this, after all of the "ignorance" towards advisors, Trump just walked away with the first major peace deal in the Middle East in 26 years.  So about those advisors ...

But more to your point, how can I support Trump over Biden?  I'll admit Trump is no Regan, and not my first pick, or second, or third, ... but Biden is no JFK.  Instead I have to look at policy, specifically economic policy.  I voted for Hope and Change in 2008, and in 2009 we got higher taxes, more regulations, higher insurance premiums, and everything else associated with big government.  I then got to watch many business go under and people become anemically unemployed not just due to the recession, but what all of what Hope and Change brought with him.  T'was a total failure, and Biden got a front row seat to the tragedy of his administrations making.  And now ...

Now Biden is calling for the same bad policies that brought on despair for the nation while staring a recession in the face.  Perhaps in January, before all of this, his higher taxes and regulations would have made sense, but not now.  His unwillingness to adjust, and doubling down on, his proposals shows he is not just a bad learner, but is so ideologically bound to the left side of his party, he lacks reason and judgement. 

Say what you will about Trumps rhetoric and personality.  He is spiteful and combative, and waste time on personal spats more then I would like to see, although I would not say crazy or dangerous, but at least the man rethinks and changes his policies when conditions on the ground change.  At least he is not looking at a recession in the face and saying, "lets make it so small businesses have an even harder time after all of this," like Biden is. 

[dreed]

Who's responsible for forest management in California?  When I visited the Grand Canyon National Park, I was amazed how the US Forest Service cleaned out all the dryfall.

Correction: the small amount of GCNP that you visited was clear of dryfall. If on the other hand you visited the entire park, I'd love to know how long it took and how you got around. The section you visited was manicured for visitors and tourists, like yourself.

Can't California do similar things in the most dangerous areas?

Yosemite Valley is also nicely manicured.

National and state parks in California are big and large sections are inaccessible for 5 -9 months of the year - depending on weather.

What you might like to do is ask GCNP what area of the park they manicure (clean up dryfall) and how much it costs them each year to do that. Then we can take that number, agree upon some area of national/state parks in California that are considered dangerous and work out how long/how much it would cost.

You might also like to define what you mean by "dangerous". If dangerous just means an area that hasn't had adequate rainfall to mitigate the risk of a wildfire, that could be a very large area.

Instead of wasting billions on silly programs, they might be able to reduce bad fires in some areas at least.

And get criticized for spending money on sweeping the floor of forests when there are more pressing needs, such as giving companies tax breaks, because who needs money spent on sweeping forest floors?

As for Trump getting things done, it all depends on perspective. Trump got the wall built on the Mexican border. The wind came along and blew it down. All his business dealings show this up. He employs people that he thinks are great then 6 months later fires them and hardly knows who they are. Donald Trump is a con-man. That's how he got to be president: he con'd Americans into believing he would Make America Great Again.

A used car salesman is president of the USA and his supporters think the Sun shines out of his a*** because he isn't a suit from the beltway. (Actually, he wears diapers because he has no control of his bowels or bladder, so no Sun comes out there, just an uncontrollable stream of s**t, like what comes out of his mouth.)

[dreed]

Trump's hyperbole shows poor Democrat management in California in an election year.  Democrat Speaker Pelosi's San Francisco is being overrun by tent homeless on every street corner.

What's the problem with this? Do you want to deny the poor the ability to choose how to live their own life? One of the very few choices that they are able to make?

[Alan Klein]

...

A used car salesman is president of the USA and his supporters think the Sun shines out of his a*** because he isn't a suit from the beltway. (Actually, he wears diapers because he has no control of his bowels or bladder, so no Sun comes out there, just an uncontrollable stream of s**t, like what comes out of his mouth.)

When you resort to vile and insulting language, you lose me.  So I won't waste time responding to your other points.

[dreed]

I sympathize with Trump on this issue -- a guy his size could take forever to get clean in a low-flow shower. He probably could use a fire hose.

Donald Trump spends 2 hours every day getting his makeup done.

[dreed]

When you resort to vile and insulting language, you lose me.

Question is, is calling Donald Trump a used car salesman insulting Donald Trump or the used car salesmen? Tough call to make, that one.

As for the diaper issue, that's not an insult, it's a fact. Go looking on the Internet and you'll find pictures of leakage problems.

Don't worry, the pictures of the leakage look much more vile than how the words read.

So I won't waste time responding to your other points.

The rest of my points require facts, not opinions, for a worthwhile discussion.

[jeremyrh]

And so, after all of this, after all of the "ignorance" towards advisors, Trump just walked away with the first major peace deal in the Middle East in 26 years.  So about those advisors ...

Yes, after this peace deal the UAE are not shooting at the Israelis.

Oh ... hang on a mo ...

They never were.

Still - great deal !!

[William Walker]

Alan, please do a quick character assassination on this guy and tell me what he wrote is not true.

I am so confused between what you say about Trump and all these other folks...

"Quid pro quo:Trump's clemency for Roger Stone is an admission of the president's guilt in Russia probe

This level of criminality surrounding a president is unparalleled. We have not seen its like in American history before (though perhaps Richard Nixon comes close)."
- Paul Rosenzweig, a senior fellow in the National Security and Cyber Security Program at the R Street Institute, was senior counsel to Kenneth Starr in the Whitewater investigation and a deputy assistant secretary of Homeland Security in the George W. Bush administration.