US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[faberryman]

The USPS has already opined on this and the opinion is not in favor of mail in voting. 

There are two types of mail for letters, first class and marketing class, and under normal circumstances it takes 2 to 3 days and 4 to 7 days for first and marketing class to reach its destination, respectively.  Now, since it would be considered voter suppression if you required people to buy their own stamp and/or forcing people to pay to vote (which will be viewed as a racial issue by the Dems), all mail in ballots will come with a pre-stamped envelopes.  It is almost certainly the case the states will be using marketing class.  Marketing class is almost half the price of first class and will save a lot of money (I know from my own business), and since government always takes the cheapest way out I doubt this will be different.  Marketing class postage also can only be printed on the envelope (they do not make marketing class stamps), which are almost never post marked.  This makes it impossible to know when they were mailed. 

Now, with the pandemic, these delivery times may have been extended in certain areas (that are constantly changing based on conditions on the ground) due to variety of issues, some of which will not be fixed by merely throwing money at them.  You combine that with most states requiring that ballots be received by election day, at the latest, but no more then four days beforehand, and the whole thing is destined to become a mess. 

If you mail early to make sure you votes gets in in an area where the mail has not been effected, it may be received too early and invalidated.  If you mail it in on time but suddenly there is a delay in your area, your vote may get invalidated by being received too late.  Then combine that with the large number of people who will forget to sign and a lot of ballots will be thrown out this year. 

Like I said, if you want to go down this road, be my guest.  Many more Dems plan on voting by mail then Republicans, and after the NYC primary and Iowa caucus it really seems like the Democrats need to learn the hard way.

I am not sure what road you think I want to go down, if any.

[TechTalk]

Many more Dems plan on voting by mail then Republicans, and after the NYC primary and Iowa caucus it really seems like the Democrats need to learn the hard way.

The Democratic Party has been learning the hard way about Republican Party voter suppression tactics for many years.

[JoeKitchen]

I am not sure what road you think I want to go down, if any.

And by we, you mean the Dems (which by association you admit you are)? 

[JoeKitchen]

The Democratic Party has been learning the hard way about Republican Party voter suppression tactics for many years.

And yet you did it to yourselves in the recent NYC primaries (21% of all ballots were invalidated) and the Iowa Caucus (do we know who actually won yet?), both fully run by Dems.

Care to try again? 

[TechTalk]

And yet you did it to yourselves in the recent NYC primaries (21% of all ballots were invalidated) and the Iowa Caucus (do we know who actually won yet?), both fully run by Dems.

Care to try again?

If I could make some sense out of your last two posts and how your replies relate to the quotations that you reference, I might.

Care to try again?

[Peter McLennan]

I have nothing further to say to you anymore.  Have a nice day.

hahahahahahahha!

[faberryman]

And by we, you mean the Dems (which by association you admit you are)?

I am not sure who the “we” to whom you are referring is. “We” is not in the post you quoted.

I am neither Republican nor Democrat. I have voted for both in the past. I am not sure who you are associating me with or why. Why do you feel a need to associate me with someone or something?

[TechTalk]

I am not sure who the “we” to whom you are referring is. “We” is not in the post you quoted.

 am neither Republican nor Democrat. I have voted for both in the past. I am not sure who you are associating me with.

I read back thru several posts and I couldn't make out who "we" is either. It made no sense to me at all. Oh well.

[JoeKitchen]

I am not sure who the “we” to whom you are referring is. “We” is not in the post you quoted.

I am neither Republican nor Democrat. I have voted for both in the past. I am not sure who you are associating me with or why. Why do you feel a need to associate me with someone or something?

Okay, good point.  I read your response too fast.  Apologies on my part. 

[JoeKitchen]

How many are willing to bet Trump pardons Edward Snowden Thursday morning, sucking all the oxygen out of the room for Biden's speech that night? 

If you wonder why I think this, Trump was asked about Snowden a last week, saying he would look into it.  Trump, either last night or this morning, announced a major pardon is coming real soon.  Snowden is the only person I can think of that fits that bill and Thursday morning would be the best timing politically.  Not to mention it will go a long way at winning over disgruntled Bernie Bros who have been for the pardon for a long time. 

It would also put Biden in a bad position.  He cant really agree with Trump since that throws Obama under the bus.  If he disagrees, he will be seen as someone who is for an authoritarian state, helping to counter the narrative the Dems have been pushing for years on Trump.  If he remains quiet, although it wont be as bad as denouncing it, it will still hurt him. 

BTW, I consider Obama not pardoning Snowden while commuting the sentence of Manning to be one of the most egregious actions of his administration especially after he ran on having a transparent administration. 

[Robert Roaldi]

How many are willing to bet Trump pardons Edward Snowden Thursday morning, sucking all the oxygen out of the room for Biden's speech that night? 

If you wonder why I think this, Trump was asked about Snowden a last week, saying he would look into it.  Trump, either last night or this morning, announced a major pardon is coming real soon.  Snowden is the only person I can think of that fits that bill and Thursday morning would be the best timing politically.  Not to mention it will go a long way at winning over disgruntled Bernie Bros who have been for the pardon for a long time. 

It would also put Biden in a bad position.  He cant really agree with Trump since that throws Obama under the bus.  If he disagrees, he will be seen as someone who is for an authoritarian state, helping to counter the narrative the Dems have been pushing for years on Trump.  If he remains quiet, although it wont be as bad as denouncing it, it will still hurt him. 

BTW, I consider Obama not pardoning Snowden while commuting the sentence of Manning to be one of the most egregious actions of his administration especially after he ran on having a transparent administration.

Maybe, but I'm cynical about things like that. I think that the number of people who remember who Snowden is rounds to zero.

[JoeKitchen]

Maybe, but I'm cynical about things like that. I think that the number of people who remember who Snowden is rounds to zero.

Not amongst Bernie Bros; my brother is one and it is still a sore issue.  On top of that, there has been an uptick in press about him of late. 

Now of course, I would not be surprised if Trump just decided to pardon General Flynn and shoot himself in the foot.  There's always that possibility too. 

BTW, how did the infomercial go last night? 

[JoeKitchen]

Well damn, I'm wrong.  Wont be Snowden or Flynn. 

Susan B. Anthony, what a flop!

[PeterAit]

 ...but no more then four days beforehand... 

This claim is false. States don't send out absentee ballots before they can be returned and accepted.

[kers]

The government should provide the means for all people to vote at all times. (period)  By mail or whatever under all circumstances.
If not it is not a true democracy.
and it should certainly not put up tresholds to keep people from voting. That attitude belongs to autocracies.

[JoeKitchen]

This claim is false. States don't send out absentee ballots before they can be returned and accepted.

What? 

No, I meant the mail-in ballots in many states can not be received any earlier then 4 days before the election, or they are invalidated, and not after it either.  This was based upon a statement released by the USPS using GA as an example, which is very similar to most other states including my own. 

[faberryman]

How many are willing to bet Trump pardons Edward Snowden Thursday morning, sucking all the oxygen out of the room for Biden's speech that night?

He might as a media stunt, though I don’t think he would pick up up any votes for doing so.

[JoeKitchen]

He might as a media stunt, though I don’t think he would pick up up any votes for doing so.

With Snowden, I would disagree. 

But it's Susan B Anthony, announced earlier today.  Total media stunt and flop. 

[faberryman]

This claim is false. States don't send out absentee ballots before they can be returned and accepted.

I didn’t find that provision in any of the Pennsylvania voting information I looked at either.

[PeterAit]

Off the topic of mail-in voting for a moment -- here's something for those of you who poo-poo the Mueller report about Russia and the 2016 election. This is report from a GOP-led senate committee that describes, in great detail, how the Trump people colluded with the Russians to influence the 2016 election. GOP led committee, please note. This completely corroborates, and expands, what Mueller found. Any of you Trumplets care to justify this or dismiss it as "fake news?" Or maybe you just think it is OK?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/18/us/politics/senate-intelligence-russian-interference-report.html