US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Craig Lamson]

The official slogan of white privilege.

When I go to the doctor with a broken leg, he doesn’t say “don’t fuss about your leg, all bones matter”.

What a racist comment.

[Alan Klein]

The official slogan of white privilege.

When I go to the doctor with a broken leg, he doesn’t say “don’t fuss about your leg, all bones matter”.

The left and Democrats are always playing the race card.  They want to divide people up into voting blocks. Identity politics. You're perpetuating it with that attitude.  All lives matter.  All Americans matter.  We shouldn't play favorites with anyone. That's how we got into this mess in the first place. 

[jeremyrh]

The left and Democrats are always playing the race card.  They want to divide people up into voting blocks. Identity politics. You're perpetuating it with that attitude.  All lives matter.  All Americans matter.  We shouldn't play favorites with anyone. That's how we got into this mess in the first place.

With the slavery thing, you mean?

[faberryman]

The left and Democrats are always playing the race card.  They want to divide people up into voting blocks. Identity politics. You're perpetuating it with that attitude.  All lives matter.  All Americans matter.  We shouldn't play favorites with anyone. That's how we got into this mess in the first place.

Of course the Republicans wouldn’t dream of doing that.

[Alan Klein]

With the slavery thing, you mean?

Slavery and all other discrimination based on race.  The race card is politically effective but very destructive in the long term.

[jeremyrh]

Slavery and all other discrimination based on race.  The race card is politically effective but very destructive in the long term.

Victim blaming par excellence. What you call “the race card” is not a game, it’s the statement that unacceptable inequalities continue to exist.

Tell me something - at what point do you accept responsibility for something?

[PeterAit]

The left and Democrats are always playing the race card.  They want to divide people up into voting blocks. Identity politics. You're perpetuating it with that attitude.  All lives matter.  All Americans matter.  We shouldn't play favorites with anyone. That's how we got into this mess in the first place.

White lives have mattered since the first European set foot in this hemisphere. Black lives, not. They didn't matter at all for 250 years except to the extent they were property with monetary value. And then for another 100 years they didn't matter in much of the country. Black people could be lynched, whipped, burned, shot, raped, and tortured with impunity by the whites. So the slogan Black Lives Matter really means "Black Lives Matter Too" and the people who go around shouting White/All Lives Matter are being disingenuous or just plain stupid.

As for playing favorites, I agree we shouldn't. This country has favored white people, men in particular, since day one and is still doing so. So let's stop.

And the race card? Please. That has been played by the white supremacists for ages. Remember the Willie Horton ads in the 1988 presidential campaign? Dog whistle politics in pure form. How about the "southern strategy" where the GOP used dog whistles and code words such as "states rights" to communicate to white people, particularly in the south, the GOP's willingness to oppose civil rights laws.

And identity politics? That has been Trump's calling card since day 1. The identity is, of course, aggrieved white people who fear that their dominance will end.

[faberryman]

His brother is quite sick and I would not doubt that is wearing on Trump.

Trump’s brother died on Saturday. Trump was at Bedminster playing golf with some famous football player. Nothing Trump could do to help, so no reason to pass up an opportunity to play golf, I guess. He was at the movies when his other brother died.

[hogloff]

All people want to live where it's safe.  All lives matter.

Over the last 15 years, I've visited Portland over 20 times...always felt very safe there. The city has great people, a very nice vibe with unbelievable brew pubs and great concerts in parks all summer. Love it. Probably closest city in the states to what I'd call a typical Canadian city.

[faberryman]

When I hear "all lives matter" I am reminded of George Orwell's line in Animal Farm: All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

[BernardLanguillier]

You guys are wasting time debating Russia when the real topic today is how Trump is doing everything he can to bias the elections by preventing mail voting.

Odds are that his plan is to keep the pandemic active as long as he can in order to ensure that as many people as possible don’t go physically to vote out of covid concerns while making sure that USPS is depowered and unable to process the mail voting that’s largely pro-Democrat.

That’s as close as possible to large scale voting forgery and is unheard of in any democratic country as far as I know.

Cheers,
Bernard

[faberryman]

You guys are wasting time debating Russia when the real topic today is how Trump is doing everything he can to bias the elections by preventing mail voting.

You are right. My wife and I have discussed it and will be voting in person during early voting when the lines are short. It is too important to place your trust in the mail given what is currently going on with the USPS.

[Chris Kern]

You guys are wasting time debating Russia when the real topic today is how Trump is doing everything he can to bias the elections by preventing mail voting.

It now seems obvious that when Trump tweeted

2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great embarrassment to the USA.

he was once again speaking "aspirationally."  In other words, that is his goal rather than his prediction.

[Craig Lamson]

You are right. My wife and I have discussed it and will be voting in person during early voting when the lines are short. It is too important to place your trust in the mail given what is currently going on with the USPS.

People have no problem going to Home Depot, Best Buy, the cell phone store, the pharmacy, the grocery, heck even restaurants around me are as full as they can be.  So what’s the problem with going to vote?  Or is this just another liberal wet dream, let no crisis go to waste to achieve your goals?

[Alan Klein]

You guys are wasting time debating Russia when the real topic today is how Trump is doing everything he can to bias the elections by preventing mail voting.

Odds are that his plan is to keep the pandemic active as long as he can in order to ensure that as many people as possible don’t go physically to vote out of covid concerns while making sure that USPS is depowered and unable to process the mail voting that’s largely pro-Democrat.

That’s as close as possible to large scale voting forgery and is unheard of in any democratic country as far as I know.

Cheers,
Bernard

Politics is being played on both sides.  The Democrats are pushing mail-in voting because they know there's no enthusiasm for the democrat ticket.  People aren't going to stand in lines to vote for Biden and HArris.  But if all you have to do is check off a ballot at home and drop it in the mail, you don;t need too much enthusiasm.  Of course, Trump see this from his standpoint and is against mail-in.

Personally, I intend to mail in my vote.  However, according to law, I already have requested my local election board send me mail-in ballot.  Trump agrees that this is OK. 

What concerns him and should concern others, that the Democrats want to have every election board automatically send out ballots to everyone who listed on the election rolls.  The problem with that is that election rolls are not up to date. Dead people are still on them years after they died.  I'm still on my local election rolls in NYC even though I moved to New Jersey 7 years ago. I never told them I moved nor does anyone else when they move.  So I would get two ballots to vote: one from New Jersey and one from New York.  Of course, the ballot might not arrive because the post office won't forward it after a year of moving.  So it will float around.  But if I only just moved within the last twelve months, I would have get two ballots. 

Although it's illegal to vote in two states or more than once even  in the same state, there are millions of people on more than one voting roll because they moved.  Without specifically asking to vote by mail like my wife and I did, sending ballots out to everyone blindly is going to create another Florida chad problem like what happened in 2000.  This election will be contested throughout the country not just in the state of Florida.  It'll be a mess.

[BernardLanguillier]

People have no problem going to Home Depot, Best Buy, the cell phone store, the pharmacy, the grocery, heck even restaurants around me are as full as they can be.  So what’s the problem with going to vote?  Or is this just another liberal wet dream, let no crisis go to waste to achieve your goals?

So not being afraid of covid19 becomes a condition to be allowed to vote?

Not to mention the anticonstitutionnality of this approach that’s incredibly shocking for a republican administration, we are right at the point where the US stops to be a democracy. In front of our eyes.

The only precedent in the past 100 years of a democratic state turning into a dictatorship is Germany.

And you seem to like the idea that the US is coming next.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Alan Klein]

So not being afraid of covid19 becomes a condition to be allowed to vote?

Not to mention the anticonstitutionnality of this approach that’s incredibly shocking for a republican administration, we are right at the point where the US stops to be a democracy. In front of our eyes.

The only precedent in the past 100 years of a democratic state turning into a dictatorship is Germany.

And you seem to like the idea that the US is coming next.

Cheers,
Bernard

See my last post.  There's nothing wrong with mail-in voting if you request the ballot.  Trump agrees with this method.  In fact that's how he votes.

It's just that mailing out ballots to everyone on the election rolls is a problem because everyone who's moved would be on more than one roll.  There would be multiple ballots going to the same people and then multiple votes.  You can't have people voting twice.  There would be challenges in all 50 states against the counts. We'd have to recount the entire country. 

[Manoli]

Looking good, boys, looking good.

“... a weekend of violent clashes across America, reflecting a rise in serious crime in US cities and an increasingly febrile political atmosphere before November’s presidential election. “



John Amis/EPA

There has been a surge in killings in New York since June. As of yesterday morning at least five people had died from shootings in the city. Between midnight on Friday and 5pm on Saturday 40 people were the victims of gun violence, the police said. In one incident an unidentified man fired ten rounds from the street through a Bronx apartment window.

In Cincinnati, Ohio, 18 people were shot in the early hours yesterday, at least four of them fatally. Ten of them were shot in a single event.

[Alan Klein]

So not being afraid of covid19 becomes a condition to be allowed to vote?

Not to mention the anticonstitutionnality of this approach that’s incredibly shocking for a republican administration, we are right at the point where the US stops to be a democracy. In front of our eyes.

The only precedent in the past 100 years of a democratic state turning into a dictatorship is Germany.

And you seem to like the idea that the US is coming next.

Cheers,
Bernard

I guess New Zealand is becoming Germany too.

New Zealand Election Postponed Amid New Coronavirus Outbreak
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the September national election scheduled would be delayed by four weeks, citing voter safety and a lockdown in Auckland that would make it difficult to campaign.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/world/asia/new-zealand-election-coronavirus.html

[jeremyrh]

I guess New Zealand is becoming Germany too.

New Zealand Election Postponed Amid New Coronavirus Outbreak
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the September national election scheduled would be delayed by four weeks, citing voter safety and a lockdown in Auckland that would make it difficult to campaign.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/world/asia/new-zealand-election-coronavirus.html

Do you ever read the stuff you link to?  I guess I already know the answer to that, but if you (hypothetically) had done so you would know that this was a change that is within the timeframe specified, it was agreed with other parties, and that it was a change that Ardern had been unwilling to make.

In fact of all world leaders, the one who's least like Trump or Hitler is probably Jacinda Ardern.