US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Klein]

Rod Rosenstein was appointed and confirmed as the United States Attorney for the District of Maryland on July 12, 2005 by George W Bush. He served in that position until April 26, 2017.

Trump appointed him to be United States Deputy Attorney General and he took that position on the same day he resigned as a US Attorney.

So how is he a holdover (or leftover) from the Obama administration?

While it's true that Bush originally hired him as a fed attorney,  he was the only one left that Obama didn't fire. And there were and are many republican insiders like him who frankly never liked Trump and tried to destroy him.  Rosenstein wanted to secretly record conversations of the president in the oval office to see if they could come up with something to remove Trump from office.   He was the one who appointed Mueller to go after Trump.  If he was a friend of Trump, who needs enemies.

[Alan Klein]

It was all a setup by Putin and Russian intelligence to interfere in a US Presidential election and create division and suspicion among the citizens and electorate in the US; now quickly being "forgotten" because Trump and his administration are doing their best to ignore that fact and divert attention from it and right-wing media are in on it.

No one's denying what the Russians did.  But you're trying to distract us from the real issue. The Obama Administration, Hillary Clinton (Steele and her dossier), FBI, and CIA, used the secret and powerful tools of government to illegally go after a candidate and subsequently tried to get rid of a sitting president of the United States.  FBI and other officials conspired and broke he law in the process. That's not tiddlywinks.

[faberryman]

Why don’t you elaborate then.

When I said I think "we can walk and chew gum at the same time" I meant "we can do two things at once", and, in the context of your comment, "we can address both Russian hacking and looting at the same time." I disagree with your premise that the looting is the bigger fish. If you don't believe the looting is being handled properly, ask Alan to explain federalism to you, you know, when it is all over we can sit down and compare notes and decide which of several approaches is best. From what I gather about the argument, that is at least a year out. My own view is that if that is federalism, perhaps there is a better way. I would take a more competence oriented approach.

[faberryman]

No one's denying what the Russians did.

Trump is.

But you're trying to distract us from the real issue. The Obama Administration, Hillary Clinton (Steele and her dossier), FBI, and CIA, used the secret and powerful tools of government to illegally go after a candidate and subsequently tried to get rid of a sitting president of the United States.  FBI and other officials conspired and broke he law in the process. That's not tiddlywinks.

Alan, quick, there is someone peering in at you from your front window. Boo!

By the way, when is Bill Barr going to round up all the co-conspirators in Pizzagate and QAnon. You would have thought those would have been a top priority. As far as I can tell, he has't done diddly squat.

[Craig Lamson]

When I said I think "we can walk and chew gum at the same time" I meant "we can do two things at once", and, in the context of your comment, "we can address both Russian hacking and looting at the same time." I disagree with your premise that the looting is the bigger fish. If you don't believe the looting is being handled properly, ask Alan to explain federalism to you, you know, when it is all over we can sit down and compare notes and decide which of several approaches is best. From what I gather about the argument, that is at least a year out. My own view is that if that is federalism, perhaps there is a better way. I would take a more competence oriented approach.

So when are we going to start deailing with the law and order issues if you think we can walk and chew gum at the same time?  Even when we try to deal wiht it on a Federal level (where we can) that too is denyed and reviled. So no, it does not appear we can walk and chew gum at the same time.  Russia, yet another smoke screen, in my opinion.

[faberryman]

So when are we going to start deailing with the law and order issues if you think we can walk and chew gum at the same time?  Even when we try to deal wiht it on a Federal level (where we can) that too is denyed and reviled. So no, it does not appear we can walk and chew gum at the same time.  Russia, yet another smoke screen, in my opinion.

I think you'll have to ask Trump about that. If he thought he was doing the right thing by sending federal officers to Portland, for example, he shouldn't have pulled them out even in the face of criticism. I think he saw it was a PR disaster, and cut bait. If you think Russian hacking is a smoke screen, you should be happy that Trump isn't doing anything about it.

About the denying and reviling, from what I hear around here, that's coming from the radical left wing. Surely Trump is not bowing to pressure from the radical left wing.

[James Clark]

No one's denying what the Russians did.  But you're trying to distract us from the real issue. The Obama Administration, Hillary Clinton (Steele and her dossier), FBI, and CIA, used the secret and powerful tools of government to illegally go after a candidate and subsequently tried to get rid of a sitting president of the United States.  FBI and other officials conspired and broke he law in the process. That's not tiddlywinks.

Everyone knows Russia is trying to help Trump, Trump campaign officials are already known to work on other matters for Russia, and it’s wrong of the FBI to check to see if the Trump campaign is playing along?   Have I got that right? 

[Alan Klein]

Everyone knows Russia is trying to help Trump, Trump campaign officials are already known to work on other matters for Russia, and it’s wrong of the FBI to check to see if the Trump campaign is playing along?   Have I got that right? 

What the Russians did was a figleaf justification for illegal activities and an attempted soft coup. The FBI illegally conspired to phony up evidence to deceive the FISA court to get subpoenas to spy on the Trump campaign and stir up trouble for him.  The Obama administration not only knew about this but was up to their eyeballs in monitoring it.  They certainly approved the surveillance.  The country was saddled with over two years of political intrigue that damaged a president's ability to deal with America's affairs and hurt foreign policy considerations in dealing with a major power. It damaged the reputations and respect for the FBI, CIA, and DOJ. We'll never know the entire truth of what happened especially if Biden wins in November.  He'll bury all the facts as Hillary was suppose to do when she was expected to win in 2016. 

[faberryman]

What the Russians did was a figleaf justification for illegal activities and an attempted soft coup. The FBI illegally conspired to phony up evidence to deceive the FISA court to get subpoenas to spy on the Trump campaign and stir up trouble for him.  The Obama administration not only knew about this but was up to their eyeballs in monitoring it.  They certainly approved the surveillance.  The country was saddled with over two years of political intrigue that damaged a president's ability to deal with America's affairs and hurt foreign policy considerations in dealing with a major power. It damaged the reputations and respect for the FBI, CIA, and DOJ. We'll never know the entire truth of what happened especially if Biden wins in November.  He'll bury all the facts as Hillary was suppose to do when she was expected to win in 2016.

You really have to move out of New Jersey so your vote for Trump will count. I mean if it is that important and all. Otherwise, you are pretty much limited to trying to convince a couple of guys on the internet that your viewpoint is the correct one.

[Alan Klein]

You really have to move out of New Jersey so your vote for Trump will count. I mean if it is that important and all. Otherwise, you are pretty much limited to trying to convince a couple of guys on the internet that your viewpoint is the correct one.

No one ever changes their mind here.  It's like arguing to a Canon user to switch to Nikon.  😀

[Craig Lamson]

I think you'll have to ask Trump about that. If he thought he was doing the right thing by sending federal officers to Portland, for example, he shouldn't have pulled them out even in the face of criticism. I think he saw it was a PR disaster, and cut bait. If you think Russian hacking is a smoke screen, you should be happy that Trump isn't doing anything about it.

About the denying and reviling, from what I hear around here, that's coming from the radical left wing. Surely Trump is not bowing to pressure from the radical left wing.

Of course its Trumps fault, why did I even ask?  Sheesh. 

[Craig Lamson]

The heck with the Russians, maybe we should be more concerned with the FBI....

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/512152-democrats-continue-to-denounce-investigation-of-the-investigators

[faberryman]

Of course its Trumps fault, why did I even ask?  Sheesh.

Well it’s got to be someone’s fault if it is not being handled appropriately. Trump claims he is “the law and order President”, so if you think there is a law and order problem, you might as well ask him about it first, and work your way down. It may be a local problem that the local police chiefs are out of their depth. Or you could skip all that and blame left wing radicals or Democrats in general. 

I don’t know what the best method is for controlling protesters within the law. I am certainly no expert. What the federal government did in Portland didn’t look like it was working out that well, so maybe try something else. The method used to clear out Lafayette Park was effective, but looked a little over the top, but was still better than Trump releasing the “vicious dogs” from the White House. Vicious dogs isn’t really a good look. The National Guard and local police handled things pretty well at Stone Mountain yesterday. At least nobody got killed, which was a minor miracle given the number of protesters toting their AR15s. At a protest in Louisville a couple of weeks ago, a protester accidentally shot three of his buddies. At least it didn’t spur a fire fight.

What are your ideas?

[Alan Klein]

Well it’s got to be someone’s fault if it is not being handled appropriately. Trump claims he is “the law and order President”, so if you think there is a law and order problem, you might as well ask him about it first, and if you are satisfied with his answer, work your way down. It may be a local problem that the local police chiefs are out of their depth. Or you could skip all that and blame left wing radicals or Democrats in general. 

I don’t know what the best method is for controlling protesters within the law. I am certainly no expert. What the federal government did in Portland didn’t look like it was working out that well, so maybe try something else. The method used to clear out Lafayette Park was effective, but looked a little over the top, but was still better than Trump releasing the “vicious dogs” from the White House. Vicious dogs isn’t really a good look. The National Guard and local police handled things pretty well at Stone Mountain yesterday. At least nobody got killed, which was a minor miracle given the number of protesters toting their AR15s.

What are your ideas?

Things will calm down after the election. 

[Craig Lamson]

Well it’s got to be someone’s fault if it is not being handled appropriately. Trump claims he is “the law and order President”, so if you think there is a law and order problem, you might as well ask him about it first, and work your way down. It may be a local problem that the local police chiefs are out of their depth. Or you could skip all that and blame left wing radicals or Democrats in general. 

I don’t know what the best method is for controlling protesters within the law is. I am certainly no expert. What the federal government did in Portland didn’t look like it was working out that well, so maybe try something else. The method used to clear out Lafayette Park was effective, but looked a little over the top, but was still better than Trump releasing the “vicious dogs” from the White House. Vicious dogs isn’t really a good look. The National Guard and local police handled things pretty well at Stone Mountain yesterday. At least nobody got killed, which was a minor miracle given the number of protesters toting their AR15s. At a protest in Louisville a couple of weeks ago, a protester accidentally shot three of his buddies. At least it didn’t spur a fire fight.

What are your ideas?

Well the best the feds could do in Portland was try and protect federal property.  They were quite restrained given wha they faced.  And they left because the left was going nuts.  I suspect they will be back unless now that the State police have said screw it.

My ideas, elect people in local goverment that are not nutjobs and then hold people accountable.  80 days of riots in Portland...really?  Let the feds help.  But thats not going to happen anytime soon in the left wing states and cities.

So instead we watch the country burn....

[Alan Klein]

Who's going to open a business in Portland? If it is not careful, and allows lawlessness,  it'll wind up like Detroit. People want to live where it's safe.

[jeremyrh]

Who's going to open a business in Portland? If it is not careful, and allows lawlessness,  it'll wind up like Detroit. People want to live where it's safe.

Absolutely. You don’t want to open a business where the customers are liable to be lifted off the streets by little green men in unmarked cars.

[Alan Klein]

Absolutely. You don’t want to open a business where the customers are liable to be lifted off the streets by little green men in unmarked cars.

All people want to live where it's safe.  All lives matter.

[faberryman]

My ideas, elect people in local goverment that are not nutjobs and then hold people accountable.

You might want to take a look at your local ballot. If it is anything like mine, you'll conclude there is no truth in the saying "cream rises to the top." You'll drive yourself to distraction if you can't tolerate a little incompetence in your life. Just practice rolling your eyes to get in shape.

So instead we watch the country burn....

When I read that, I could hear Reagan in my head saying: "There you go again."

[jeremyrh]

  All lives matter.

The official slogan of white privilege.

When I go to the doctor with a broken leg, he doesn’t say “don’t fuss about your leg, all bones matter”.