US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Klein]

Hillary can also cook?

Apparently,  her mother-in-law was teaching her to be a chef.

[Craig Lamson]

I invite you to re-read my post. Perhaps you could respond to it.

What did I miss?  That if Republicians had a good case they would have tried to use it?  They did, but they did not have a good case.  I thought we discussed that somewhere.

[faberryman]

What did I miss?  That if Republicians had a good case they would have tried to use it?  They did, but they did not have a good case.  I thought we discussed that somewhere.

If you acknowledge that they didn't have a good case, why are you linking to the kooky internet lady's so called analysis of the citizenship issue? If you are going with something kooky, at least go with a kooky lawyer, to wit: the recent op-ed in Newsweek which started the argument anew. Please note that when it was originally published, it did not have the two paragraph introductory non-apology, acknowledging the opinion piece was a load of bullshit.

https://www.newsweek.com/some-questions-kamala-harris-about-eligibility-opinion-1524483

Since then, Newsweek has seen the light, and in order to save their reputation from going further into the toilet than it has been recently under its new management, and to prevent all of its employees from resigning in protest, they got a real lawyer to explain things.

https://www.newsweek.com/born-us-kamala-harris-eligible-become-vice-president-opinion-1525031

The fact is that no serious person believes the birther "argument" and the reason we haven't heard SCOTUS address it directly is that the kooks who brought cases in the lower courts got their asses handed to them on a platter, even they saw that it was a complete waste of time and money to file an appeal from which decision they could take an appeal to SCOTUS, which they would certainly lose, and realized that there were still plenty of idiots on the internet they could convince a load of bullshit was true, and it wouldn't cost them a dime. Why they derive some sense of satisfaction or accomplishment from convincing a bunch of idiots that a load of bullshit is true is anybody's guess. Actually it's not. Everyone one knows the reason, but we don't discuss it out loud.

By the way, if you think slavery has been abolished, just read the Supreme Court decision in Dred Scott. If you are still confused, I am sure the kooky internet lady can explain it to you.

.

[Alan Klein]

Apparently,  her mother-in-law was teaching her to be a chef.

Well, it seems we're never going to learn what was in those recipes.

Appeals court nixes Hillary Clinton deposition on emails
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/14/hillary-clinton-emails-deposition-overturned-395361

[Craig Lamson]

If you acknowledge that they didn't have a good case, why are you linking to the kooky internet lady's so called analysis of the citizenship issue? If you are going with something kooky, at least go with a kooky lawyer, to wit the op-ed in Newsweek which restarted the argument. Please note that when it was originally published, it did not have the two paragraph introductory non-apology, acknowledging the opinion piece was a load of bullshit.

https://www.newsweek.com/some-questions-kamala-harris-about-eligibility-opinion-1524483

Since then, Newsweek has seen the light, and in order to save their reputation from going further into the toilet than it has been recently under its new management, and to prevent all of its employees from resigning in protest, they got a real lawyer to explain things.

https://www.newsweek.com/born-us-kamala-harris-eligible-become-vice-president-opinion-1525031

The fact is that no serious person believes the birther "argument" and the reason we haven't heard SCOTUS address it directly is that the kooks who brought cases in the lower courts got their asses handed to them on a platter, even they saw that it was a complete waste of time and money to file an appeal from which decision they could take an appeal to SCOTUS, which they would certainly lose, and realized that there were still plenty of idiots on the internet they could convince a load of bullshit was true, and it wouldn't cost them a dime. Why they derive some sense of satisfaction or accomplishment from convincing a bunch of idiots that a load of bullshit is true is anybody's guess. Actually it's not. Everyone one knows the reason, but we don't discuss it out loud.

.

If you look back you will see I don't really care about the issue.  I posted a link to start the conversation.  It offered a counterpoint to the arguement that there is no case.  Now we can argue the claims are bull and that there is no case but the Obama case is different than the Harris case in that at least Obama had a mother that was a citizen. Harris, not so much.  And my other point stands. Until this is litigated and gets to the Supreme Court...and they rule...it will continue to be an issue.  The fact that it has not been to this point in no way makes the claims go away or makes them junk, just because some journalist or professor says its so.  Lots of reason a case gets tossed and yet somewhere, sometime some judge will let it proceed, and we will get a ruling.

Lets put your shoe back on your foot.  So if this is such a loser and a kook theory why not litigate it and see where it goes.  Surely it can be defeated soundly and the issue can be put to rest.  Perhaps we just have cowardly judges who just don't want to stick their necks out.  Who knows.  The issue will be back again, bet on it. Its bipartisan.

Now on to Newsweak.

I just gotta love that they frame this argument over the meaning of the consitiution and the 14 amemdment as racist and xenophobic. Of course they do.  What a crock, especially since this argument was used against Ted Cruz and John McCain.  Newsweek is simply a tool in the ongoing racist bullsnit being pushed in this country to try and discredit those who have a diffferent opinion and maybe more importantily a different political party. They like so many others are afraid of thoughts and speech that goes against their beliefs. 

[faberryman]

So if this is such a loser and a kook theory why not litigate it and see where it goes.  Surely it can be defeated soundly and the issue can be put to rest.

For the same reason no one has done so before; it would be a colossal waste of time and money. You?

Newsweek is simply a tool in the ongoing racist bullsnit being pushed in this country to try and discredit those who have a diffferent opinion and maybe more importantily a different political party.

I think Newsweek is owned by a couple of right wingers, which might explain why they ran the op-ed in the first place. I'll have a cup of coffee and see whether I feel like chasing down the details.

[Craig Lamson]

For the same reason no one has done so before; it would be a colossal waste of time and money. You?

Its a waste put to rest a question like this?  So much better to just let it fester I guess.  Or perhaps some might be afraid to open that can of worms?  I'm going for the can of works.  Time and money are easy to overcome. 

[faberryman]

Its a waste put to rest a question like this?  So much better to just let it fester I guess.

The question is not at rest with only a small subset of the public. I think it not improbable that even if the Supreme Court ruled on it, such subset would think it was wrongly decided and it would continue to fester with them.

Time and money are easy to overcome.

Apparently that's not the case with this issue.

My grandmother thought the moon landing was fake. I didn't try to convince her otherwise. Maybe she was right.

[Alan Klein]

For the same reason no one has done so before; it would be a colossal waste of time and money. You?
...

You mean like the whole Russian accusation against Trump that cost $30 million for Mueller and side tracked the entire country on a political witch hunt for over two years? By the way, an anti-Trump FBI lawyer just pleaded guilty for lying that helped kick off the whole charade.  There are loads of others involved but they'll all go away if Biden gets elected.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/14/politics/fbi-russia-clinesmith/index.html

[faberryman]

You mean like the whole Russian accusation against Trump that cost $30 million for Mueller and side tracked the entire country on a political witch hunt for over two years? By the way, an anti-Trump FBI lawyer just pleaded guilty for lying that helped kick off the whole charade.  There are loads of others involved but they'll all go away if Biden gets elected.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/14/politics/fbi-russia-clinesmith/index.html

Someone thought it was worth the time and money. As I recall, it was Rod Rosenstein, Trump’s Deputy AG, who appointed Mueller and gave him the green light to investigate the issue.

The truth is Trump got exactly what he wanted: something he could bitch and moan about all day, every day, for years, and keep his base riled up. Here, look at me, I am the greatest victim in the history of the world. Nobody has ever been a victim as great as me.

I know you care. Who else cares? Is this even an issue for 2020? Haven't heard much about it lately. Every once in a while Barr will hint at an October surprise. I'm not sure how many people are sitting on the edge of their chairs waiting for new developments. I suspect most people are hoping they won't get sick and wondering how they can pay the rent, not whether the Steele dossier was mentioned in a footnote of a FISA application to conduct surveillance on Carter Page. Carter who? Oh, yeah, that guy didn't seem to be the brightest light in the harbor, did he?

[Alan Klein]

Someone thought it was worth the time and money. As I recall, it was Rod Rosenstein, Trump’s Deputy AG, who appointed Mueller and gave him the green light to investigate the issue.

Rosenstein was a leftover from Obama's administration.  In any case, if the FBI, CIA, Obama administration, Hillary Clinton, etc didn't cahoot and lie about the whole thing, Rosenstein would not have set up any investigation.  It was all a setup now quickly being "forgotten" because the left-wing anti-Trump media was in on it. 

[faberryman]

Rosenstein was a leftover from Obama's administration.  In any case, if the FBI, CIA, Obama administration, Hillary Clinton, etc didn't cahoot and lie about the whole thing, Rosenstein would not have set up any investigation.  It was all a setup now quickly being "forgotten" because the left-wing anti-Trump media was in on it.

Well, there is always Fox News to keep the issue alive. They seem to lead pretty consistently in the ratings. Rush Limbaugh has a really big audience of devoted followers. Mega dittos and all that. Then there is Breitbart and Infowars. I am sure there are other conservative voices in the media. I just don't keep up with them much. The "left-wing anti-Trump media" has moved on, so you guys have the field to yourselves. Frankly, I don't know what you are complaining about. Take advantage of the vacuum. Hammer the message home relentlessly. Unless of course Trump's base is sick and tired of hearing about it, and has moved on to groceries and masks. I think there are probably all lot of people who are burned out about everything, and can't summon the energy to feel aggrieved. And they can't figure out how they are really better off with Trump in the oval office.

Speaking of worn out, have you seen Trump in these daily press briefings lately reading out of a notebook in a monotone. It looks like they have him on tranquilizers. His doctors probably thought he was so angry about everything all the time that he might spontaneously combust.

[Alan Klein]

Well, there is always Fox News to keep the issue alive. They seem to pretty consistently lead in the ratings. Rush Limbaugh has a really big audience of devoted followers. Mega dittos and all that. Then there is Breitbart and Infowars. I am sure there are other conservative voices in the media. I just don't keep up with them much. The "left-wing anti-Trump media" has moved on, so you guys have the field to yourselves. Frankly, I don't know what you are complaining about. Take advantage of the vacuum. Unless of course Trump's base is sick and tired of hearing about it, and has moved on to groceries and masks.

What goes around comes around.

[faberryman]

What goes around comes around.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. Do you mean that Fox et al are going to crucify Biden and Harris. Maybe, but who is going to bother to turn on the TV to listen to it. If it will make you feel better that you are getting revenge, you are welcome to it. I guess we all take pleasure where we can find it.

[Alan Klein]

I'm not sure I know what you mean by that. Do you mean that Fox et al are going to crucify Biden and Harris. Maybe, but who is going to bother to turn on the TV to listen to it. If it will make you feel better that you are getting revenge, you are welcome to it.

The Democrats, FBI, CIA, and the Obama administration used the security services and courts of the US government to go after a political opponents like we are a third world country.  One day they'll get a taste of their own medicine. 

[faberryman]

The Democrats, FBI, CIA, and the Obama administration used the security services and courts of the US government to go after a political opponents like we are a third world country.  One day they'll get a taste of their own medicine.

Is that a good thing? Sort of sounds like the attitude of someone in kindergarten. One alternative is that if mistakes were made, we could learn from them, and not repeat them in the future. That's probably asking too much.

[TechTalk]

The Democrats, FBI, CIA, and the Obama administration used the security services and courts of the US government to go after a political opponents like we are a third world country.  One day they'll get a taste of their own medicine.

US intelligence agencies investigated Russia treating the US like a third world country by attacking and interfering in a US Presidential election. One day, Russia may have to answer for that, but not under a Trump administration.

[PeterAit]

The Democrats, FBI, CIA, and the Obama administration used the security services and courts of the US government to go after a political opponents like we are a third world country.  One day they'll get a taste of their own medicine.

Utter and abysmal nonsense. Alan, where do you people come up with this folderol? Fox? Breitbart? 4-Chan? Washington Times? It's like debating tectonic theory with a flat earther.

[TechTalk]

Rosenstein was a leftover from Obama's administration.

Rod Rosenstein was appointed and confirmed as the United States Attorney for the District of Maryland on July 12, 2005 by George W Bush. He served in that position until April 26, 2017.

Trump appointed him to be United States Deputy Attorney General and he took that position on the same day he resigned as a US Attorney.

So how is he a holdover (or leftover) from the Obama administration?

[TechTalk]

It was all a setup now quickly being "forgotten" because the left-wing anti-Trump media was in on it.

It was all a setup by Putin and Russian intelligence to interfere in a US Presidential election and create division and suspicion among the citizens and electorate in the US; now quickly being "forgotten" because Trump and his administration are doing their best to ignore that fact and divert attention from it and right-wing media are in on it.