US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[James Clark]

If that’s the case James, where can we find a decision by the Supreme Court that defines Natural Born?  The 14th, clearly does not deal with it.  It leaves that question wide open.   Clearly Harris is a citizen by birth, based on the place she was born.  That is not in question.  The requirements of the Constitution for the office of the President (and Vice President by extension) are quite specific.  It does not state “citizen” but rather Natural Born Citizen.  That’s a rather big distinction.  Nowhere in any later amendment was that requirement changed to “citizen”. While the SC cases listed in that article were not related to Presidential elections, they do define the term Natural Born.

Somewhere, sometime the issue needs to be resolved.  It’s now simply a he said she said kind of argument and it won’t go away until it’s litigated and ultimately decided by SCOTUS.  People can argue this to death, and I suspect they will.

You see this distinction in the requirements to be a Congressperson where the eligibility is granted upon being a citizen for x years.  In neither case is parentage referred to.

[James Clark]

I think we've known this for ... what ... 5 years now.  How are you still surprised by this?  I'm surely not.  It's like waking up in the morning and being amazed the sun had risen that day, as if you were not sure it would the night before.

Not surprised.  Just continually disappointed, because I think this is kind of important for someone tasked with the stewardship of that legacy to understand.

[Chris Kern]

I am sure that if the Trump campaign or other interested parties believe this is a serious issue, they will bring a lawsuit so that it can be properly adjudicated, and not content themselves with  arguing about it in the media and on the internet.

There is no plausible legal theory that could serve as the basis of a litigable claim that Kamala Harris is ineligible to serve as president or vice president.

[JoeKitchen]

Not surprised.  Just continually disappointed, because I think this is kind of important for someone tasked with the stewardship of that legacy to understand.

Well, yes, I think that "continually disappointed" would work for me as well. 

I have no aspirations that his rhetoric is even acceptable, just that Biden's policies are totally destructive to the economy.  We  are staring a depression in the face and Biden is talking about $4T in new taxes and increase regulations.  It did not work in 2009 and wont work in 2021. 

Pretty easy decision to make. 

[Craig Lamson]

You see this distinction in the requirements to be a Congressperson where the eligibility is granted upon being a citizen for x years.  In neither case is parentage referred to.

She is not running for Congress, but rather for VP.  The requirements are different.

[Craig Lamson]

There is no plausible legal theory that could serve as the basis of a litigable claim that Kamala Harris is ineligible to serve as president or vice president.

Plausible is in the eye of the beholder, until the SCOTUS rules.

Of course I think the issue would more likely to be standing in respect to bringing a case to the court. 

[James Clark]

She is not running for Congress, but rather for VP.  The requirements are different.

Right.  That’s my point.  That’s why the terminology is different.  Naturalized citizen = “citizen” natural born = citizen by birth.

[James Clark]

Plausible is in the eye of the beholder, until the SCOTUS rules.

Of course I think the issue would more likely to be standing in respect to bringing a case to the court.

It wouldn’t get past whatever federal judge had the misfortune to have to adjudicate it first.   (Well, maybe Naomi Reo would buy it, but she’s a hack.)

[James Clark]

Well, yes, I think that "continually disappointed" would work for me as well. 

I have no aspirations that his rhetoric is even acceptable, just that Biden's policies are totally destructive to the economy.  We  are staring a depression in the face and Biden is talking about $4T in new taxes and increase regulations.  It did not work in 2009 and wont work in 2021. 

Pretty easy decision to make.

Dunno.. 2010-18 were pretty awesome for me.

[JoeKitchen]

Dunno.. 2010-18 were pretty awesome for me.

Well good for you, how far up the elite ladder are you?  You know all available evidence shows the Obama recovery was one of the worse in history, so once again, ths choice is easy.  Rinse and repeat or do the smart thing, like not raise taxes or regulations.

[faberryman]

Plausible is in the eye of the beholder, until the SCOTUS rules.

Plausibility is sometimes determined by whether the eye of the holder is willing to incur the time and expense of litigating it. A lot of things are plausible until you start writing checks.

[TechTalk]

The Supreme Court on Natural Born Citizens.
https://www.thepostemail.com/2009/10/18/4-supreme-court-cases-define-natural-born-citizen/

Hard to believe that the same old Birther Conspiracy crap using Vattel is still being peddled. Good luck with that.

I didn't know that the birther conspiracy kook website The Post and Email still existed. Maybe the owner can team up with "Queen of the Birthers" Orly Taitz, the attorney (and dentist) who argued the Vattel citizenship notion in federal and state courts and election boards all over the country making a fool of herself.

"The current owner/editor is Sharon Rondeau, who states she is a natural born American Citizen who began researching the eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama during the 2008 election cycle."

“Since its founding, The Post & Email has been on the forefront of the Obama identity/eligibility issue.”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-post-email/

[Robert Roaldi]

You're onto something.   Socialism didn't work out too well for the Czar and his family.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that feudalism didn't work out for them?

[James Clark]

Well good for you, how far up the elite ladder are you?

Well, I have gold toilets, and slap my name on buildings all over New York, and my Kiton suits are so expensive that I don’t even tailor the cuffs.   But I do love me some McDonald’s, so I’m a man of the people and I really understand their pain.

[JoeKitchen]

Well, I have gold toilets, and slap my name on buildings all over New York, and my Kiton suits are so expensive that I don’t even tailor the cuffs.   But I do love me some McDonald’s, so I’m a man of the people and I really understand their pain.

You will never know the pain of sh!##ing on a ice cold gold toilet.  It's so bad I hear you need to hire a toilet seat warmer to get it ready for you.  That's a job created right there!   

[Craig Lamson]

It wouldn’t get past whatever federal judge had the misfortune to have to adjudicate it first.   (Well, maybe Naomi Reo would buy it, but she’s a hack.)

Are you sure?  We won’t really know until it happens .

[Craig Lamson]

Right.  That’s my point.  That’s why the terminology is different.  Naturalized citizen = “citizen” natural born = citizen by birth.

Or Natural Born  as a requirement for the office of President, means born on American soil of two permanent legal residents. 

But of course the question is still unsettled.  And that’s why we are having this conversation.

[James Clark]

You will never know the pain of sh!##ing on a ice cold gold toilet.  It's so bad I hear you need to hire a toilet seat warmer to get it ready for you.  That's a job created right there!   

All kidding aside, a heated toilet seat is a pretty awesome luxury. 

[Craig Lamson]

Well good for you, how far up the elite ladder are you?  You know all available evidence shows the Obama recovery was one of the worse in history, so once again, ths choice is easy.  Rinse and repeat or do the smart thing, like not raise taxes or regulations.

Given how low we were in 2008, i don’t think anyone could have screwed up the growth, even as slow as it was.

[Robert Roaldi]

I kind of got lost in all the above about court cases and I don't know what else. Harris was born in the USA, right? That's my understanding from the few things I've read. That makes her American, doesn't it? So she can run for office, right. Isn't that all there is to it?

Trump or his spokespeople can just make up the dumbest shit and some people will go along with it. Is that's what going on here? Is that where America is now?