Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 194   Go Down

Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 255726 times)

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #280 on: August 02, 2020, 12:36:20 pm »

She did it herself calling all the swing state workers and other voters in the middle of the country "deplorables" being snotty and "holier than though".

Of course that is not true.  Hillary said one half of Trump supporters were deplorables (racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, etc.) and one half had legitimate grievances and should be listened to. So Trump supporters had a choice about which basket to put themselves in. Given that Trump and his supporters universally see themselves as victims, they all voluntarily put themselves in the deplorables basket, and bought a delorables t-shirt to boot.

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 12:50:06 pm by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #281 on: August 02, 2020, 01:40:44 pm »

Of course that is not true.  Hillary said one half of Trump supporters were deplorables (racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, etc.) and one half had legitimate grievances and should be listened to. So Trump supporters had a choice about which basket to put themselves in. Given that Trump and his supporters universally see themselves as victims, they all voluntarily put themselves in the deplorables basket, and bought a delorables t-shirt to boot.

https://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/
Remind me not to ask you to be my campaign manager or speech writer :)

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2204
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #282 on: August 02, 2020, 02:34:11 pm »

There may be an intriguing clue later this month about the effect, and political consequences, of President Trump's claim that increased voting by mail will lead to widespread fraud.  (A claim, I should add, that is not supported by credible evidence.)

On August 18, the state of Florida will conduct an intraparty primary election* to select candidates for both chambers of the national legislature, the House of Representatives and the Senate.  Because of the coronavirus pandemic, it appears likely that many more Floridians will vote by mail than in previous primary elections.

Primary elections are low-turnout events which tend to attract more highly-motivated voters.  For a variety of mostly demographic reasons, voters who identify with the Republican Party are generally believed to be proportionately more predisposed to vote than those who favor the Democratic Party.

This year, it may be different.  A number of political professionals from both major parties reportedly believe Trump's claims about mail-in voting are indeed reducing confidence in it ... but mostly among likely Republican voters.  There are reports that in many states, a much higher proportion of self-identified Democratic voters are requesting mail-in ballots than self-identified Republicans.

So the interesting things to watch in the Florida vote will be the respective turnout in this month's primary elections, rather than which candidates are selected by the voters of the respective parties, and what proportion of each party's voters cast ballots by mail instead of showing up at a polling place in-person.

Florida is a "swing state" in presidential elections, and the winner of the state election is awarded all of Florida's electoral votes.  Trump won Florida by a 1.2 percent margin in 2016 and it's a crucial state for him again this year; in fact, it's difficult to come up with a plausible path for him to be re-elected if he loses Florida.  The result of the November election may well turn on which of the two major parties is more effective in getting its potential voters to cast ballots.

Florida also one of the states with the highest incidence of COVID-19 infections, and if that persists―especially if 2020 turns out to be a bad autumn for influenza infections―in-person voting may be seriously depressed in November.  And therefore who votes by mail could be unusually significant.

―――
*For those of you unfamiliar with American political terminology, political parties in the United States conduct "primary" elections in the individual states during which voters who consider themselves members of a political party select the candidates the party will put forward in the November general election.  (Most states require advance registration for party selection; a few allow voters who appear at a polling place in-person to decide on the spot which party's primary they want to participate in.)

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #283 on: August 02, 2020, 02:45:30 pm »

There may be an intriguing clue later this month about the effect, and political consequences, of President Trump's claim that increased voting by mail will lead to widespread fraud.  (A claim, I should add, that is not supported by credible evidence.)

On August 18, the state of Florida will conduct an intraparty primary election* to select candidates for both chambers of the national legislature, the House of Representatives and the Senate.  Because of the coronavirus pandemic, it appears likely that many more Floridians will vote by mail than in previous primary elections.

Primary elections are low-turnout events which tend to attract more highly-motivated voters.  For a variety of mostly demographic reasons, voters who identify with the Republican Party are generally believed to be proportionately more predisposed to vote than those who favor the Democratic Party.

This year, it may be different.  A number of political professionals from both major parties reportedly believe Trump's claims about mail-in voting are indeed reducing confidence in it ... but mostly among likely Republican voters.  There are reports that in many states, a much higher proportion of self-identified Democratic voters are requesting mail-in ballots than self-identified Republicans.

So the interesting things to watch in the Florida vote will be the respective turnout in this month's primary elections, rather than which candidates are selected by the voters of the respective parties, and what proportion of each party's voters cast ballots by mail instead of showing up at a polling place in-person.

Florida is a "swing state" in presidential elections, and the winner of the state election is awarded all of Florida's electoral votes.  Trump won Florida by a 1.2 percent margin in 2016 and it's a crucial state for him again this year; in fact, it's difficult to come up with a plausible path for him to be re-elected if he loses Florida.  The result of the November election may well turn on which of the two major parties is more effective in getting its potential voters to cast ballots.

Florida also one of the states with the highest incidence of COVID-19 infections, and if that persists―especially if 2020 turns out to be a bad autumn for influenza infections―in-person voting may be seriously depressed in November.  And therefore who votes by mail could be unusually significant.

―――
*For those of you unfamiliar with American political terminology, political parties in the United States conduct "primary" elections in the individual states during which voters who consider themselves members of a political party select the candidates the party will put forward in the November general election.  (Most states require advance registration for party selection; a few allow voters who appear at a polling place in-person to decide on the spot which party's primary they want to participate in.)
You may be right about Trump shooting himself in the foot regarding mail-in turnout of Republicans.  But there is some truth about fraud with mail-ins.

There was a major mail-in fraud election just a few miles from where I live in New Jersey recently.  They used 100% mail because of the virus.   19% of the votes were fraudulent.  1 in 5! Four people got arrested including a government official running for re-election and other guys running for office.  The only reason they got caught is because a mailman picking up the mail from a mailbox, thought it strange that there was a sack of hundreds of mail-in ballots tied together, something that doesn't happen when each person mails their ballot.  So he notified the authorities.  Next time the "crooks" won't be so stupid or lazy and mail them separately and no one will get caught.

One wonders just how widespread it is since no one's checking.  It was only because of an alert mailman that this fraud was discovered.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5_ballots_rejected_as_fraud_is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #284 on: August 02, 2020, 02:49:36 pm »

You may be right about Trump shooting himself in the foot regarding mail-in turnout of Republicans.  But there is some truth about fraud with mail-ins.

There was a major mail-in fraud election just a few miles from where I live in New Jersey recently.  They used 100% mail because of the virus.   19% of the votes were fraudulent.  1 in 5! Four people got arrested including a government official running for re-election and other guys running for office.  The only reason they got caught is because a mailman picking up the mail from a mailbox, thought it strange that there was a sack of hundreds of mail-in ballots tied together, something that doesn't happen when each person mails their ballot.  So he notified the authorities.  Next time the "crooks" won't be so stupid or lazy and mail them separately and no one will get caught.

One wonders just how widespread it is since no one's checking.  It was only because of an alert mailman that this fraud was discovered.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/26/1_in_5_ballots_rejected_as_fraud_is_charged_in_nj_mail-in_election_143551.html

I think you posted that yesterday or the day before, verbatim.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 02:53:07 pm by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #285 on: August 02, 2020, 02:52:12 pm »

I think you posted that yesterday or the day before.
I was responded to Chris's false statement that there is no fraud with mail-in voting.  Apparently he missed my previous post. 

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2204
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #286 on: August 02, 2020, 02:59:56 pm »

There was a major mail-in fraud election just a few miles from where I live in New Jersey recently.  They used 100% mail because of the virus.   19% of the votes were fraudulent.  1 in 5! Four people got arrested including a government official running for re-election and other guys running for office.  The only reason they got caught is because a mailman picking up the mail from a mailbox, thought it strange that there was a sack of hundreds of mail-in ballots tied together, something that doesn't happen when each person mails their ballot.

There was no evidence any of those ballots was fraudulent.  "Bundling"—third-party collection of mail-in ballots from voters and transmission of them to state vote-counting officials in batches—is illegal in New Jersey.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #287 on: August 02, 2020, 03:17:20 pm »

There was no evidence any of those ballots was fraudulent.  "Bundling"—third-party collection of mail-in ballots from voters and transmission of them to state vote-counting officials in batches—is illegal in New Jersey.
Additionally, handling ballots for others is illegal if you're the one running for office.  That also happened.  Additionally, they found signatures that were not the original voters.  The fact is four people were charged and 20% of the ballots were declared illegal.   Come on Chris.  This is a fraud.  It would be better to acknowledge these things and try to come up with a system to reduce it from happening rather than looking the other way in denial for political reasons.  Election fraud is fraud.   

PeterAit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4647
    • Peter Aitken Photographs
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #288 on: August 02, 2020, 05:29:08 pm »

I was responded to Chris's false statement that there is no fraud with mail-in voting.  Apparently he missed my previous post.

Attempted fraud is not fraud. It was caught, and even if the mailman had not reported the issue there are other safeguards in place that would have caught it, such as signature matching--applied to mail-in ballots just like in-person ballots. 

Another failed fraud case happened here in NC when an operative for Republican Mark Harris (US house candidate) was found to have fiddled lots of absentee ballots. The operative is facing charges, Mark Harris withdrew, and a new election was ordered.
Logged

PeterAit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4647
    • Peter Aitken Photographs
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #289 on: August 02, 2020, 05:35:48 pm »

For those of us who try to assuage their Trump-related misery with some humor, here is a new one from The Orange Oaf:

"The Rolling Stones are un-American because they won't let me use their songs."
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8919
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #290 on: August 02, 2020, 05:59:06 pm »

For those of us who try to assuage their Trump-related misery with some humor, here is a new one from The Orange Oaf:

"The Rolling Stones are un-American because they won't let me use their songs."

If it weren't so crazy, I'd ROFLMAO ;D
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #291 on: August 02, 2020, 06:46:57 pm »

Trump on the other hand championed them, something they hadn't felt in decades.


Riiiiight.  And exactly how much good has he done for them since then?

Logged

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4600
    • Pieter Kers
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #292 on: August 02, 2020, 07:08:26 pm »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288509568578777088

Trump tweet : "I am happy to inform all of the people living their Suburban Lifestyle Dream that you will no longer be bothered or financially hurt by having low income housing built in your neighborhood..."

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/29/trump-slams-housing-rule-latest-message-suburban-voters/5536731002/
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-suburban-voters-housing-rule
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #293 on: August 02, 2020, 11:44:08 pm »

Attempted fraud is not fraud. It was caught, and even if the mailman had not reported the issue there are other safeguards in place that would have caught it, such as signature matching--applied to mail-in ballots just like in-person ballots. 

Another failed fraud case happened here in NC when an operative for Republican Mark Harris (US house candidate) was found to have fiddled lots of absentee ballots. The operative is facing charges, Mark Harris withdrew, and a new election was ordered.
Yes, the case hasn't come to trial.  It just happened. However, four people were charged criminally.  Regardless of the reason it was caught, you're brushing it off because you want to ignore that it's a real issue.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #294 on: August 02, 2020, 11:48:37 pm »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1288509568578777088

Trump tweet : "I am happy to inform all of the people living their Suburban Lifestyle Dream that you will no longer be bothered or financially hurt by having low income housing built in your neighborhood..."

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/29/trump-slams-housing-rule-latest-message-suburban-voters/5536731002/
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-suburban-voters-housing-rule
Do you even understand why he said this and what it means?

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #295 on: August 03, 2020, 09:44:34 am »

Do you even understand why he said this and what it means?

Pray tell us. This ought to be good.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #296 on: August 03, 2020, 11:02:50 am »

Most people who live in suburbia are concerned that low income housing if it is built in their communities reduces the value of their own homes when they sell them. Additionally, it raises property taxes of existing homes because low income housing being lower cost has lower property taxes.  So their children cost the rest of community more for schooling.  The taxes of low income homes don't cover the school costs for their kids.  Those additional costs are then paid in higher property taxes by others in the community. 

So the end result is that low income housing lowers the value of property of existing residents.  At the same time it raises their property taxes with no additional services.  It's not a racial issue because poor or lower income of all colors move into these low income houses.  So Trump is reminding suburbanites what his philosophy is before the election. 

hogloff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1194
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #297 on: August 03, 2020, 12:06:10 pm »

Most people who live in suburbia are concerned that low income housing if it is built in their communities reduces the value of their own homes when they sell them. Additionally, it raises property taxes of existing homes because low income housing being lower cost has lower property taxes.  So their children cost the rest of community more for schooling.  The taxes of low income homes don't cover the school costs for their kids.  Those additional costs are then paid in higher property taxes by others in the community. 

So the end result is that low income housing lowers the value of property of existing residents.  At the same time it raises their property taxes with no additional services.  It's not a racial issue because poor or lower income of all colors move into these low income houses.  So Trump is reminding suburbanites what his philosophy is before the election.

So what is Trump's solution to low income housing? Oh...I know, that is why he was interested in Greenland.
Logged

faberryman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4851
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #298 on: August 03, 2020, 12:16:13 pm »

Most people who live in suburbia are concerned that low income housing if it is built in their communities reduces the value of their own homes when they sell them.

Really? Most people in the suburbs are worried about this? Is there a lot of low income housing being built in the suburbs? Are you actively resisting low income housing encroaching into your neighborhood?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 12:29:44 pm by faberryman »
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #299 on: August 03, 2020, 12:26:40 pm »

Really? Most people in suburbia are worried about this? Is there a lot of low income housing being built in the suburbs?
Yes. In New Jersey where I live, it's mandated for new home construction.  The real estate developer has to include  a certain percentage of the homes he's building to low income.  We're getting killed with school costs. More than half of my property taxes go for schooling.  i have no children in schools.  I don't mind paying schools taxes even though I have no kids as someone paid for me when I was a kid.  It's just that it costs $18,000 per child [annually = edit] for school and going up.  They have to build a new high school and addition to K-12 to cover all the new kids.
 Even then it won't be enough.  There are a lot of fixed income retired people who can't afford these escalating property taxes caused by these mandates.
Pages: 1 ... 13 14 [15] 16 17 ... 194   Go Up