US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[LesPalenik]

Since I retired 5 years ago, my savings almost doubled. Got to be smart with your money and not treat them as savings, but investments.

That's the right approach to use your savings as investment. Many people use their savings to buy discretionary items or pay medical bills. 

[Peter McLennan]

High Quality Photojournalism. 
Long lens. Night. Moving subject. Perfectly timed.

[hogloff]

High Quality Photojournalism. 
Long lens. Night. Moving subject. Perfectly timed.

Is that Trump coming back from his Tulsa roundup. Doesn't look too happy...expected tens of thousands of people including the outside overflow...got maybe 6,200 if we stretch it.

Get used to that grumpy look...November is coming.

[Peter McLennan]

Is that Trump coming back from his Tulsa roundup.

Yep.  Just stepped off the helo.

Doesn't look too happy..

No kidding.  Hence the "high quality photojournalism" comment.

[faberryman]

Not really a good look for a President.

[Chris Kern]

High Quality Photojournalism. 
Long lens. Night. Moving subject. Perfectly timed.

Yes!  The video was widely broadcast and there are a number of other stills, but this shot (by Patrick Semansky of the Associated Press) is the best of the latter that I've seen.  A beaten man captured at the decisive moment.

[TechTalk]

Paterson, NJ election fraud is just the tip of the iceberg

In the decision of a two year long Federal Court case, that ran from 2016 to 2018 and was just reaffirmed by a Federal Appeals Court 2 months ago, in which Kris Kobach (who has built his political career for the past decade on claims of widespread voter fraud and who Trump appointed to lead a commission to uncover such fraud) was the defendant in a voter suppression lawsuit, the judge wrote...

Defendant insists that these numbers are just “the tip of the iceberg.” This trial was his opportunity to produce credible evidence of that iceberg, but he failed to do so.

Instead, the Court draws the more obvious conclusion that there is no iceberg; only an icicle, largely created by confusion and administrative error.

I don't know anything about that case and it has nothing to do with the current situation in New Jersey. The City of Paterson and 31 other district problems in NJ are just a few weeks old and have major criminal implications.  People have already been arrested.  The results of elections are being discarded or questioned.  You're just creating a straw man diversion to protect Democrats who are opposed to effective monitoring of voting.

I'm suggesting that when people make the claim that something is the "tip of the iceberg" that it would be a good idea to show the iceberg.

When voter fraud is caught and prosecuted one possible reaction could be, I'm glad to see the system functioning to detect fraud. Another reaction could be to claim that it's just the "tip of the iceberg" without ever showing any evidence of that claim. Kobach chose the latter and it hasn't served him very well. It's your choice if you wish to do the same.

[James Clark]

I don't know anything about that case and it has nothing to do with the current situation in New Jersey. The City of Paterson and 31 other district problems in NJ are just a few weeks old and have major criminal implications.  People have already been arrested.  The results of elections are being discarded or questioned.  You're just creating a straw man diversion to protect Democrats who are opposed to effective monitoring of voting.

Dude. *Four* people have been arrested for the crime of not properly filling in the thing that affirms that they’re official ballot collectors, as best I can tell.  What’s weird is I can’t find the story on Fox anywhere, which tells me either this is a total nonevent or the perpetrators were Republicans. 

[Peter McLennan]

but this shot (by Patrick Semansky of the Associated Press)

Thanks for providing that info.  It really is an excellent image.

[TechTalk]

Thanks for providing that info.  It really is an excellent image.

It is an excellent example of spot news photojournalism. Would not surprise me if there is a Pulitzer nomination for it.

[Peter McLennan]

It is an excellent example of spot news photojournalism. Would not surprise me if there is a Pulitzer nomination for it.

I was gonna use that word, too.

[Alan Klein]

Dude. *Four* people have been arrested for the crime of not properly filling in the thing that affirms that they’re official ballot collectors, as best I can tell.  What’s weird is I can’t find the story on Fox anywhere, which tells me either this is a total nonevent or the perpetrators were Republicans. 

Some of the people arrested are not official ballot collectors.  Either they collected more than three the maximum allowed by law (hundreds in fact) or they were the ones running in the election in which case they cannot be official ballot collectors.  There were thousands of ballots that had phoney signatures.  There were hundreds more that were just dumped in the mail box bound together, obviously not sent by individuals.   You really did read the article and are just apologizing for a major election crime these guys did. 

[James Clark]

Some of the people arrested are not official ballot collectors.  Either they collected more than three the maximum allowed by law (hundreds in fact) or they were the ones running in the election in which case they cannot be official ballot collectors.  There were thousands of ballots that had phoney signatures.  There were hundreds more that were just dumped in the mail box bound together, obviously not sent by individuals.   You really did read the article and are just apologizing for a major election crime these guys did.

No I'm not, and I'm freely admitting that I can't find much about it yet.  I AM saying that characterizing it as major fraud with "serious criminal implications" is premature, and it's certainly too early to use this as a reason why even more restrictions to voting should be instituted.

[Alan Klein]

No I'm not, and I'm freely admitting that I can't find much about it yet.  I AM saying that characterizing it as major fraud with "serious criminal implications" is premature, and it's certainly too early to use this as a reason why even more restrictions to voting should be institute.

I'm in favor of mail in voting.  My wife and I use it.  But it's too easy to finagle as this case shows.  I live in New Jersey.  The politics are so corrupt here.  I came from New York where it's worse.  The leaders of the NY state senate and legislature went to jail for corruption. 

This case isn't premature.  People have been charged with election fraud.  The only reason they got caught is because they were stupid.  The put together hundreds of mail in vote envelopes, tied them together and stuffed them in the US Mail box.  An alert mailman knew this looked phoney.  Votes are mailed individually by people on their own. It was obvious someone was playing games with them bound together and reported it to his boss.  So they investigated and found the fraud.  Multiply this across the country.  Of course they were Democrats.  Democrats are good and getting dead people to vote as they did in Chicago and helped Kennedy win the presidency in 1960. 

If we're going to have mail in voting, we should understand that there are people who will gameplay.  We should come up with procedures to minimize that.  You're not opposed to that are you?

[TechTalk]

Of course they were Democrats.

From NPR News July 30, 2019: Prosecutors in North Carolina filed new felony charges against a Republican political operative accused of ballot tampering in a congressional election in 2018.

Leslie McCrae Dowless was charged Tuesday with two counts of felony obstruction of justice, perjury, solicitation to commit perjury, conspiracy to obstruct justice and illegal possession of absentee ballots, according to a statement by Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman.

The charges relate to the tainted 9th congressional district election last year in which Republican Mark Harris led in the unofficial vote tally by a margin of about 900 votes over Democrat Dan McCready. But the election results were overturned by the state after an investigation into an absentee ballot operation on Harris' behalf suggested that Dowless had improperly collected and possibly tampered with ballots.  https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/north-carolina-gop-operative-faces-new-felony-charges-that-allege-ballot-fraud

[TechTalk]

The charges above were the second set of felony charges filed. The first set of felony charges were filed in February of 2019.

NPR News February 27, 2019: North Carolina prosecutors have announced that Leslie McCrae Dowless, the political operative accused of illegally collecting absentee ballots in that state's 9th Congressional District, has been indicted on charges of obstruction of justice and possessing absentee ballots.

North Carolina election officials voted unanimously last week to order a new election in the race after four days of testimony laid out how Dowless and his associates collected absentee ballots on behalf of Republican candidate Mark Harris, a felony under state law.   

Harris announced Tuesday that he would not run in the new election. In testimony before the State Board of Elections last week, he denied that he was aware of any illegal acts on behalf of his campaign. But Harris' claims were undermined by testimony from his son John, who said he warned his father about Dowless' tactics.

In a statement, Kim Strach, the executive director of the State Board of Elections, said the indictments "should serve as a stern warning to anyone trying to defraud elections in North Carolina."

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/27/political-operative-at-center-of-tainted-n-c-election-charged

[TechTalk]

Well then, you must be a Kurd.

You're just creating a straw man diversion to protect Democrats who are opposed to effective monitoring of voting.

So far in this one thread, you have assigned to me an ethnicity and a motive neither of which are correct. Should I choose to reveal any personal details or describe any motivation that I may have for what I write, I'm quite capable of doing so myself... and with greater accuracy.

[Robert Roaldi]

On point TED talk about representative democracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE. As a warning, it is critical of the current US processes and he makes some suggestions for improvement.

[Alan Klein]

On point TED talk about representative democracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE. As a warning, it is critical of the current US processes and he makes some suggestions for improvement.

His initial and main point is as follows: "Harvard Professor Lawrence Lessig makes the case that our democracy has become corrupt with money, leading to inequality that means only 0.02% of the United States population actually determines who's in power."


What's interesting is his speech was made in 2015. Trump, a populist, went on to prove him wrong the following year in 2016 election as he beat all the traditional insiders who were monied. (Bush had $100 million war chest but got a miniscule 3% of the nomination votes).  It is true had Trump lost, than Hillary who all the monied interests supported and who now support Biden, including Republican insiders, would have won.  So if that happens, we will revert to what he suggests again in 2020.  It's the insiders who want Biden.  He has no support from the people.  No one is interested in him.  He was pushed to the lead by democrat insiders who pushed Sanders to the side.  It's the insiders who want Biden elected.  It is they who will control him as a puppet to get what they, not the people, want. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Let's not get started on Kayleigh. I treasure her press briefings, especially the interplay with other female reporters who are telling her that she's full of shit. But Kayleigh is made of teflon -- the comments slide right by her and she doesn't even blink, just keeps going with that inane, and possibly insane, smile, because she doesn't recognize the fact that the reporters are telling her that she's an idiot. And she looks so much like Barbie! Andy Warhol would have loved her as much as I do! She's the Republican female dream, and you gotta respect that!

Yes, she doesn't have the scowl of Sarah Sanders or the discomfort of Sean Spicer.  She just gets out there and tells it like it is.  It's like a breath of air but I'm unsure how fresh it is.