Poll

Who do you think will be sworn in as President on Jan. 21?

Biden
- 14 (66.7%)
Trump
- 7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm


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Author Topic: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)  (Read 257106 times)

faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2380 on: October 16, 2020, 02:36:02 pm »

As a last act of desperation, I checked the Infowars website. Sure enough, here is the story that appears to be trending:

Did Hunter Biden’s Laptop Contain Child Porn?

“What we’re in possession of contains 1,000, maybe more, photographs that are highly, highly – anywhere from inappropriate to illegal – and have to be possessed by the Chinese government,” Giuliani said.

https://www.infowars.com/posts/did-hunter-bidens-laptop-contain-pedophilic-content/

Is this what Team Trump is going with? Is this what is supposed to sway the ten percent or so of undecided voters?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 02:45:10 pm by faberryman »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2381 on: October 16, 2020, 02:53:11 pm »

Here's an interesting example of slippery slope, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/trump-tramples-government-boundaries-as-election-nears-429487. A series of Presidents using their office to help with politics in ways that they shouldn't, and Trump takes it so much farther.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2382 on: October 16, 2020, 02:56:42 pm »

There actually is no forum rule that requires use of a real name or prohibiting pseudonyms. The complaints regarding my name are used to distract, deflect, or diminish by those that don't like what I write. There's always the option to just ignore any information that doesn't fit inside whatever bubble you choose.
As someone else said here once, where you stand depends on where you sit. 

Not knowing your nationality or at least a general location where you're from, it's hard to discern positions you take.  That weakens your position because you may have a hidden ax to grind.  So people often discount what you say and ignore them off hand.  Would you be revealing much if you said you were American or a southerner or westerner or Canadian or whatever?  I doubt if anyone's going to figure out who you really are.  It would help make the conversation more  interesting and meaningful.

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2383 on: October 16, 2020, 02:59:37 pm »

As a last act of desperation, I checked the Infowars website. Sure enough, here is the story that appears to be trending:

Did Hunter Biden’s Laptop Contain Child Porn?

“What we’re in possession of contains 1,000, maybe more, photographs that are highly, highly – anywhere from inappropriate to illegal – and have to be possessed by the Chinese government,” Giuliani said.

https://www.infowars.com/posts/did-hunter-bidens-laptop-contain-pedophilic-content/

Is this what Team Trump is going with? Is this what is supposed to sway the ten percent or so of undecided voters?

The Democrats spent two years talking about yellow rain and what Trump did sexually in Russia from the phony Clinton dossier on him. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2384 on: October 16, 2020, 03:00:24 pm »

A BBC summary report about the Hunter Biden thing, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54553132. It's the first time I've bothered reading any of the detail surrounding what did or did not happen. Doesn't sound like much to me, frankly.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2385 on: October 16, 2020, 03:04:54 pm »

The Democrats spent two years talking about yellow rain and what Trump did sexually in Russia from the phony Clinton dossier on him.

I don't think that's quite accurate, is it? A few people had some fun with those rumours, but I never thought that they reached the level of serious discussion.

You can't possibly be trying to draw an equivalence between the "Democrats" and Info Wars. That's just nuts. Info Wars is whackier than the National Enquirer ever tried to be.
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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2386 on: October 16, 2020, 03:05:33 pm »

Here's an interesting example of slippery slope, https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/15/trump-tramples-government-boundaries-as-election-nears-429487. A series of Presidents using their office to help with politics in ways that they shouldn't, and Trump takes it so much farther.

Presidents have always taken advantage of their office in re-election campaigns.  In NYC, every time we got a new mayor, every public sign in the city is changed to replace the name with the latest mayor all at huge expense.  Fortunately, they're not allowed to replace the name engraved in stone on existing buildings themselves like new pharaohs chopping off the faces of old pharaohs.

Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2387 on: October 16, 2020, 03:06:56 pm »

A BBC summary report about the Hunter Biden thing, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54553132. It's the first time I've bothered reading any of the detail surrounding what did or did not happen. Doesn't sound like much to me, frankly.
The Clinton dossier didn't seem like much to me either.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2388 on: October 16, 2020, 03:08:52 pm »

Presidents have always taken advantage of their office in re-election campaigns.  In NYC, every time we got a new mayor, every public sign in the city is changed to replace the name with the latest mayor all at huge expense.  Fortunately, they're not allowed to replace the name engraved in stone on existing buildings themselves like new pharaohs chopping off the faces of old pharaohs.

You didn't read the article, did you? Why do you always make comments about articles you don't read.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2389 on: October 16, 2020, 03:09:24 pm »

The Clinton dossier didn't seem like much to me either.

Was there much to it?

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Alan Klein

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2390 on: October 16, 2020, 03:10:43 pm »

I don't think that's quite accurate, is it? A few people had some fun with those rumours, but I never thought that they reached the level of serious discussion.

You can't possibly be trying to draw an equivalence between the "Democrats" and Info Wars. That's just nuts. Info Wars is whackier than the National Enquirer ever tried to be.
People took the dossier seriously.  After all it was used to get the FISA court to allow spying on a political candidate, led to a two year $30 million dollar investigation of a sitting president plus more than two years of smearing him.  Now, suddenly, after all the damage was done, you claim it was all just a big joke.

John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2391 on: October 16, 2020, 03:28:36 pm »

Wait, wait. I'm no longer on top of this. "Hunter Biden" left a laptop with a repair service, accepted by a guy who is nearly blind* but was "almost sure" it was Hunter Biden, and "Hunter Biden" apparently forgot about it (even though it was loaded with incriminating evidence that could send him to prison) and never picks it up, so the nearly blind guy happens to know Giuliani, and gives him the computer, and Giuliani, who is cooperating with a Russian spy who wants to re-elect Trump, confers with Steve Bannon, and it turns out the computer not only contains incriminating documents from the Ukraine but also child porn from China? Have I got that straight? If I do, it all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

*literally -- that's why he isn't absolutely certain it was Hunter Biden, and so can't be accused of perjury.
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TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2392 on: October 16, 2020, 03:42:47 pm »

As someone else said here once, where you stand depends on where you sit. 

Not knowing your nationality or at least a general location where you're from, it's hard to discern positions you take.  That weakens your position because you may have a hidden ax to grind.  So people often discount what you say and ignore them off hand.  Would you be revealing much if you said you were American or a southerner or westerner or Canadian or whatever?  I doubt if anyone's going to figure out who you really are.  It would help make the conversation more  interesting and meaningful.

I don't know. It was kind of fun watching you not just jump, but leap to the conclusion that I "must be a Kurd" when I mentioned the U.S. abandonment of our Kurdish allies in Syria and that didn't require getting any further than the second page of this thread. That bizarre rationalizing, that any real American may not share your view, was useful in discerning where you are coming from—not in terms of your nationality, but your thought process.

Now... just so that I may enhance your ability to discern my point of view, since the language itself seems to be insufficient, I was born and raised in the U.S. and have lived in various parts of the country from rural to urban for the entirety of my life. Don't tell anyone else, it's more fun to keep the other folks like yourself, that are unable to figure it out on their own, guessing. Since you find it "hard to discern" what I write without knowing my nationality, is there other information that you need in order to improve your understanding? Race, religion, gender, anything else you might need to know?

Like I said when you brought it up at the beginning of this thread, I've traveled to other countries and found that opinions vary tremendously on any topic you can name, as do people and their personalities, regardless of where you were born or currently reside. The broad stereotypical assumptions that you've expressed, at various times, regarding the nature and behavior of people in other parts of the world have shed no light on them, so much as it has regarding you.

Trouble is South Koreans go along with firm almost dictatorial government.  Americans, even Europeans, wouldn't accept that kind of control.

Facts don't generally have a nationality attached to them any more than opinions do. The propaganda and disinformation that is distributed for consumption, however, often does.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:20:05 pm by TechTalk »
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2393 on: October 16, 2020, 03:43:43 pm »

Wait, wait. I'm no longer on top of this. "Hunter Biden" left a laptop with a repair service, accepted by a guy who is nearly blind* but was "almost sure" it was Hunter Biden, and "Hunter Biden" apparently forgot about it (even though it was loaded with incriminating evidence that could send him to prison) and never picks it up, so the nearly blind guy happens to know Giuliani, and gives him the computer, and Giuliani, who is cooperating with a Russian spy who wants to re-elect Trump, confers with Steve Bannon, and it turns out the computer not only contains incriminating documents from the Ukraine but also child porn from China? Have I got that straight? If I do, it all sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

*literally -- that's why he isn't absolutely certain it was Hunter Biden, and so can't be accused of perjury.

I think the only thing you left out is that Giuliani gave the laptop to the New York Post so they could break the story. You would have thought Bannon would have given it to Breitbart. Or maybe the crew at Fox & Friends. Steve Doucy, for example. I guess I'll have to watch Tucker Carlson tonight for the real scoop. This is way above Sean Hannity's pay grade.

The thing is that even if all of this is true no one will believe it.  Well, except for a couple of people. Jiminy Cricket, it's so complicated no one is going to be able to figure who's doing what to whom when, where, and how before the election.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:29:16 pm by faberryman »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2394 on: October 16, 2020, 04:06:47 pm »

I will briefly jump in to interrupt your usual bickering to laud the voting process I experienced.

I voted today.

By fax.

And no, my vote won't count in the 1992 election, if that is what you thought at the mention of the word "fax." It was an online service. It cost me a whopping $0.98, because the ballot is five pages long, and free service stops at three pages. On the same day, i received a confirmation from the Broward County Supervisor of Elections (Florida) that my vote has been received. I can even go online now and see when it is actually counted. Did I mention that I requested the ballot online and got access to it online too? I am truly in awe of how efficient the whole process is.

TechTalk

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2395 on: October 16, 2020, 04:14:11 pm »

I will briefly jump in to interrupt your usual bickering to laud the voting process I experienced.

I voted today.

By fax.

And no, my vote won't count in the 1992 election, if that is what you thought at the mention of the word "fax." It was an online service. It cost me a whopping $0.98, because the ballot is five pages long, and free service stops at three pages. On the same day, i received a confirmation from the Broward County Supervisor of Elections (Florida) that my vote has been received. I can even go online now and see when it is actually counted. Did I mention that I requested the ballot online and got access to it online too? I am truly in awe of how efficient the whole process is.

Thanks. That's great to hear.

I congratulate you on voting. Everyone should freely express their opinions by voting.
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faberryman

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2396 on: October 16, 2020, 04:14:20 pm »

I will briefly jump in to interrupt your usual bickering to laud the voting process I experienced.

I voted today.

By fax.

And no, my vote won't count in the 1992 election, if that is what you thought at the mention of the word "fax." It was an online service. It cost me a whopping $0.98, because the ballot is five pages long, and free service stops at three pages. On the same day, i received a confirmation from the Broward County Supervisor of Elections (Florida) that my vote has been received. I can even go online now and see when it is actually counted. Did I mention that I requested the ballot online and got access to it online too? I am truly in awe of how efficient the whole process is.

I guess you don't know about URL redirection. I think the color-blind computer repair guy who had Hunter Biden's laptop has a summary on his website. The thing is the fax machine you faxed your ballot to is in a ditch along with thousands of faxed ballots. Unless of course you voted for Biden, in which case everything is probably okay. I think that is what Trump said. Or maybe it is the other way around. I get confused.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 04:31:53 pm by faberryman »
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John Camp

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2397 on: October 16, 2020, 04:23:05 pm »

<snip>
I voted today. By fax. And no, my vote won't count in the 1992 election, if that is what you thought at the mention of the word "fax."

That is what I thought.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2398 on: October 16, 2020, 04:24:40 pm »

I think the only thing you left out is that Giuliani gave the laptop to the New York Post instead of someone like Bill Barr.

The thing is that even if all of this is true no one will believe it.  Well, except for a couple of people.

Good grief guys,

It appears Hunter Biden signed the repair receipt.  Or so the repairman said.  Rudy never had the laptop and he says he has never met with the repair guy.

The repair guy called the FBI and they came and took a forensic copy of the hard drive.  He aslo called some congress critters. He got no responce from them or thje FBI after they took the material.   The laptop had become surrendered property and belonged to the repair guy. He had every right to do whatever he wanted to it nad the data it contained.  Nothing was hacked (got that Twitter and Facebook)  The repair guy stated he attempted to contact Hunter Biden several times.

Later a  Grand Jury from Deleware I believe, came and took posession of the laptop.  The order was signed by an FBI special agent who had been doing child porn cases.

Then the repair guy who was pissed at the way the impeachement was being handled and the fact that no one was telling him what was happeing with the hard drive data, contacted Rudys attorney and sent a copy of the drive to him.  He then gave it to Rudy.

So some are questions why Hunter would send in a laptop with damaging data and not collect it when it was finished.  After all it was only a $85 dollar repair.  Well Hunter was a raging crack addict.  He got thown out of the Navy for drug use, and he famiously left a crack pipe in a returned rental car. He was a druggie and it does not surprise me one bit he forgot what was on that machine or that he even took it in for repair.

So, folks are saying, maybe the data was stolen and planted on this laptop.  Ok lets go with this.  If that the case, it does not make the data fake.  In fact no one from Bidens camp has claimed the emails and other materials are faked.  The best they have done, and this one is a complete doozey, is to say that since Facebook and Twitter spiked the story from the Post that proves the story is a false.  This one takes the cake.

Now no one is talking.  The FBI won't comment. Some congress critters are demanding the FBI tell them if they had this imformation during the Impeachment and kept it quiet.  The left media is spinning madly going after the repair guy and Rudy but no one seems to be doing any actually investigative journalism to check out Biden.

So is the story true?  I don't know, but the left wants to bury it, that much is certian.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)
« Reply #2399 on: October 16, 2020, 04:25:16 pm »

As a last act of desperation, I checked the Infowars website. Sure enough, here is the story that appears to be trending:

Did Hunter Biden’s Laptop Contain Child Porn?

“What we’re in possession of contains 1,000, maybe more, photographs that are highly, highly – anywhere from inappropriate to illegal – and have to be possessed by the Chinese government,” Giuliani said.

https://www.infowars.com/posts/did-hunter-bidens-laptop-contain-pedophilic-content/

Is this what Team Trump is going with? Is this what is supposed to sway the ten percent or so of undecided voters?

The fact that Giuliani is involved with this is the one thing that really gives me pause.  He's the right's version of Adam Schiff. 

But anyway, the pollster that called the election last year is predicting Trump will win this year.  His take is that he will win all of the typical red states, and then he just needs either PA, MI or WI, just one.  He stated MI will more then likely vote for Trump; I give PA a 60% chance of voting for Trump as well. 
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