US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[Alan Klein]

The devil is in the details and we do not know what all the deductions were which is probably more concerning. You and I have no idea about the legitimacy of the deductions.  To cite but one example for which there is documentation, Ivanka Trump was pad $750K consulting fee despite the fact that she was a named officer of the LLC for the property in question and this was taken off as a business deduction.  This stinks and clearly is a way to transfer wealth outside of the normal tax situation.

What the Times reporting shows is that Trump is a pretty poor businessman and that had it not been for the income from 'The Apprentice' he would have really struggled.  He also pissed away a lot of that money buying golf courses.  Many have pointed to his great business acumen and that is exactly what the NY Times dispels.  the other key thing that I have noted ad nauseum is he campaigned in 2016 that he knew how to reform the tax code.  Maybe he did, but you certainly do not see anything that points out that he had any influence at all. 

Arguing that some deduction might be inappropriate means nothing.  It's speculation. It was a smear.  The Times didn't report the chart of how he took the deductions so it came out to $750 because the chart explains it.  Even you said that. They smeared him the first day of the article then left the chart to be published on a future date after the damage was done.  The NY Times knew that the news would be about the $750.  So they kept the explanation until later after they hurt him with a BS news article.

The article showed nothing about him being a bad businessman.   The fact he writes off tax deductions for business and pays little taxes shows he's smart not dumb.  Also, tax returns don't show wealth.  They show income over the prior year and losses carried forward.  They don't show property owned or other wealth.   He's worth around $3 1/2 billion by Forbes and other business publications.  You and I should be so poor.

[Alan Klein]

Why would anyone give Donald Trump the benefit of the doubt about anything? I can just hear it now: Trump's business deductions weren't fraudulent, they were just exaggerations or merely aspirational.

The IRS has never charged him with tax fraud in 50 years he's been in business.   This was the NY Times smearing him.  Their October surprise.

[Alan Klein]

In the time it took my browser to refresh, The Daily Beast put up a story about the conspiracy theories that have arisen on Twitter in connection with Trump's positive test for coronavirus. I liked this one:

"Some posts, like WMM podcast and CNN political analyst Joe Lockhart, floated the idea that these cascading scandals somehow replace each other. “This is the world we live in. The Kimberly [Guilfoyle sexual harassment] story gave us a break from the Trump the racist story. The Melania tapes gave us a break from the Kimberly story. And the Covid diagnosis gave us a break from the Melania tape story. NUTS.”"

https://www.thedailybeast.com/conspiracy-theory-twitter-is-going-nuts-over-trumps-covid-diagnosis

In case you are not familiar with the Melania tapes story, here's a link. Apparently, she is not all that excited about Christmas decorations:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/melania-trump-spouts-off-in-secret-recording-who-gives-a-fk-about-christmas-stuff

The Kimberly Guilfoyle sexual harassment story can be found here:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/media/kimberly-guilfoyle-fox-allegations/index.html

The Trump's a racist story, just Google "Trump racist" and take your pick.

TDS.

[Robert Roaldi]

Here's a podcast interview with journalist David Fahrenthold about Trump's business dealings while in office. The short intro blurb from the interview, << Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Fahrenthold says in the past, an honor system helped keep presidents from using the office to benefit themselves. Not Trump: "He exploits honor systems." >>

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/05/757867502/from-mar-a-lago-to-trump-hotels-reporter-says-trump-profits-as-president


On the same topic, here's an interview with a Forbes journalist, https://www.npr.org/2020/09/22/915609582/white-house-inc-author-trump-s-businesses-offer-a-million-potential-conflicts.

[PeterAit]

Here's another fact for the Trumplets to ignore.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/10/01/trump-is-single-largest-driver-of-covid-19-misinformation-cornell-study-finds

[Alan Klein]

Here's a podcast interview with journalist David Fahrenthold about Trump's business dealings while in office. The short intro blurb from the interview, << Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Fahrenthold says in the past, an honor system helped keep presidents from using the office to benefit themselves. Not Trump: "He exploits honor systems." >>

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/05/757867502/from-mar-a-lago-to-trump-hotels-reporter-says-trump-profits-as-president


On the same topic, here's an interview with a Forbes journalist, https://www.npr.org/2020/09/22/915609582/white-house-inc-author-trump-s-businesses-offer-a-million-potential-conflicts.

You're just telling us everything we knew about Trump when we hired him in 2016.  That he is a businessman with companies around the world.  That's why we elected him.  So he could help with our economy.  He did that.  That's why we need him to continue rather than hiring a guy who's been a politician all his life whose only private work was to use his position and influence as VP to get a job for his son in CHina and Ukraine.

[faberryman]

Some around here may be panicking. There were seven doctors in the briefing this morning at Walter Reed concerning Trump's condition. All experts. OMG! Experts! Seven diagnoses, seven treatment plans, seven prognoses, all in conflict. How do they know who is right? Maybe none of them are right. Isn't the number seven one of those devil worship numbers? We're doomed I say, doomed.

And what about Melania? In addition to the coronavirus, she is still suffering PTSD from having to deal with Christmas decorations last year. Her anxiety level will skyrocket as December approaches. A valium IV is the only solution. What? She's already on a valium IV? Who knew? Is that why she squints all the time?

[Alan Klein]

Some around here may be panicking. There were seven doctors in the briefing this morning at Walter Reed concerning Trump's condition. All experts. OMG. Seven diagnoses, seven treatment plans, seven prognoses, all in conflict. How do they know who is right? Maybe none of them are right. Isn't the number seven one of those devil worship numbers. We're doomed I say, doomed.

That's what I've been saying for months.  You can't trust experts because they all have differing opinions that change from week to week.

[wcarlew]

Humans are not rational, they rationalize.

[faberryman]

Guys, guys, have you been reading the news? Everyone in the Trump orbit is testing positive. Trump, his stunt double, Melania, Kellyanne, Trump's campaign manager, three senators, and now Chris Christie. Talk about co-morbidities. If Christie is infected, so is Giuliani. There goes debate prep. That worked out so well last time around, everyone was panicking. Kanye has volunteered to stand in for Trump if necessary. It was the only way to calm everyone down.

Speaking of debate prep, the whatever it is called has agreed with the Biden campaign that Harris and Pence will be seated 12 feet apart. The Pence team was arguing for 7 feet. Nothing like an extra foot of clearance in the middle of a pandemic just to be safe. Team Biden was also pressing for standing instead of sitting, but Team Trump prevailed. It is a little known fact that Pence suffers from bone spurs in his feet. That's why Trump picked him. Also, there will be an extra seat on Pence's side for his wife. The Billy Graham rule, you know.

[James Clark]

Guys, guys, have you been reading the news? Everyone in the Trump orbit is testing positive. Trump, his stunt double, Melania, Kellyanne, Trump's campaign manager, three senators, and now Chris Christie. Talk about co-morbidities. If Christie is infected, so is Giuliani. There goes debate prep. That worked out so well last time around, everyone is panicked. Kanye has volunteered to stand in for Trump if necessary. It was the only way to calm everyone down.

Speaking of debate prep, the whatever it is called has agreed with the Biden campaign that Harris and Pence will be seated 12 feet apart. The Pence team was arguing for 7 feet. Nothing like an extra foot clearance if the middle of a pandemic just to be safe. Team Biden was also pressing for standing instead of sitting, but Team Trump prevailed. It is a little known fact that Pence suffers from bone spurs. That's why Trump picked him. Also, there will be an extra seat on Pence's side for his wife. The Billy Graham rule, you know.

I wonder if the trump team will pointedly refuse to wear masks inside again. Seeing as how the trigger seems to have been the Barrett party prior to the debate, this means all those fuckwits were likely active spreaders on Tuesday.  Of course, the Joe Kitchen theory is that that doesn’t matter so, whatever. Maybe they can move the next debates to some stoop in philly where people think it’s no big deal.  Sorry if I sound like an a-hole, but damn.  Why the hell is wearing a mask a gd political statement.  It’s so worthlessly stupid to deliberately flout a reasonable precaution.

[Alan Klein]

I wonder if the trump team jackasses will pointedly refuse to wear masks inside again. Seeing as how the trigger seems to have been the Barrett party prior to the debate, this means all those fuckwits were likely active spreaders on Tuesday.  Of course, the Joe Kitchen theory is that that doesn’t matter so, whatever. Maybe they can move the next debates to some stoop in philly where people think it’s no big deal.  Sorry if I sound like an a-hole, but damn.  Why the hell is wearing a mask a gd political statement. So worthlessly stupid to deliberately flout a reasonable precaution.

The mask has become a political statement on both sides.  With Democrats, wearing it shows that they put medical leadership first, maybe only.  On the Republican side, not wearing it says that they're in favor of economic recovery while accepting the risks of the disease. 

[James Clark]

The mask has become a political statement on both sides.  With Democrats, wearing it shows that they put medical leadership first, maybe only.  On the Republican side, not wearing it says that they're in favor of economic recovery while accepting the risks of the disease.

Stop excusing their bullshit, Alan. They exposed a few hundred innocent people with their “statement”.

Oh, and apparently he also went unmasked to a MAGA rally Thursday AFTER he knew he was exposed if I’m understanding the timeline right. 

[LesPalenik]

The mask has become a political statement on both sides.  With Democrats, wearing it shows that they put medical leadership first, maybe only.  On the Republican side, not wearing it says that they're in favor of economic recovery while accepting the risks of the disease.

That's about the same as saying that not wearing condoms propels the economy and provides financial security for seniors.

[Craig Lamson]

Stop excusing their bullshit, Alan. They exposed a few hundred innocent people with their “statement”.

Oh, and apparently he also went unmasked to a MAGA rally Thursday AFTER he knew he was exposed if I’m understanding the timeline right.

People made their choice, to first attend and second to not wear a mask.  Choices have consequences.  This is what happened.  They all deal with it.  Freedom is kinda like that. 

That said Im a mask wearer.  But its not my job to police or mask shame those who dont.

BTW, I believe the Thursday event was a private fund raiser. 

On the upside, should Trump recover we will have a President for the next four years who "might" be immune from Covid. 

[Peter McLennan]

That's what I've been saying for months.  You can't trust experts because they all have differing opinions that change from week to week.

If we can't trust experts, then who should we trust, Alan?

[Alan Goldhammer]

People made their choice, to first attend and second to not wear a mask.  Choices have consequences.  This is what happened.  They all deal with it.  Freedom is kinda like that. 

That said Im a mask wearer.  But its not my job to police or mask shame those who dont.

this reflects a poor understanding of how masks work to prevent the spread of COVID-19.  Your unilateral decision is good but if others are not wearing them, there is still a great societal risk.  The more people who wear masks, the lower the risk becomes.  The key study was done in Germany earlier this year.  Two towns of about 80K apiece adopted universal mask regulations but at four week intervals.  the first town saw infections drop to zero while the second one still had residual infections.  When the second town's regulation kicked in both towns were down to zero cases of transmission.  It's the best study we have as you obviously cannot do a randomized trial where some people don't wear masks and could be subject to infection.  Here is the paper if you are interested:  https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.02.20187021v2.full.pdf   It's also one of the reasons why Germany has been successful at controlling COVID-19 and the US has not.

[John Camp]

You're just telling us everything we knew about Trump when we hired him in 2016.  That he is a businessman with companies around the world.  That's why we elected him.  So he could help with our economy.  He did that.  That's why we need him to continue rather than hiring a guy who's been a politician all his life whose only private work was to use his position and influence as VP to get a job for his son in CHina and Ukraine.

"We" didn't hire him. An awkward, unequal, undemocratic electoral college put him in office, after a majority "We" decided to hire Clinton by almost 3,000,000 votes.

[PeterAit]

So he could help with our economy.  He did that. 

He most certainly did not. He inherited a robust and growing economy that started recovering in 2010 under Obama and the best one can say about Trump is that he did not screw it up (until this year). Giving him credit for the good economy 2017-2019 is one of the most asinine claims ever made in politics--and with Trump, that's saying a lot.

[James Clark]

People made their choice, to first attend and second to not wear a mask.  Choices have consequences.  This is what happened.  They all deal with it.  Freedom is kinda like that. 

That said Im a mask wearer.  But its not my job to police or mask shame those who dont.

BTW, I believe the Thursday event was a private fund raiser. 

On the upside, should Trump recover we will have a President for the next four years who "might" be immune from Covid. 

:/

Is,  “The President of the United States knows he has an active Covid infection and is here anyway without a mask so I gotta be careful...” a conclusion/factor a reasonable person should really be expected to consider?