US Elections 2020 (geopolitics, informed debate, no ad hominems)

Biden

14 (66.7%)

Trump

7 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Voting closed: November 02, 2020, 06:25:59 pm

[TechTalk]

Trump's 'plane loaded with thugs' conspiracy theory matches months-old rumor
Evidence-free social media posts about groups of people coming to terrorize suburbs have thrived in recent months, inspiring some people to arm themselves.

"The claim about the flight matches a viral Facebook post from June 1 that falsely claimed, “At least a dozen males got off the plane in Boise from Seattle, dressed head to toe in black.” The post, by an Emmett, Idaho, man, warned residents to “Be ready for attacks downtown and residential areas,” and claimed one passenger had “a tattoo that said Antifa America on his arm.”

That post was shared over 3,000 times on Facebook, and other pages from Idaho quickly added their own spin to it, like the Idaho branch of the far-right militia group 3 Percenters.

One post claimed that “Antifa has sent a plane load of their people” and that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office confirmed it. Within days, that version of the rumor picked up enough steam in Idaho Facebook groups that the Payette County Sheriff’s Office had to release a statement insisting that the viral rumor was “false information.”

Rumors of marauding bands of Antifa supporters have plagued local Facebook groups, chain emails and forwarded text messages since mid-May. One of the most viral rumors on an Antifa invasion into the suburbs was taken down after Twitter said it was created by a troll account with ties to white nationalists.

Some armed Americans took to town squares in several towns to fight off fictitious busloads of Antifa in June, spurred by false rumors on Facebook pages. Seven days after the original Idaho rumor went viral on Facebook, armed men stood guard over protests in Missoula, Montana, worried about the planeloads of Antifa supporters."

More at:

https://www.nbcnews.com/trump-s-plane-loaded-thugs-rumor-matches-months-old-facebook

https://www.nbcnews.com/klamath-falls-oregon-victory-declared-over-antifa-which-never-showed

[TechTalk]

2 militia members who went to Kenosha face gun charges

 "Two Missouri militia members who authorities say traveled to Kenosha, Wisconsin, with a cache of guns to see President Donald Trump’s visit in the wake of the police shooting of Jacob Blake are facing federal firearms charges, the U.S. attorney’s office in Milwaukee said.

The FBI arrested Michael Karmo and Cody Smith at a hotel in Pleasant Prairie, about 7 miles (11 kilometers) from Kenosha, on Tuesday, the same day that Trump visited the area to tour businesses that were damaged amid unrest that followed the Aug. 23 shooting of Blake, a 29-year-old Black man. The agents found an AR-15-style rifle, a shotgun, two handguns, ammunition and other tactical gear, according to a criminal complaint.

Both men had criminal records that meant they could not legally possess firearms, according to federal prosecutors.

Federal investigators said Smith and Karmo, who were roommates, drove from Hartville, Missouri, for Trump’s visit and to see the damage in Kenosha. Karmo told investigators that they worked together and were a part of a Missouri militia.

The FBI was alerted to the men by an Iowa law enforcement agency that passed along a tip from an acquaintance of the men. The acquaintance said the men were traveling to Kenosha with guns to steal from businesses and possibly “pick people off,” according to a criminal complaint.

Karmo told investigators the men also planned to go to Portland, Oregon, where protests have erupted daily since George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis in May after an officer pressed a knee into the Black man’s neck for nearly eight minutes."

More at:

https://apnews.com/2 militia members who went to Kenosha face gun charges

[Craig Lamson]

Lara Logan, the Fox ‘Investigative Journalist’ Who Keeps Falling for Antifa Hoaxes

"The key “investigative journalist” lending credibility to Fox News’ incessant coverage of an alleged “antifa” insurgency has frequently promoted obvious hoaxes about her supposed area of expertise.

Lara Logan, an award-winning former CBS News correspondent who joined Fox News as a host on their online-streaming service Fox Nation last year and has been billed an “investigative journalist” by herself and in promos, has become a fixture of the network’s coverage of the loosely organized anti-fascist movement.

But a review of Logan’s reporting—both online and on Fox News—shows a clear pattern of repeatedly falling for obvious hoaxes and passing along eye-popping but completely unsubstantiated claims.

Fox News and Logan didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Logan posted a picture of a tweet purporting to come from a national antifa group threatening to terrorize majority-white neighborhoods. The tweet she cited read: “Tonight’s the night, Comrades...Tonight we say ‘F**k The City’ and we move into the residential areas... the white hoods.... and we take what’s ours,” along with a black raised-fist emoji.

That tweet turned out to have come from a fake account linked to white-nationalist group Identity Europa posing as antifa while calling for violence. The fake antifa account even included the acronym “I.E.” in its logo, a clear reference to its ties to Identity Europa.

After being called out for credulously passing along two hoaxes, Logan did not correct, update, or delete either tweet, instead lashing out at critics as waging a smear campaign to “destroy” her. There can be “no doubt,” she wrote, that liberal media-monitoring group Media Matters for America had “marshaled their army & all their resources” against her. (In 2013, Media Matters exposed Logan’s false 60 Minutes reporting on Benghazi, which resulted in a retraction, an on-air apology from Logan, and a leave of absence.)

Several days after posting the fake antifa tweets, Logan would again fall for another hoax—this time taking an obvious joke about rap-loving clowns as serious proof of an antifa conspiracy.

As a joke, one Twitter user wrote a thread connecting antifa to costume-wearing furries, Korean pop listeners, and the rowdy, soda-chugging fans of horrorcore rap duo Insane Clown Posse, who call themselves “juggalos” and dress up in clown makeup.

Even as Logan struggles to discern disinformation and parody from verifiable evidence, Fox News has repeatedly touted Logan’s expertise on antifa during her on-air appearances."

More at:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/lara-logan-the-fox-nation-investigative-journalist-who-keeps-falling-for-antifa-hoaxes

And yet the protestors, call them Antifa or BLM or whatever did take to the neighborhoods.  Imagine that.  Talk to the McCloskeys.

[Craig Lamson]

2 militia members who went to Kenosha face gun charges

 "Two Missouri militia members who authorities say traveled to Kenosha, Wisconsin, with a cache of guns to see President Donald Trump’s visit in the wake of the police shooting of Jacob Blake are facing federal firearms charges, the U.S. attorney’s office in Milwaukee said.

The FBI arrested Michael Karmo and Cody Smith at a hotel in Pleasant Prairie, about 7 miles (11 kilometers) from Kenosha, on Tuesday, the same day that Trump visited the area to tour businesses that were damaged amid unrest that followed the Aug. 23 shooting of Blake, a 29-year-old Black man. The agents found an AR-15-style rifle, a shotgun, two handguns, ammunition and other tactical gear, according to a criminal complaint.

Both men had criminal records that meant they could not legally possess firearms, according to federal prosecutors.

Federal investigators said Smith and Karmo, who were roommates, drove from Hartville, Missouri, for Trump’s visit and to see the damage in Kenosha. Karmo told investigators that they worked together and were a part of a Missouri militia.

The FBI was alerted to the men by an Iowa law enforcement agency that passed along a tip from an acquaintance of the men. The acquaintance said the men were traveling to Kenosha with guns to steal from businesses and possibly “pick people off,” according to a criminal complaint.

Karmo told investigators the men also planned to go to Portland, Oregon, where protests have erupted daily since George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis in May after an officer pressed a knee into the Black man’s neck for nearly eight minutes."

More at:

https://apnews.com/2 militia members who went to Kenosha face gun charges

Two, compared to how many  “skateboarders in Black”?

[Alan Klein]

Oops.  He forgot.

[chez]

Oops.  He forgot.

As long as he doesn't touch his face and washes his hands...he's good. Both wearing a mask is the best defence here.

[Alan Klein]

As long as he doesn't touch his face and washes his hands...he's good. Both wearing a mask is the best defence here.

He won't remember to not touch his face. He couldn't remember to not shake hands.

[chez]

He won't remember to not touch his face. He couldn't remember to not shake hands.

Actually it's a habit that one quickly learns to not do. Personally I'm very conscious of not touching my face when I'm out doing things like shopping. Constantly use hand disinfectants whenever I see them and religiously wash my hands when I get home.

There is no defence against not wearing a mask when you are in close contact which is the highest cause of transmission. One is very selfish not to wear a mask if they know they'll be in close contact with people.

[Alan Klein]

Actually it's a habit that one quickly learns to not do. Personally I'm very conscious of not touching my face when I'm out doing things like shopping. Constantly use hand disinfectants whenever I see them and religiously wash my hands when I get home.

There is no defence against not wearing a mask when you are in close contact which is the highest cause of transmission. One is very selfish not to wear a mask if they know they'll be in close contact with people.

That's where you draw the line.  Some people feel you're selfish if you don't wear a mask all the time you're out.  Are you selfish?

[Robert Roaldi]

That's where you draw the line.  Some people feel you're selfish if you don't wear a mask all the time you're out.  Are you selfish?

Are you running out of talking points?

[Alan Klein]

Yeah.  I'm getting bored.  Need to get out and shoot pictures. 

[Alan Klein]

OK. Here's one I took the other slow day in NYC.   He's one of the three black Americans who's going to vote for Trump.   

[chez]

That's where you draw the line.  Some people feel you're selfish if you don't wear a mask all the time you're out.  Are you selfish?

I wear a mask when I'm going to be in close contact with people. When I take my dog for a walk I don't wear a mask because I can distance myself from other people. Going to a store, yep mask on.

[Alan Klein]

I wear a mask when I'm going to be in close contact with people. When I take my dog for a walk I don't wear a mask because I can distance myself from other people. Going to a store, yep mask on.

There are some people who think you should wear it all the time you're out.  They feel you're selfish if you don't. 

My point is everyone draws the line differently.  Some people think the economy should be open more even if the risk of infection and sickness and death goes up.  They feel that loss of their business or job is more critical than the extra chance of getting Covid.  How are they selfish?  Don't they have a right to eat and feed and house their families?  Wouldn't it be selfish of those who insist they stop working instead and become homeless and hungry?  Why do people on the left and socialists always bring up selfishness - of others? They never can see the broader view that self-interest and standards affect everyone's line drawing. 

[TechTalk]

This week Trump repeatedly made the incredibly stupid recommendation that voters should try to vote twice, once by mail and then again in person to test whether their mail-in ballot had been counted. Unless a mail-in ballot has already been invalidated, you will be commiting a Federal felony by attempting to vote again in person. The Federal penalty is up to five years in prison. There are also State laws that prohibit this.

Also, states have differing laws regarding when mail-in ballots can be processed and when the processed ballots may be counted.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/when-absentee-mail-ballot-processing-and-counting-can-begin

Elections officials and voting experts say President Donald Trump gave bad advice when he encouraged mail-in voters to show up at polling places on Election Day and cast an in-person ballot if poll workers can’t confirm that their mail-in ballot was received.

It is unnecessary, will likely cause long delays at polling places, and could be illegal. In many states, poll workers will not know whether a mail-in ballot has been received and accepted.

Voting officials say those are far better methods to check whether your mail-in ballot has been accepted than to show up at the polling place on Election Day.

“I would not say that many precincts have the ability to tell a voter whether their ballot has been received AND accepted for counting,” Lonna Atkeson, a political science professor at the University of New Mexico and an expert in election administration, told us via email. “Some places might be able to tell you that, some places might be able to tell you it was received. A lot of places, most I would say, wouldn’t have that information at all.”

Perhaps one of the most troubling concerns, voting experts say, is that Trump’s advice could wreak Election Day havoc.

If people take Trump’s advice in large numbers on Election Day, it is likely to “gum up the works” at polling places and result in long lines at the polls, Weil told us.

“Lines are already going to be long in some places on Election Day,” Hasen said in his piece for Slate. “The pandemic means it is harder to find poll workers and so there will be polling place consolidations and fewer workers, all contributing to a longer queue. Trump’s suggestion for his supporters to go to a polling place to try to vote twice—and via a complex procedure of trying to get a poll worker to confirm that an absentee ballot has been tabulated, which in some cases it will not have been—will add to those long lines. … Those long lines will do real damage to an Election Day infrastructure that is already looking stretched to the limits.” 

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/trumps-bad-advice-for-mail-in-voters/        https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/09/donald-trump-vote-twice-election-day-chaos.html

A voter in Texas attempted to vote twice for Trump in 2016 and was immediately arrested and charged with a felony. He told authorities that he was "helping the Trump campaign and testing election security".  https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/11/08/sheriff-man-arrested-for-trying-to-vote-twice/  https://www.click2houston.com/news/2016/11/09/man-arrested-after-trying-to-vote-twice-in-fort-bend-county-officials-say/

A woman in Iowa also attempted to vote twice for Trump in 2016. She told police she believed Trump’s claims that the election was rigged and she feared her first ballot would be changed to a vote for Hillary Clinton. She received two years of probation on a felony charge.  https://apnews.com/Iowa woman who tried to vote twice for Trump gets probation

The efforts to sow confusion, chaos, delay, and distrust in the election system is designed to cast doubt in the legitimacy of the election, in the minds of Trump supporters, in the event of a Biden win and is naturally being mirrored and amplified by Russian Intelligence operations.

Russia has sought to “amplify” concerns over the integrity of U.S. elections by promoting allegations that mail-in voting will lead to widespread fraud, according to an intelligence bulletin obtained by ABC News, again echoing a frequent and unfounded complaint raised by President Donald Trump.

Analysts with the Department of Homeland Security’s intelligence branch issued the warning on Thursday to federal and state law enforcement partners after finding with “high confidence” that “Russian malign influence actors” have targeted the absentee voting process “by spreading disinformation” since at least March.

John Cohen, the former undersecretary for intelligence at DHS under President Barack Obama, said the parallel messages emanating from both the Trump campaign and Russian malign actors is “highly disturbing.”

“This most recent DHS intelligence report along with other recent reporting by intelligence and law enforcement entities should put to rest any doubts that Russia is spreading conspiracy theories and lies in an effort to influence the outcome of the 2020 election by undermining confidence in the election process and influence voter opinion,” said Cohen, who is also an ABC News contributor.

https://abcnews.go.com/russia-amplifying-claims-mail-voter-fraud-intel-bulletin

[Craig Lamson]

This week Trump repeatedly made the incredibly stupid recommendation that voters should try to vote twice, once by mail and then again in person to test whether their mail-in ballot had been counted. Unless a mail-in ballot has already been invalidated, you will be commiting a Federal felony by attempting to vote again in person. The Federal penalty is up to five years in prison. There are also State laws that prohibit this.

Also, states have differing laws regarding when mail-in ballots can be processed and when the processed ballots may be counted.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/when-absentee-mail-ballot-processing-and-counting-can-begin

A voter in Texas attempted to vote twice for Trump in 2016 and was immediately arrested and charged with a felony. He told authorities that he was "helping the Trump campaign and testing election security".  https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2016/11/08/sheriff-man-arrested-for-trying-to-vote-twice/  https://www.click2houston.com/news/2016/11/09/man-arrested-after-trying-to-vote-twice-in-fort-bend-county-officials-say/

A woman in Iowa also attempted to vote twice for Trump in 2016. She told police she believed Trump’s claims that the election was rigged and she feared her first ballot would be changed to a vote for Hillary Clinton. She received two years of probation on a felony charge.  https://apnews.com/Iowa woman who tried to vote twice for Trump gets probation

The efforts to sow confusion, chaos, delay, and distrust in the election system is designed to cast doubt in the legitimacy of the election, in the minds of Trump supporters, in the event of a Biden win and is naturally being mirrored and amplified by Russian Intelligence operations.

Trump trolls, liberal heads explode...

[TechTalk]

An opinion piece regarding The Atlantic article on Trump's disrespect for war dead and soldier's sacrifices. https://www.theatlantic.com/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers

Trump Defenders Suggest Blockbuster Report of Trump Insulting War Dead Will be Retracted — But Then AP Reporter Confirms It

"Whenever a new report comes out that President Donald Trump said or did something rude, dumb, or embarrassing, his supporters engage in a tediously predictable cycle: 1) they insist it did not happen (“Fake news!”), 2) they claim Trump was just joking (Poe’s Law), 3) they argue it doesn’t matter, 4) they say even if you think it matters, it’s not a big deal because the really bad people are the Democrats/the media/Hollywood celebrities/whoever Trump is mad at today, and then finally 5) some new awful story pops up to grab everyone’s attention and the cycle starts anew."

https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/trump-defenders-suggest-blockbuster-report-of-trump-insulting-war-dead-will-be-retracted-but-then-ap-reporter-confirms-it/

Much of the reporting contained in The Atlantic article has now been independently confirmed by AP, Fox News, and the Washington Post

https://apnews.com/Report: Trump disparaged US war dead as ‘losers,’ ‘suckers’

Fox Video https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-correspondent-two-top-officials-who-were-on-france-trip-with-trump-confirmed-to-me-key-details-of-atlantic-report/

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/National Security Correspondent for @FoxNews/Trump Disparaged Veterans

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-said-us-soldiers-injured-and-killed-in-war-were-losers-magazine-reports/2020/09/03/

[Alan Klein]

I've complained about liberal, anti-Trump Democrat, The Atlantic magazine here many times.  I saw an interview with the editor, Jeff Goldberg,  a few months or a year back that confirmed how much he hates Trump.   So it's not surprising that right before the election they came up with a phoney story feeding on certain things Trump has said long before he became president. He opposed the Vietnam War and Iraq War.  He thought people were foolish who supported it.  They were stupid wars. But the damage charge that he supposedly said at D DAy was not confirmed by anyone.  He didn't go to the cemetery ceremonies because his helicopter was grounded due to bad weather.  Even John Bolton who wrote a nasty book about Trump and who was at the D-Day ceremonies with Trump, confirmed that he said nothing of the sort and that the ceremony trip was shut down because of bad weather.

[TechTalk]

Latest Presidential election poll of active-duty service members by MilitaryTimes.com. Poll was conducted in late July and early August before the conventions.

Trump’s popularity slips in latest Military Times poll — and more troops say they’ll vote for Biden

"The latest Military Times poll shows a continued decline in active-duty service members’ views of President Donald Trump and a slight but significant preference for former Vice President Joe Biden in the upcoming November election among troops surveyed.

But the Military Times Polls, surveying active-duty troops in partnership with the Institute for Veterans and Military Families (IVMF) at Syracuse University, have seen a steady drop in troops’ opinion of the commander in chief since his election four years ago.

In the latest results — based on 1,018 active-duty troops surveyed in late July and early August — nearly half of respondents (49.9 percent) had an unfavorable view of the president, compared to about 38 percent who had a favorable view. Questions in the poll had a margin of error of up to 2 percent.

Among all survey participants, 42 percent said they “strongly” disapprove of Trump’s time in office.

Among active-duty service members surveyed in the poll, 41 percent said they would vote for Biden, the Democratic nominee, if the election was held today. Only 37 percent said they plan to vote to re-elect Trump.

Another 13 percent said they plan to vote for a third-party candidate, and nearly 9 percent said they plan on skipping the election altogether. About 40 percent of troops surveyed identified as Republican or Libertarian, 16 percent Democrats, and 44 percent independent or another party."

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2020/08/31/as-trumps-popularity-slips-in-latest-military-times-poll-more-troops-say-theyll-vote-for-biden/

[Craig Lamson]

I've complained about liberal, anti-Trump Democrat, The Atlantic magazine here many times.  I saw an interview with the editor, Jeff Goldberg,  a few months or a year back that confirmed how much he hates Trump.   So it's not surprising that right before the election they came up with a phoney story feeding on certain things Trump has said long before he became president. He opposed the Vietnam War and Iraq War.  He thought people were foolish who supported it.  They were stupid wars. But the damage charge that he supposedly said at D DAy was not confirmed by anyone.  He didn't go to the cemetery ceremonies because his helicopter was grounded due to bad weather.  Even John Bolton who wrote a nasty book about Trump and who was at the D-Day ceremonies with Trump, confirmed that he said nothing of the sort and that the ceremony trip was shut down because of bad weather.

Good job news, voting starting, Biden losing ground in the polls (loser?)... A perfect time to launch a smear.  The story keeps shifting.  Bolton destroyed the first narrative.  Time to move the goalposts.  And they did.   

Now did Trump hate McCain?  Oh yea as did a good part of Trumps base.  This has been well known for years.  Asking Kelly  why men go to war and die...a perfectly reasonable question.  Calling troops losers and suckers?  That one is quite problematic for the smear mongers.  But say it loud  enough without proof and those so inclined will believe it. 

It will be something else next week.  And the week after.  And the week after.  Will it move the needle?  I don’t think so.