The Myth of Systemic Racism

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

In order not to derail the already outdated thread on the Chinese virus, i am starting the much more interesting, more contemporary one on the riots and looting.

The same guys who are currently engaged in violence and criminal behavior are apparently protesting against being stereotyped for violence and criminal behavior. You can't make this stuff up.

"African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population...a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883?fbclid=IwAR2WHH-XRXHspvqV_doNUv7Tai68Eo6jfO70LTFvgEwt_pQ--XOtxkvE61I

[James Clark]

I though the links was clear, but, ok... 

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

This link contains data from an ongoing Stanford study of outcomes from police interactions with blacks and Hispanics, compared to whites. 

[kers]

In order not to derail the already outdated thread on the Chinese virus, i am starting the much more interesting, more contemporary one on the riots and looting.

The same guys who are currently engaged in violence and criminal behavior are apparently protesting against being stereotyped for violence and criminal behavior. You can't make this stuff up.

The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883?fbclid=IwAR2WHH-XRXHspvqV_doNUv7Tai68Eo6jfO70LTFvgEwt_pQ--XOtxkvE61I

show me ( us ) the statistics- the source...
I am not willing to sign in and to read the article...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

show me ( us ) the statistics- the source...

I did show you the statistics, but I will repeat:

"African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population...a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

The source is in the article. Sorry if you can not read it.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Here are the links mentioned in the article, for those who can not read the WSJ:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877: Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

https://www.phillypolice.com/assets/directives/cops-w0753-pub.pdf: An Assessment of Deadly Force in the Philadelphia Police Department

[James Clark]

Here are the links mentioned in the article, for those who can not read the WSJ:

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877: Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

https://www.phillypolice.com/assets/directives/cops-w0753-pub.pdf: An Assessment of Deadly Force in the Philadelphia Police Department

These do nothing to disprove the existence of systemic racism.  At best they attempt to justify it.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

These do nothing to disprove the existence of systemic racism.  At best they attempt to justify it.

 

It would be a systemic racism if blacks are 25% of the victims of police killings (while 13% demographics) and there is no other factor to explain it, but the skin color. But there is another factor: being disproportionally engaged in criminal behavior and disproportionally being cop killers.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Army on Washington DC streets today:

[James Clark]

It would be a systemic racism if blacks are 25% of the victims of police killings (while 13% demographics) and there is no other factor to explain it, but the skin color. But there is another factor: being disproportionally engaged in criminal behavior and disproportionally being cop killers.

Begging the question...  A system that disproportionately stops, arrests, accuses, and convicts based on race cannot use the number of those tainted convictions to escape accusations of bias.  Go check out the Stanford data and get back to me...

[Robert Roaldi]

In order not to derail the already outdated thread on the Chinese virus, i am starting the much more interesting, more contemporary one on the riots and looting.

The same guys who are currently engaged in violence and criminal behavior are apparently protesting against being stereotyped for violence and criminal behavior. You can't make this stuff up.

The Myth of Systemic Police Racism

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883?fbclid=IwAR2WHH-XRXHspvqV_doNUv7Tai68Eo6jfO70LTFvgEwt_pQ--XOtxkvE61I

In that other thread, you made statements that more or less asserted that the Houston police chief must be a liberal (or Democrat supporter) because of his Hispanic family background (Cuban rather than Mexican, in his case). That wasn't your exact phrasing but it's the meaning that I took away. How do you square that position with the idea that there is no such thing as systemic racism?

This is doubly confusing to me because given the year that the police chief's parents left Cuba for the US, 1968, there was a pretty chance that his parents were not Castro supporters, so possibly not liberal-minded at all. Also, Mr. Acevedo has pursued a long career in law enforcement, not your typical liberal occupation (although that's a bit presumptuous on my part, isn't it).

[Rob C]

I though the links was clear, but, ok... 

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

This link contains data from an ongoing Stanford study of outcomes from police interactions with blacks and Hispanics, compared to whites.

James, those graphs! I had to desist at the MaryJane ones: all those spikes were too much for my eyes to cope with and made me think that perhaps that's what a bad trip looks like.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... How do you square that position with the idea that there is no such thing as systemic racism?...

I am not sure I understand the question? What does that sheriff have to do with "systemic racism" (I am putting it in quotation marks as I take the position it doesn't exist)?

Had I known he is Cuban, I probably wouldn't say what I said, as I would have the same preconception as you have, i.e., that he might be more of an anti communist as a Cuban fleeing Castro. I guess being raised through the US school system dominated by liberals can easily change the parental influence. An exception among Cubans, I'd say. Though, in all fairness, I am not aware of any stats regarding party affiliation among Cuban Americans. Maybe it is 50/50, I don't know.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Begging the question...  A system that disproportionately stops, arrests, accuses, and convicts based on race cannot use the number of those tainted convictions to escape accusations of bias.  Go check out the Stanford data and get back to me...

The Stanford study just confirms what I posted in these forums several years ago: the observer effect - "the theory that the mere observation of a phenomenon inevitably changes that phenomenon." In other words, knowing that cops will observe them, that they will be stopped and frisked and their car searched, changes their behavior into not carrying drugs or guns with them. So the results are not proving they are less criminal, just that they are more cautious of being caught red handed.

[Rob C]

This promises to be a chicken v. egg debate.

It makes me think of the situation where guys of Middle Eastern appearance object and claim victimisation because they get searched at airports. Duh! Who else is likely to be carrying explosives aboard? How many cases have been reported of other people trying to commit suicide and murder by aircraft apart, that is, from the German nutcase who was in fear of losing his job because of failing eyesight and took it upon himself to dive into a mountain? Unfortunately, the rest of us are now saddled with the same travelling inconveniences of searches. It's one of the reason I no longer fly and if I can't go somewhere by car don't bother. No, I am not obsessed with a fear of flying. I have flown quite a lot. As passenger, I hasten to add, in case even that gets twisted.

:-)

[Rob C]

There are lots of police stoppings here in Mallorca. I have been stopped (my daughter was passenger) on my birthday, of all days, but I see no problem with that. They check your licence, your current ITV/MOT certificate and for a valid insurance policy. Seems a good thing to do and keeps car owners a little more honest.

I was once pulled over by a local cop on a scooter because he mistook my US vanity plate for a licence plate. By the time he realise he'd screwed up and that all he was looking at was a website address, it was too late for both of us and he couldn't allow himself to back down. So he "advised" me to remove it.

C'est la guerre.

[James Clark]

The Stanford study just confirms what I posted in these forums several years ago: the observer effect - "the theory that the mere observation of a phenomenon inevitably changes that phenomenon." In other words, knowing that cops will observe them, that they will be stopped and frisked and their car searched, changes their behavior into not carrying drugs or guns with them. So the results are not proving they are less criminal, just that they are more cautious of being caught red handed.

So.. the fact that they are caught committing MORE crimes is proof they are guilty, and the fact that they are caught committing FEWER crimes is ALSO proof that they are guilty.  Got it.

[James Clark]

In that other thread, you made statements that more or less asserted that the Houston police chief must be a liberal (or Democrat supporter) because of his Hispanic family background (Cuban rather than Mexican, in his case). That wasn't your exact phrasing but it's the meaning that I took away. How do you square that position with the idea that there is no such thing as systemic racism?

This is doubly confusing to me because given the year that the police chief's parents left Cuba for the US, 1968, there was a pretty chance that his parents were not Castro supporters, so possibly not liberal-minded at all. Also, Mr. Acevedo has pursued a long career in law enforcement, not your typical liberal occupation (although that's a bit presumptuous on my part, isn't it).

Art is not a friend or personal acquaintance of mine, but he is both to many in my close circle of friends.  He was highly regarded across the spectrum when he was Chief here in Austin.  The idea that he's just "a Mexican that hates Trump" is patently absurd, and I'd suggest you devote no more time to arguing with sort of stupid assertion.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So.. the fact that they are caught committing MORE crimes is proof they are guilty, and the fact that they are caught committing FEWER crimes is ALSO proof that they are guilty.  Got it.

Do not twist it. Nobody said that when they are caught with nothing they are guilty. Just that stop & frisk policy and car searches act as a deterrent of crime.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...

[Rob C]

Good grief! Did anyone notice that the wicked shoe is blatantly white?