Any real measurement data on mirrorless sensor heating?

[Frans Waterlander]

Yes. And the reason for it should be obvious.

And what, if I may ask, is this obvious reason?

[Frans Waterlander]

Yup, in RawDigger (a must have tool), my Sony shows the following (I've filtered EXIF for "Ambient"):

And how does this compute the dynamic range?

[digitaldog]

And, if I may ask, is this obvious reason?

And off we go again.... 
Warning Will Robinson, warning.

[digitaldog]

As you can see Mr DP, he can’t help himself or take your advise. Or anyone who’s reply doesn’t fit the (ObamaGate) agenda.

And how does this compute the dynamic range?

Advise ignored as expected. 
Silly questions that were never part of the discussion of getting temp from a camera's Metadata asked.

Good advise!

don't waste time on Andrew

[digitaldog]

And how does this compute the dynamic range?

https://www.imatest.com/solutions/dynamic-range/
And off you go; test your camera! You know NOW how to get an Ambient temp, part 1.
You have a lot to study in the URL above to get part 2.
Do your own work, if you can, come back and tell us about real measurement data on mirrorless sensor heating. 

[RichDesmond]

And what, if I may ask, is this obvious reason?

Why do sensor tests get done, and posted on the internet?

[Frans Waterlander]

Why do sensor tests get done, and posted on the internet?

So people have information to compare cameras, have some idea of what to expect, base buy decisions on? Could we change the MO from questions to answers? Yes?

[digitaldog]

Could we change the MO from questions to answers? Yes?

Take your pick (but all have come from the deep state so.... )
All cameras can over heat.
No cameras over heat until they do.
Your undefined camera (do you have a mirrorless camera and if so which one?) can over heat. You can avoid over heating if you try.
Don't store your camera in a 400 degree convection oven. 
Maybe you should consider film. I always kept my film the refrigerator. Do let you film warm up.

[Frans Waterlander]

https://www.imatest.com/solutions/dynamic-range/
And off you go; test your camera! You know NOW how to get an Ambient temp, part 1.
You have a lot to study in the URL above to get part 2.
Do your own work, if you can, come back and tell us about real measurement data on mirrorless sensor heating. 

It appears that reading and understanding are not your strongest assets. If you want to make a positive contribution here, then go back to my initial post, read it carefully and let us know where to find the noise increase/dynamic range degradation test data for mirrorless cameras caused by sensor heating as a result of extended live view and video recording at various ambient temperatures.

[digitaldog]

It appears that reading and understanding are not your strongest assets.

I could say the same of you after this exchange:

Good advise!

don't waste time on Andrew

Whatever site might be provided with advise, if it didn't follow your predetermined expectations, you'd tell us it wasn't a positive contribution. Many of us saw this a year ago on another forum after 10 pages of this silliness.
Nothing has changed since them. 

[Frans Waterlander]

I could say the same of you after this exchange:

Reread my previous post.

[digitaldog]

Reread my previous post.

CWOBaT (colossal waste of bandwidth and time).

[RichDesmond]

So people have information to compare cameras, have some idea of what to expect, base buy decisions on? Could we change the MO from questions to answers? Yes?

Do they do this out of the goodness of their hearts?

[Jim Kasson]

A while back I tried to get hard data on sensor heating in mirrorless cameras and resulting noise increase/dynamic range decrease. I contacted DxoMark and a German test house, but they simply said they don't let the sensor heat up when doing noise/DR testing.
So, from where I sit, there are only the dire warnings in user manuals and the "I don't see a problem" from mirrorless camera users.

Anybody aware of real data?

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/a7rii-self-heating-for-long-exposures/

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/a7r-self-heating-for-long-exposures/

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100/gfx-100-self-heating-read-noise-and-edr/

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riv-self-heating-read-noise-changes/

Jim

[digitaldog]

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/a7rii-self-heating-for-long-exposures/

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/a7r-self-heating-for-long-exposures/

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100/gfx-100-self-heating-read-noise-and-edr/

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riv-self-heating-read-noise-changes/

Jim

Jim: Frans has already been there and dismissed your excellent reporting, (odd he doesn't recall this either or here that he apparently (?) did examine Bill Claff) but then you didn't tell him what he wants to hear:

Frans Waterlander says
September 13, 2019 at 2:44 pm

Thanks for running this test, Jim!

It looks like self heating isn’t an issue for this camera. I do have some observations:
– You measured an EDR of about 11.7, while Bill Claff measured a PDR of 12.3; isn’t PDR supposed to be lower than EDR? It would hope that the manufacturing process unit-to-unit variations would not explain this difference
– If the sensor would not be active during part of the 30 second cycle, you could improve the test by taking fewer shots
– What would be worse: using the monitor or EVF, photography mode or video mode?
– It doesn’t look like equilibrium was reached after one hour

While these results are encouraging for this particular, expensive, $10,000 camera , they don’t tell us to what to expect for other cameras.

Jim; please now test every mirrorless sensor on the market and please report back ASAP to Frans. 

[Frans Waterlander]

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/a7rii-self-heating-for-long-exposures/

https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/a7r-self-heating-for-long-exposures/

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100/gfx-100-self-heating-read-noise-and-edr/

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riv-self-heating-read-noise-changes/

Jim

Those tests are mostly aimed at astrophotography and don't cause a lot of sensor heating. Having live view on and shooting video for extended periods of time (when shooting sports events, etc.) would cause way more heating and dynamic range degradation.

[digitaldog]

It would cause way more heating and dynamic range degradation?
You seem sure so you answered your own question as you wanted.
Hopefully we are done (all bets are off however 😜)

[Frans Waterlander]

It would cause way more heating and dynamic range degradation?
You seem sure so you answered your own question as you wanted.
Hopefully we are done (all bets are off however 😜)

I know you may have an issue with keeping on point, but I'm still looking for real measurement data, not snide remarks.

[digitaldog]

I know you may have an issue with keeping on point, but I'm still looking for real measurement data, not snide remarks.

So you never found measurement data, but you're absolutely certain, because you said (copy and paste): Having live view on and shooting video for extended periods of time (when shooting sports events, etc.) would cause way more heating and dynamic range degradation.
I have to believe you have actual data to back that up otherwise, it's another of your assumptions about ALL mirrorless sensor heating. So which is it sir?
Seems asking you to prove yourself is very on point. 

[Frans Waterlander]

So you never found measurement data, but you're absolutely certain, because you said (copy and paste): Having live view on and shooting video for extended periods of time (when shooting sports events, etc.) would cause way more heating and dynamic range degradation.
I have to believe you have actual data to back that up otherwise, it's another of your assumptions about ALL mirrorless sensor heating. So which is it sir?
Seems asking you to prove yourself is very on point. 

Do your homework and read the warnings in user manuals, mirrorless and DSLR's alike. Both types of cameras have higher levels of power dissipation in live view and video modes, the difference being that with DSLR's you can opt to use the optical viewfinder and thus lower power dissipations, while with MILC's you have to use live view. More power dissipation means higher temperatures, means higher noise, means lower dynamic range.