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Author Topic: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner  (Read 5407 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2020, 01:18:55 am »

I went into the properties of the file and set myself to allow all changes instead of just Read.  No difference.

Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2020, 01:19:46 am »

I shortened the name figuring there wasn't enough room in the lines.  No difference.  Any ideas?

degrub

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2020, 08:07:59 am »

Maybe review Epson and i1 support pages ? Did you find the Epson default profile location ?
Which program is the Install run from ?

The only other thing i can think of is to try running the programs as “admin” or perhaps checking one of the compatibility check boxes for the *.exe file.

It may be that the Windows CMM is not recognizing the file if Epson is not using their own CMM but using Windows CMM.

Beyond that i have no idea.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2020, 10:42:29 am »

Maybe review Epson and i1 support pages ? Did you find the Epson default profile location ?
Which program is the Install run from ?

The only other thing i can think of is to try running the programs as “admin” or perhaps checking one of the compatibility check boxes for the *.exe file.

It may be that the Windows CMM is not recognizing the file if Epson is not using their own CMM but using Windows CMM.

Beyond that i have no idea.

Attached is a view of the C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color folder.  It shows the one created transparency ICC that I made.  I deleted all the others. Interestingly, now there is only one blank line in ICM Source in the Configuration section.  There were five blanks for the five ICC profiles I created. So it seems that the scanner is seeing the profile even though here's no name.  I tried scanning both the blank like setting and the Epson Standard.  But I didn;t see any difference in the scan file results.

What does which program is the Install run from mean?

What's Windows CMM vs Epson's?

Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2020, 11:04:04 am »

OK I think I found the Epson scanners ICC profiles.  It's in the same folder as above.  They're called perv800f (for film) and perv800r (for reflective).  Attached is a screen shot of both files opened by Wordpad.

So it seems my ICC profile is in the same folder.  It's just that the name doesn;t display for some reason.

So let's assume it's there but not labelled.  I can select it.  How do I set up the other parameters to scan?

Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2020, 11:08:05 am »

I just relaized that those ICC's are for the selection for whether you're scanning documents or negatives.  Not sure now where the Configuration ICC is.

degrub

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2020, 12:00:03 pm »

limit the file name to 8 characters same as the Epson in length and character types used alpha and numbers only
You may have to re-create the profile as i think the name is embedded in the profile as well.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2020, 11:11:55 pm »

limit the file name to 8 characters same as the Epson in length and character types used alpha and numbers only
You may have to re-create the profile as i think the name is embedded in the profile as well.
I shortened the file name but it didn't work.  Then the next day, I started up the computer and scanner and there they were.  So now I have both the transparency profile selection and named as well as the reflectives one.  Thanks much.

So I tried scanning the color transparency the Xrite came with and it seems the color results look the same with either sRGB or Monitor RGB Source using the transparency Xrite profile.  Regular Velvia film you can leave the it without changing but because the film is different, for some reason, the setting for the histogram are wider than the actual data.  You can pull in the white and black points before the Epsonscan or do it in post processing. 

Frankly, you can use Epson Scan source rather than the profiles and just calibrate by eye to a calibrated monitor after the scan. It gets you pretty close.  Unless you trying to copy some clothes color for a business brochure, it's the photographer who interprets t anyways.  Of course a calibrated monitor makes it easier otherwise you might be off with your eye.   I tried Portra 400 negative color and did not have any problem with orange masks.

The medium format film holders are terrible if you shoot 6x7's.  I'll start another thread for that.  Thanks everyone.

degrub

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2020, 07:03:10 am »

Restarting the pc allowed windows cmm to recognize the name.

BetterScanning holders solved some of the issues with Epson’s for films. Maybe they are still around. Search on Epson 850 film holders and you will get a lot of hits.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #69 on: May 09, 2020, 07:50:45 am »

I also recall that Epsonscan did an auto update to Rev 3.9.3.4.  So maybe that resolved the problem too. 

Here is a screen shot of the ICM selection in Configuration showing the two new selections for Chromes and Prints.

degrub

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2020, 09:58:46 am »

Yeah, it is old software. Likely written originally written when file names were restricted to 8 characters plus 3 character type extension.
When i saw all the other names in the directory listing, that is what triggered the memory. 
Glad it is workable for you.

On not noticing any real difference between Epson sRGB and using the profile i1 generated + the Spectraview monitor profile, that may be because the i1 profile colour patches fall within the sRGB colour space. I don’t know for sure off hand.

When you are adjusting images, you want to work in a colour space that is larger than what you plan to output to. The working colour space for the image editing program  is different from your device profile usually. AdobeRGB1998 can be ok and is larger than sRGB. ProPhoto is another commonly used. If you are printing or displaying on wide gamut devices, this can matter. If you are only outputting to the web, it may not make much difference as sRGB is assumed for internet and almost all monitors.

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Alan Klein

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Re: Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2020, 10:51:34 am »

Yeah, it is old software. Likely written originally written when file names were restricted to 8 characters plus 3 character type extension.
When i saw all the other names in the directory listing, that is what triggered the memory. 
Glad it is workable for you.

On not noticing any real difference between Epson sRGB and using the profile i1 generated + the Spectraview monitor profile, that may be because the i1 profile colour patches fall within the sRGB colour space. I don’t know for sure off hand.

When you are adjusting images, you want to work in a colour space that is larger than what you plan to output to. The working colour space for the image editing program  is different from your device profile usually. AdobeRGB1998 can be ok and is larger than sRGB. ProPhoto is another commonly used. If you are printing or displaying on wide gamut devices, this can matter. If you are only outputting to the web, it may not make much difference as sRGB is assumed for internet and almost all monitors.


Yes, the 8 characters could have done it.  Thanks.

I have my NEC PA242W monitor calibrated with Spectraview II for sRGB because I put my digitally captured and scanned film photos up on the web.  I also use them to make slideshows for presentation on my monitor or others.  Also for presentation on my 4K UHD 75" TV.  Of course with the TV who knows how it's calibrated and its color space?

It didn't make sense to me to use let's say Prophoto or Adobe Photo and then switch to RGB at the end.  So I just leave everything in RGB for simplicity.  Since I'm not printing, what would be the point?  Would it make much of a difference if i use the scan to do a coffee table book?  It's something I'd like to do and will do soon.

The other thing is that color is very individual.  Everyone sees it differently and has their biases.  So if I adjust it to look good to my eye, probably it will look good to most people and the rest don't matter because I'm pleasing myself and their tastes aren't mine.  Comparing color palettes and spaces seems to me to be like pixel peeping.  Frankly, unless you have two photos that you are comparing too, you won't see the difference in colors, and then only marginally.  With one picture, how does anyone know it's "right" or "wrong".  Unless a color is really off, such as with flesh tones, no one's going to notice.  Does anyone see some colors missing because they're using a smaller color space? Bigger issues are banding, chroma effects, artifacts, etc. These are obvious or at least seeable.  With film, did you spot out all the dust?  Does the picture do anything for me? Or am I more concerned with technical perfection?  As an engineer, it's easy for me to get caught up in the latter and miss the aesthetic trees in the forest.

The only reason I want color profiles though is to make the adjustment procedure easier because the results from scanning film gives weird results sometimes and it's hard to get to decent color results.  Most people change saturation and stuff like that.  So the picture isn't "real" anyway and doesn't match the original colors.  But no one cares.  Larger color spaces seem to be for people who like more pixels even if they don't need them.    Sorry for the philosphy.  :)

If I'm missing something, I'd sure like to hear yours or others ideas on this. Especially as regard to coffee table books and printing. 
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