Color profiling the Epson V850 Pro scanner

[Alan Klein]

The transparency which is 4x5 is labelled IT8, 7/1-1993  Mont45:2019:03.  But it isn't in the Windows  Program Data folder in X-rite folder.   There are a bunch of others, but not this one.  Also, there is no similar file for the Reflective color print which is labelled, IT8: 7/2-1993  MONR 2019:02-1 Version 2.  There's also a note in the X-rite software box that says to use Version 2 for Epson Scan and not ICC Profile 4.

I got the files from X-rite.
The first is for the transparencies.  The second is for reflective prints.

But I still need help getting everything to work with Epsonscan.  See my posts above if you can help.

MONT
https://www.xrite.com/service-support/downloads/m/monaco_it8_4x5_ref_files_2007_current

MONR
https://www.xrite.com/service-support/downloads/m/monaco_it8_5x7_ref_files_2007_current

[degrub]

Yes.

Then follow the directions included with Spectraview to do the monitor calibration.

There are also numerous posts in this subforum over the years that  may help. i recall there was at least one tutorial on the main website.
Just make sure you are running the latest version.

[Alan Klein]

Then follow the directions included with Spectraview to do the monitor calibration.

There are also numerous posts in this subforum over the years that  may help. i recall there was at least one tutorial on the main website.
Just make sure you are running the latest version.

Calibrate the monitor to what?

Also I get this now when I open Spectraview II since I installed the x-Rite i1 scanner profile.  See picture below.  What does it mean?

[Frans Waterlander]

Calibrate the monitor to what?

To a CCT (correlated color temperature) and brightness that best matches your prints as viewed in your digital darkroom illumination. You can have different calibration sets for different papers/printers and even illuminations, if you wanted to.

[digitaldog]

Calibrate the monitor to what?

Why are my prints too dark?
A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013
In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:

Are your prints really too dark?
Display calibration and WYSIWYG
Proper print viewing conditions
Trouble shooting to get a match
Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4
Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4

[Alan Klein]

Sorry if I confused people here.  My fault.  This thread is not about calibrating the monitor for printing.  Rather, it's about using a color profile for the scanner to improve the scan process of color film, both positive and negatives.  So to bring it up to date where I am:

First I was able to get the color profiles in ICC for both transparencies and reflective prints.  I used X-rite 11 Scanner software to do that.  Both the profile are saved in C:windows\system32\spool\drivers\color.

Now I want to be able to use those profiles when I scan with my EPson 850 Pro scanner so the colors are adjusted properly.  I understand that you can use Silverfast scan software, which I have but have never used before.  But for now, I want to get the profiles to work with EPson Scan software when I scan since I've used Epsonscan for years.  I'm most familiar with it.  How do I use the ICC color profiles in conjunction with Epsonscan to make my color scans better?

[Frans Waterlander]

You do know that all bets are off if your monitor isn't properly calibrated, right?

[Alan Klein]

You do know that all bets are off if your monitor isn't properly calibrated, right?

Frans  Yes I calibrate my monitor.  Currently to sRGB.  But what does that have to do with the scanner?  How does the ICC profile work in conjunction with the scanner?  Currently, when I scan I do adjustment manually either before the scan using Epsonscan or after the scan using Elements or Lightroom.  So how does the color profile improve the process? 

[Alan Klein]

What does the Spectraview II alert mean?  How should I handle it?  Yes or No and when?

[Alan Klein]

Notice in Epsonscan when I go to scan, I get this advisory indicating Embed ICC Profile ON.  What does it mean?  What ICC profile is it?

[MichaelKoerner]

What does the Spectraview II alert mean?  How should I handle it?  Yes or No and when?

In this case, both softwares, i1Profiler and SpectraView, try to use the connected measuring device simultanuously. As only one of them can, you say yes - so i1Profiler releases the device and SpectraView can use it.

[Frans Waterlander]

Frans  Yes I calibrate my monitor.  Currently to sRGB.  But what does that have to do with the scanner?  How does the ICC profile work in conjunction with the scanner?  Currently, when I scan I do adjustment manually either before the scan using Epsonscan or after the scan using Elements or Lightroom.  So how does the color profile improve the process?

I don't know what that has to do with the scanner, but when you do adjustments, how do you evaluate those changes?  By looking at your monitor? Just saying.

[digitaldog]

Notice in Epsonscan when I go to scan, I get this advisory indicating Embed ICC Profile ON.  What does it mean? 

It means the ICC profile IS EMBEDDED (and why anyone wouldn't embed a profile is beyond me).
But seriously do you know have the darn manual for the scanner software you're using? RTFM. You say you've been using it, so this shouldn't be anything new to be concerned with.
I give up. Time to turn notifications off.

[MichaelKoerner]

Notice in Epsonscan when I go to scan, I get this advisory indicating Embed ICC Profile ON.  What does it mean?  What ICC profile is it?

Alan, when you click on "Configuration..." (at the bottom of the program window) you can choose "EPSON(C), "ICM" or "No color correction". When you choose "ICM" (which would be the logical solution for us color management savvy guys ) Epson Scan saves the file with a specific profile called "Epson sRGB". This it is not the profile you produced with X-rite software!

So, you want to choose "No color correction" here. Thus all color sliders/buttons get greyed out and you scan a "flat" file. If you owned Photoshop, you would then open the file there and assign the proper ICC profile. BUT - no Photoshop, so you run into a dead-end: AFAIK neither Lightroom nor Elements can assign a profile :-/

Conclusion: You really want to use Silverfast.

[Alan Klein]

I don't know what that has to do with the scanner, but when you do adjustments, how do you evaluate those changes?  By looking at your monitor? Just saying.

Frans: Yes. My monitor is calibrated to sRGB Emulation.  I have been adjusting by my eye. https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums
I'm not trying to match original film.  If it looks good to my eyes, then it should look to others.  I use sRGB Emulation since I post my shots on the web.  I'm not printing at this time and no longer have a printer.  The reason I'm looking for a profile and a color calibration for the scanner process, I thought it would help me get to roughly what the colors are.  Especially with color negatives which can be frustrating sometimes.

Thanks for your input.

[Alan Klein]

It means the ICC profile IS EMBEDDED (and why anyone wouldn't embed a profile is beyond me).
But seriously do you know have the darn manual for the scanner software you're using? RTFM. You say you've been using it, so this shouldn't be anything new to be concerned with.
I give up. Time to turn notifications off.

I never used or understood ICC profiles before.  It's all new to me so your help is appreciated.  Embed ICC profile has always been on.  It's the default setting.  The Manual for the scanner says the following:   TIFF: File format created for exchanging data among many applications such as graphic and DTP software. You can specify the compression type. You can add ICC profile (information on color reproducibility of scanned image) to the image.

What does that mean?

[Alan Klein]

Alan, when you click on "Configuration..." (at the bottom of the program window) you can choose "EPSON(C), "ICM" or "No color correction". When you choose "ICM" (which would be the logical solution for us color management savvy guys ) Epson Scan saves the file with a specific profile called "Epson sRGB". This it is not the profile you produced with X-rite software!

So, you want to choose "No color correction" here. Thus all color sliders/buttons get greyed out and you scan a "flat" file. If you owned Photoshop, you would then open the file there and assign the proper ICC profile. BUT - no Photoshop, so you run into a dead-end: AFAIK neither Lightroom nor Elements can assign a profile :-/

Conclusion: You really want to use Silverfast.

That's a bummer.  So I went through all this for nothing.  So let's say I used the ICM Epson sRGB setting.  What happens?  Does the scanner embed the sRGB seting in the file?  If so, how would I use this or can;t I in Lightroom or Elements?

[Alan Klein]

Here's an idea I just thought of.  What if I adjusted the flat scan of the transparency I got from X-rite so that the results on my calibrated monitor matches closely to the transparency illuminated by a 5000K LED back light panel.  Could I apply the same manual adjustments then to any scan to approximate proper colors? In doesn;t seem likely since every chrome is different.  But then how does an ICC profile work in PS? It also doesn;t know what the original shot looked like. 

[MichaelKoerner]

So let's say I used the ICM Epson sRGB setting.  What happens?  Does the scanner embed the sRGB seting in the file?  If so, how would I use this or can;t I in Lightroom or Elements?

Yes, the software Epson Scan embeds the profile „Epson sRGB“ into the saved file. But as this is a general profile, it won‘t be of much use.

As it seems that you want to stick with Epson Scan, I‘d recommand setting „Configuration...“ to „No color correction“, thus producing flat TIF-files, opening those in Lightroom and doing all corrections there.

Here's an idea I just thought of.  What if I adjusted the flat scan of the transparency I got from X-rite so that the results on my calibrated monitor matches closely to the transparency illuminated by a 5000K LED back light panel.  Could I apply the same manual adjustments then to any scan to approximate proper colors? In doesn;t seem likely since every chrome is different. 

Why not doing it visually, as with Epson Scan (and without Photoshop) I don't see how to get a more colorimetrical correct result. Later you can define presets in Lightroom as soon as you found out what corrections need to be made for different scans (E6 film types, flatbed,...). Starting with the x-rite target as your first scan is ok, but you will make your final judgements on real world images, so I would not spend too much time trying to hit it perfectly.

But then how does an ICC profile work in PS? It also doesn;t know what the original shot looked like. 

If you want to steal a glance at a copy of „Real World Colormanagement“, this drastically increases one‘s understanding of ICC profiles etc. Recommended reading.

[Alan Klein]

OK  Thanks all.