PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

Not all of us have "taken a hike".  I can't speak for others but I'm simply busy earning a buck and find little time to read or post. 

And given the point in time in this election cycle, there is little left to say.  Sides are mostly chosen and continiued banter is meaningless.

Now we just wait to see where the votes come down and move on with our lives. 

I'm glad you're back Craig. I've been so busy.  I need time to sharpen my sword.

[faberryman]

So help me out here. Trump has signed an executive order extending federal unemployment benefits. The federal benefit is suppose to be $400, but the states have to contribute $100 of that amount. So isn't that a $300 federal unemployment benefit? Why didn't Trump say the new benefit is $1000, but the states have to contribute $700? What happens if a state doesn't contribute the $100?*

And the eviction moratorium. Doesn't that just apply to renters of the 9.2% of apartments that are FHA financed? Aren't you still hosed if you are among the 90% of renters that live in non-FHA financed housing?

And that payroll tax holiday. Isn't that just a deferral? Won't you still have to pay all the payroll taxes you've deferred when you file your return on April 15th? What are Social Security and Medicare going to do every month when the bills come in and there are no payroll taxes to pay them.

No new stimulus check? I used the last one to pay a portion of my 2019 taxes. Just flipped it over and endorsed it to the IRS. Give with one hand, and take away with the other. So much for groceries.

*Edit: Turns out that if a state doesn't kick in the extra $100, then the federal government is not going to pay the $300, and no one in that state gets anything. Zip, zilch, nothing, nada.

[Alan Klein]

So help me out here. Trump has signed an executive order extending federal unemployment benefits. The federal benefit is suppose to be $400, but the states have to contribute $100 of that amount. So isn't that a $300 federal unemployment benefit? Why didn't Trump say the new benefit is $1000, but the states have to contribute $700? What happens if a state doesn't contribute the $100?

And the eviction moratorium. Doesn't that just apply to renters of the 9.2% of apartments that are FHA financed? Aren't you still hosed if you are among the 90% of renters that live in non-FHA financed housing?

And that payroll tax holiday. Isn't that just a deferral? Won't you still have to pay all the payroll taxes you've deferred when you file your return on April 15th? What are Social Security and Medicare going to do every month when the bills come in and there are no payroll taxes to pay them.

No new stimulus check? I used the last one to pay a portion of my 2019 taxes. Just flipped it over and endorsed it to the IRS. Give with one hand, and take away with the other. So much for groceries.

Trump is trying to do what Congress failed to do.   Voters who need money at least can count on Trump as their champion.  It's not his job to dot every "i" and cross every "t". That's what COngress is supposed to do. They're the legislative branch. 

Meanwhile Congress and especially the Dems are sitting on their hands helping no one.  Why isn't Biden getting out there and demanding his Democrat friends vote for aid for the unemployed for now so they can pay their rent?  They can argue about additional funding for the states separately.

[faberryman]

You didn't answer my questions Alan.

It's not his job to dot every "i" and cross every "t".

I think the word you are looking for here is "half-assed", which is what we have come to expect from Trump.

Meanwhile Congress and especially the Dems are sitting on their hands helping no one.

We know Senate Republicans aren't sitting on their hands. They're on vacation at the beach or at the golf course. They obviously don't give a shit.

[Alan Klein]

You didn't answer my questions Alan.

I think the word you are looking for here is "half-assed", which is what we have come to expect from Trump.

We know Senate Republicans aren't sitting on their hands. They're on vacation at the beach or at the golf course. They obviously don't give a shit.

You can't have it both ways.  First you say that what Trump is doing is illegal.  That it's up to Congress to legislate and fund the unemployed.  Then you blame him for not legislating properly.  That his "bill" should have been crafted better even though he can only use executive action to do what is legal.  He's not the legislature. Make up your mind. 

[faberryman]

You can't have it both ways.

Never asked for "it" both ways, whatever "it" is.

First you say that what Trump is doing is illegal.

I never said what he was doing was illegal. Why do you always make stuff up?

That it's up to Congress to legislate and fund the unemployed.

Unemployment insurance is primarily a state issue. If Congress wants to get involved, it is their prerogative to legislate and fund. Apparently what Trump is doing here is redirecting left over funds from the first virus relief bill.  I don't know if it is legal or not. Perhaps there will be a legal challenge and the courts will tell us.

Then you blame him for not legislating properly.

You are making stuff up again. I did not blame him for not legislating. Congress legislates, not the president. I just pointed out the shortcomings of what he did do.

That his "bill" should have been crafted better even though he can only use executive action to do what is legal.

It wasn't a bill. It was one executive order and three executive memoranda thrown together between rounds of golf. Like I said, I don't know if what he did is legal or not.  That being said, his golfing buddies there in the 19th hole seemed to approve. And Trump made some money off the drinks.

He's not the legislature.

I am glad we agree on that. I'm not sure Trump understands it though.

Make up your mind.

My mind is made up, subject to change of course upon receipt of better information.

I know you don't read any of the articles that people link to, but the least you could do is extend the courtesy of reading the post itself before responding.

Now, when are you going to get around to answering those questions I asked?

[pschefz]

You can't have it both ways.  First you say that what Trump is doing is illegal.  That it's up to Congress to legislate and fund the unemployed.  Then you blame him for not legislating properly.  That his "bill" should have been crafted better even though he can only use executive action to do what is legal.  He's not the legislature. Make up your mind.

You are trying to have it both ways....Republicans brought a bill forward that they knew makes no sense to and for anyone...democrats are sitting on their hands? Because they don’t sign a joke of a bill? This is a clear case of adults having to come together and meet somewhere...make compromises...the democrats have shown that they are willing to do that....McConnell will pay the price for not budging in any way to help Americans...it has never been more obvious how little the republicans care about the population....conservatives used to care about debt...not these guys....
We are at the point when the guy in the White House actually says: well sue me if its illegal....just let that sink in...this is about millions of people....
Trump is not helping anyone with this little diversion.....look how great i am!
This should not even be about democrats vs republicans....every other country has put politics aside in this pandemic and worked together to solve problems....I guess if it takes you months to actually acknowledge that there is a pandemic that is a problem right there!
The rest of the world is looking at the US government now asking : do you not care about your people? Their health? McConnell and trump definitely do not....
This really isn’t that hard....people need cash....the 600 extra have been keeping the economy afloat....that a lot of the money spent at stores goes to china isn’t chinas fault, it is the US’s for not making things anymore (or at least not good things people want to buy)...
All the pork for military and special interest and FBI buildings is just pure madness and shows how little republicans care about actual people.....but regardless....its a negotiation and government is responsible for its people....and like the democrats have said all along, you meet somewhere.....
This is not a real estate deal where you walk off to call someone’s bluff ....these are long terms ramifications and people’s lives on the line....

[pschefz]

The craziest thing about all this is to think back to the bush years with rove pulling strings and how much damage was done....even the Clinton years and how much damage was done then to the entire financial system....
All this is just absolutely nothing compared to the absolute madness, greed and stupidity in White House and senate right now....small people hanging on to power with greedy little hands, stomping on the population to stay in power....sad....
And some people defending them...

[Alan Klein]

You are trying to have it both ways....Republicans brought a bill forward that they knew makes no sense to and for anyone...democrats are sitting on their hands? Because they don’t sign a joke of a bill? This is a clear case of adults having to come together and meet somewhere...make compromises...the democrats have shown that they are willing to do that....McConnell will pay the price for not budging in any way to help Americans...it has never been more obvious how little the republicans care about the population....conservatives used to care about debt...not these guys....
We are at the point when the guy in the White House actually says: well sue me if its illegal....just let that sink in...this is about millions of people....
Trump is not helping anyone with this little diversion.....look how great i am!
This should not even be about democrats vs republicans....every other country has put politics aside in this pandemic and worked together to solve problems....I guess if it takes you months to actually acknowledge that there is a pandemic that is a problem right there!
The rest of the world is looking at the US government now asking : do you not care about your people? Their health? McConnell and trump definitely do not....
This really isn’t that hard....people need cash....the 600 extra have been keeping the economy afloat....that a lot of the money spent at stores goes to china isn’t chinas fault, it is the US’s for not making things anymore (or at least not good things people want to buy)...
All the pork for military and special interest and FBI buildings is just pure madness and shows how little republicans care about actual people.....but regardless....its a negotiation and government is responsible for its people....and like the democrats have said all along, you meet somewhere.....
This is not a real estate deal where you walk off to call someone’s bluff ....these are long terms ramifications and people’s lives on the line....

You're in the weeds. The people out of work are going to blame the Democrats and Congress for not giving them the money.  At least the president is trying. 

[faberryman]

At least the president is trying.

Do. Or do not. There is no try. - Yoda.

https://youtu.be/BQ4yd2W50No

[Peter McLennan]

Unashamedly copied and pasted because it deserves to be seen here:

...when everything is politics, it means that everything is just about power. There is no center, there are only sides; there’s no truth, there are only versions; there are no facts, there’s only a contest of wills.

If you believe that climate change is real, it must be because someone paid you off with a research grant. If you believe the president committed an impeachable offense trying to enlist the president of Ukraine to undermine Joe Biden, it’s only because you want power for your party.

Illiberal populists like Trump — or Bibi Netanyahu in Israel, Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, Viktor Orban in Hungary, Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Turkey and Vladimir Putin in Russia — deliberately try to undermine the guardians of facts and the common good. Their message to their people is: “Don’t believe the courts, the independent civil servants or the fake news generators — only trust me, my words and my decisions. It’s a jungle out there. My critics are killers (which is what Trump called his press corps on Friday), and only I can protect our tribe from theirs. It’s rule or die.”


This trend is not only hurting us, it’s literally killing us. The reason Trump has utterly failed to manage the Covid-19 pandemic is that he finally met a force he could not discredit and deflect by turning it into politics — Mother Nature. She is impenetrable to politics because all she consists of is chemistry, biology and physics. And she will do whatever they dictate — in this case, spread a coronavirus — whether Trump affirms it or not.

The leaders of Germany, Sweden and South Korea asserted just the opposite, saying: “No, there are scientific facts independent of politics and there is the common good, and we will bow to those facts and we will serve the common good with a public health strategy.”

The other day Trump told a G.O.P. audience in Cleveland that, if Biden won, he would “hurt the Bible, hurt God. He’s against God, he’s against guns, he’s against energy, our kind of energy.”

Our kind of energy?

Yup, it turns out there is now Republican energy — oil, gas and coal — and Democratic energy — wind, solar and hydro. And if you believe in oil, gas and coal, you are also supposed to oppose abortion and face masks. And if you believe in solar, wind and hydro, you are presumed to be pro-abortion rights and pro-face mask. This kind of thinking, in the extreme, is what destroyed Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Libya and Yemen and is increasingly eating away at Israel.

And is now destroying America.

[kers]

“Our kind of energy”  LOL 
You know ; the one that smokes, smells & farts !

[Alan Klein]

Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6830 on: Today at 04:41:59 pm »
ReplyQuote
Unashamedly copied and pasted because it deserves to be seen here:

...when everything is politics, it means that everything is just about power. There is no center, there are only sides; there’s no truth, there are only versions; there are no facts, there’s only a contest of wills.

If you believe that climate change is real, it must be because someone paid you off with a research grant. If you believe the president committed an impeachable offense trying to enlist the president of Ukraine to undermine Joe Biden, it’s only because you want power for your party.

Illiberal populists like Trump — or Bibi Netanyahu in Israel, Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, Viktor Orban in Hungary, Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Turkey and Vladimir Putin in Russia — deliberately try to undermine the guardians of facts and the common good. Their message to their people is: “Don’t believe the courts, the independent civil servants or the fake news generators — only trust me, my words and my decisions. It’s a jungle out there. My critics are killers (which is what Trump called his press corps on Friday), and only I can protect our tribe from theirs. It’s rule or die.”


This trend is not only hurting us, it’s literally killing us. The reason Trump has utterly failed to manage the Covid-19 pandemic is that he finally met a force he could not discredit and deflect by turning it into politics — Mother Nature. She is impenetrable to politics because all she consists of is chemistry, biology and physics. And she will do whatever they dictate — in this case, spread a coronavirus — whether Trump affirms it or not.

The leaders of Germany, Sweden and South Korea asserted just the opposite, saying: “No, there are scientific facts independent of politics and there is the common good, and we will bow to those facts and we will serve the common good with a public health strategy.”

The other day Trump told a G.O.P. audience in Cleveland that, if Biden won, he would “hurt the Bible, hurt God. He’s against God, he’s against guns, he’s against energy, our kind of energy.”

Our kind of energy?

Yup, it turns out there is now Republican energy — oil, gas and coal — and Democratic energy — wind, solar and hydro. And if you believe in oil, gas and coal, you are also supposed to oppose abortion and face masks. And if you believe in solar, wind and hydro, you are presumed to be pro-abortion rights and pro-face mask. This kind of thinking, in the extreme, is what destroyed Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Libya and Yemen and is increasingly eating away at Israel.

And is now destroying America.

Peter: that was obviously written by some guy who sees his side of politics as something honorable and moral.  But when the other side practices it, it's dishonorable and immoral.  These are the same people who favor free speech as long as the speech concurs with their thinking.  If the other sides speech doesn't,  than it shouldn't even be allowed. It must be quashed.  It's these people who are the true Fascists who want to control the universe to their liking. They abhor freedom.  They are the statists who seek power and want to control you from cradle to grave.

[faberryman]

Peter: that was obviously written by some guy who sees his side of politics as something honorable and moral.  But when the other side practices it, it's dishonorable and immoral.  These are the same people who favor free speech as long as the speech concurs with their thinking.  If the other sides speech doesn't,  than it shouldn't even be allowed. It must be quashed.  It's these people who are the true Fascists who want to control the universe to their liking. They abhor freedom.  They are the statists who seek power and want to control you from cradle to grave.

It must be exhausting being so bitter about everything all the time.

[Peter McLennan]

Peter: that was obviously written by some guy who sees his side of politics as something honorable and moral.  But when the other side practices it, it's dishonorable and immoral.  These are the same people who favor free speech as long as the speech concurs with their thinking.  If the other sides speech doesn't,  than it shouldn't even be allowed. It must be quashed.  It's these people who are the true Fascists who want to control the universe to their liking. They abhor freedom.  They are the statists who seek power and want to control you from cradle to grave.

You do realize, don't you, that you've perfectly validated the article's premise?

[faberryman]

I watched an interview of Larry Kudlow, Trump's economic advisor, on one of the Sunday shows. He doesn't seem to be one of the sharpest pencils in the drawer. He didn't seem to know what he was talking about. In fact, he sounded like a complete idiot. Is this really the guy Trump listens to on economic stuff?

[pschefz]

You're in the weeds. The people out of work are going to blame the Democrats and Congress for not giving them the money.  At least the president is trying.

He is making desperate attempts to make it look as such....
I am not a big fan of CNN but FOX is literally an alternate universe....completely cut off from all reality...and with reality i mean what the general scientific, economic, and general rational world consensus about what might pass as reality....
Unless this regime pulls the rug out from under all of us in terms of election fraud (suppression, inviting international interference or just refusing to let people vote or hold an election...) the senate and White House will turn democrat and we might have a chance to bring some sanity back into political life...
Hey maybe even try and save the planet and save a few of the poor....you know...crazy socialist shit....

[John Camp]

I watched an interview of Larry Kudlow, Trump's economic advisor, on one of the Sunday shows. He doesn't seem to be one of the sharpest pencils in the drawer. He didn't seem to know what he was talking about. In fact, he sounded like a complete idiot. Is this the guy Trump listens to on economic stuff? Last time I heard him he was saying we had contained the virus "pretty close to airtight" and that the pandemic was not likely be an “economic tragedy.” I guess we are not to economic tragedy yet.  That will occur when the federal and state eviction moratoriums expire and renters start filing bankruptcy in droves because they can't come up with the 6-8-12 months rent they haven't been able to pay.

Kudlow was essentially one of Trump's colleagues, a game-show host, before he went to Washington. He has no idea what he's talking about; he can't, actually, because he has to change his mind every time Trump contradicts him.

[Alan Klein]

He is making desperate attempts to make it look as such....
I am not a big fan of CNN but FOX is literally an alternate universe....completely cut off from all reality...and with reality i mean what the general scientific, economic, and general rational world consensus about what might pass as reality....
Unless this regime pulls the rug out from under all of us in terms of election fraud (suppression, inviting international interference or just refusing to let people vote or hold an election...) the senate and White House will turn democrat and we might have a chance to bring some sanity back into political life...
Hey maybe even try and save the planet and save a few of the poor....you know...crazy socialist shit....

An undivided government does not consider the whole country.  They have too much power.  Our freedoms are better protected when both parties control the government.  Of course, if you want socialist, you'll get it in spades from the Democrats although even the Republicans are doing it pretty much.  But watch what you pray for.  You may get it. 

[pschefz]

An undivided government does not consider the whole country.  They have too much power.  Our freedoms are better protected when both parties control the government.  Of course, if you want socialist, you'll get it in spades from the Democrats although even the Republicans are doing it pretty much.  But watch what you pray for.  You may get it.

What are you referring to when you say : an undivided government? A one party system? Who is talking about that! I don’t think you even know what socialism really is....not communism but a social democratic system...i grew up in one, nothing is perfect but there is perfect and then there is the US in 2020...systematic rascism, and a race to the bottom in terms of economic inequality....
Of course having only 2 parties that will agree on one thing only (making sure there will never be a third) does not help....
this is barely a democracy at all anymore anyway at this point.....