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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 286131 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5400 on: June 05, 2020, 07:45:25 am »

Let's hear what the editor-in-chief of Lancet had to say in 2015:

Editor In Chief Of World’s Best Known Medical Journal: Half Of All The Literature Is False

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/05/16/editor-in-chief-of-worlds-best-known-medical-journal-half-of-all-the-literature-is-false/

Yes, if only others had half his ability for introspection...

Cheers,
Bernard

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5401 on: June 05, 2020, 07:56:54 am »

The study published by Lancet in May, claiming that the use of the drug hydroxychloroquine leads to 45% higher chance of dying in Covid-19 patients, has now been retracted. Consequently, the WHO has restared its study. Below is a lengthy article with plenty of details. It is also worth noting that the US company providing data for the studies, Surgisphere, had only 11 employees, which "appear to include a science fiction writer and an adult-content model." Caveat emptor.

Surgisphere: governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&fbclid=IwAR3H2iGRhvF-xerGXiCA_zI79f9h9dAkWYOCJ4PWVuAkQSxo6xye1vKPfMc&amp_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2020%2Fjun%2F03%2Fcovid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine



Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5402 on: June 05, 2020, 08:14:46 am »

I am sorry Pieter, but on this one I think that you are being a little bit naive.

There is no way this is a mistake. Certainly not on the part of the Lancet. They knew exactly what they were doing when they published this article.

Cheers,
Bernard

The bogus study came out came out right after Trump took the chloroquin.  Draw your own conclusions. 

kers

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5403 on: June 05, 2020, 08:24:15 am »

The bogus study came out came out right after Trump took the chloroquin.  Draw your own conclusions.

I do
I don't think the Lancet is that quick in its reaction, approving for publishing takes time, nor that it has the intention playing some political role.
You seem to put everything in a pro-against Trump scheme - the world has more flavours.



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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5404 on: June 05, 2020, 08:26:49 am »

In Portugal, the latest estimates are for a deficit of 6% and unemployment at 10% for YE2020. It's a big hit no doubt, but the "good" news is that the entire EU is suffering the same impact, so this time around there will be a united effort. A couple of weeks ago the European Commission proposed a package of 1.5 billion euros, yesterday they are adding another 0.650 billion to it.

Southern Europe countries are desperately trying to reopen for international tourism in July, but I think most people will stay in-country for fear of infection. The virus is still present, and there is still no treatment or immunity. For example, Portugal is having an average of 300 new cases a day, 90% of those is in the greater Lisbon area - 18 different municipalities. These are coming from civil construction workers and temporary workers, that are between 20 - 40 years old (they are asymptomatic and don't even know that are infected) and are highly mobile. In the last week alone, 17,000 tests were done in the Lisbon area, with around 4% positive. As a result the shopping centers in Lisbon area will only reopen 15 July, whereas they opened in the rest of the country June 1st.

I read yesterday that airlines will only recover in 2023.
Don't you mean 1.5 trillion Euros not billion?  Also 650 billion not .650.  Your currency won't be worth anything pretty soon like ours.  I read somewhere that the Euro will be down to 80 cents on the dollar.  I told my wife it will be really cheap to go on vacation in Europe.  That's if you can fly and rent a hotel room.  Unemployment of 10% maybe be too generous. I think here in America we're up to 20%.  It's going to be a long grind to get back to normal.  My wife and I are retired so it doesn't affect us much. Of course, risk wise if we get sick is where we're in trouble.   I really feel sorry for younger families who have to support families and don't have a job.  What's the situation in Australia, Germany, The Netherlands, Canada, Great Britain, etc?

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5405 on: June 05, 2020, 08:32:43 am »

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/03/orange-vests-protests-in-rome-leader-says-coronavirus-doesnt-exist.html?fbclid=IwAR0fO21EzLZqe9GJETZeEZzCVa4bTcWrBsosBTerIR5V3YWE4n90txdYcPs

Italy is seeing an ‘Orange Vests’ movement that says coronavirus pandemic doesn’t exist


This is nothing.  Wait until the depression and recession hit.  Watch what happens when people are on food lines.  Populism will become common.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5406 on: June 05, 2020, 08:34:53 am »

Let's hear what the editor-in-chief of Lancet had to say in 2015:

Editor In Chief Of World’s Best Known Medical Journal: Half Of All The Literature Is False

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/05/16/editor-in-chief-of-worlds-best-known-medical-journal-half-of-all-the-literature-is-false/

Similar things happened with climate change studies.  There's too much money to be made in science.  Publish or perish.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5407 on: June 05, 2020, 08:41:47 am »

I do
I don't think the Lancet is that quick in its reaction, approving for publishing takes time, nor that it has the intention playing some political role.
You seem to put everything in a pro-against Trump scheme - the world has more flavours.




Well, maybe they were ready to publish after a formal review.  But then, they just pushed the publishing date up because of the Trump political situation.  Someone at the publisher thinks, "You know, with the world thinking this stuff is good because Trump took it, and we now have this study that shows it's bad, we ought to publish it right away to inform the public and protect them.  We'll do our due diligence later."  So they go ahead and publish and then find out they made a big mistake.

jeremyrh

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5408 on: June 05, 2020, 08:50:23 am »

The description "Chinese virus" is no more 'racist' than Spanish 'flu, Hong Kong flu or Bornholm disease.

Because you say so? 

Nobody calls Covid19 "the Chinese virus" except Trump and his stooges - those with a political axe to grind. It has a official name which is in use throughout the world.

Of course you knew that already.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5409 on: June 05, 2020, 08:50:36 am »

We poor saps are getting it in the head.

Jim Cramer: The pandemic led to ‘one of the greatest wealth transfers in history’

"The stock market is rising as big business rebounds from state-ordered stoppage of nonessential activity, while small businesses drop like flies, the “Mad Money” host said.

“The bigger the business, the more it moves the major averages, and that matters because this is the first recession where big business … is coming through virtually unscathed, if not going for the gold,” he added."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/cramer-the-pandemic-led-to-a-great-wealth-transfer.html

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5410 on: June 05, 2020, 08:52:02 am »

The description "Chinese virus" is no more 'racist' than Spanish 'flu, Hong Kong flu or Bornholm disease.

Because you say so? 

Nobody calls Covid19 "the Chinese virus" except Trump and his stooges - those with a political axe to grind. It has a official name which is in use throughout the world.

Of course you knew that already.
It's not racist.  It is political.

kers

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5411 on: June 05, 2020, 08:57:22 am »

Well, maybe they were ready to publish after a formal review.  But then, they just pushed the publishing date up because of the Trump political situation.  Someone at the publisher thinks, "You know, with the world thinking this stuff is good because Trump took it, and we now have this study that shows it's bad, we ought to publish it right away to inform the public and protect them.  We'll do our due diligence later."  So they go ahead and publish and then find out they made a big mistake.

again_ you put everything in a Pro and Against Trump scheme...
try a new record.

I don't think the virus is political either... or against Trump.
He did a bad job protecting his people and still does.
America first; yes, on the corona list.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 09:00:23 am by kers »
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5412 on: June 05, 2020, 09:11:27 am »

The study published by Lancet in May, claiming that the use of the drug hydroxychloroquine leads to 45% higher chance of dying in Covid-19 patients, has now been retracted. Consequently, the WHO has restared its study. Below is a lengthy article with plenty of details. It is also worth noting that the US company providing data for the studies, Surgisphere, had only 11 employees, which "appear to include a science fiction writer and an adult-content model." Caveat emptor.

Surgisphere: governments and WHO changed Covid-19 policy based on suspect data from tiny US company

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D&fbclid=IwAR3H2iGRhvF-xerGXiCA_zI79f9h9dAkWYOCJ4PWVuAkQSxo6xye1vKPfMc&amp_js_v=0.1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2020%2Fjun%2F03%2Fcovid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine




Here's the official Lancet retraction.  I've copied one paragraph from it below.  Draw your own conclusions.
 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31324-6/fulltext

"MRM reports personal fees from Abbott, Medtronic, Janssen, Roivant, Triple Gene, Mesoblast, Baim Institute for Clinical Research, Portola, Bayer, NupulseCV, FineHeart, and Leviticus. FR has been paid for time spent as a committee member for clinical trials, advisory boards, other forms of consulting, and lectures or presentations; these payments were made directly to the University of Zurich and no personal payments were received in relation to these trials or other activities since 2018. Before 2018 FR reports grants and personal fees from SJM/Abbott, grants and personal fees from Servier, personal fees from Zoll, personal fees from Astra Zeneca, personal fees from Sanofi, grants and personal fees from Novartis, personal fees from Amgen, personal fees from BMS, personal fees from Pfizer, personal fees from Fresenius, personal fees from Vifor, personal fees from Roche, grants and personal fees from Bayer, personal fees from Cardiorentis, personal fees from Boehringer Ingelheim, other from Heartware, and grants from Mars. ANP declares no competing interests."

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5413 on: June 05, 2020, 09:20:20 am »

again_ you put everything in a Pro and Against Trump scheme...
try a new record.

I don't think the virus is political either... or against Trump.
He did a bad job protecting his people and still does.
America first; yes, on the corona list.

Has the liberal anti-Trump media published the retraction to the same extent as the original bogus study?  That's what counts.  All the "scientific" arguments regarding the virus have heavy political overtones because of the upcoming election.  It has also distorted the science and has hurt the economy. 

kers

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5414 on: June 05, 2020, 09:31:38 am »

Has the liberal anti-Trump media published the retraction to the same extent as the original bogus study?  That's what counts.  All the "scientific" arguments regarding the virus have heavy political overtones because of the upcoming election.  It has also distorted the science and has hurt the economy.
whatever...
The Lancet article has nothing to do with the spread of the virus in the US... think what you please.
As you can see NY has done a good job controling it... they had to - other parts in the US took it less serious- they pay a price, as Brazil, Sweden and the UK does.

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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5415 on: June 05, 2020, 09:48:57 am »

whatever...
The Lancet article has nothing to do with the spread of the virus in the US... think what you please.
As you can see NY has done a good job controling it... they had to - other parts in the US took it less serious- they pay a price, as Brazil, Sweden and the UK does.


NY killed thousands of old people forcing sick patients back into their old age homes forcing the disease to spread to the most vulnerable.  NY failed as did its governor.  What are you talking about? 

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5416 on: June 05, 2020, 09:55:46 am »

In retracting the article, Lancet did not say its conclusions were false. They said because the peer reviewers could not review the data, they could not verify it.

"Our independent peer reviewers informed us that Surgisphere would not transfer the full dataset, client contracts, and the full ISO audit report to their servers for analysis as such transfer would violate client agreements and confidentiality requirements."

For those that deal in conspiracies, this is a conspiracy. I think the only conspiracy is the conspiracy among conspiracy theorists to promote conspiracies. Funny how these conspiracies are never proven. When people lose interest in them, they are simply replaced with new conspiracies. It is an industry. And the people that promote them are all wackadoodle. They are either radio personalities or living in their tin foil lined basements.

For Bernard, the Lancet is not a French publication, so it is automatically suspect. He believes in Didier Raoul, a Frenchman, who, by his own admission, has never done a scientific experiment in his life.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 10:07:24 am by faberryman »
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kers

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5417 on: June 05, 2020, 09:56:05 am »

NY killed thousands of old people forcing sick patients back into their old age homes forcing the disease to spread to the most vulnerable.  NY failed as did its governor.  What are you talking about?

They failed initially, but they have it under control now... unlike other states;
The amounts of death in carehomes is a world wide lesson.
In the Netherlands we now have more protective clothing incase of a next time; it all went to the hospitals and intensive care units- there just was not enough.
In Sweden they even refused to give oxygen to old patients in carehomes...  probably also because of a shortage.

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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5418 on: June 05, 2020, 10:01:06 am »

I hear that.  I've got a brand new Fuji GFX and a trip to Marfa and Santa Fe on hold while I wait for this thing to get under control, but maybe I'll finally get my website up :).  Meanwhile, my wife has taken her whole business virtual and I've had to cram a few year's worth of video and live streaming learning into 2 months.  I picked a fortuitous time to go to Fuji last winter - those little cameras are killer hybrids.

That Fuji looks like it is a nice camera, and Im sure you will like it.  Congrats on a new camera.  Me, on the other had have not bought a new camera since 2015.   I can't find a business reason to spend the money.  I'm using the technolgically challenged, poor DR, old sensored, Canon 5Ds.  I only bouhgt it because my 5d's and 1DsIII were getting long in the tooth.  and to be franly not a single client noticed the increase in image quality.  I can't remember a recent time when an image I made for a client was ever used beyond a 8.5" x 22" spread and that was rare.  Lots of banners and billboards but those are low res anyway.  Just no incentive for me to spend money on a camera.  Maybe I'm just old school and remember using film camera for 10-20 years :)

I read a lot of good things about the small Fuji cameras, people seem to really like them.  Looks like you have found a good reason to shoot them :)

BTW, its nice to talk about something besides the political and medical upheaval in the world for a change.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5419 on: June 05, 2020, 10:06:07 am »

In retracting the article, Lancet did not say its conclusions were false. They said because the peer reviewers could not review the data, they could not verify it.

"Our independent peer reviewers informed us that Surgisphere would not transfer the full dataset, client contracts, and the full ISO audit report to their servers for analysis as such transfer would violate client agreements and confidentiality requirements."

For those that deal in conspiracies, this is a conspiracy. I think the only conspiracy is the conspiracy among conspiracy theorists to promote conspiracies. Funny how these conspiracies are never proven. When people lose interest in them, they are simply replaced with new conspiracies. It is an industry.

For Bernard, the Lancet is not a French publication, so it is automatically suspect. He believes in Didier Raoul, a Frenchman, who, by his own admission, has never done a scientific experiment in his life.
The damage to Trump was done. 
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