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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 504008 times)

chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4580 on: May 18, 2020, 01:15:33 pm »

The issue is not where it started.  The issue is China kept the facts about it's danger from the rest of the world and allowed their infected citizens to travel to other parts of the world spreading it around.  At the same time, they prevented these same people from traveling to other parts of China.  So they knew their people were infected but apparently deliberately decided to infect the rest of the world.

Where are your facts on this? You spew it out as if you know this is true for sure...give us the facts or stop spewing.
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LesPalenik

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4581 on: May 18, 2020, 01:16:48 pm »

Here in New Jersey, Six Flags is going to open their animal safari park to private vehicles again.  For years, they stopped that and only had their own buses to take visitors.  But because of the virus, they've had no visitors at all.  Now, they're going to allow private cars to drive through again.  I can't wait to go there so I can cheer up the animals. If fish can get depressed, imagine a baboon.

Speaking of baboons. Last time I drove through an animal safari park, the monkeys pulled off several pieces of protective rubber molding from the sides of my Buick station wagon. And a black bear climbed on top of another car in front of me. It's safer in the wilderness.
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chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4582 on: May 18, 2020, 02:27:33 pm »

Speaking of baboons. Last time I drove through an animal safari park, the monkeys pulled off several pieces of protective rubber molding from the sides of my Buick station wagon. And a black bear climbed on top of another car in front of me. It's safer in the wilderness.

Sounds to me like those animals have become very habituated to humans. Bears that I come across in the wild want nothing to do with me and make every effort to leave me alone.

I personally stay away from places that have captive animals for our amusements, but I can see how they might be fascinating to those that don't have the opportunity to witness them in the wild.
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armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4583 on: May 18, 2020, 03:03:03 pm »

I see that too. A stock boy was loading up the groceries I ordered online into the trunk of my car at curbside.  I could see him from the rear view mirror lifting his mask off and wiping his nose with the back of his hand then handling my bags after putting the mask back on over his mouth.  Yeach!   So just how effective are they?  More expert opinions.  What are the poor uninformed public suppose to do?  Even your post complains about the lack of effectiveness depending on factors.  So which experts does the public listen too?  The whole thing is iffy.  Gloves are a whole other problem  with people not knowing how to use them.  All they do is move the virus around with their gloves instead of the bare hands.  But because they have gloves on, they think they're protected.

I’m amazed how you can take what I write and deduce what you want, eg experts and such. Yes, some “uninformed” people are not wearing them as they should (although a couple of minutes from their time it’s all that’s needed), but the power is in the numbers, the more are making the effort to wear them the better. While some might be worse wearing them, most likely won’t (as I said, they would touch their face anyway).

armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4584 on: May 18, 2020, 03:05:24 pm »

There you go, another horrible consequence of the idiotic lockdowns:

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25709/20200516/fishes-australian-aquariums-show-signs-depression-human-visitors-interact-amid.htm

Fishes in Australian Aquariums Show Signs of Depression with No Human Visitors to Interact with Amid COVID-19 Pandemic

Next: Mermaids protest against the lockdown and lack of human interaction.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 04:25:38 pm by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4586 on: May 18, 2020, 04:21:38 pm »

Next: Mermaids protest against the lockdown and lack of human interaction.

Yes, they are desperate for your company:

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4587 on: May 18, 2020, 04:36:13 pm »

Ahmmm...

armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4588 on: May 18, 2020, 05:01:50 pm »

Yes, they are desperate for your company:

That ship has sailed long time ago

Chris Kern

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4589 on: May 18, 2020, 07:17:38 pm »

Ahmmm...

Ummm: that's hardly news.  Surgical-class face masks (and their ilk, including cloth masks) are intended to protect individuals in the vicinity of an infected wearer from droplets or aerosols emitted by the wearer.  That's why doctors use them―to reduce the risk they will infect their patients.  The reason almost all governments are recommending their universal use during the current pandemic is that they're an important component of a "social distancing" strategy.  Respirator-class face masks (also known as filtering facepieces, often designated N95 or KN95 based on the standards organization which rated them) are designed to provide protection for the wearer.

JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4590 on: May 18, 2020, 07:56:41 pm »

Speaking of baboons. Last time I drove through an animal safari park, the monkeys pulled off several pieces of protective rubber molding from the sides of my Buick station wagon. And a black bear climbed on top of another car in front of me. It's safer in the wilderness.

Speaking of ...

Jim Breuer - Great Adventure Safari

And you may seriously $h!# your pants at this one Jim Breuer - Dad!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 08:14:15 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Ray

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4591 on: May 18, 2020, 08:03:17 pm »

These people must be buried in extra large coffins for them to able to manipulate their arms to scratch the inside of the coffin or for them to be found sitting in an upward position. If not buried in a coffin, how were they able to move into a sitting position with six feet of dirt on top of them. To say nothing of a lack of oxygen.

I shouldn't have used the word 'upright', but use your imagination. If a person was found sitting inside a coffin, she would likely be very short or young, would be inside a standard large coffin for adults, and would be leaning forward with the back of her head and shoulders pressed hard against the top of the coffin.

Obviously, if someone is buried without a coffin, under 6 feet of earth, there's no way they could move. I'm referring only to coffin burials where scratch marks, fragments of the person's nails, including some blood, have been found on the inside of some of the resumed coffins.

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But since these stories appear on the internet they must be true.

Of course not. My post is about the point made by the Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, that there are 'No facts, only Interpretations', which was highlighted by Slobodan in an earlier post. Nietsche's statement 'there are no facts' also requires interpretation, which I'm attempting to do.  ;)

The following article is from NeuWrite Dan Diego which is a collaborative group of scientists from various departments at UCSD, including UCSD Neurosciences, Psychology, Cognitive Science, and Biology, and from the Salk Institute.

"You wake up. It’s pitch black, the air is stale, and your body is pressed by wooden planks on all sides. You try to reach up but your hand hits wooden planks above you. Seized by terror, you try to thrash about but there is no room to move and it’s getting harder to breathe. Your hands hit, scratch, claw at the wood in front of them but nothing moves. With your last gasps of air you scream but the wood and dirt surrounding you swallows the sound.

This scenario was a reality for a disturbingly high number of people only a century or two ago, before good practices and techniques for identifying when a patient was dead became readily available. The podcast Memory Palace tells stories of digging up coffins to find evidence of people who died in the exact scenario described above. One woman tried to claw her way out, ripping her fingernails out in the wood. Another man shattered his skull trying to bash his way out. Not every story ends horrifically; there are stories of dead people waking up at funerals and the resulting mass hysteria this caused. Doctors simply did not have instruments sensitive enough to detect the difference between some reversible conditions (such as comas, epileptic fits, and drug-induced narcolepsy) and actual death."

https://neuwritesd.org/2014/02/27/buried-alive/

Here's another interesting article delving into the history of this issue. There is a medical term for the 'fear of being buried alive', which is Taphephobia, which presumably some people developed because of a general awareness than sometimes people were mistakenly diagnosed as dead and buried alive.

"George Washington was so afraid of being buried alive that he wanted his seemingly deceased body to be laid out for three days, just to make sure he was really dead, writes Sarah Murray in Making an Exit. Writer Hans Christian Anderson and Alfred Nobel, who established the Nobel Prizes, also shared this fear, and wanted their veins to be opened after they appeared to die to make sure they were really gone."
https://www.history.com/news/why-many-famous-figures-feared-theyd-be-buried-alive

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The last paragraph for the article linked to:
"But healthcare professionals and researchers alike are in general agreement that in this day and age, physicians have the expertise and medical equipment to effectively determine when a patient has passed."

Which is why it is reasonable to deduce that such cases of misdiagnosis are under-reported because of the damaging effect such reporting can have on the reputation of the hospital and the doctors involved.

As you can see, I'm feeling very cheerful today. It must be because of the sunlight and the vitamin D, not to mention the Nitric Oxide and Serotonin.  ;D
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4592 on: May 18, 2020, 09:31:36 pm »

Why is this nut case doubling down on this horse shit, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/donald-trump-taking-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus_n_5ec2f07dc5b676044102ffaf?  What must he think is his upside?
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Chris Kern

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4593 on: May 18, 2020, 09:39:20 pm »

Why is this nut case doubling down on this horse shit ["Trump Claims He’s Been Taking Hydroxychloroquine For Weeks"]?

Pity he doesn't drink.  I've heard it pairs well with a bottle of Lysol '18.

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4594 on: May 19, 2020, 04:19:43 am »

That's not what you've been preaching.  You've changed your position.  We've long passed the need to flatten the curve so hospitals don't get overwhelmed.  You've been insisting we should stay shut and save lives.  You've been arguing that we shouldn't be re-opening, even though the health system here is no longer being overwhelmed.

Seems like you have missed my point anyway, twisting it to adjust to your own biased view. I was always in favour of:

1. Lockdown early to avoid disruptions and reduce number of deaths,

2. Once infection rate is reduced to Rt below or near 1, slowly reopen the economy, carefully and phased.

It's useless trying to maintian a logical discussion with you.

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4595 on: May 19, 2020, 04:21:28 am »

The issue is not where it started.  The issue is China kept the facts about it's danger from the rest of the world and allowed their infected citizens to travel to other parts of the world spreading it around.  At the same time, they prevented these same people from traveling to other parts of China.  So they knew their people were infected but apparently deliberately decided to infect the rest of the world.

Don´t remove your tin foil hat, beware of the cosmic rays...

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4596 on: May 19, 2020, 07:53:05 am »

... [masks] they're an important component of a "social distancing" strategy...

 ;D ;D ;D

Useless, yet important... got it (sorry, Chris, couldn't help it)

Actually, not taking a shower is an even more important part of social distancing. It gives a warning when you’re getting too close!

Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4597 on: May 19, 2020, 09:32:15 am »

Pity he doesn't drink.  I've heard it pairs well with a bottle of Lysol '18.

I don't recall it being mentioned that hydroxychloroquine had any protective or preventative function, so what would be the purpose of taking it long-term if you are not infected. Could it be analogous to the way we feed anti-biotics to livestock, to "prevent" disease?

I should add that I don't actually believe for one minute that he has been taking it. I think this is just media smoke, like most everything that he says or tweets, hence my question above about what he thinks is the upside of saying so.

Since it's a prescription drug, I also wonder about the ethical considerations of a doctor prescribing it under these conditions. I've only ever heard it suggested that it should be used in extreme cases when options were limited.

Or maybe this is one of those situations where we're not supposed to take what he says at face value, maybe there's a metaphor here I've missed.
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Chris Kern

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4598 on: May 19, 2020, 11:44:13 am »

I should add that I don't actually believe for one minute that he has been taking it. . . .

Apparently Trump is indeed taking it.  The official White House physician, U.S. Navy doctor Sean Conley, sent a memorandum to the president's press secretary confirming that he prescribed it:

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After numerous discussions he and I had regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks.

Dr. Conley's terse statement implied but did not explicitly state that Trump's desire to begin taking the drug was prompted by the discovery that his personal valet had tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

On April 24, after Trump started publicly touting hydroxychloroquine as a "game changer" treatment for COVID-19 patients, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration published a formal Drug Safety Communication stating that it had received "reports of serious heart rhythm problems in patients with COVID-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine."

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Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine can cause abnormal heart rhythms such as QT interval prolongation and a dangerously rapid heart rate called ventricular tachycardia.  These risks may increase when these medicines are combined with other medicines known to prolong the QT interval, including the antibiotic azithromycin, which is also being used in some COVID-19 patients without FDA approval for this condition.

A number of clinical studies are currently underway to determine whether hydroxychloroquine might be useful, perhaps in combination with other medications, in treating patients with COVID-19 infections.  As far as I am aware, so far there is no evidence that it is.  I haven't read of any studies that are attempting to determine whether it has any prophylactic properties, which presumably is Trump's reason for taking it.

Trump's decision has been publicly criticized by many American doctors―including, interestingly, by the "senior managing editor for health news" on the Fox cable TV news network, whose right-wing presenters repeatedly echoed Trump's initial endorsement of the drug but have since stopped promoting it.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4599 on: May 19, 2020, 12:06:12 pm »

Apparently Trump is indeed taking it.  The official White House physician, U.S. Navy doctor Sean Conley, sent a memorandum to the president's press secretary confirming that he prescribed it:

Dr. Conley's terse statement implied but did not explicitly state that Trump's desire to begin taking the drug was prompted by the discovery that his personal valet had tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

On April 24, after Trump started publicly touting hydroxychloroquine as a "game changer" treatment for COVID-19 patients, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration published a formal Drug Safety Communication stating that it had received "reports of serious heart rhythm problems in patients with COVID-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine."

A number of clinical studies are currently underway to determine whether hydroxychloroquine might be useful, perhaps in combination with other medications, in treating patients with COVID-19 infections.  As far as I am aware, so far there is no evidence that it is.  I haven't read of any studies that are attempting to determine whether it has any prophylactic properties, which presumably is Trump's reason for taking it.

Trump's decision has been publicly criticized by many American doctors―including, interestingly, by the "senior managing editor for health news" on the Fox cable TV news network, whose right-wing presenters repeatedly echoed Trump's initial endorsement of the drug but have since stopped promoting it.
It seems that the president will be part of the studies.
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