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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 503095 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4560 on: May 17, 2020, 08:06:05 pm »

Well China has put an 80% tariff on Australian beef and barley, as apparently they didn't like us asking for an enquiry.
So if you need some food contact our PM.
Will Australia put tariffs on Chinese exports to you?

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4561 on: May 17, 2020, 08:08:02 pm »

Yes, but its not a competition (and the statistics are not based on exactly the same figures, testing regimes differ as well).
Also, 58% of the fatalities in the USA are in only 5 states. One can only hope that the rest of the country (with less dense urbanization?) doesn't 'catch up'.

Russia and Brazil are catching up, and there will be food shortages in large parts of the world that will compound to the suffering.
I'm sure you have no ill will towards America.

Ray

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4562 on: May 17, 2020, 08:42:21 pm »

For starters, he has no actual bases to say it's grossly underreported, it's more an assumption based on the rarity. 

The article mentions what the basis is. Doctors and hospitals have their reputation to protect, and legal issues resulting from misdiagnosis and/or mistakes in treatment can have serious financial consequences, therefore it's reasonable to deduce that such events are under-reported.

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it is so rare that for all practical purposes, I wouldn't bring it as an argument that death is an opinion

The term used in Slobodan's quote from Nietzsche, which Bart was referring to, was 'interpretation'. Everything is subject to interpretation, even the death of a person. Misinterpretation of 'whatever we perceive through our senses' has been common throughout human history and continues today, especially when the issue is complex, as in Politics, Medicine, Climate Change, and even when the issue would appear to be quite basic, as in the question, 'Is a virus a form of life?'

Very clear examples of misinterpretation can be found in Photography. Apply a dark shade of grey to a brush in Photoshop, and write on a completely black background. Then use the same brush set to the same shade of grey, and write on a white background. Compare the texts on both backgrounds.

The text on the black page will will appear to be a relatively light shade of grey, whereas the text on the white page will appear to be black, or close to black. Those not familiar with the phenomenon would 'swear blind' that the texts are significantly different shades of grey.  ;D

Refer attached image which I've created to explain my point.  ;D


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armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4563 on: May 17, 2020, 10:33:26 pm »

The article mentions what the basis is. Doctors and hospitals have their reputation to protect, and legal issues resulting from misdiagnosis and/or mistakes in treatment can have serious financial consequences, therefore it's reasonable to deduce that such events are under-reported.

The term used in Slobodan's quote from Nietzsche, which Bart was referring to, was 'interpretation'. Everything is subject to interpretation, even the death of a person. Misinterpretation of 'whatever we perceive through our senses' has been common throughout human history and continues today, especially when the issue is complex, as in Politics, Medicine, Climate Change, and even when the issue would appear to be quite basic, as in the question, 'Is a virus a form of life?'

Very clear examples of misinterpretation can be found in Photography. Apply a dark shade of grey to a brush in Photoshop, and write on a completely black background. Then use the same brush set to the same shade of grey, and write on a white background. Compare the texts on both backgrounds.

The text on the black page will will appear to be a relatively light shade of grey, whereas the text on the white page will appear to be black, or close to black. Those not familiar with the phenomenon would 'swear blind' that the texts are significantly different shades of grey.  ;D

Refer attached image which I've created to explain my point.  ;D


You could read again what I said: no actual basis it's exactly that, but an assumption, which is likely partially true in the sense that there are more cases than what's reported. However, to say grossly underreported  when he has no evidence though it's just an assumption.

None of those people was actually reported dead and then woke up, it was just that the resuscitation efforts ended and they regained pulses within 10 min. Most also still died, just later. I saw a couple of cases who allegedly woke up in the morgue but most likely those who called the efforts didn't know what they were doing. Again, using something that's so rare that's practically zero to argue the point that death status it's an opinion and not a fact is just a pedantic exercise.
All those death reported in association with Covid-19 are actual deaths, unless somebody wanted to fake their own death. If you find pleasure in arguing against it, by all means, keep doing it.

Ray

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4564 on: May 18, 2020, 12:26:15 am »

You could read again what I said: no actual basis it's exactly that, but an assumption, which is likely partially true in the sense that there are more cases than what's reported. However, to say grossly underreported  when he has no evidence though it's just an assumption.

If there was an 'actual' basis there would be no under-reporting because the unreported cases would be reported, whether later or through a different process.

Whether or not the term 'grossly' is appropriate, is mere semantics. If you wish to use the term 'significantly' under-reported, I have no problem with that. However, there can be different opinions or interpretations of what constitutes 'significant' in a particular set of circumstances. If only half the cases of the ''Lazarus Phenomenon' are reported, does that constitute a 'significant' or a 'gross' under-reporting? This is really a deflection from the main issue which is that all opinions are a result of an interpretation of the evidence available to us.

Quote
None of those people was actually reported dead and then woke up, it was just that the resuscitation efforts ended and they regained pulses within 10 min. Most also still died, just later. I saw a couple of cases who allegedly woke up in the morgue but most likely those who called the efforts didn't know what they were doing. Again, using something that's so rare that's practically zero to argue the point that death status it's an opinion and not a fact is just a pedantic exercise.

Read again what I wrote in response to Bart. I wrote: 'Sometimes it is just an opinion', and then gave some examples.

I would agree that in the vast majority of cases when a doctor expresses his opinion that a person's body has ceased to function, he is probably almost always correct, with very few exceptions. However, before the era of modern medicine, I would 'deduce' that the Lazarus Phenomenon would have been more common. There are a number of stories available on the internet, of people who appear to have been buried alive. On the few occasions when coffins are dug up or resumed, perhaps in order to identify the occupant, scratch marks on the inside of the coffin are sometimes found, as well as torn shrouds, and sometimes the corpse is found sitting in an upward position rather than lying down.

It's a horrible scenario to imagine someone waking up whilst buried in a coffin, but my 'opinion' based on my interpretation of the evidence, is that it has happened.

There are also religious issues. If you believe in an eternal 'soul' or identity, then a person never really dies. His body just stops functioning and the 'person' either migrates to another body (if you believe in Reincarnation), or resides in Heaven or Hell (if you believe in the Creator God).

However, I'm not religious, but I accept that what is currently 'unknown' or 'not understood' is far greater than the combined knowledge of humanity with all his various scientific disciplines. The current hypothesis that approximately 95% of all the matter and energy in the universe is invisible and undetectable, even by the most sophisticated scientific instruments, is an example of the limited extent of our knowledge.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4565 on: May 18, 2020, 10:14:23 am »

However, before the era of modern medicine, I would 'deduce' that the Lazarus Phenomenon would have been more common. There are a number of stories available on the internet, of people who appear to have been buried alive. On the few occasions when coffins are dug up or resumed, perhaps in order to identify the occupant, scratch marks on the inside of the coffin are sometimes found, as well as torn shrouds, and sometimes the corpse is found sitting in an upward position rather than lying down.

These people must be buried in extra large coffins for them to able to manipulate their arms to scratch the inside of the coffin or for them to be found sitting in an upward position. If not buried in a coffin, how were they able to move into a sitting position with six feet of dirt on top of them. To say nothing of a lack of oxygen. But since these stories appear on the internet they must be true. I read a story once where a doctor assembled a man from the parts of many dead men and ran an electric current from a bolt of lightning through his brain to revive him. It ultimately didn't work out too well.

The last paragraph for the article linked to:

"But healthcare professionals and researchers alike are in general agreement that in this day and age, physicians have the expertise and medical equipment to effectively determine when a patient has passed."
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 11:10:01 am by faberryman »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4566 on: May 18, 2020, 11:01:23 am »

Not many more places for this thread to go now. Immaculate conception next, maybe?
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Robert

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4567 on: May 18, 2020, 11:11:46 am »

Not many more places for this thread to go now. Immaculate conception next, maybe?
Alien abductions: Republican or Democrat.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4568 on: May 18, 2020, 11:15:56 am »

Alien abductions: Republican or Democrat.

Oh right, forgot about those. I stand corrected.

How did Roswell, New Mexico, vote in the past?
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4569 on: May 18, 2020, 11:28:08 am »

You can file this in the damned if you do or damned if you don't category.

New Evidence Shows Wearing Face Mask Can Help Coronavirus Enter the Brain and Pose More Health Risk, Warn Expert

Researchers suggest that the benefits of using N95 masks to prevent contraction of infectious diseases should be weighed against possible respiratory consequences linked with extended use of N95 masks.

Newer evidence also reveals that the coronavirus may enter the brain in some cases. By wearing a mask, viruses released upon expiration will not be given a chance to escape and will further congregate in the nasal passages. This allows the virus to enter the olfactory nerves and travel further, eventually reaching the brain.

Dr. Blaylock says that one should not attack or criticize healthy people who do not wear masks, as studies point out that it may be a wise choice after all.

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25713/20200518/wearing-face-masks-potentially-harmful-trap-exhaled-viruses-well-individuals.htm

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4570 on: May 18, 2020, 11:33:34 am »

I thought Japan was doing so well.  Weren't good pandemic figures suppose to allay economic problems?

Japan braces for worst postwar slump as pandemic tips economy into recession
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-economy-gdp/japan-braces-for-worst-postwar-slump-as-pandemic-tips-economy-into-recession-idUSKBN22U001

kers

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4571 on: May 18, 2020, 11:39:07 am »

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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4572 on: May 18, 2020, 11:55:35 am »

I thought Japan was doing so well.  Weren't good pandemic figures suppose to allay economic problems?

Japan braces for worst postwar slump as pandemic tips economy into recession
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-economy-gdp/japan-braces-for-worst-postwar-slump-as-pandemic-tips-economy-into-recession-idUSKBN22U001

No. Like the pandemic, economic crisis is global. The whole idea of flattening the curve was to save lives and avoid health systems from collapsing.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4573 on: May 18, 2020, 12:01:27 pm »

No. Like the pandemic, economic crisis is global. The whole idea of flattening the curve was to save lives and avoid health systems from collapsing.
That's not what you've been preaching.  You've changed your position.  We've long passed the need to flatten the curve so hospitals don't get overwhelmed.  You've been insisting we should stay shut and save lives.  You've been arguing that we shouldn't be re-opening, even though the health system here is no longer being overwhelmed. 

armand

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4574 on: May 18, 2020, 12:01:48 pm »

You can file this in the damned if you do or damned if you don't category.

New Evidence Shows Wearing Face Mask Can Help Coronavirus Enter the Brain and Pose More Health Risk, Warn Expert

Researchers suggest that the benefits of using N95 masks to prevent contraction of infectious diseases should be weighed against possible respiratory consequences linked with extended use of N95 masks.

Newer evidence also reveals that the coronavirus may enter the brain in some cases. By wearing a mask, viruses released upon expiration will not be given a chance to escape and will further congregate in the nasal passages. This allows the virus to enter the olfactory nerves and travel further, eventually reaching the brain.

Dr. Blaylock says that one should not attack or criticize healthy people who do not wear masks, as studies point out that it may be a wise choice after all.

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25713/20200518/wearing-face-masks-potentially-harmful-trap-exhaled-viruses-well-individuals.htm

You shouldn't believe everything that's on the internet.
That article and that statement in it are so stupid it hurts.  There is no evidence  actually if you read. It goes from the fact that coronavirus can affect the brain to the fact that if you wear a mask it somehow gives more time to the virus to go to the brain; I'm not going to go into detail but this is idiotic. Of course in the comments it circles back to the fraud from Plandemic. Also what that doctor said about facemasks it's actually more nuanced.

Yes, the N95 can be a health hazard for the wearer, but the wearers are medical professional (or should be) and it's related to its prolonged use. I went up 8 flights of stairs with a N95 and another mask with a faceshield over, when I got to the 8th floor my life was flashing before my eyes. What general population should use is regular/nonmedical facemasks to try to decrease the rate of droplet spreading from asymptomatic people (in theory) and from overtly sick people (in practice, as many who are sick won't stay home or isolated). Besides some minor fogging it's not that difficult to breath through, I mean something similar has been used for many activities, eg skiing. No, they are not too effective to protect you from infection. I think the jury is out if it actually leads you to touch your face more often, I think most people were anyway but didn't realize it and it's less likely to touch your mouth. I cringe however when I see people who keep fumbling with them, or wear them on the neck, half off, under the nose, etc.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4575 on: May 18, 2020, 12:13:33 pm »

You shouldn't believe everything that's on the internet.
That article and that statement in it are so stupid it hurts.  There is no evidence  actually if you read. It goes from the fact that coronavirus can affect the brain to the fact that if you wear a mask it somehow gives more time to the virus to go to the brain; I'm not going to go into detail but this is idiotic. Of course in the comments it circles back to the fraud from Plandemic. Also what that doctor said about facemasks it's actually more nuanced.

Yes, the N95 can be a health hazard for the wearer, but the wearers are medical professional (or should be) and it's related to its prolonged use. I went up 8 flights of stairs with a N95 and another mask with a faceshield over, when I got to the 8th floor my life was flashing before my eyes. What general population should use is regular/nonmedical facemasks to try to decrease the rate of droplet spreading from asymptomatic people (in theory) and from overtly sick people (in practice, as many who are sick won't stay home or isolated). Besides some minor fogging it's not that difficult to breath through, I mean something similar has been used for many activities, eg skiing. No, they are not too effective to protect you from infection. I think the jury is out if it actually leads you to touch your face more often, I think most people were anyway but didn't realize it and it's less likely to touch your mouth. I cringe however when I see people who keep fumbling with them, or wear them on the neck, half off, under the nose, etc.


I see that too. A stock boy was loading up the groceries I ordered online into the trunk of my car at curbside.  I could see him from the rear view mirror lifting his mask off and wiping his nose with the back of his hand then handling my bags after putting the mask back on over his mouth.  Yeach!   So just how effective are they?  More expert opinions.  What are the poor uninformed public suppose to do?  Even your post complains about the lack of effectiveness depending on factors.  So which experts does the public listen too?  The whole thing is iffy.  Gloves are a whole other problem  with people not knowing how to use them.  All they do is move the virus around with their gloves instead of the bare hands.  But because they have gloves on, they think they're protected. 

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4576 on: May 18, 2020, 12:27:46 pm »

There you go, another horrible consequence of the idiotic lockdowns:

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25709/20200516/fishes-australian-aquariums-show-signs-depression-human-visitors-interact-amid.htm

Fishes in Australian Aquariums Show Signs of Depression with No Human Visitors to Interact with Amid COVID-19 Pandemic

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4577 on: May 18, 2020, 12:30:54 pm »

So maybe the coronavirus did not originate from the Wuhan virology lab.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-contractors-report-on-wuhan-lab-origins-of-coronavirus-is-bogus
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4578 on: May 18, 2020, 12:37:17 pm »

There you go, another horrible consequence of the idiotic lockdowns:

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25709/20200516/fishes-australian-aquariums-show-signs-depression-human-visitors-interact-amid.htm

Fishes in Australian Aquariums Show Signs of Depression with No Human Visitors to Interact with Amid COVID-19 Pandemic
Here in New Jersey, Six Flags is going to open their animal safari park to private vehicles again.  For years, they stopped that and only had their own buses to take visitors.  But because of the virus, they've had no visitors at all.  Now, they're going to allow private cars to drive through again.  I can't wait to go there so I can cheer up the animals. If fish can get depressed, imagine a baboon.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #4579 on: May 18, 2020, 12:42:40 pm »

So maybe the coronavirus did not originate from the Wuhan virology lab.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-contractors-report-on-wuhan-lab-origins-of-coronavirus-is-bogus
The issue is not where it started.  The issue is China kept the facts about it's danger from the rest of the world and allowed their infected citizens to travel to other parts of the world spreading it around.  At the same time, they prevented these same people from traveling to other parts of China.  So they knew their people were infected but apparently deliberately decided to infect the rest of the world. 
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