PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[BobShaw]

You have a hard time what to believe.
But why always believe Trump?; and why is Trump always right and is critisism just simply anti-Trump. What is wrong with facts?
Start thinking.
I feel lucky I live in a country not divided in Right vs Wrong - Us against Them;  In my country truth and facts are unpolitical and unbiased and get they importance they deserve. we believe in facts and reason.
People here are quite open minded and our prime minister is not in for the money/power, acts rational, logica, follows experts advice and tries to unite people.

I think that most countries are similar. Obviously there are politics but during a crisis both sides generally see what needs to be done and act in the national good.

I just glanced through Worldometer and there are 10 countries with more than 100 deaths a day. Most are in the teens or less. Here in Australia we have started to relax restrictions. We have had one death in the last week. We had 18 in a single nursing home so you still need to be careful. An interesting thing is that deaths from heart attack are up by 48 a day. There is definitely a push to be less dependant on imports.

I was watching the news this morning and they were discussing Vietnam. They have a border with China yet they have had only about 300 cases and not a single death. They closed their borders very early and the people complied with instructions.

[John Camp]

Mother Jones has been against Trump for four years.  They have called him a traitor and worse.  I wouldn't trust anything they have to say.

You know how much I dislike Trump; I would match my level of dislike against anyone's. But you're right about Mother Jones. They're an embarrassment to any legit journalist.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Hold on... something doesn't make sense here. Once coughed out, the C19 virus falls on a surface, and can live there for between a couple of hours to a couple of days.

Viruses and bacteria have appeared in the geologic record since hundreds of millions of years. The quantity of sars-cov-2 today is more than what people sneeze or transmit. Viruses do not die, as they were never alive to start with. Read the articles.

[elliot_n]

The outbreaks in Brazil, Ecuador and Mexico suggest that Covid isn't going to disappear in the summer.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... What is wrong with facts?
... facts are unpolitical and unbiased and get they importance they deserve. we believe in facts...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I found an incontrovertible scientific evidence the Chinese virus is, like all made-in-China things, short-lived and already falling apart: at the height of the panic, it would take me at least five pages to catch up with this thread (due to the time difference between Europe and America - when I go to sleep, you North Americans are busy posting). In the last day or two, I am just one or two pages behind.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

So, according to you(?), when the oxygen level in our blood drops too far for too long (e.g. due to COVID-19) one doesn't die, because death is just an opinion ?

[Robert Roaldi]

Eric Trump weighs in on the contagion, https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/eric-trump-covid-19-biden-disappear_n_5ec0b627c5b6d456749bed3d. Turns out, it's all about Biden.

Public debate suffers another blow. 

Remember when we used to make fun of Italian politics?

On the statistics front, according to Worldometer Russia is moving quickly up the leader board in the Covid-19 numbers, while Brazil will soon break through the top ranks.

[Ray]

So, according to you(?), when the oxygen level in our blood drops too far for too long (e.g. due to COVID-19) one doesn't die, because death is just an opinion ?

Sometimes it is just an opinion, Bart. Ever heard of the Lazarus Phenomenon? 

"The Lazarus phenomenon, or Lazarus syndrome, is defined as a delayed return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after CPR has ceased. In other words, patients who are pronounced dead after cardiac arrest experience an impromptu return of cardiac activity.

The Lazarus phenomenon is a grossly under-reported event,” notes Maxillofacial Surgeon Dr. Vaibhav Sahni in a 2016 report.
The reason for these can be attributed to the fact that medico-legal issues are brought to light in cases which are pronounced dead which later turn out to have been alive,” he explains. “The professional expertise of the resuscitating doctor can be brought into question, not to mention the fact that such an event can lead to disrepute among colleagues.”

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317645#What-is-Lazarus-syndrome?

[Alan Klein]

You know how much I dislike Trump; I would match my level of dislike against anyone's. But you're right about Mother Jones. They're an embarrassment to any legit journalist.

Thanks for being fair minded and honest.

[Alan Klein]

You have a hard time what to believe.
But why always believe Trump?; and why is Trump always right and is critisism just simply anti-Trump. What is wrong with facts?
Start thinking.
I feel lucky I live in a country not divided in Right vs Wrong - Us against Them;  In my country truth and facts are unpolitical and unbiased and get they importance they deserve. we believe in facts and reason.
People here are quite open minded and our prime minister is not in for the money/power, acts rational, logica, follows experts advice and tries to unite people.

"Put not your trust in princes."

[armand]

Sometimes it is just an opinion, Bart. Ever heard of the Lazarus Phenomenon? 

"The Lazarus phenomenon, or Lazarus syndrome, is defined as a delayed return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after CPR has ceased. In other words, patients who are pronounced dead after cardiac arrest experience an impromptu return of cardiac activity.

The Lazarus phenomenon is a grossly under-reported event,” notes Maxillofacial Surgeon Dr. Vaibhav Sahni in a 2016 report.
The reason for these can be attributed to the fact that medico-legal issues are brought to light in cases which are pronounced dead which later turn out to have been alive,” he explains. “The professional expertise of the resuscitating doctor can be brought into question, not to mention the fact that such an event can lead to disrepute among colleagues.”

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317645#What-is-Lazarus-syndrome?

For starters, he has no actual bases to say it's grossly underreported, it's more an assumption based on the rarity. There were 32 reported cases since 1982, out of 10+ millions of cardiac arrests. Even if significantly underreported, lets make it 10 times as many cases, it is so rare that for all practical purposes, I wouldn't bring it as an argument that death it's an opinion. Not to mention most that regained pulses after CPR was stopped, died shortly after anyway.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Horrible. The USA just passed 89,000 reported opinions COVID-19 deaths, in a bit more than 2 months.

[Chris Kern]

Horrible. The USA just passed 89,000 reported opinions COVID-19 deaths, in a bit more than 2 months.

It is indeed horrible.  However, the raw total, though appalling, nevertheless is not inconsistent with what other industrial countries are experiencing using two standard normalized metrics of SARS-CoV-2 mortality: the number of deaths per 100K of population and the number of deaths per 100 confirmed cases.  See the attached graphs, snarfed from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine website.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

It is indeed horrible.  However, the raw total, though appalling, nevertheless is not inconsistent with what other industrial countries are experiencing using two standard normalized metrics of SARS-CoV-2 mortality: the number of deaths per 100K of population and the number of deaths per 100 confirmed cases.  See the attached graphs, snarfed from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine website.

Yes, but its not a competition (and the statistics are not based on exactly the same figures, testing regimes differ as well).
Also, 58% of the fatalities in the USA are in only 5 states. One can only hope that the rest of the country (with less dense urbanization?) doesn't 'catch up'.

Russia and Brazil are catching up, and there will be food shortages in large parts of the world that will compound to the suffering.

[Chris Kern]

the statistics are not based on exactly the same figures, testing regimes differ as well

Yes, that's an important point.  I would be cautious not to over-interpret these data―or any other cross-national statistics, for that matter.  That's why I used the phrase "not inconsistent" rather than a more precise comparative term.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Horrible....

Natural.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Natural.

Not really, it's despite social distancing, quarantining, and isolation.

[Alan Klein]

SENIOR MEDICAL ADVISOR IN CHINA WARNS OF SECOND WAVE, SAYS COUNTRY IS 'NOT BETTER THAN THE FOREIGN COUNTRIES'
https://www.newsweek.com/china-coronavirus-second-wave-citizens-risk-new-infection-clusters-lockdowns-1504618

[BobShaw]

Russia and Brazil are catching up, and there will be food shortages in large parts of the world that will compound to the suffering.

Well China has put an 80% tariff on Australian beef and barley, as apparently they didn't like us asking for an enquiry.
So if you need some food contact our PM.