PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I’m not being funny; I’m being serious.  Masks are suppose to be so good, even ones you make yourself according to the experts that Muslim countries must have an advantage.

But they don’t so these home masks are all BS.

(most) men in Arab countries don't wear a niqab or burka.

[JoeKitchen]

(most) men in Arab countries don't wear a niqab or burka.

Yes, but women do Bart.  That's half the population wearing masks, half. 

If masks work so well, having half the population wearing would give you an advantage by greatly reducing those whom spread it.  You know, you would expect that to lower the "R" value by a fair margin.  Yet, that is not what happened. 

Medical masks in a medical facility where the viral load is high, like a hospital, I'll buy a certified mask does something.  Outside of that using just plain cloth, it does nothing. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Yes, but women do Bart.  That's half the population wearing masks, half.

And they are not social distancing themselves from their husbands or children, nor do they wear the covering indoors.

[chez]

Yes, but women do Bart.  That's half the population wearing masks, half. 

If masks work so well, having half the population wearing would give you an advantage by greatly reducing those whom spread it.  Yet, that is not what happened. 

Medical masks in a medical facility where the viral load is high, like a hospital, I'll buy a certified mask does something.  Outside of that using just plain cloth, it does nothing.

Here's a doctor from the mayo clinic that says otherwise.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/heres-how-wearing-a-cloth-mask-helps-fight-the-spread-of-coronavirus/

“There is evidence that such masks reduce the exhaled aerosols from infectious, but asymptomatic, individuals.” he says. By blocking the exhale of virus particles in to the air around you, your mask is keeping the virus from spreading."

Now whom to believe...Joe the photographer or the doctor...let me think a second here.

[John Camp]

I think many of my doctors have not been working.  I did get a call back from my cardiologist one time. But another time I had a question about my medication, he never returned my call.  My dentist was actually more helpful.  Although he only plans on re-opening his office next week, he gave me his cell phone number. I have had a number of phone conversations with him about issues I had and he was more helpful than my doctors. Meanwhile, my pharmacy can't renew my diabetes medicine because they can't get through to my regular internist.  Going to a hospital solves none of these issues.  Hopefully they'll all be back soon.  But the problem is I don't trust that they'll take consistent measures to protect themselves and their patients.

Maybe he died from COVID-19.

[faberryman]

Now whom to believe...Joe the photographer or the doctor...let me think a second here.

The whole face mask thing is a conspiracy by face mask manufacturers to sell more face masks. I am pretty sure Hunter Biden is on the board of one of those companies. I 'll bet Lindsay Graham and Ron Johnson are all over this.

[chez]

Now I understand why some here don't think face masks are that effective...they are just following their leader and it doesn't seem to stop any of spewing from sneezes.

[JoeKitchen]

Here's a doctor from the mayo clinic that says otherwise.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/heres-how-wearing-a-cloth-mask-helps-fight-the-spread-of-coronavirus/

“There is evidence that such masks reduce the exhaled aerosols from infectious, but asymptomatic, individuals.” he says. By blocking the exhale of virus particles in to the air around you, your mask is keeping the virus from spreading."

Now whom to believe...Joe the photographer or the doctor...let me think a second here.

Or the peer reviewed article (not yours FYI) that Slobo posted. 

Yes hard decision.

Another:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/are-face-masks-effective-reducing-coronavirus-spread.html

[chez]

Now this is one mask I whole heartedly would support.

[JoeKitchen]

And they are not social distancing themselves from their husbands or children, nor do they wear the covering indoors.

Neither are we Bart, but supposedly wearing them in public (like Muslim women) is supposed to have an effect.  Given those countries we’re doing this before, that should have given them an advantage.  I have yet to see any evidence on this. 

[chez]

Neither are we Bart, but supposedly wearing them in public (like Muslim women) is supposed to have an effect.  Given those countries we’re doing this before, that should have given them an advantage.

Ok, I'll play. Given that the US has the best medical system, the richest country, the best research yada...yada...yada, why are there so many deaths? The answer here is not so simple, just like the answer to why Iran had such a rough time.

Who says the deaths in Iran would not have been much higher if the women didn't cover their mouths?

Oh...and Iran has 86 deaths / million people while the US has 290 deaths / million people. So maybe those covered woman actually had some influence on the spread.

[JoeKitchen]

Ok, I'll play. Given that the US has the best medical system, the richest country, the best research yada...yada...yada, why are there so many deaths? The answer here is not so simple, just like the answer to why Iran had such a rough time.

Who says the deaths in Iran would not have been much higher if the women didn't cover their mouths?

Oh...and Iran has 86 deaths / million people while the US has 290 deaths / million people. So maybe those covered woman actually had some influence on the spread.

Well first, the numbers out of Iran are suspect right now. 

Second, take out NYC and our death rate is the best in the world practically.  So who is to say the niqabs did anything, or would it be that population density is the real reason. 

If you look at Europe, there are great disparities between countries that no one can answer.  The countries that locked down the most were the hardest hit, while Sweden, who did not lock down, is doing relatively well in comparison. 

So the way I see it, no one knows their ass from a hole in the ground here, and they are just throwing everything they can at it, including all of our rights.  The experts have either being proved wrong multiple times in the last 3 months or are conflicting with each other, yet only one side gets the press. 

So there is no reason to trust them with policy at this point.  They have not earned it. 

That is why Trump will win in November.  Out of every politician, on both sides, in the last 50 years that governed through a emergency, he is the only one who has not tried to decrease our rights on a national level.  That is fine by me. 

Meanwhile our exalted press doing a stellar job.  Dan Gainor: Andrew Cuomo and brother Chris make a mockery of journalism, viewers and CNN  Just what I want to know during a pandemic, is Andrew Cuomo's nose so big he needs an extra large cotton swab.  Who cares about the nursing home disaster Cuomo caused. 

[JoeKitchen]

Any objective view of this comes away with one clear truth, DeSantis totally nailed this response, whereas Cuomo completely botched it.

Yet those in the media, like his brother, praise Cuomo and vilify DeSantis. 

[armand]

You can, as a minimum, ease on the profanities.

The point we are making has nothing to do with you personally and how you spend your time. But your example is a proof that the situation is not so dire as described in media.

No, you are being dishonest, aka lying.
No, you wouldn't care how I spend my time if I was agreeing with you.
If I'm busy or not is irrelevant, I'm only a sample of one from only one region. Even you can realize that is meaningless when you talking about a whole country where the current disease spread is heterogeneous.
What you and the other jerk are saying that if I was a busy physician I shouldn't have the time to do anything but eat, sleep and work. Besides the idiocy of this and the archaic way of thinking (I should be as a slave and eventually die working for your right to be a snowflake and keep whining about a mask, right?), it shows that you are always looking for that straw man argument.
But you are right that my time is wasted on you; as  Isaid before you are not looking for actual info or another point of view, only to spread your agenda.

And in regards to my language, it's playpen here, I'll use whatever I think it will cut through the thick faster, after all, I'm busy.

[Peter McLennan]

Given those countries we’re doing this before, that should have given them an advantage.  I have yet to see any evidence on this.

How 'bout Taiwan?  Or South Korea?  Or Singapore?  All jurisdictions with a long history of their citizens wearing masks in public.  Ever been to any of them?

All of whom have experienced far less effects from COVID-19, despite their population density.

[armand]

I think Armand ignored that too.  After all, those healthcare workers only have so much free time right now.  Posting on the Internet yes.  Reading peer reviewed medical articles, not so much.

Hey, jerk, how about you limit yourself to your ignorance which you so freely spread and don't comment about my professional attitude and competency of which you have no idea. Not that stopped you so far but this is going too far. In my profession I'm better than most and the fact that I humor myself responding to you doesn't mean you know me.
I have nothing to respond to you that was not being responded before in these threads but you ignored and kept looking for something else.

[armand]

I think many of my doctors have not been working.  I did get a call back from my cardiologist one time.  But another time I had a question about my medication, he never returned my call.  My dentist was actually more helpful.  Although he only plans on re-opening his office next week, he gave me his cell phone number. I have had a number of phone conversations with him about issues I had and he was more helpful than my doctors. Meanwhile, my pharmacy can't renew my diabetes medicine because they can't get through to my regular internist.  Going to a hospital solves none of these issues.  Hopefully they'll all be back soon.  But the problem is I don't trust that they'll take consistent measures to protect themselves and their patients.

I feel this could have been handled better. In my healthcare system they offer virtual visits on zoom or similar, if I recall they were quite cheap (with or without insurance), and I would venture to say that a competent physician can deal with a majority of the problems that he could have dealt in person, and at least direct you to ER or elsewhere if need be. The pharmacies around are open so that shouldn't be a problem.

[Chris Kern]

How 'bout Taiwan?  Or South Korea?  Or Singapore?  All jurisdictions with a long history of their citizens wearing masks in public.  Ever been to any of them?

I've never visited South Korea, but I've been to Taiwan and Singapore a number of times and you don't see that many people on the street wearing masks—the way you do, for example, in Japan.  My impression is that people in Taiwan and Singapore for the most part only put on masks when they are sick: i.e., as a courtesy, so they won't affect others who are in close proximity to them.

Which, of course, is why medical and epidemiological experts are urging everyone to wear face coverings now.  Because even if you don't feel sick, you could be infected with and shedding the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... After all, those healthcare workers only have so much free time right now...

1.4 million of healthcare workers have all the time in the world now:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-loses-14-million-health-care-jobs-in-april-2020-05-08?fbclid=IwAR1QgZ-q7Glku6Y3HCv2p4iiutgYPm85iRv9yztUOYVlm2adMgEgKk3yVc0

The Wall Street Journal

U.S. loses 1.4 million health-care jobs in April

[faberryman]

Joe, you could follow Trump's lead:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/trump-doesnt-wear-coronavirus-mask-to-ford-plant.html

What a guy!