Pages: 1 ... 61 62 [63] 64 65 ... 72   Go Down

Author Topic: COVID-19 updates  (Read 84089 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8919
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1240 on: March 25, 2020, 10:56:35 am »

I watched the official briefing by the Dutch "National Institute for Public Health and the Environment" to our "Second Chamber" (our version of US Congress), and again was impressed by the very clear and scientifically founded description of the current Dutch Status. Totally exempt of bullshit or bloated statemnts, and even loaded questions were clinically disected and fully answered.

One of the parliamentarians' questions was, "When we're effectively flattening the curve, how long will it take to go back to normal".
The (only) correct answer:
1. That is not our main focus, we're trying to avoid ICU and Medical personnel overload.
2. Besides, it also depends on how well the general public adheres to the guidelines.
3. Until new insights emerge that allow us to change the guidelines or principles, count on several months as a minimum.

This was surrounded by solid case evidence, comparisons with what other countries did (insofar relevant for the local situation, which it often is not),
easy to understand graphs, ensemble models of all possible modeled outcomes and which working scenarios were chosen and why.

The Dutch "R0 or R-naught" has now fallen to approx. 2.0, but when the latest numbers are validated and added, we're heading for an R0=1. But there is a delay of 2-3 days in getting the latest ICU statistics, so thing may change a bit in either direction.

Based on the current demographics of patients, but that may be different for other countries, it looks like 2% of the patients will die. Children seem to be relatively unaffected, and a study is being conducted to see if the mechanism of becoming contagious, or susceptibility to getting infected, is different from older people. The results are expected in the near term.
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Paulo Bizarro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7522
    • http://www.paulobizarro.com
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1241 on: March 25, 2020, 11:07:28 am »

I disagree and debunked it was not. Of course we have hindsight but people had some of the info in their face and did nothing with it.

Anyway I don't think I can convince you otherwise so all this is not going to change anything. The only reason I'm still doing it at some extent is that after a week of staying home I can only find so many things to do.

Europe had at least 2 months to prepare for it, but they chose to be reactiveahter than proactive.

The USA had 3 months to prepare for it. They chose similar to Europe.

I remember back in February an Italian doctor comiong on TV and pleading people to stop calling SARS-CoV-2 a "flu". Nobody listened to him.

In the end, it was notvery difficult to model the "power" of a virus with R0 of 3 to 4 leashed upon a population with no immunity - it was easy enough to see that if left unchecked (and it requires timely measures, not late ones) it would crash health systems.

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1242 on: March 25, 2020, 11:36:58 am »

I think we're really be too hard on leaders.  In the beginning, it's very difficult to make a decision to shut down an entire economy and isolate everyone without proven information that seems dire.  Plus, would people really listen?  Look how hard it is to get some to isolate even with what has happened. 

Jim Pascoe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1131
    • http://www.jimpascoe.co.uk
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1243 on: March 25, 2020, 12:00:09 pm »

I think we're really be too hard on leaders.  In the beginning, it's very difficult to make a decision to shut down an entire economy and isolate everyone without proven information that seems dire.  Plus, would people really listen?  Look how hard it is to get some to isolate even with what has happened.

In this I agree with you Alan.  Once this is over - I'm hoping much better global planning and protocols will be put in place so that action can be decisive when another pandemic occurs.

Jim
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8919
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1244 on: March 25, 2020, 12:15:02 pm »

I think we're really be too hard on leaders.

Depends on whether they put self-interest, or the nation's interests, first.
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Jim Pascoe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1131
    • http://www.jimpascoe.co.uk
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1245 on: March 25, 2020, 12:17:42 pm »

Some small glimmer of positive news from a BBC report today -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52035615

Jim
Logged

MattBurt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4132
  • Looking for that other shot
    • Matt Burt Photography
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1246 on: March 25, 2020, 12:32:06 pm »

I watched the official briefing by the Dutch "National Institute for Public Health and the Environment" to our "Second Chamber" (our version of US Congress), and again was impressed by the very clear and scientifically founded description of the current Dutch Status. Totally exempt of bullshit or bloated statemnts, and even loaded questions were clinically disected and fully answered.

Wow, I'm jealous. I imagine our previous president would have reacted similarly.
Hopefully our next one will too.
Logged
-MattB

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5514
    • Robert's Photos
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1247 on: March 25, 2020, 12:48:26 pm »

...Once this is over - I'm hoping much better global planning and protocols will be put in place so that action can be decisive when another pandemic occurs.

I hope so too but history isn't on your side. We've had plenty of dry runs (SARS, H1N1), the lessons were learned, the papers were written, the memos drafted. But once an election or two goes by, memories fade and it appears that the various experts, even the ones who work in national security roles, have a difficult time being listened to. They speak up and they're dismissed or fired. We set up the infrastructure but then when it speaks we don't listen because it's inconvenient. We don't even seem to be able to do the minimum, like keep hospitals stocked with basic equipment like masks and UV bags if the supply chain takes a hit. That shouldn't be that hard to do but somehow the systems in place can't manage it.

I'm not encouraged.
Logged
--
Robert

KLaban

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2752
    • Keith Laban Photography
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1248 on: March 25, 2020, 12:59:51 pm »

Some small glimmer of positive news from a BBC report today -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52035615

Jim

Fingers crossed. Thanks for posting.

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18209
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1249 on: March 25, 2020, 01:20:48 pm »

Thank you Bart!...

Awww!!! Two lefties patting each other on the back! Who would have thought? One says "let's blame Trump" and millions of proletarians of the world unite in "hell, yeah, comrade!"

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18209
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1250 on: March 25, 2020, 01:21:47 pm »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8148463/US-doctors-hoarding-drugs-tested-treating-coronavirus.html?fbclid=IwAR2v1jHjdhfHNQ9ARu0Ob24XrOOwaBM5oIVWlJFsevQATj034XYOTlaMsd0

US doctors are prescribing THEMSELVES experimental drugs Trump touted for treating coronavirus and hoarding the pills, report finds

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18209
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1251 on: March 25, 2020, 01:33:17 pm »

"Gallup finds 60% of voters approve of his handling of the crisis"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-virus-may-make-trump-stronger-11585149792

KLaban

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2752
    • Keith Laban Photography
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1252 on: March 25, 2020, 01:40:37 pm »

"Gallup finds 60% of voters approve of his handling of the crisis"

Let's hope they live to tell the tale.

;-)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8919
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1253 on: March 25, 2020, 01:41:10 pm »

Awww!!! Two lefties patting each other on the back! Who would have thought? One says "let's blame Trump" and millions of proletarians of the world unite in "hell, yeah, comrade!"

I wish you a speedy recovery. I've given up on hoping that a better person might emerge out of your situation though.

I am also recovering from what appears to be a case of Covid-19, and after a week and a half things are starting to improve. It also didn't change the person I am.
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5514
    • Robert's Photos
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1254 on: March 25, 2020, 01:49:59 pm »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8148463/US-doctors-hoarding-drugs-tested-treating-coronavirus.html?fbclid=IwAR2v1jHjdhfHNQ9ARu0Ob24XrOOwaBM5oIVWlJFsevQATj034XYOTlaMsd0

US doctors are prescribing THEMSELVES experimental drugs Trump touted for treating coronavirus and hoarding the pills, report finds

We'll see if that turns out to be true. Although it's not hard to imagine a doc or two doing something stupid. Wouldn't be the first time.
Logged
--
Robert

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5514
    • Robert's Photos
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1255 on: March 25, 2020, 01:51:12 pm »

Awww!!! Two lefties patting each other on the back! Who would have thought? One says "let's blame Trump" and millions of proletarians of the world unite in "hell, yeah, comrade!"

"lefties?"

You slay me.
Logged
--
Robert

Robert Roaldi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5514
    • Robert's Photos
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1256 on: March 25, 2020, 01:56:08 pm »

"Gallup finds 60% of voters approve of his handling of the crisis"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-virus-may-make-trump-stronger-11585149792

Not much of a comment to make here except that the tendency is to brag about polls that tell you what you want to hear and to disparage them when they don't.

Didn't the polls predict a Hilary victory?

The data is worth what it is worth. The only thing that matters is to reduce transmission of the virus. If some egos get inflated along the way, that's cool. No one will remember that by tomorrow morning.
Logged
--
Robert

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18209
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1257 on: March 25, 2020, 02:29:48 pm »

Not much of a comment to make here except that the tendency is to brag about polls that tell you what you want to hear and to disparage them when they don't.

Didn't the polls predict a Hilary victory?

The data is worth what it is worth. The only thing that matters is to reduce transmission of the virus. If some egos get inflated along the way, that's cool. No one will remember that by tomorrow morning.

In agreement. About the polls. And tomorrow morning.

James Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1258 on: March 25, 2020, 02:53:53 pm »

Awww!!! Two lefties patting each other on the back! Who would have thought? One says "let's blame Trump" and millions of proletarians of the world unite in "hell, yeah, comrade!"

I'm glad you're feeling better :D
Logged

armand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5566
    • Photos
Re: COVID-19 updates
« Reply #1259 on: March 25, 2020, 03:06:38 pm »

Awww!!! Two lefties patting each other on the back! Who would have thought? One says "let's blame Trump" and millions of proletarians of the world unite in "hell, yeah, comrade!"

Is that supposed to make me feel bad?  :o

Trump knows it's base, very gullible and he has you by the palm of his hand. He says jump, you ask how high. You lost all critical thinking whatsoever about him. If he shoots your friend on 5th ave, after getting over the initial shock, you will find a justification for that. Say something bad about him without being followed by but. I get it, he makes you feel empowered because he sticks it to the other side, without realizing it's all about profit for him and his friends and you are just a serving pawn. I'm still able to appraise any good decisions that he makes, you can't see anything good about the other side.


I wish you a speedy recovery. I've given up on hoping that a better person might emerge out of your situation though.
...

Some people have a come to Jesus thing and try to become better persons after they face disease/death. Obviously that is not the case here.
Pages: 1 ... 61 62 [63] 64 65 ... 72   Go Up