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Author Topic: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development  (Read 4368 times)

BJL

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2020, 10:21:37 am »

I agree with shadowblade: the one “revolution” I’m waiting on is an electronic global shutter that does not sacrifice a stop or so of dynamic range, which is the drawback of current versions.

The most promising idea I know of is a layer in front of the sensor that can be very rapidly, electrically switched between opaque and transparent. IIRC, Panasonic has talked about working on that.

Then the flapping shutter could follow the flipping mirror into retirement. Maybe keep a basic slow “sensor curtain” as a cover to protect the sensor when the camera is idle and when changing lenses.
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Rado

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2020, 11:16:48 am »

I would happily sacrifice a stop or two of dynamic range for unlimited flash sync speed.
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2020, 06:16:50 am »

OK , boys
on yer marks, rumour mill in overdrive

" As rumored before, Canon EOS R3/R5S camera to be announced later this year. The high-megapixel full frame mirrorless camera will be the replacement of EOS 5DS/5DS R. The release date for EOS R3/R5S is expected in late 2020. The rumors suggests that the EOS R3/R5S will feature with a 150MP full frame sensor "

Rumored Canon cameras to be announced in 2020

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2020, 06:13:29 pm »

OK , boys
on yer marks, rumour mill in overdrive

" As rumored before, Canon EOS R3/R5S camera to be announced later this year. The high-megapixel full frame mirrorless camera will be the replacement of EOS 5DS/5DS R. The release date for EOS R3/R5S is expected in late 2020. The rumors suggests that the EOS R3/R5S will feature with a 150MP full frame sensor "

Rumored Canon cameras to be announced in 2020



Considering that even Sony is having a hard time with 60mp I find that very unlikely.

Besides it won’t happen because:
- nobody would upgrade to the next model
- it would reveal that even the excellent RF lenses have limited resolution

This is the same old marketing tactics orchestrated by Canon to make us believe in an amazingly bright future. The R5 was going to be 75 mp, the 5Ds was going to be 100mp...  ;D

I wonder why they still bother.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 06:24:27 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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chez

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2020, 07:37:56 pm »


I wonder why they still bother.

Cheers,
Bernard

Because it still works. Canon is number 1 in sales of cameras and lenses.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2020, 08:24:14 pm »

Because it still works. Canon is number 1 in sales of cameras and lenses.

Yes but my point is that the small % of camera buyers roaming the rumor sites actually likely to buy 3,000+ US$ cameras are mostly not believing such crazy rumors anymore. So what’s the point in spreading them?

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2020, 10:06:04 pm »

Yes but my point is that the small % of camera buyers roaming the rumor sites actually likely to buy 3,000+ US$ cameras are mostly not believing such crazy rumors anymore. So what’s the point in spreading them?

Cheers,
Bernard

Really? Seems like Canon sells plenty of these cameras. Who knows what makes people buy the cameras...all I know is there is a buzz regarding the rumored high end Canon camera. If that’s the case, mission accomplished for Canon’s marketing.
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shadowblade

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2020, 02:32:21 am »

This could well be accurate - from a certain point of view. It all depends how you count pixels.

A 36MP pixel has around 36 million photosites, each one reading a single R, G or B value. But a single value doesn't give you a pixel in the final image. For this, you need information from at least 3 photosites, and the classic Bayer array uses information from 4 photosites (RGBG) because it fits nicely into a square array and because human eyes are more sensitive to green wavelengths. So, a 36MP sensor has 18 million  green, 9 million red and 9 million blue photosites. But how do you get 36 million distinc pixels out of that, if each pixel requires data from four photosites? Simple - each photosite actually belongs to four different Bayer arrays (or 9, or 16, depending on the exact interpolation being used) and you have 36 million 2x2 Bayer arrays on the sensor, which overlap each other. This is the 'traditional' way to count pixels.

But it's not the only possible way. Monochrome sensors are simple - one photosite equals one pixel. Sigma's Foveon sensors count pixels differently, counting each layer of each pixel once, thus giving a 45MP pixel count (15 million each of R/G/B) even if the final image resolution is 15MP.

There are other ways to reach a nominal 150MP resolution without actually producing a final 150MP image. For instance, Canon is known to have been working on their DR problem. Are they using a more complex interpolation array to combine photosites of different sensitivity to produce a higher DR final image? For instance, 75 million photosites at ISO 100 and another 75 million at ISO 800, or 50 million each at 25/200/1600. 150 million nominal sensor-pixels, interpolated to produce a final 75 or 50 million image-pixels. (Despite its dual pixel AF, and the future potential to use a quad pixel setup, turning every pixel into a cross-type AF sensor, Canon has never counted each half of a dual-pixel pixel as a separate pixel in the final pixel count.)

In any case, even if you had a 150MP full-frame sensor, there are probably better ways to use all those photosites than simply increasing the raw spatial resolution of a standard Bayer array. You can capture an image at multiple ISOs, increasing dynamic range. You can use colour arrays containing more than just RGB, increasing colour accuracy and providing a way to distinguish, say, pure green light from a light that's actually a mixture of yellow and blue, although that would mostly be of technical/scientific interest. You can have pixels set at different polarisations - again, mostly of technical interest, although potentially useful for waterfall photography. You could even use a setup similar to the defunct Lytro Light Field camera, allowing post-exposure manipulation of the focal plane (or planes), which would be immensely useful in photography. Lytro was certainly ahead of its time in the days of 10MP sensors, since the final image would have been far too low resolution and noisy, but, with 150MP sensors available, one could end up with a very useful 36MP-or-so final image, which you could then refocus as needed in post-processing - think landscapes at 400mm with foreground and background details all in perfect focus, or group portraits with every subject in perfect focus, but the background and other distracting elements all blurred to oblivion, as if the lens were wide open. Canon certainly has the ability to manufacture such a high-resolution sensor - they demonstrated a 120MP APS-H sensor years ago. A full frame sensor with 150 million photosites (or, rather, 300 million, if each sensor pixel actually contains two photosites in a dual pixel setup) isn't out of the question. But there are better ways to use all those photosites than simply producing gigabyte-sized files (post RAW conversion) and capturing mushy detail through lenses that can't actually resolve 150MP.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2020, 04:51:32 am »

We can fantasize as much as we want, but based on the track record of Canon these past 12 years vs Sony,  I keep my hopes in check.

They are a tiny sensor manufacturer and size is pretty much everything when developping semi-conductor technology.

Cheers,
Bernard

Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2020, 06:52:26 am »

I wonder why they still bother.


I, like Bernard, took the post with a healthy grain of salt.

On reflection though there is more at play here. Of greater interest is the roadmap of (Canon) lenses in development and due to be released this year followed by the new, dare I say hopefully, pro-bodies that should accompany them.

Canon are signalling their entry into the pro mirrorless field. It's a 'blitzkrieg'.  Of the three players: Nikon , Canon, Sony (i'm omitting Leica w/ the SL2 though I view their position very much as a major player in this field) none have an insurmountable advantage over the others. There are pros and cons all round.

What is undeniable is that Canon are deploying a new standard of L glass, in a price range that, until a few months ago, was the exclusive domain of Leica. Roger Cicala is posting that they exhibit a true advance in construction and engineering. Nikon (less tested, less choice) are improved but, at first impressions, not the same level (inferred from Roger's posts). Sony are what they are. IMO, a distinct 3rd.

Moral of the story here: anyone thinking of cross or upgrading, would be well advised to sit back and watch what comes down the pipeline this year. None of the companies, seeking the #1 spot can afford to be complacent.

Think of an 800m athletics final: coming off the last bend and heading into the final straight (2020). I doubt that there'll be a photo finish.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2020, 08:41:29 am by Manoli »
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2020, 08:42:05 am »

I wonder why they still bother.

Alternatively, perhaps 'cos they enjoy getting up the nostrils of Phase One and their dealers ... [/cue-silly-yellow-face]
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kers

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2020, 10:49:00 am »

...
What is undeniable is that Canon are deploying a new standard of L glass, in a price range that, until a few months ago, was the exclusive domain of Leica. Roger Cicala is posting that they exhibit a true advance in construction and engineering. Nikon (less tested, less choice) are improved but, at first impressions, not the same level (inferred from Roger's posts). Sony are what they are. IMO, a distinct 3rd....

LensRentals has frequently liked the canon built of the lens better than F-Nikons, however the S-line of Nikon is at about the same level as Canons R-glass
Roger Cicala's conclusion after tearing down the new S 24-70 f2.8 ;
Quote
As you can probably tell from our struggles doing this disassembly, the Nikon Z lenses are very different than their legacy lenses. They’re also different than what we’ve seen from other manufacturers. That suggests Nikon Z lenses, like Canon R lenses, are a completely new optomechanical design, probably done entirely in-house.

The engineering itself is incredible in most ways. The neatly laid out and solidly adhered flexes reflect the careful design. The taping of every possible point that Loctite or anything else could get in the lens does, too. The design is logical and clean; the difficulties in the tear-down were ours. Now that we know our way around, disassembly won’t be bad at all.

When it comes to optical excellence Sigma ART, Nikon, Sony, Fuji and Canon do very nice things that all rival Leica.
Nikon 0.95 lens, nikons 1.8 S lenses are very good to excellent and affordable and the S 24-70 f2.8 lens is best in class. In the passed years  they also have introduced two excellent lightweight fresnel tele's that have no competition.
Sigma has made large but truly excellent optics, not to forget the GFX lenses that are excellent and relatively inexpensive.
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2020, 08:47:00 am »

Didn't take long ...
" Nikon is rumored to introduce more fast f/1.2 Z mirrorless prime lenses "

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KLaban

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2020, 09:23:02 am »

Didn't take long ...
" Nikon is rumored to introduce more fast f/1.2 Z mirrorless prime lenses "



Hi, I see nothing new, have you a source page link, please?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 09:46:04 am by KLaban »
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BJL

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2020, 09:46:16 am »

Hi, have you a source page, please?
My advanced internet skills suggest searching for “Nikon rumors”
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2020, 10:07:12 am »

Hi, I see nothing new, have you a source page link, please?

Sorry Keith, it came up on my RSS feed, but I suspect BJL is correct (the first stop for rumours, as is CanonRumours for Canon).  I don't see any details , early pre-advice, teasers, same old marketing/advertising tactics - but the screen shot does look genuine Nikon.


Edit:
(the first stop for rumours ...)

I was referring to Nikon Rumours, not BJL
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 10:10:39 am by Manoli »
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KLaban

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2020, 10:27:15 am »

Thanks, BJL and Manoli. Nikon Rumors it was.

Nikon Rumors

Still none the wiser. Time will tell.
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2020, 05:01:41 am »

more specs being drip fed... from a rumour site.

also sighting of an R5 from a UK dealer/vendor and a Canon rep in a youtube clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p67uB8kM_Fk
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 05:24:16 am by Manoli »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2020, 06:29:24 am »

more specs being drip fed... from a rumour site.

If I am not wrong the only thing that’s new is the mention of an October availability?

The corona is mentionned as the reason but I wouldn’t be surprised if the 1DxIII freezing after 5 frames had caused a huge questionning inside Canon causing a deep reengineering of their QA processes.

Cheers,
Bernard

Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2020, 08:27:48 am »

If I am not wrong the only thing that’s new is the mention of an October availability?

plus a few more details to fill in the blanks on BJL's checklist..

The corona is mentionned as the reason but I wouldn’t be surprised if the 1DxIII freezing after 5 frames had caused a huge questionning inside Canon causing a deep reengineering of their QA processes.

Bernard, we all know that hell will freeze over before you'll ever be seen with a Canon in hand ...  ;D ;D ;D
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