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Author Topic: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development  (Read 4367 times)

Manoli

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Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« on: February 06, 2020, 07:45:01 pm »

Several sites reporting possible early (mid-Feb) release of a pro-grade EOS-R:

No Film School
Andrew Reid EOSHD

Quote
If it is a 10bit Canon 1D C RAW doesn't matter.
The 1D C had a talent for nailing the Hollywood look in any light.
Bullet proof white balance.
Cinematic colour science with silky warm tones and dramatic cool tones in one shot when asked of it. No wierdness.
It takes years of experience, not to mention talent to grade like this but 1D C did it in-cam in real-time.
And this was in 8bit!
Imagine how good it's going to look in 10bit.

Canon EOS R5 Specifications:
Quote
Named the Canon EOS R5
45mp full-frame CMOS sensor
IBIS with 5 stops stabilisation, up to 7-8 stops with optical (O.I.S) lens based stabilisation working in tandem
12fps mechanical, 20fps electronic
Scroll wheel added to the back (HURRAH!)
No touch bar (HURRAH!)
Liveview/Movie toggle like previous EOS DSLRs (HURRAH!)
Larger capacity battery, but looks like the LP-E6
8K @ 30fps
4K @ 120fps
4K @ 60fps
Built-in 5GHz WiFi
Announcement ahead of CP+ next month (Feb 13th)
Launching in July 2020 (I’m assuming this means ship date)
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BJL

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2020, 08:02:34 pm »

When I dig down through the related articles, all I can find confirmed by Canon about 8K in an R camera is this quote:
Quote
Video will play a huge role in the EOS R System for sure. For example, an 8K video capable camera is already in our EOS R-series roadmap.
from Canon official Yoshiyuki Mizoguchi, quoted at https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/01/08/wheres-canon-going-with-the-eos-r-do-they-have-a-plan

But note the date: January 2019; 13 months ago. So it is coming, but "coming soon" is still only a rumor, not confirmed by Canon.


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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2020, 08:27:28 pm »

...  "coming soon" is still only a rumor, not confirmed by Canon.

Absolutely, a point made in both the linked posts above in the very first line. Multiple indicators point to a higher-than-usual credibilty factor. An announcement possibly this month and launch July later this year.

Plenty of <if's> still.

Quote
... far fetched though a body like this seems in light of Canons woeful performance in the last decade, it’s exactly the spec they need to get people excited for the future of Canon again and for people to buy into a new system.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 08:33:17 pm by Manoli »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2020, 08:43:59 pm »

I say... we will see.

Canon abused in the past the leaking of rumors with dream specs ahead of announcements from competitors to keep their user base waiting.

They did this for 1.5~2 years before the release of the 5Ds.

So what I get from this rumor mostly is that Sony is about to announce a 8K camera...  ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 12:39:49 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2020, 12:25:08 am »

It all sound amazing.

Remember that Canon thing about the 100MP camera that was about to be released? That was what, three years ago? Where is that thing? This might be real and it might be Canon trying to stop the flood of people leaving the system. They have launched some incredible lenses recently but the mirrorless bodies not so much.

Thing is with Canon resources you just never know. Mark me down as skeptical but hopeful.
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2020, 09:18:31 am »

I bet a lot of people that get excited fo 8k have never tried to edit large amounts of it.  All I see is more hard drives and larger storage arrays filling my studio...
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kers

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2020, 10:51:42 am »

everything is coming, but when?

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BJL

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2020, 06:46:52 pm »

I say... we will see.

Canon abused in the past the leaking of rumors with dream specs ahead of announcements from competitors to keep their user base waiting.

They did this for 1.5~2 years before the release of the 5Ds.

So what I get from this rumor mostly is that Sony is about to announce a 8K camera...  ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
To be fair to Canon, all we know it said was something totally vague and obvious (accepting 8K as an inevitable trend).

It is more like fans and rumor sites putting together 2 and 2 and coming up with 22—the most optimistic interpretation but not necessarily the most likely.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2020, 12:24:55 am »

To be fair to Canon, all we know it said was something totally vague and obvious (accepting 8K as an inevitable trend).

It is more like fans and rumor sites putting together 2 and 2 and coming up with 22—the most optimistic interpretation but not necessarily the most likely.

Maybe. In the past it sure looked like an orchestrated campaign.

The timing of the release of such rumors was perfectly aligned with the announcement of competitors products from Nikon and Sony.

Besides I have met in Japan people close to Canon who were conveying exactly the same messages...

Cheers,
Bernard
 

phila

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2020, 03:16:35 am »

Basic announcement is now offical.

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-development-of-the-eos-r5-next-generation-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-and-new-rf-series-lenses/

Obviously many, many important details to come...

I wonder if 40-45MP will prove to be the "sweet spot" for landscape work between a really high MP sensor (still rumoured to be coming) with the inherent fine detail available as opposed to a lower resolution sensor with less detail but greater depth of focus/field inherent with the larger pixel dimensions? Thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 03:22:29 am by phila »
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2020, 04:43:10 am »

So what I get from this rumor mostly is that Sony is about to announce a 8K camera...

Me thinks 'tis the other way round, Bernard.
Word is that Sony delayed the latest 'S' pending the incoming Canon.
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2020, 04:45:45 am »

It is more like fans and rumor sites putting together 2 and 2 and coming up with 22—the most optimistic interpretation but not necessarily the most likely.

Sometimes it pays to separate the wheat from the chaff.
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2020, 04:47:34 am »

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kers

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2020, 04:54:45 am »

Canon teaser R5:
https://youtu.be/qY_G9lW07uo
Impressive teaser ... not
But i understand they have changed the buttons on the back ...
I don't read anything about dynamic range... for me a very important factor.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2020, 05:57:05 pm »

Me thinks 'tis the other way round, Bernard.
Word is that Sony delayed the latest 'S' pending the incoming Canon.

We will see. For now there is no date associated to the R5, is there?

But it certainly looks good. If the AF is up to notch then Canon will have a very tempting system for the first time since the 1Ds days in my view.

8K video is to a large extend marketing in my view, but may help get better 4K.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 06:01:44 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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BJL

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2020, 06:26:17 pm »

Canon has typically been one to announce new products only soon before release, which is the strategy of a dominant player: earlier announcements largely undermine sales of the company's own existing products. This mixture of a development announcement with just a few highlight specs — along with talk of "many lenses coming soon", is instead in the style of a less dominant or even trailing player; one that want to persuade potential customers to wait a while longer, rather than buying into a competing system now (or in the cynical worst case, "jumping ship").  I'm not into the nonsense that Canon and Nikon are stuck three generations behind Sony in mirrorless technology (and if so, then five or six generations behind Panasonic and Olympus?!), because both have clearly been developing mirrorless-related technologies for some time — but there is some air of "wait, look at us, we're catching up!" with pre-announcement highlights like:
- IBIS! (Finally! And after talking about in-lens IS being superior or sufficient till recently.)
- Frame rates above 8FPS! — for the first time in its 35mm format mirrorless system.
- Dual card slots!
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BJL

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2020, 06:38:24 pm »

8K video is to a large extend marketing in my view, but may help get better 4K.
One of the best arguments I have heard for 8K video is that this is 8K Bayer CFA, which then down-converts cleanly to "4K X3"; all three colors at each location.

The other persuasive argument I have heard is that:
(a) there is some visual advantage in going a bit beyond 4K, even if one achieves "perfection" by about 6K under any sane, comfortable video viewing conditions, but
(b) backward compatibility for broadcasting and compression works best with a doubling of linear resolution, so 8K is preferred to 5K or 6K; just compress the higher spatial frequencies more vigorously to keep the bandwidth under control.
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2020, 08:26:43 pm »

We will see. For now there is no date associated to the R5, is there?

None, but tbe consensus was an announcement mid-February, which came to pass and 'availability' July-ish - which in my book reads as July-ish but delivery, in all likelihood, September plus. [/amused-yellow-face]
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Manoli

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2020, 08:33:07 pm »

@BJL

I don't follow the tech side the way you and Bernard do, but there was little doubt in my mind when both Nikon and Canon entered the 'MILC' market, Canon had a different strategy to Nikon. Canon knew, or at least guessed correctly that the tech/demand wasn't yet ready to supersede their pro-grade 1Dxx DSLR's. They had a huge installed base of users heavily invested in their EF glass so they went lenses first, body second. The 'R' wasn't to compete with the Z7 or the high end Sony's but rather an affordable prosumer category box that most pros would easily add as a backup to their main cams, serve as a taster for new tech and attract a large number of their existing amateur installed base - though I'm confident that the last one fell well short of their hopes.

Development of the EF glass was at an end; the RF mount was the future. They said so, clearly. Their introductory lens choices, IMO, echoed that. There were no (apart fm a 35mm) run-of-the-mill lenses. Two exceptional f/1.2 s and zooms, one an 28-70, f/2 - glass designed to excel, pique the interest, burn a distinct hole in one's wallet but above all to serve notice that Canon were entering a new paradigm.

From a totally biased personal perspective, today, I'm looking at the lenses, their IQ and the build quality - the 85/1.2L in particular. Roger Cicala's (LensRentals) teardown and reviews tell me that the RF 's are good, very good.  What's left is the body to mount them on - and so far we've had the first of an expected total of four new bodies due this year ('announcement', I doubt delivery).

I'd  hoped for a 1D quality pro-build. From the teaser I see, what I'm guessing, is a new-generation 5D series. I doubt I'll be spending upwards of $10,000 on glass to mount on a prosumer body, other than as a backup.

IMO, the race is still wide open. Sony have market share, good bodies, a clever pricing strategy in that their older models are rolled over, reduced in price and serve as an encouragement to 'follow the line'. The issue with Sony is that despite universal praise as to the IQ of their lenses, I just don't like them. So much so, that the only native lenses I use are two Batis - an 85 and a 40 , [plus a Zeiss/Sony 55 ZA f/1.8]. On the plus side, Sigma et al will be manufacturing ART grade E-mount glass in the future.

Nikon are out of the starting gate, no more, no less. Canon likewise, but this year will be telling - I'm expecting stellar lenses in both IQ and build. If they can produce a pro-grade EOS-Rx to mount them on, that may be enough to encourage me to switch.

As it stands, my interest is piqued, but thoughts of a Leica SL2 continue to plague me.




Canon has typically been one to announce new products only soon before release, which is the strategy of a dominant player: earlier announcements largely undermine sales of the company's own existing products. This mixture of a development announcement with just a few highlight specs — along with talk of "many lenses coming soon", is instead in the style of a less dominant or even trailing player; one that want to persuade potential customers to wait a while longer, rather than buying into a competing system now (or in the cynical worst case, "jumping ship"). 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 08:42:22 pm by Manoli »
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BJL

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Re: Canon Confirms 8K EOS R Camera in Development
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2020, 09:21:49 pm »

@Manoli,
    I hope I did not come across as cynical about Canon; I see Canon and Nikon in a similar position of being late-arriving but big and well-resourced contenders in the ever-more important MILC market; just that it is no longer the stronger member of a virtual duopoly at the top of the SLR market (where I include DSLRs).

A lot of what you say about Canon R applies to Nikon Z also: both companies judged that the high end niche of the D5 and EOS-1D X families is still best served by DSLRs (the D6 and 1D X Mk III being "ultimate" models much as the F6 and EOS-1V were, I expect) and so are working on other parts of the product line; in particular, with mostly very high quality lenses.

Aside: I do not agree with some criticisms that seem based on a doctrine that high quality lenses only go with big, heavy high frame rate, square-bodied "pro sports" models; I have no problem with Canon's and Nikon's initial priorities for mirrorless bodies and lenses. (Except some super-slow zooms like 24-105/4-7.1 R, 100-500/4.5-7.1 R, and 24-200/6.3 Z; those mystify me.)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 09:26:35 pm by BJL »
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