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Author Topic: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max  (Read 1132 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2019, 10:17:24 pm »

...Swimming with the phone is not recommended and submerging it in salty water is definitely a no-no.

I was snorkeling with iPhone X Max in salty water for 30 min. No problems.

SrMi

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2019, 02:17:50 am »

That means waterproof up to 4m for up to 30 mins. I have snorkeled with a 7, a 3 years old design with a much lower level of wateproofness without any issue.

Now I have not checked Apple’s policy on immersion in sea water.

But anyway, this was really a minor point.

Cheers,
Bernard

The fact that you and Slobodan had no problem snorkeling with your iPhones does not mean it should be done.

Apple recommends explicitly against swimming and bathing with the iPhone 7 (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207043).
Apple says that water and other liquid damage to the iPhone isn't covered (https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204104)
Apple says that iPhone Pros are rated for water resistance (not waterproofed) up to 4 meters for up to 30 minutes (https://apple.co/2lPiqYL). For a difference between water-resistant and waterproofed, think of jackets.

Of course, everyone is free to do with their iPhones what they want .. or with their iPads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2gQE0J00UE


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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2019, 02:30:44 am »

Except that that the 8 in IP68 is very specifically defined as the resistance to immersion.

“Immersion, 1 m or more depth   The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer. However, with certain types of equipment, it can mean that water can enter but only in such a manner that it produces no harmful effects. The test depth and duration is expected to be greater than the requirements for IPx7, and other environmental effects may be added, such as temperature cycling before immersion.   Test duration: agreement with manufacturer”

Apple went through the extra trouble of specifying a depth of 4 meters which they didn’t have to and is significantly more stringent than most competing IP68 smartphones only tested at 1.5m depth.

I don’t think that the jacket example is a very good one. Any jacket that would resist immersion for 30 mins, if that existed and meant something, would most definitely be rated as waterproof.

Granted there is no mention of salt water and corrosion may happen with external metal parts even in the absence of water ingestion.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 02:45:13 am by BernardLanguillier »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2019, 10:47:35 am »


I can’t understand why anyone remotely connected to photography would even consider a phone as a replacement for a camera. Let’s for convenience say that it’s my narrow minded thinking  :-[

Regards,
Jaap.

With respect, I submit that it’s you that’s narrow minded.

I just completed a multi-thousand-dollar video project, much of which was shot (sound and picture) with my phone, a Google Pixel 3A XL.  Both the client and I were delighted with its performance.  It enabled a style and quality of production unattainable by other systems.

I’m a (retired) cinematographer and director/cameraman with Hollywood screen credits.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2019, 11:04:05 am »

For me, the operative word is “replacement.” I never thought of that. I use the iPhone “in conjunction” with all my other cameras. And I plan to use the iPhone 11 Pro (with the Filmicsoftware) on the phone to shoot video with two of the iPhone 11 Pro’s lenses recorded simultaneously, one for closer-up and another for wide-angle. I can in post combine both for a two-shot interview effect.

I have had an iPhone for years, but this is the first time I felt I could use it for photo tasks that it can handle. I also feel that this new iPhone marks a sea-change in camera usability that will embrace actual professional photographers.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 12:12:56 pm by Michael Erlewine »
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2019, 11:51:50 am »

... marks a sea-change in camera usability that will embrace actual professional photographers.

Precisely. 

Forum member luxborealis (who lectures in Photography at the college level) recently returned from a trip to Ethiopia where he preferred to use his last generation iPhone for much of his excellent coverage on this once in a lifetime trip.
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chez

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Maxq
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2019, 12:02:18 pm »

I was snorkeling with iPhone X Max in salty water for 30 min. No problems.

It wouldn't be my 1st choice for underwater photography. The ergonomics of trying to focus and take an image underwater would be a total turnoff...at least for me.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Maxq
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2019, 05:26:54 pm »

It wouldn't be my 1st choice for underwater photography. The ergonomics of trying to focus and take an image underwater would be a total turnoff...at least for me.

It isn’t perfect, but I have found that it has one tremendous advantage over the dedicated underwater cameras I have tried, in particular the best in class Olympus TG-5 (the 6 may be better), its screen.

Depending on snorkeling conditions, the screen of the Olympus is at best somewhere btw totally unusable (can’t see anything at all) to very unpleasant to use (can barely see something) while the old iphone 7 was a joy to shoot with perfect visibility under water.

Cheers,
Bernard

bassman51

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2019, 09:25:58 pm »

The traditional digital camera market is running around 20m units a year, down from 120m ten years ago or so.  Apple sold over 200m cameras with integral phones last year, and they have perhaps 15% of the market. So I submit that this ship has sailed. Apple, Samsung and Huawei are the biggest camera makers in the world, and the biggest the world has ever known. 

Last week my daughter (whose Nikon DLSR is gathering dust) posted images of her three girls on their first day of school taken with her iPhone X, using portrait mode, that were both technically and artistically excellent.  Great color, great bokeh with suitably shallow (but not too shallow) DoF. Sharp and crystal clear, at least when viewed as intended, on a screen.  I doubt she did any editing; perhaps she straightened them, but I don’t think even that happened. 

I also posted some pictures of the girls I took over the weekend with my ILC, carefully processed in LR. Also excellent (IMHO).  But definitely no better than hers.

Are there images I can get with my kit that she can’t with her phone?  Sure.
Do I enjoy shooting with my kit more than with a phone? Sure.

But none of that matters. Apple et al are the leading camera makers today.   Canon, Nikon, Sony and the others are rapidly becoming (or already are) niche players in a declining niche. 

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LesPalenik

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2019, 09:30:37 pm »

With respect, I submit that it’s you that’s narrow minded.

I just completed a multi-thousand-dollar video project, much of which was shot (sound and picture) with my phone, a Google Pixel 3A XL.  Both the client and I were delighted with its performance.  It enabled a style and quality of production unattainable by other systems.

I’m a (retired) cinematographer and director/cameraman with Hollywood screen credits.

Peter, how would you compare the latest models of Google Pixel with latest iPhones for still images and video?

BJL

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2019, 12:08:16 am »

A good summary bassman51.

There is a “gamut” of photographic situations where the results of a camera-phone can be indistinguishable on-screen or in prints up to as big as most people ever want from what any “bigger, better” camera gives. But also plenty of interesting photographic opportunities outside that gamut, like any significant degree of telephoto, especially with subject motion to freeze.

I’ll just point out that Kodak was probably the leading camera maker (by unit sales) over a very long run, with cameras like Brownies, Instamatics and disk cameras.  But that numerical dominance left plenty of room for other companies to keep offering ever-improving higher quality gear. So I do not fear for ILCs, and the world of bigger aperture sizes and the bigger sensors needed behind them.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2019, 04:47:21 pm »

Omg, I just realized there is one category or users that is going to send iPhone Pro demand through the roof: real estate agents. They are already using iPhones most of the time, and resort to pros only for ultra-wide angle shots, which make a tiny studio look like a stadium. Imagine how gaga they are going to go over the 13mm lens!

Pavel

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2019, 08:05:40 pm »

Is anybody really going to buy an iPhone 11 because it has a better camera other than as a rationalization?

Yes, I'll be doing just that.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2019, 02:05:11 am »

"Is anybody really going to buy an iPhone 11 because it has a better camera other than as a rationalization?"


The operative question is: A better camera for what?

And YES, I already have.
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SrMi

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Peter McLennan

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2019, 08:00:56 pm »

I hate having to hit a virtual button on the screen to take a photo.

My Samsung cameras (RIP) had voice activated shutter.  Fantastic.
My Google Pixel 3 inexplicably lacks this extraordinarily useful function. 
I may ditch it and change back to Samsung for this reason alone.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2019, 08:13:59 pm »

Peter, how would you compare the latest models of Google Pixel with latest iPhones for still images and video?

I can't compare since I've not used a late model Apple phone camera.  From what little I've seen, there's not a lot of difference between any of the latest phone cameras.

I do find the Google Pixel camera extraordinary, the lack of voice-activated shutter notwithstanding.

The always-in-your-shirt-pocket factor trumps nearly everything else, IMHO.  There's no beating the always-there factor.  Not including, however, specialty shooting aspects like BIF, large print landscapes, focus stacking, camera movements etc. 

I shot some excellent "street" video recently.  Subject matter impossible to shoot with a pro video camera was effortless with my Pixel. Nobody noticed, nobody cared. 
Both video and audio were excellent and, more important, unattainable otherwise.  That's huge.

Canon's predictions are on the money, I think.  P&S cameras are toast.
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Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2019, 02:14:07 am »

I was all ready to write a post being all scathing about the idea of using a phone for anything other than showing off how you could do it and didn’t need any fancy equipment. Then yesterday I picked up a day shoot, video, and was asked specifically to shoot it on a phone, normal day rate. So there you go. What do I know.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2019, 11:22:45 am »

Then yesterday I picked up a day shoot, video, and was asked specifically to shoot it on a phone, normal day rate.

Gotta love it.  I convinced a recent client that in some cases, my phone could do a better job than a big-ass video camera.  She agreed and we were both right.  The results proved it.  The subject matter was elementary school kids and sports.  Unlike the customary "when's this going to be on TV?" attitude from the kids, they simply ignored my phone.  And me.  In other words, perfect.
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