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Author Topic: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max  (Read 6571 times)

chez

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 08:51:47 am »

My iPhone is indeed able to take pictures. For me there ends any relationship to ‘photography’. The iPhone 11 doesn’t change this.

I can’t understand why anyone remotely connected to photography would even consider a phone as a replacement for a camera. Let’s for convenience say that it’s my narrow minded thinking  :-[

Regards,
Jaap.

My exact same thoughts.
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chez

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 08:53:29 am »

Maybe because the level of image quality of an iPhone Pro 11 is close to what APS-C DSLRs were offering 6-7 years ago?

Cheers,
Bernard

But it's not only the end result that counts. The experience of using a phone to take photos is miserable.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 09:09:21 am »

To me, much of these comments are "Whistling in the dark," IMO.

I have a Sony RX100 that is small enough, but I hardly ever choose to take it with me. On the other hand, I have to take my smart phone often, if only for emergency calls when walking, family, etc.

I often see something with my "photographer's" eye when I have no gear with me. I enjoyment of light and shadow works 24x7. This phone (or perhaps the next version) may allow me to capture compositions that strike me and are worth capturing and showing to others. I don't expect the results to best my Otus lenses, but they may be good enough to share with the 7500 folks I blog to each day.  we will see and I will make a point of sharing what I discover here, whether good, bad, or indifferent.
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elliot_n

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2019, 10:03:52 am »


A 52mm f/2.0, 6-element lens, with optical stabilization, 2x optical zoom 12MP sensor.


I'm puzzled by this one — Is it a zoom lens or not? If it's a zoom, is 52mm the wide end? Did the previous iPhone have this lens?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2019, 10:52:51 am »

I'm puzzled by this one — Is it a zoom lens or not? If it's a zoom, is 52mm the wide end? Did the previous iPhone have this lens?

It is not a zoom.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2019, 10:55:55 am »

... I can’t understand why anyone remotely connected to photography would even consider a phone as a replacement for a camera...

Resistance is futile.

Martin Kristiansen

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2019, 11:03:22 am »

It's funny how many talk about camera ergonomics and some people won't use certain cameras because of the ergonomics...yet we seem to feel the phone being ok from an ergonomic view. Not for me. I hate holding the damn thing away from my body and trying to compose a good image. I hate having to touch the screen to focus...causing my carefully composed image to move. I hate having to hit a virtual button on the screen to take a photo. The experience of using a phone to capture anything other than a quick snap is truly painful.

No thanks...much rather bring along my photo equipment and enjoy my photography and results.

Yep. Ergonomics. About as much fun as hand holding a Speed Graphic. Trying to use a phone is what lead me to buying and carrying a Sony point and shoot. Also not great but way better then a phone. Like trying to take a photo with a bar of soap.
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SrMi

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2019, 11:49:21 am »

I also find the iPhone a cumbersome tool that will never replace my camera. But the best camera is the one that I have with me. I would not refrain from using iPhone as a photographic tool just because it is an iPhone.

Furthermore, the iPhone creates a different set of challenges, which are interesting and may lead me to make photographs that I would not make with a 'real' camera.

I have seen some top photographers taking amazing pictures with their iPhones,. They see the iPhone as a challenge, not a degradation of their craft.

For some nice work, see winners of 2019 iPhone Photography Awards:https://www.ippawards.com/


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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2019, 11:52:17 am »

Resistance is futile.

Just admit that we, photographers, are a dying breed. Once you admit it, the road to recovery is quicker.

Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2019, 12:05:00 pm »


I have seen some top photographers taking amazing pictures with their iPhones,. They see the iPhone as a challenge, not a degradation of their craft.


My sentiments exactly. Never occurred to me not to accept it as a challenge. Never looked down on it, other than for what it was.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:08:36 pm by Michael Erlewine »
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hogloff

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2019, 12:21:58 pm »

I also find the iPhone a cumbersome tool that will never replace my camera. But the best camera is the one that I have with me. I would not refrain from using iPhone as a photographic tool just because it is an iPhone.

Furthermore, the iPhone creates a different set of challenges, which are interesting and may lead me to make photographs that I would not make with a 'real' camera.

I have seen some top photographers taking amazing pictures with their iPhones,. They see the iPhone as a challenge, not a degradation of their craft.

For some nice work, see winners of 2019 iPhone Photography Awards:https://www.ippawards.com/

Traveled to Vietnam...took my camera kit.
Traveled to Morocco...took my camera kit.
Traveled to India...took my camera kit.
Traveled to Tanzania...took my camera kit.

Went out for dinner with my wife...took my phone.

If I know I'm going to be taking photos...I always grab my camera. If I'm just out and about, I always have my phone. The two will never cross.
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John Camp

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2019, 12:28:59 pm »

For those who may be tempted by this phone, I saw in some credible media outlet in the past few days a warning that Apple may be planning an incredible (but probably expensive) upgrade in 2020, and the buyers of the 11 may regret their purchase.

I personally shoot photos and videos with my iPhone all the time. They're crappy, but they're photographs -- spectacular sunsets (I live in the desert west), dog chasing balls, snapshots of my garden in full bloom, and, many times, food products in grocery stores which I send to my wife to see if that's what she was telling me to get. I view them at the same place I shoot them, on my phone.

Some pro photographers may make great photos with their iPhones, but it's not because of the camera, but despite it. There's little point to it other than to show what you can do with a tiny camera, that you could have done way better with a better camera.

People have talked forever about the problems of pixels that are too small -- that you really don't want a 50mp m4/3 because you lose to much in other qualities what you gain in resolution. Is that not operative with cell phones, whose chips are smaller than my little fingernail?

High quality photography isn't going away, it's simply shrinking back to what it was in the 60s before "Blow Up," which told a lot of nerds that they could photograph naked models complete with pubic hair. I remember those days, before "Blow Up," and quality cameras -- Leicas and such -- were quite rare. The camera companies will only go broke if they try to keep staffing and research and general scale as it was when digital first broke, when they were selling an upgraded new camera every year. They have to shrink, and go back to elongated research and development; remember when F-series cameras from Nikon were refreshed every six or seven years? Like that.

I personally have three levels of serious cameras. An RX100, a complete two body GX8 m4/3 system, and a D800/Z6 which share lenses until the other Z lenses appear. I'm pretty sure I'll keep an RX100 equivalent for the rest of my life, because they can take serious photos; I'll have a bigger camera of some kind, although probably not two different sets; and I'll have a cell phone, which I'll use for spontaneous dog photos and grocery items. Cell phones can take useful photos, it's just that in absolute photographic terms, they're crappy.

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elliot_n

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2019, 12:33:58 pm »

It is not a zoom.

I see. So when they say '2x optical zoom', they just mean that it is a prime with double the focal length of the 'Wide' lens?

I wish the two-lens iPhone 11 included this standard lens rather than the 13mm Ultrawide.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 12:40:19 pm by elliot_n »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2019, 12:59:09 pm »

I see. So when they say '2x optical zoom', they just mean that it is a prime with double the focal length of the 'Wide' lens?...

Correct.

TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2019, 01:30:21 pm »

Another area that hasn't come up much in this post... I know an in-house photographer for an organization that hires me regularly for shoots.  Often they send us both out together on documentary shoots (yeah something different than my usual...)  I am shooting the heavy lifting images and b-roll video... while they are shooting with an iphone rig.  Their work goes straight to social media in real time virtually.  I've shot tethered to a router and laptop linked straight via my cellphone to dropbox for clients to have actual images in real time.  It's cumbersome and needs a backpack.  I know several photographers that are shooting gigs that bring an iphone because the image is more than plenty for social and web use.  And they are able to send images out immediately.  The editing is built into the phone, they can tag, caption, GPS coordinates, upload, etc... all from the SAME DEVICE.  It's a whole different game if time is of the essence. 

A lot of us have different end goals with out photography, so a phone has never seemed like the proper tool.  (yes...I really resonate with the ergonomics bit of that...)  However, if any "real" camera could process, data infuse, and push out imagery to the world with the sheer speed and efficiency of a phone, we would be living in another world.  I'de replace all my cameras today if they released replacements with these features built in.  My cameras have wifi and can do these tasks when connected to my phone... in a rough or basic way... but the experience and ease is not the same at all. 

The phone is more than capable as a point and shoot camera...but its connectivity makes it far more powerful as a tool.
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BJL

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2019, 01:48:34 pm »

@John Camp, I agree with much you say; perhaps optimistically, the downward sales trends I see are very consistent to a post-transition settling down to ILC body and lens sales still higher than they ever were with film — helped by there being far more people in developing countries who can afford them.

But on iPhone 12 rumors, here’s my favorite quote of the week from another forum:

“Unannounced future products are always awesome”
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2019, 12:44:35 pm »

Maybe because the level of image quality of an iPhone Pro 11 is close to what APS-C DSLRs were offering 6-7 years ago?

Cheers,
Bernard
Phone cameras are really quite good these days.  Here's a shot from a Google Pixel phone (first generation) that my wife captured (sorry for my copyright watermark) on a trip earlier this year.  I've printed it at 11x17 so it can hang in our house.  Color and details are quite good right out of the box.  The new Pixel camera is coming out shortly and it will be interesting to see how that phone stacks up with the new iPhone.  Most young people care about posting pictures quickly on social media and you cannot beat a camera phone in that regard.  If they don't care about printing images the phone camera is likely the only one they will ever need.

Alan
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2019, 06:14:16 pm »

Exactly Alan! Image quality is getting very reasonable and is progressing much faster thks to investments probably 10 to 100 times higher than the combined effort of all camera manufacturers combined.

With one essential key word: computational photography!

Plus, let’s be realistic here, the auto WB alone is much better on phones than on most DSLRs. And pleasing colors are more important to most casual photographers than noise free images and superb details.

This and the connectivity advantage + ability to edit on the fly + the native cloud back up + the waterproofness (the iphone pro 11 is probably the best underwater camera on the market as we speak simply because its screen enables you to see soo much better than that of an Olympus TG-5),...

Convenience trumps ergonomics... and in fact even ergonomics is up for discussion when you think about the full experience beyond image capture itself. The screens of phones for example are so much better that image review on the back of a cheap APS-C DSLR becomes a clearly unpleasant experience that can give the impression that the image quality is much lower on the camera.

Touch interface is much smoother,...

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 06:17:51 pm by BernardLanguillier »
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SrMi

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2019, 07:00:42 pm »


<snip>

This and the connectivity advantage + ability to edit on the fly + the native cloud back up + the waterproofness (the iphone pro 11 is probably the best underwater camera on the market as we speak simply because its screen enables you to see soo much better than that of an Olympus TG-5),...

<snip>

iPhone 11 Pro is rated IP68. That is not good enough for an underwater camera. It's a water-resistant, not waterproof phone. Swimming with the phone is not recommended and submerging it in salty water is definitely a no-no.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2019, 10:04:42 pm »

iPhone 11 Pro is rated IP68. That is not good enough for an underwater camera. It's a water-resistant, not waterproof phone. Swimming with the phone is not recommended and submerging it in salty water is definitely a no-no.

That means waterproof up to 4m for up to 30 mins. I have snorkeled with a 7, a 3 years old design with a much lower level of wateproofness without any issue.

Now I have not checked Apple’s policy on immersion in sea water.

But anyway, this was really a minor point.

Cheers,
Bernard
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