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Author Topic: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max  (Read 6573 times)

Michael Erlewine

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Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« on: September 11, 2019, 12:20:35 pm »

Just a note. My gut is that the new iPhone 11 Pro/Pro Max is a pivot point, especially with the forthcoming “Deep Fusion” mode which combines a series of shots (like stacking) to make a highly detailed shot. The iPhone 11 can also produce DNGs.

The camera now has three cameras:

An ultra-wide 13mm f/2.4 5-element lens with 120-degrees field of view and a 12MP sensor.

A 26mm f/1.8 wide, 6-elements, 12 MP sensor with optical stabilization camera.

A 52mm f/2.0, 6-element lens, with optical stabilization, 2x optical zoom 12MP sensor.

It also works with a fascinating piece of software for video called Filmic, which allows you to use some of the multiple cameras in the iPhone 11. In addition, the iPhone 11 Pro/Pro Max has 512 GB and up to 5 hours more battery time than before.

My best guess is that this event is a toehold on the future and the flag or sign that a beefed-up iPhone can finally handle low to medium photographic tasks, if not right now, then soon.

When you consider you can get DNGs from this camera, Night Mode, and a small host of other features, we have, IMO, crossed a point of no-return. If this is not the next page, then at least the iPhone 11 sends a signal that change indeed is coming.

The thought of carrying an iPhone, a gimbal, and a few other accessories instead of all the gear I now carry is worth thinking about. No, not for landscapes and the kind of close-up I like, but to be able to carry around a camera in my shirt pocket to address all of the times I wish I had a camera with me is tempting. I am getting one and selling a bunch of lenses.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 01:04:06 pm by Michael Erlewine »
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TonyVentourisPhotography

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 03:01:11 pm »

The phones, when used intentionally can produce pretty amazing results.  I still find 1" sensors to be about the smallest sensor I prefer for anything serious...but the phone fills out a lot of tasks.  However, in a pinch, their photo and video features have completely overtaken smaller cameras for me.  12mp is fine.  I often find myself going out with just the phone more often now.  Filmic is a great app too.  Gives great control for video.  There are several photo apps that are really much better too.  I actually really love the fact the the phones now had a 50mm eq lens.  When I heard they were going to add a third lens I was really hoping we would go further telephoto.  That way we'd have 28, 50, 90 for instance.  13 is kind of crazy.  But hey! 
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rdonson

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 04:02:06 pm »

I can create DNGs on my iPhone XR.  Its 12 MP camera does an amazing job but.... I've only ditched by old Canon pocket point & shoot as a result  The video it takes is pretty good as well. 

BTW, on my XR the app "NeuralCam" is what I use for "Night Mode".  The app "Moment" provides all the controls you'd want from a digital sensor camera.

Obviously the XR doesn't have 3 lenses and all of its speed like the 11Pro/Pro Max but it costs a heck of a lot less.

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Ron

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 05:12:02 pm »

Very true, even if the LL crowd isn’t the population whose photo equipment purchasing habits will be most impacted.

The target is the millions still buying cheap APS-C DSLRscameras for “family pictures”, more so that 1 inch super compacts IMHO.

The 1 inch sensor compacts are bought by FF/MF owners as a complement while cheap APS-C DSLR cameras are bought by people who know nothing about photography and just want to take “better” snaps of their relatives and of the places they visit. And they are mostly going to get a phone instead.

Canon (and to a lesser extent Nikon - who sells a mix more pulled towards higher end bodies) will be hit incredibly hard by this.

Sony will fare better because the capabilities of their a6000 series are closer to the iPhone capabilities in terms of just taking that work in idiot mode (thanks to the AF).

Cheers,
Bernard


faberryman

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2019, 05:20:15 pm »

The target is the millions still buying cheap APS-C DSLRscameras for “family pictures”, more so that 1 inch super compacts IMHO.
Is anybody really going to buy an iPhone 11 because it has a better camera other than as a rationalization?
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2019, 05:46:50 pm »

To me, that is not the point. I suggest we are transitioning as to what we use photography for. I can’t or don’t want to haul a lot of equipment around. I just came back from a 1600-mile trip, carrying a bunch of lenses for the Z7, and a Sony FS-5 video system for video, plus two separate tripods, heads, cables, and on and on.

That’s a job. I would also like to have an upscale smart phone like the iPhone 11 Pro with perhaps a gimbal, a monopod, and perhaps a tiny tripod when I want something simpler, or just take an iPhone out when I walk or whatever. I am liking the idea of making small videos, as well.
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PatCastaldo

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2019, 06:26:42 pm »

I find I'm getting "lazy" a lot more lately and that the current iPhone is often good enough vs. even just bringing my Fuji X-E3 and a few lenses (a camera I really love to shoot with).

The new one is totally on my "will get right away" list because it does seem that much better. I think as soon as these 3-camera systems work their way down to regular iPhones and not just the fanciest iPhones, there won't be much of a P&S market left.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2019, 07:07:00 pm »

Is anybody really going to buy an iPhone 11 because it has a better camera other than as a rationalization?

I most likely will, simply because it would costs me nothing extra to do so. I will trade in my X Max, which was the same price.

Plus, it has a really cool (actually, hot) new functionality:

John Hollenberg

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2019, 07:18:04 pm »

I gave up on using my Samsung Galaxy S7 because I have a very small pocket camera that runs rings around it--the Sony RX1004.  A few weeks ago I hiked 50 miles total over 5 days of day hiking with that camera in my pants pocket the whole time.  I would make a quick stop, take a few photos and get back to hiking.  My favorite photo of the trip was taken with that camera (also had Sony A7r2 with 24-70 lens in my pack, but only took it out if I was highly motivated).  Made a tack sharp black and white print that is about 14X18.  Best way to go light.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 07:21:16 pm »

I’ve been photographing since 1956 and have had just above every Nikon digital camera since the CoolPix and the Nikon D1 DSRL and on up to the Nikon Z7. I have scores of lenses and have been very serious about close-up macro and focus stacking.

So, I don’t say this glibly, that for me this is a transitional moment for me, getting the iPhone 11 Pro for some fairly serious work. I still have all my cameras, technical cameras, bellows, and lenses, although I will sell some lenses. I will use all the digital cameras in my studio and especially in winter here in Michigan.

However, I am going to look into what it feels like to have a reasonably capable camera I can place in my pocket. And I have ordered all the accessories already: gimbal, apps, tripod heads, and so on.

Just like flowers ripen, one at a time. This new iPhone 11 Pro is enough for me to give it a serious try. And, I want to make short videos, as well.

I am studying the Filmic Pro and "Moment" apps and although I have a small Sony RX digital camera (as well), the combined components of the iPhone 11 Pro Max has pushed me over the edge. You may differ.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 07:43:18 pm »

Is anybody really going to buy an iPhone 11 because it has a better camera other than as a rationalization?

Apple seems to be thinking they will, and they are often right.

But that's beside the point. The point is that many of the millions who will buy an iPhone 11 Pro will overlap with those millions who would have been candidate to buy APS-C DSLRs. Young professionals, probably with young kids... not to mention China and India.

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2019, 07:48:35 pm »

It's funny how many talk about camera ergonomics and some people won't use certain cameras because of the ergonomics...yet we seem to feel the phone being ok from an ergonomic view. Not for me. I hate holding the damn thing away from my body and trying to compose a good image. I hate having to touch the screen to focus...causing my carefully composed image to move. I hate having to hit a virtual button on the screen to take a photo. The experience of using a phone to capture anything other than a quick snap is truly painful.

No thanks...much rather bring along my photo equipment and enjoy my photography and results.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2019, 07:58:44 pm »

Phone apps like "Moment" and "Filmic Pro" for the iPhone allow you to do all kinds of things more than the bare iPhone. Nothing has changed. As far as I can remember, people are for and against most anything. For me, it's about how much photography I want to do and the state of mind photographing puts me in. I like my creativity photographically and I believe I can expand and extend that with the latest iPhone 11 Pro and spend more time in that mood. And, after all, I am retired. I still have a roomful of equipment to use and no doubt will also do that.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 08:39:28 pm »

It's funny how many talk about camera ergonomics and some people won't use certain cameras because of the ergonomics...yet we seem to feel the phone being ok from an ergonomic view. Not for me. I hate holding the damn thing away from my body and trying to compose a good image. I hate having to touch the screen to focus...causing my carefully composed image to move. I hate having to hit a virtual button on the screen to take a photo. The experience of using a phone to capture anything other than a quick snap is truly painful.

No thanks...much rather bring along my photo equipment and enjoy my photography and results.

The point has never been that serious photographers will stop using their dedicated cameras.

But serious photographers make up probably less than 10% of interchangeable lens camera buyers. The bulk is people who just want better memories of their life events. And convenience trumps ergonomics for them. Especially when the quality gets this close to what APS-C cameras deliver for web postings and prints no larger than A4.

This is why Canon is predicting such a dramatic drop of their sales in the coming years.

Cheers,
Bernard

BJL

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Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max—which ILCs are becoming obsolete?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 08:59:36 pm »

On one hand, I think a good argument can be made that the latest generation of high end camera-phones are good enough for many needs of "casual photographers"; ones whose gear in the past did not go beyond an entry-level SLR (film or digital) with a 3x or 4x kit zoom, or a mainstream-priced compact digital camera. Certainly for FOV, where I would argue that 3MP or "2K" resolution was enough for compact digital cameras to replace SLRs for a great majority of those casual users about two decades ago and with a 2x crop from 12MP or giving that, camera-phones like the new iPhones (and alternatives like Samsung Galaxies and Google Pixels) give that 2K/3MP across the entire FOV range from very wide to about 100mm equivalent; better than any kit zoom. Throw in much discussed advantages like video, internet connectivity and ever-improving low light ability via frame merging and such (so long as subject movement is not an issue) and it looks to me that low end ILCs with a single basic kit lens are a threatened species.

On the other hand, I cannot understand the insistence of people like Bernard that the entire sub-35mm format ILC category is seriously threatened by these cameras that still have the fundamental physical disadvantage of vastly smaller sensors and far smaller effective aperture sizes, and thus far lower light-gathering speed, with focal lengths also severely limited by the need for pocketability. As soon as a casual picture-taker is interested in the motion handling abilities of even f/4 in 4/3" or APS-C format, or the options for far greater telephoto reach from quite modestly-priced lenses offer (300mm equivalent FOV and beyond), there is plenty of room for a 4/3" or APS-C body with a couple of decent lenses (or even just one super-zoom) to do things that no phone-camera comes up to, at a price that no 35mm format alternative comes down to.

May I invoke the stereotype of the "soccer mum"? Because photographing children at play (or other "wild life") is just one common example where a smaller format (4/3" to APS-C) ILC kit can be both way more capable than a phone and way cheaper (and lighter) than a 35mm format kit with comparable FOV range.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max—which ILCs are becoming obsolete?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 09:19:46 pm »

May I invoke the stereotype of the "soccer mum"? Because photographing children at play (or other "wild life") is just one common example where a smaller format (4/3" to APS-C) ILC kit can be both way more capable than a phone and way cheaper (and lighter) than a 35mm format kit with comparable FOV range.

I have a daughter and she has friends. And they have parents. And many of them like to take pictures... and they use their phones...

Anyway, I may be wrong, Future will tell.

Cheers,
Bernard

JaapD

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2019, 06:35:18 am »

My iPhone is indeed able to take pictures. For me there ends any relationship to ‘photography’. The iPhone 11 doesn’t change this.

I can’t understand why anyone remotely connected to photography would even consider a phone as a replacement for a camera. Let’s for convenience say that it’s my narrow minded thinking  :-[

Regards,
Jaap.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2019, 06:47:53 am »

Few are as dedicated to fine APO lenses than am I. And I don’t see the Apple iPhone 11 Pro as anything but a replacement for the tiny cameras I sometimes have to also carry around. Plus it does a ton of other things I have need of in a day.

I don’t expect it to compete with my three Printing Nikkors, NOCT Nikkor, or Leica Elmarit R 100mm, etc. It leans the other way, toward less perfect, yet for me, “available” photo taking when I am not with my various technical cameras and so on. This is especially true of the “Deep Fusion” feature when it arrives for the iPhone 11 Pro and if it works like they say.

I see this phone as opening up short videos (not mainstream movies) for more folks, especially with apps like “Filmic” and “Moment.”

I don’t see high-end photography dying to any greater degree than it ALREADY HAS! That future has already passed, IMO.

I am a photographer 24x7 (to some degree), but up until now I have been limited by the huge pile of gear I have to have for my close-up/macro focus-stacking. I like the idea of going for a walk with a pocked-sized iPhone in case I see something beautiful. It is that simple and my bet is that many other photographers will see this too.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2019, 07:52:08 am »

My iPhone is indeed able to take pictures. For me there ends any relationship to ‘photography’. The iPhone 11 doesn’t change this.

I can’t understand why anyone remotely connected to photography would even consider a phone as a replacement for a camera. Let’s for convenience say that it’s my narrow minded thinking  :-[

Maybe because the level of image quality of an iPhone Pro 11 is close to what APS-C DSLRs were offering 6-7 years ago?

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: Harbinger: The iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2019, 08:49:54 am »

The point has never been that serious photographers will stop using their dedicated cameras.

But serious photographers make up probably less than 10% of interchangeable lens camera buyers. The bulk is people who just want better memories of their life events. And convenience trumps ergonomics for them. Especially when the quality gets this close to what APS-C cameras deliver for web postings and prints no larger than A4.

This is why Canon is predicting such a dramatic drop of their sales in the coming years.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ummm...I believe the member that started this thread is an accomplished photographer and is talking about using the new iPhone. My view on ergonomics still stands.
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