Extreme weather

[Rob C]

Also, as Alan Klein keeps pointing out, global warming has many positive impacts:

https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAETEWC?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare

If it's CNN, how can you possibly quote it?

;-)

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

No climate event of the last 2,000 years looks like humanity’s
Warm or cool periods you may have heard of were regional affairs
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/the-only-global-climate-event-of-last-2000-years-was-ours/

Some people who reject climate science seem to think climate scientists have never heard that the climate has changed in the past—as if scientists weren’t the ones who discovered those events in the first place. In reality, researchers are intensely interested in past climates because there is a lot to learn from them. You can see how sensitive Earth’s climate is to changes, for example, or how variable things can be even when the long-term average temperature is steady.

(“Climate has changed without humans before, so humans can’t be changing it now” is not a logically valid argument, FYI. It's the equivalent to arguing that we can't cause forest fires, since they occurred before we were around.)

The results showed that only one period was a truly global event—the modern warming caused by human activities. More than 98% of the globe experienced the warmest temperatures of the last 2,000 years during the 20th century.

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So freaking what?

Some people did something. We exist. We do things. What do you want? Humans not to exist? Or to stop our activities?

[Alan Klein]

So freaking what?

Some people did something. We exist. We do things. What do you want? Humans not to exist? Or to stop our activities?

Good point.  We effect the land. The whole middle of the US has been farmed for a couple of hundred years due to population increase.  That's affected the earth.  There are hundreds of things we do that affects the earth.  Unless we plan on limiting births through force like China did with their one-child policy, we're not going to change much.  Even China still has 1.4 billion people, so that didn't work anyway.  We have to trust that the earth will take care of itself.  It adapts; we adapt. That doesn;t mean we shouldn't try be good stewards of the environment and nature.  But just be reasonable.  A little humility about our limited power would be helpful. 

[RSL]

So freaking what?

Some people did something. We exist. We do things. What do you want? Humans not to exist? Or to stop our activities?

I think Bart's telling us we need to run for it, Slobodan. That would be about as useful a defense as anything else anyone could do.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Unless we plan on limiting births through force like China did with their one-child policy...

Do not worry. We have a much more formidable totalitarian force than the communist China: feminists and leftists. Neither China, nor Russia, with all their military might, even combined, would ever be able to decimate the Western civilization they way our own feminists and leftists will.

[Alan Klein]

Do not worry. We have a much more formidable totalitarian force than the communist China: feminists and leftists. Neither China, nor Russia, with all their military might, even combined, would ever be able to decimate the Western civilization they way our own feminists and leftists will.

Interestingly, births are down in many western societies (plus Japan).  Isn't Europe decreasing in population, at least native born?  Maybe the flow of immigrants is a natural condition.  And beneficial.  After all, isn't that how Africans inhabited Europe. Now, others are immigrating there. Look what happened to the population of North America in just a few hundred years.  With America going broke, I was telling my my wife we should let in anyone who wants to come here and legalize all illegals. After all, someone has to pay for our Social Security.

[Rob C]

What, you think you couldn't make it happen again, worldwide this time?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl

The first one was largely ignorance-led; that excuse is now redundant. I see it hasn't taken long for the mindset to return, though, within an educated group of those with the ability to be movers and shakers, that should be far more aware and willing to think about prevention and act accordingly. But no...

It's driving part of the African migration; across the world Mongolian wanderers have had to give up their herds and try to gather in cities; China and Russia face similar, and if this temperature change keeps up, Europe will fare little better. It's not just a bunch of have-nots looking for a free lunch, any more than it was for the Oakies.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... to think about prevention and act accordingly. But no...

Like what? Banning plastic straws? Erecting more Don Quixote enemies?

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Like what? Banning plastic straws? Erecting more Don Quixote enemies?

Even those beat being hated by your (grand)children or others who will suffer the consequences.

Many fires can be put out with a single cup of water, if applied early.
Waiting to take corrective actions will only magnify the task and its cost.

Cheers,
Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I think Bart's telling us we need to run for it, Slobodan. That would be about as useful a defense as anything else anyone could do.

I'm not so sure that Canada would let you in. Aren't they planning to build a wall to keep the Americans out?

Cheers,
Bart

[RSL]

Even those beat being hated by your (grand)children or others who will suffer the consequences.

Many fires can be put out with a single cup of water, if applied early.
Waiting to take corrective actions will only magnify the task and its cost.

Cheers,
Bart

Okay, Bart, tell us what you think the "cup of water" is.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Waiting to take corrective actions...

Again, like what?

Banning air traffic and cow farting? Not having children? The catastrophic scenarios are like 100 to 200 years away, not 12 years. In that time frame we will find technological solutions and/or adapt, without killing our way of life to return to hunting for our lunch with bow and arrow.

[LesPalenik]

Again, like what?

Banning air traffic and cow farting? Not having children? The catastrophic scenarios are like 100 to 200 years away, not 12 years. In that time frame we will find technological solutions and/or adapt, without killing our way of life to return to hunting for our lunch with bow and arrow.

Making the bows and arrows will be easy, but there won't be any lunch game to hunt for.

[LesPalenik]

quote author=Slobodan Blagojevic link=topic=131117.msg1121489#msg1121489 date=1564239494]

Like what? Banning plastic straws? Erecting more Don Quixote enemies?

That's a good suggestion, Slobodan. Banning plastic straws is an excellent first initiative. But since many youths are now unable to drink without a straw, some education may be needed.
In Singapore, they invented and documented a not too difficult method to tackle this challenge:

In a highly technical yet precise manner, the forum user breaks it down into 5 simple steps that is achievable enough.

https://mothership.sg/2018/07/kfc-no-straw/

[Rob C]

Like what? Banning plastic straws? Erecting more Don Quixote enemies?

Straws would be a start, then we could think sbout the zillions of plastic flip-flop shoes that I heard are even more prevalent on beaches - as washed up junk - than bags, even. The shops here are doing a good thing with bags: they charge for them now. I have been reusing mine for months and they hold up perfectly well. The car has climate: I tried it when new to make sure it was working - after figuring out how! - and it hasn't been used since except for the very rare times I have to hit the motorway, when the main reason I close the window is to prevent getting pebbles and rubbish in my face. The home unit hasn't been on in decades, other than to check out it works.

I discovered my legs a couple of years ago, and now driving is only for heavy shopping; the klick's walk into the port and a supermarket does me good. I even use the iPad most of the time instead of the desktop computer and the monitor. How many lights do I need to have on to use it or watch the news or Montalbano? Tiny things, multiplied by households, and they achieve something to the general good. And save us money, which is a pleasant side-effect.

Everyone can find little things they can think about in their own lifestyle, things that have no purpose whatsoever but, nonetheless, churn up the bills and waste energy.

There doesn't have to be a total revolution to get things going in the right direction.

You only have to examine your own style of living and can find all sorts of tiny things that add up.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Okay, Bart, tell us what you think the "cup of water" is.

Too little, too late. We've passed the point where a cup sufficed several decades ago.

Right now it already takes a lot more to even stabilize the situation at a 2 degree Celsius Global temperature increase.

If you are seriously interested in doing something about it, I suggest reading a copy of "Drawdown". The choice of "the 100 most substantive solutions to global warming" might inspire you.

Cheers,
Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Straws would be a start, then we could think sbout the zillions of plastic flip-flop shoes that I heard are even more prevalent on beaches - as washed up junk - than bags, even. The shops here are doing a good thing with bags: they charge for them now. I have been reusing mine for months and they hold up perfectly well. The car has climate: I tried it when new to make sure it was working - after figuring out how! - and it hasn't been used since except for the very rare times I have to hit the motorway, when the main reason I close the window is to prevent getting pebbles and rubbish in my face. The home unit hasn't been on in decades, other than to check out it works.

I discovered my legs a couple of years ago, and now driving is only for heavy shopping; the klick's walk into the port and a supermarket does me good. I even use the iPad most of the time instead of the desktop computer and the monitor. How many lights do I need to have on to use it or watch the news or Montalbano? Tiny things, multiplied by households, and they achieve something to the general good. And save us money, which is a pleasant side-effect.

Everyone can find little things they can think about in their own lifestyle, things that have no purpose whatsoever but, nonetheless, churn up the bills and waste energy.

There doesn't have to be a total revolution to get things going in the right direction.

You only have to examine your own style of living and can find all sorts of tiny things that add up.

Fully agree, but I'm afraid it will fall on deaf ears.

It's even being used to troll (and demonstrate ignorance):
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49090643

"It just shows the lack of understanding the administration has on how the current waste management infrastructure works in the US. If they did, they'd know that straws are too lightweight to be recycled and are made of a material with no end-of-use life."

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Everyone can find little things they can think about in their own lifestyle, things that have no purpose whatsoever but, nonetheless, churn up the bills and waste energy...

Yeah, it might make you feel oh, so good and righteous, but it does squat for the climate, even if 7.5 billion people would do the same.

I, for one, love my a/c (just not AOC) in my car and home.

[Rob C]

Yeah, it might make you feel oh, so good and righteous, but it does squat for the climate, even if 7.5 billion people would do the same.

I, for one, love my a/c (just not AOC) in my car and home.

Nothing to do with feeling righteous at all. Everything to do with cutting out waste and expense where possible, knowing it has the added advantage of being a useful effort. Everything helps in the battle against waste and the associated cost in energy terms of useless consumption. Regarding the straws, think of the energy saving in not producing the silly things in the first place, never mind the buying of them and then the clearing away of them.

Looking after the pennies helps the pounds look after themselves, you know.

;-)