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Author Topic: The American Constitution  (Read 82858 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #380 on: June 10, 2019, 07:42:11 pm »

... the state has a compelling interest in having healthy, working, residents...

Yes, legal residents. It boggles the mind that any states would have a “compelling interest” in having illegal residents, let alone provide social services for them.

Also,  note the irony: legal citizens who do not themselves have insurance will be paying for illegal residents to have one. O tempora, o mores!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 09:15:50 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #381 on: June 10, 2019, 07:47:06 pm »

Please note the the plan is to provide health care benefits to adults 19-25, *some of whom* will be undocumented residents.  Note that these same people are often paying income taxes, are *definitely* paying sales and usage taxes, and that the state has a compelling interest in having healthy, working, residents.

Note also that, as per USA Today, California is currently projecting a 20BN budget surplus.

Personally I think it might be better PR if CA handles it's homelessness issue, or at least gets them to stop defecating on the sidewalks, before it starts giving out freebies to non-citizens. 

CA, the most taxed state in the USA and the one with the largest homeless population, and growing I might add. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 07:52:58 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #382 on: June 10, 2019, 07:52:41 pm »

Personally I think it might be better PR if CA handles it's homelessness issue, or at least gets them to stop defecating on the sidewalks, before it starts giving out freebies to non-citizens. 

CA, the most taxed states in the USA and the one with the largest homeless population, and growing I might add. 

It is growing. Note where: in Democrat-run states. It is in decline in Republican-run states:

JoeKitchen

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #383 on: June 10, 2019, 08:03:05 pm »

It is growing. Note where: in Democrat-run states. It is in decline in Republican-run states:

My personal favorite (and not for a good reason) about this crisis is how the homeless encampments on the levees are actually making them weaker.  I was watching a news story on this and they interviewed a politician.  His solution was to create a pamphlet explaining how camping on the levees weakens them and then to pass them out to those camping on them.  His thought was that after they were shown the harm they were doing, they would recognize their wrong doing and voluntarily decided to leave. 

First, he was completely serious in thinking this would actually work.  Second, the idea that maybe they would need to make it illegal to camp on the levees and then forcibly arrest and remove those doing so was not even a thought. 

Meanwhile, those citizens interviewed living near the levees and in the flood zone were a little more then worried and did not think to kindly of this proposed idea. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 08:08:10 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #384 on: June 10, 2019, 09:30:37 pm »

My guess, it's to the advantage of America if we can negotiate trade agreements with individual countries rather than the EU as a whole.  That way we can play off one country against the other to get the best deals.  So helping to break GB away from the pack is a good start.  But you can't blame him for the original Brexit vote.  That was your politicians doing.
Is it a good idea for the US to advocate destroying the economy of Britain?  Banks are already relocating, the European Medecines Agency (the FDA for all of the EU) is leaving London with a couple of thousand good paying jobs, auto manufacturers will be next alone with other industries that rely on customs free delivery of parts from the EU.  Negotiating anything with Britain is not going to change the US relationship with the EU which is a far bigger trading partner.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #385 on: June 10, 2019, 09:35:06 pm »

Personally I think it might be better PR if CA handles it's homelessness issue, or at least gets them to stop defecating on the sidewalks, before it starts giving out freebies to non-citizens. 

CA, the most taxed state in the USA and the one with the largest homeless population, and growing I might add.
We were in Oakland this weekend visiting our daughter and there is a large homeless population there.  I didn't see any poop on the sidewalks when I was out walking.  One reason is likely the good year around climate.  Little chance of freezing to death.  Washington DC also has a large homeless population as well and perhaps other big cities do too.  I doubt the CA homeless population is any greater as a percent of total population than anywhere else.  I would be interested to know if there are any state by state statistics.  I would assume the climate in Texas is good for the homeless also.
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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #386 on: June 10, 2019, 10:37:23 pm »


You insist in overlooking his influence. Oh well, so be it.
Curious that you think Trump has so much influence in GB and Europe too.  Why do you think that is?  And what influence are you referring too?

Robert Roaldi

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #387 on: June 10, 2019, 10:50:28 pm »


First, he was completely serious in thinking this would actually work.  Second, the idea that maybe they would need to make it illegal to camp on the levees and then forcibly arrest and remove those doing so was not even a thought. 


The pamphlet idea seems a little silly, I agree. But I can see some problems with forcibly arresting them all too. So they're arrested, then what.

As for weakening the levees, I wouldn't worry. They probably weren't built properly in the first place, they probably haven't been maintained, and there is no climate change, so why worry. :)



The graph above (Slobodan's post, I believe) about there being more homeless in Democratic states is interesting, but would be more convincing if it showed data for more than just 4 or 5 states. For all I know, this is cherry-picked information. Is there a more complete data set?

It raises some questions. Did they migrate to those states because the benefits are better or is it that Democratic-run states create more homeless because the economies there are worse? Because it's hard to picture California having a bad economy. But if they did migrate to those states, how did they get there? Did they hitch hike?

If, as Russ and others are predicting, more and more states will vote Republican, what happens to their homeless? If all the states end up run by Republicans, will there be no homeless left?

The more nagging question I have is if the economy is doing so much better, as has been doing better for about 6-7 years now (as measured by new jobs statistics that come out every month that show steady month over month job growth since about 2009-2010), why do you have all these homeless?

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Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #388 on: June 10, 2019, 10:57:28 pm »

Is it a good idea for the US to advocate destroying the economy of Britain?  Banks are already relocating, the European Medecines Agency (the FDA for all of the EU) is leaving London with a couple of thousand good paying jobs, auto manufacturers will be next alone with other industries that rely on customs free delivery of parts from the EU.  Negotiating anything with Britain is not going to change the US relationship with the EU which is a far bigger trading partner.

Americans didn't vote for Brexit.  When that happened in June 2016, he hadn't even won the Republican nomination to run for president. That wasn't until the following month in July 2016.  You're giving Trump too much credit.  If the British economy gets screwed up, it is the Brits who are responsible. 


Once Brexit happens, if we can negotiate a good deal with them, it will help us negotiate a better deal with the EU.  For example, if we buy more British cars because they don;t have more tariffs on our stuff, then the German cars makers will insist the German government give those damn Americans a better deal and reduce German tariffs on our stuff too.  That's how it will work.  If the EU eventual ends, a possibility, then we'll be able to negotiate with individual countries who will be competing with each other to sell their stuff to us and provide better deals to get our business.  That's how the world works.  Trump knows that.  Don;t you think he played one contractor against the other when he bought out construction for his real estate?  I saw that in real life once when he squeezed the company I was working for and then gave it to a competitor anyway.  (The competitor was a German firm!! - Siemens. ) One advantage of a business experienced president.  Unlike Obama who had no clue how to negotiate.

Alan Klein

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #389 on: June 10, 2019, 11:11:02 pm »

The pamphlet idea seems a little silly, I agree. But I can see some problems with forcibly arresting them all too. So they're arrested, then what.

As for weakening the levees, I wouldn't worry. They probably weren't built properly in the first place, they probably haven't been maintained, and there is no climate change, so why worry. :)



The graph above (Slobodan's post, I believe) about there being more homeless in Democratic states is interesting, but would be more convincing if it showed data for more than just 4 or 5 states. For all I know, this is cherry-picked information. Is there a more complete data set?

It raises some questions. Did they migrate to those states because the benefits are better or is it that Democratic-run states create more homeless because the economies there are worse? Because it's hard to picture California having a bad economy. But if they did migrate to those states, how did they get there? Did they hitch hike?

If, as Russ and others are predicting, more and more states will vote Republican, what happens to their homeless? If all the states end up run by Republicans, will there be no homeless left?

The more nagging question I have is if the economy is doing so much better, as has been doing better for about 6-7 years now (as measured by new jobs statistics that come out every month that show steady month over month job growth since about 2009-2010), why do you have all these homeless?



Many of the homeless have psychological problems.  When mental hospitals were closed, many of these people wound up on the streets.  Often they stop taking prescribed medicine.  Many take illegal drugs.  No one wants to re-hospitalized these people.  It is a real problem.  Frankly, there's no real reason for street people.  In NYC, there's billions available to house them and take care of them.  I'm sure California has similar money available.  They must if they can afford medical care for all the illegals. 

32BT

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #390 on: June 11, 2019, 02:16:35 am »

Americans didn't vote for Brexit.  When that happened in June 2016, he hadn't even won the Republican nomination to run for president. That wasn't until the following month in July 2016.  You're giving Trump too much credit.  If the British economy gets screwed up, it is the Brits who are responsible. 


Once Brexit happens, if we can negotiate a good deal with them, it will help us negotiate a better deal with the EU.  For example, if we buy more British cars because they don;t have more tariffs on our stuff, then the German cars makers will insist the German government give those damn Americans a better deal and reduce German tariffs on our stuff too.  That's how it will work.  If the EU eventual ends, a possibility, then we'll be able to negotiate with individual countries who will be competing with each other to sell their stuff to us and provide better deals to get our business.  That's how the world works.  Trump knows that.  Don;t you think he played one contractor against the other when he bought out construction for his real estate?  I saw that in real life once when he squeezed the company I was working for and then gave it to a competitor anyway.  (The competitor was a German firm!! - Siemens. ) One advantage of a business experienced president.  Unlike Obama who had no clue how to negotiate.

Sounds odd coming from you Alan. The problem with Trump is that he uses the "Italian" method. You'll negotiate untill the money is in the bank. Signing a contract? Break it open before the ink is even dry. Why is that a problem? Because the contractors start procurement. Once they are invested you break open the contract and renegotiate an even better deal. Contractors can hardly back out of the deal because of those investments.

While that may seem business savvy at the surface, it's does not particularly make you a trustworthy partner, and is highly counterproductive when you aim to create a network of capable businesspartners (or, on the political stage: allies).

You can blame Bush jr for a lot of things, but he was very well connected and knew how to build and run a team.

And please note: if we compare Huawai vs Apple, Huawai is the better choice. That's both literally and figuratively: desintegrate Europe and see the influence of Russia and China increase exponentially.

Oh... Wait... Russia...

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jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #391 on: June 11, 2019, 03:33:29 am »

If the British economy gets screwed up, it is the Brits who are responsible. 


Couldn't agree more!
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #392 on: June 11, 2019, 04:57:36 am »

1. Curious that you think Trump has so much influence in GB and Europe too.  Why do you think that is?  2. And what influence are you referring too?


1. How many times does it to make you get the same point?

Let me try to spell it out, as much for you as for those kids in the now infamous school in Britain getting sex-orientation "guidance":

Trump, in much of Europe, is a figure of derision. In some parts of Britain, however, there is sufficient ignorance, neo-Naziism, faith in unicorns, fairy godmothers et al. that a newly prominent Brit such as Farage, allied with a popular cartoon character like our Boris, who gets to talk and shake hands with a showbiz hero and golf course owner, one of the fatter fat cats, appears to hold the key to the unfolding of an American cheque book that will then be shaken and strirred all over the benighted land, creating massive advantages and pay packets.

That, as you so eloquently said yourself below (and described even earlier as a tactic of divide and conquer):

"Once Brexit happens, if we can negotiate a good deal with them, it will help us negotiate a better deal with the EU.  For example, if we buy more British cars because they don;t have more tariffs on our stuff, then the German cars makers will insist the German government give those damn Americans a better deal and reduce German tariffs on our stuff too.  That's how it will work.  If the EU eventual ends, a possibility, then we'll be able to negotiate with individual countries who will be competing with each other to sell their stuff to us and provide better deals to get our business.  That's how the world works.  Trump knows that.  Don;t you think he played one contractor against the other when he bought out construction for his real estate?  I saw that in real life once when he squeezed the company I was working for and then gave it to a competitor anyway.  (The competitor was a German firm!! - Siemens. ) One advantage of a business experienced president."

is one of the prime reasons Brits at large should open their eyes and cover their ears. Trump is playing the UK for idiots, and in this current state of national madness, he's right. And as Oscar and I have already indicated, the ultimate destruction of some European solidarity makes the expansionist inclinations of Russia ever more possible to accomplish.

Quite why you consider a business tactic that screwed your own employers a good one, also leaves my mind wondering thoughts about you. I see that not a million miles from kissing the guy who mugged you. Future deals with anyone who does that also brings to mind this: screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me. So what do you do? You vote for the guy. Hey ho.

2. I am referring to the influence that I described above and in earlier posts, including the public backing of a specific candidate in another country's internal election processes, made even the more shocking by doing so during a state visit to that country. Exactly what Russia did to aid Trump get to power. Many of your own countymen objected strongly to that interference; I do the same here. Far fom being a clever politician, he has simply laid himself open to even stronger pressure from without the States; his own Faustian deal, if you like. The kinder assumption, of course, being that he will see it as pressure, not as something he cherishes. And guess who will pay the price, either way, both in your country as in mine?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 06:45:13 am by Rob C »
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jeremyrh

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #393 on: June 11, 2019, 05:25:52 am »

On top of which we have Pompeo talking about intervening in a UK general election  against Corbyn. Of course meddling in foreign elections is the general modus operandi for the US in Latin America but it’s a nasty realisation that the UK has become another banana republic.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #394 on: June 11, 2019, 06:53:31 am »

We were in Oakland this weekend visiting our daughter and there is a large homeless population there.  I didn't see any poop on the sidewalks when I was out walking.  One reason is likely the good year around climate.  Little chance of freezing to death.  Washington DC also has a large homeless population as well and perhaps other big cities do too.  I doubt the CA homeless population is any greater as a percent of total population than anywhere else.  I would be interested to know if there are any state by state statistics.  I would assume the climate in Texas is good for the homeless also.

I will admit that the fact that CA is warm all year round is certainly a reason for the homelessness; if I was homeless CA would be a good option to think about.  However, this does not take away from the fact that the homeless population in CA has been growing and is the largest in the nation.  (See below)

I think I read last week homelessness grow 16% year over year in CA. 

It is becoming a real issue.  I even read that there is a fear of a typhus outbreak this summer amongst the homeless.  There are examples of people getting plague.  I already mentioned the issues with the levees. 

There is even a poop app for San Fran where you can look up the location of poop on the side walk.  Now the city is claiming that the increase is poop is from mindless dog owners, not the sudden increase in homeless, but...
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Rob C

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #395 on: June 11, 2019, 07:12:45 am »

I will admit that the fact that CA is warm all year round is certainly a reason for the homelessness; if I was homeless CA would be a good option to think about.  However, this does not take away from the fact that the homeless population in CA has been growing and is the largest in the nation.  (See below)

I think I read last week homelessness grow 16% year over year in CA. 

It is becoming a real issue.  I even read that there is a fear of a typhus outbreak this summer amongst the homeless.  There are examples of people getting plague.  I already mentioned the issues with the levees. 

There is even a poop app for San Fran where you can look up the location of poop on the side walk.  Now the city is claiming that the increase is poop is from mindless dog owners, not the sudden increase in homeless, but...

Unless you've got seriously small people or overly large dogs, it doesn't take a seasoned wildlife tracker to spot the different spoor varieties. If people kept more goats...

Rob

JoeKitchen

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #396 on: June 11, 2019, 07:13:23 am »

The pamphlet idea seems a little silly, I agree. But I can see some problems with forcibly arresting them all too. So they're arrested, then what.

As for weakening the levees, I wouldn't worry. They probably weren't built properly in the first place, they probably haven't been maintained, and there is no climate change, so why worry. :)



The graph above (Slobodan's post, I believe) about there being more homeless in Democratic states is interesting, but would be more convincing if it showed data for more than just 4 or 5 states. For all I know, this is cherry-picked information. Is there a more complete data set?

It raises some questions. Did they migrate to those states because the benefits are better or is it that Democratic-run states create more homeless because the economies there are worse? Because it's hard to picture California having a bad economy. But if they did migrate to those states, how did they get there? Did they hitch hike?

If, as Russ and others are predicting, more and more states will vote Republican, what happens to their homeless? If all the states end up run by Republicans, will there be no homeless left?

The more nagging question I have is if the economy is doing so much better, as has been doing better for about 6-7 years now (as measured by new jobs statistics that come out every month that show steady month over month job growth since about 2009-2010), why do you have all these homeless?

LOL, good point on the levees.  I saw something a few years back on how they were not in fact built in the best possible way.  Scientists predict that when the next big one hits, most of the levees will collapse, causing even more problems then just the immediate destruction from the earthquake. 

Insofar as what is causing the homelessness, I feel it is a combination of factors.  As was stated earlier, the warmer weather and not having to fear freezing to death in the winter certainly adds to the problem. 

Also, housing in CA is very expensive.  From what I've read this is due to three factors, the environmental laws make it extremely difficult to develop undeveloped land.  Residents have way too much say in preserving the look of the neighborhood, making it very difficult to get multi-family structure built.  Both of these keep supply levels low, even though demand is increasing.  And last, Prop 13 limits how much existing homeowners can have their property taxes raised year over year, so to make up for the deficit this creates, new owners get a extremely large increase in property tax when they first buy.  So this leads to some people falling down on their luck and becoming homeless, however ...

The majority of the homeless in CA are not these people, they are addicts and those with mental illness (just like every where else).  The group above typically has enough sense to seek help, whereas many addicts and mentally ill do not want help (or at least turn it down).  Getting help requires getting sober, which some addicts don't like, or taking your meds, which some mentally ill do not like due to the side effects.  So, since these people are adults, they can refuse help. 

Now the issue in CA, from what I have read, is that it is now not illegal to camp in public places or sleep in your car overnight.  (From a moral and empathy perspective, I can understand this.)  So if you have a large amount of homeless, who are homeless due to their addiction, and they refuse help, you cant do anything about since they are allowed to be there.  In other states, you can arrest them and at least take them to a center to get help.  It may not seem right arresting an addict, but at the end of the day it is better then leaving him/her on the street to continue their addiction.  Not to mention, having all the public health concerns that comes with homelessness is something to be avoided as well. 

PS, I should add, regardless of your feelings here, leaving them on the levees to dig out level areas for encampments should not even be an option.  What to do with them after arresting them is an issue and concern, however the more immediate and dire one is making sure the levees remain structurally sound. 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 01:58:13 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #397 on: June 11, 2019, 07:20:48 am »

Unless you've got seriously small people or overly large dogs, it doesn't take a seasoned wildlife tracker to spot the different spoor varieties. If people kept more goats...

Rob

Problem is Rob, your right, but San Fran is refusing to identify where each pile came from.  They have admitted that they don't care to figure that out, and are just cleaning it up.  I mean from a logistical stand point, can you really expect those cleaning it up to inspect it too?   No. 

But then again, if so, you cant claim all of a sudden it is from dogs. 
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #398 on: June 11, 2019, 07:24:10 am »

Once Brexit happens, if we can negotiate a good deal with them, it will help us negotiate a better deal with the EU.  For example, if we buy more British cars because they don;t have more tariffs on our stuff, then the German cars makers will insist the German government give those damn Americans a better deal and reduce German tariffs on our stuff too.  That's how it will work.  If the EU eventual ends, a possibility, then we'll be able to negotiate with individual countries who will be competing with each other to sell their stuff to us and provide better deals to get our business.  That's how the world works.  Trump knows that.
Trump knows nothing about international trade and his steps are being guided by a couple of loony economists who are so far from the mainstream it isn't funny.  Is there such a think as a British car maker?  I don't think so.  Ford use to own Jaguar and then sold it to Tata Motors who are headquartered in India.  I don't know if all of Jaguar and Landrover parts are made in the UK or if some are sourced from elsewhere.  Minicooper are owned by BMW and again, I don't know whether 100% of content comes from the UK.  Other foreign owned British manufacturers are extremely concerned about Brexit.  There is a large Nissan plant in the northern part of the UK where there was a large pro-Brexit vote.  that plant is in danger of being relocated because of parts acquisition issues that will be come more complicated under Brexit.  What else does the US buy from the UK??  In our own home the only things we have are Twinings tea.  I did buy a Burburry trench coat but that was about 20 years ago.  It's not clear to me what value the US will get from a UK trade negotiation.

Quote
  Don;t you think he played one contractor against the other when he bought out construction for his real estate?  I saw that in real life once when he squeezed the company I was working for and then gave it to a competitor anyway.  (The competitor was a German firm!! - Siemens. ) One advantage of a business experienced president.  Unlike Obama who had no clue how to negotiate.
I certainly don't place much faith in Trump's business experience.  He is the self-professed 'King of Debt' and that has not served him very well on some well documented occasions.  He was fortunate to be bailed out by his father on at least one occasion (and of course his father provided him with a considerable amount of money to start with).  His real estate losses are well documented and the fact that he was able to establish many LLCs to protect his holdings kept him from real bankruptcy (this is something that most small businesses that are not real estate holding companies can't take advantage of).  His sweetheart deals with the private banking group at Deutsche Bank are well documented and weird in that the merchant banking division of the company cut him off after his Chicago loans defaulted.  We also don't have a full understanding of whether various foreign parties used Trump real estate for money laundering.

Doesn't the fact that he has refused to disclose his current income tax return bother you?  Don't we have a right to know whether there are any fishy things going on?  I'll leave aside the fact that many of his business practices were immoral (e.g., not paying contractors their due payment).
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The American Constitution
« Reply #399 on: June 11, 2019, 07:28:43 am »

LOL, good point on the levees.  I saw something a few years back on how they were not in fact built in the best possible way.  Scientists predict that when the next big one hits, most of the levees will collapse, causing even more problems then just the immediate destruction from the earthquake. 
the Midwest flooding has been well documented.  The amount of corn acreage that has been planted this year is dramatically below normal and there is a good possibility that a lot of farmers will lose the whole planting season.  It's not clear whether they will be able to get soybeans planted (a shorter growing season).  It's not just the levee situation but swollen rivers prevent barge traffic as well.  there was a good story in the paper this AM about the situation in northwest Arkansas where they cannot deliver fertilizer to farmers at all.
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