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Author Topic: Brexit Encore  (Read 150801 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1440 on: December 25, 2019, 02:15:33 am »

Brits are soooo done with Brussels  ;D ;D ;D

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1441 on: December 25, 2019, 04:08:30 am »

Brits are soooo done with Brussels  ;D ;D ;D

Wait until they catch up on the Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée kick: the Wars of the Roses will become a footnote in history, and the cheese problem but a burp; sprouts will really turn up the gas.

As for regional accents: brother, you ain't heard nothin' yet!

Rob

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1442 on: December 25, 2019, 06:10:08 am »

So now Spain wants to join Poland and do a Brexit too.
They've had it with Brussel gnomes overreach as well.  This is all going to be good for American trade negotiations. 

Brussels chaos: Spain follows Poland in shock threat to quit EU 'No more humiliation!'

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1220232/Brussels-chaos-Spain-Poland-EU-Brexit-Spaxit-Vox-ECJ-latest-news
 

Alan, I suggest you be wary in the extreme of news obtained from the Daily Express.

Jeremy
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Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1443 on: December 25, 2019, 08:50:49 am »

Alan, I suggest you be wary in the extreme of news obtained from the Daily Express.

Jeremy
Fair enough.  I'm not familiar with the bias over there.   May I suggest Europeans be wary of the extreme news obtained from the NY Times and Washington Post, as well as their outlets and bylines that many papers around the world use.  Their news is very lopsided as well.  Actually, Reuters seems to be generally fairer and more journalism driven.  Bart keyed me into them and I found he was mainly right. 

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1444 on: May 20, 2020, 03:35:14 am »

Just as one might have thought that Brexit had been brushed under the carpet until such time as reasoned (!) negotiations, face-to-face, could resume, we get this:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/18460885.ian-mcconnell-bad-economic-omens-michael-gove-philosophy-european-union-priti-patel-immigration-outlook/

The idiots are not just running Corrie-19!

Rhossydd

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1445 on: May 20, 2020, 03:48:53 am »

Yes, all complete and utter madness.

If you want to understand what's driving this lunacy the best blog to follow is Chris Grey's https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/  a reasoned and knowledgeable weekly update of what's happening (or not) from someone who knows what they're talking about.
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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1446 on: May 20, 2020, 09:22:23 am »

Yes, all complete and utter madness.

If you want to understand what's driving this lunacy the best blog to follow is Chris Grey's https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/  a reasoned and knowledgeable weekly update of what's happening (or not) from someone who knows what they're talking about.


Thank you for the link: since finding it, my iPad battery has run down to 34%!

How sad that the very people across Britain who need to read this blog will never, ever, do that. A very prescient point was made: when the bell rings and Britain is out of the club car park, then that's the time when all the difficulties that will inevitably hit Brits both at home and abroad will become blamed not upon the madness, the suicidal tendencies of the Brexiters, but upon Corinne-19.

People will have died for a wonderful cause: getting Boris and his chums off their own hook.

John Camp

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1447 on: May 20, 2020, 11:21:30 pm »


Thank you for the link: since finding it, my iPad battery has run down to 34%!

How sad that the very people across Britain who need to read this blog will never, ever, do that. A very prescient point was made: when the bell rings and Britain is out of the club car park, then that's the time when all the difficulties that will inevitably hit Brits both at home and abroad will become blamed not upon the madness, the suicidal tendencies of the Brexiters, but upon Corinne-19.

People will have died for a wonderful cause: getting Boris and his chums off their own hook.

What I found particularly interesting in the blog was the idea that the brexiteers ignored geography, economics and history in preference to the concept that the British character would see them through the separation from the EU. Before World War I, the French army promoted the concept of "Elan Vital," which argued that the character, or the spirit, of the individual soldier was more important than any weaponry. I find those two ideas quite similar, basically arguing that character trumps any other consideration. The French, of course, found that Elan Vital only went so far in the face of German heavy machine guns and artillery. I suspect that British character will only go so far in the face of isolation from their natural market place, at a time when the rest of the world is moving to tighter regional integration, rather than isolation. There may be occasional exceptions created by temporary nationalist impulses, but I suspect those impulses will fade away or be torn away when the advantages of integration become more obvious -- if the UK sinks slowly into a long-term, grinding recession, as I think likely, while the EU continues to prosper, then other nations (like Poland) may come to look upon the UK as a good example of a really bad impulse.
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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1448 on: May 21, 2020, 04:07:01 am »

What I found particularly interesting in the blog was the idea that the brexiteers ignored geography, economics and history in preference to the concept that the British character would see them through the separation from the EU. Before World War I, the French army promoted the concept of "Elan Vital," which argued that the character, or the spirit, of the individual soldier was more important than any weaponry. I find those two ideas quite similar, basically arguing that character trumps any other consideration. The French, of course, found that Elan Vital only went so far in the face of German heavy machine guns and artillery. I suspect that British character will only go so far in the face of isolation from their natural market place, at a time when the rest of the world is moving to tighter regional integration, rather than isolation. There may be occasional exceptions created by temporary nationalist impulses, but I suspect those impulses will fade away or be torn away when the advantages of integration become more obvious -- if the UK sinks slowly into a long-term, grinding recession, as I think likely, while the EU continues to prosper, then other nations (like Poland) may come to look upon the UK as a good example of a really bad impulse.

There is really a massive flaw in that assumption about character: there is no such thing as national character, only of national indoctrination formats. I believe these to be skin-deep at best, and that when faced with reality rather than imaginary scenarios that call upon bluster and assumed machismo etc, people start to think for themselves. Which is pretty much what you have said here: "those impulses will fade away or be torn away when the advantages of integration become more obvious -- if the UK sinks slowly into a long-term, grinding recession," but sadly, short of a miracle, it will be too late. Also, with the rise of nationalism recently in several EEC states, it might well see the beginning of a wider unrest as more politicians see advantageous platforms for themselves in stirring up such nationalistic fervour as they exhort their own to follow the British example.

I also think that Europe falls victim to its own rules at times: regarding the closing of national borders which, depending on the state of infection in the individual countries makes perfect sense, both to contain what's already within as to keep out what may be worse outside - it's already prompted voices to say that that flies in the face of the open border principle of European integration, which is a nonsense: closing local borders for health reasons is not at all tantamount to reclosing them for political reasons, but the impression given is that some Eurocrats think politics trumps health. Looked at sideways, it's the same internal argument that has raged across America, Brazil as in many other countries: forget isolation - keep the economy going at all costs. And hey, there is little space between Trump and Bolsonaro when both pretend the pandemic is something that's been highly overrated, and both extol the virtues of hydroxychloroquine, a drug that's repeatedly been declared unsuited to the purpose. And guess what: they are now officially talking about testing it out on NHS staff in Britain! Is that a sop of solidarity towards Trump and South America as the electronic Brexit "negotiations" appear to be heading straight for the rocks?

I sometimes think that this modern world of instant communication/information/misinformation has brought more harm to us than good. Perhaps if they had all been left out of the constant media spotlight, rather than the crap we have to deal with now, politicos and doctors and researchers would have got on with the real job rather than waste time, effort, resources and national patience and create anxiety with the need for constant updates even when there are none to give. It can't create a good, productive working environment when progress becomes a race for publicity instead.

Rhossydd

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1449 on: May 21, 2020, 05:02:12 am »

I sometimes think that this modern world of instant communication/information/misinformation has brought more harm to us than good.
A too much of an all encompassing statement really.

The real problem is admitted here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52750162 "He admitted that the firm was "behind" in the 2016 US presidential election."
The reality is that brexit was the dry run for trump's election. Some well funded people managed to use the massive power of 'Big Data'. Instead of just using it to advertise products to sell, they used the same insidious tech to indoctrinate huge masses of carefully targeted population and they're still topping up the prejudice.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1450 on: May 21, 2020, 09:17:47 am »

What I found particularly interesting in the blog was the idea that the brexiteers ignored geography, economics and history in preference to the concept that the British character would see them through the separation from the EU. Before World War I, the French army promoted the concept of "Elan Vital," which argued that the character, or the spirit, of the individual soldier was more important than any weaponry. I find those two ideas quite similar, basically arguing that character trumps any other consideration. The French, of course, found that Elan Vital only went so far in the face of German heavy machine guns and artillery. I suspect that British character will only go so far in the face of isolation from their natural market place, at a time when the rest of the world is moving to tighter regional integration, rather than isolation. There may be occasional exceptions created by temporary nationalist impulses, but I suspect those impulses will fade away or be torn away when the advantages of integration become more obvious -- if the UK sinks slowly into a long-term, grinding recession, as I think likely, while the EU continues to prosper, then other nations (like Poland) may come to look upon the UK as a good example of a really bad impulse.
Frenchmen aren't Germans aren't British aren't Italians aren't etc.  The idea that these peoples, who tried to kill each other twice during the last century and many times before, would suddenly become buddy-buddy, flies in the biologically history of territorial man.  Trade and military alliances aside, expecting political integration of peoples with differing characteristics, languages, traditions, culture, territory, history, etc. is a bridge too far. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1451 on: May 21, 2020, 10:40:27 am »

Frenchmen aren't Germans aren't British aren't Italians aren't etc.  The idea that these peoples, who tried to kill each other twice during the last century and many times before, would suddenly become buddy-buddy, flies in the biologically history of territorial man.  Trade and military alliances aside, expecting political integration of peoples with differing characteristics, languages, traditions, culture, territory, history, etc. is a bridge too far.

There hasn't been a war in those places since 1945, and my guess is that the people living there kind of like it that way. Are you saying their genes will wake up soon and they'll start shooting each other?

Where did you dig up the term "political integration?" Are you worried about one-world government much?

Stop watching Hollywood WWII films.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1452 on: May 21, 2020, 11:01:15 am »

There hasn't been a war in those places since 1945, and my guess is that the people living there kind of like it that way. Are you saying their genes will wake up soon and they'll start shooting each other?

Where did you dig up the term "political integration?" Are you worried about one-world government much?

Stop watching Hollywood WWII films.
Man is a territorial animal, not much different than a pride of lions.  They will defend their territories. So do we.  It's ingrained in our genes.  When push comes to shove, all niceties are thrown away and people defend themselves as a family, group, tribe, or nation. This is why you see this throughout the world and throughout history.  You can suppress it only on the surface.  But when things get tough, peoples' DNA come out and it becomes adversarial.  It's been the reason that war had become one of the great entertainments of human activity. 

There are great advantages to territorialism. It's why it's such a common feature in so many species.  It allows members to group together to protect and gain resources that would be unattainable singly.  It protects from others trying to take it away from the group.  Unfortunately with creative man, the weapons used in territorial defense have become terribly violent and dangerous for human survival.  Yet the defensive actions built into our genes are still paramount, an explosive situation, one that requires careful control.  But trying to do away with our genetic makeup won't work. I think the EU was an attempt to do this that went too far.  Trade, common reserve currency is one thing.  But getting involved into single political decision making that affect one country over another stimulates the territorial DNA.  People revolt.  It's why nationalism is gaining more adherents.  The EU would be better off just keeping the organization on a commercial, non-political basis if it wants it to survive. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1453 on: May 21, 2020, 12:26:57 pm »

Man is a territorial animal, not much different than a pride of lions.  They will defend their territories. So do we.  It's ingrained in our genes.  When push comes to shove, all niceties are thrown away and people defend themselves as a family, group, tribe, or nation. This is why you see this throughout the world and throughout history.  You can suppress it only on the surface.  But when things get tough, peoples' DNA come out and it becomes adversarial.  It's been the reason that war had become one of the great entertainments of human activity. 

There are great advantages to territorialism. It's why it's such a common feature in so many species.  It allows members to group together to protect and gain resources that would be unattainable singly.  It protects from others trying to take it away from the group.  Unfortunately with creative man, the weapons used in territorial defense have become terribly violent and dangerous for human survival.  Yet the defensive actions built into our genes are still paramount, an explosive situation, one that requires careful control.  But trying to do away with our genetic makeup won't work. I think the EU was an attempt to do this that went too far.  Trade, common reserve currency is one thing.  But getting involved into single political decision making that affect one country over another stimulates the territorial DNA.  People revolt.  It's why nationalism is gaining more adherents.  The EU would be better off just keeping the organization on a commercial, non-political basis if it wants it to survive.

You lost me, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1454 on: May 21, 2020, 01:13:16 pm »

You lost me, I have no idea what you're talking about.
People are patriotic. The EU will continue to disintegrate because of it.

kers

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1455 on: May 21, 2020, 06:49:56 pm »

People are patriotic. The EU will continue to disintegrate because of it.

I would not call the loss of the UK desintegration. Member-states have the 'freedom' not to take part.
It is different with the states in the US. I cannot imagine Hawaii having the choice to go independent from the rest of the US.
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faberryman

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1456 on: May 21, 2020, 06:55:54 pm »

I cannot imagine Hawaii having the choice to go independent from the rest of the US.
That's been tried. It didn't go too well.
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degrub

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1457 on: May 21, 2020, 08:43:48 pm »

Well, then , imagine Texas.
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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1458 on: May 22, 2020, 03:42:48 am »

And consider poor old Hong Kong from today!

Rhossydd

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #1459 on: May 22, 2020, 08:02:00 am »

You lost me, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Just ignore the troll
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