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Author Topic: Brexit Encore  (Read 149982 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #880 on: August 30, 2019, 09:31:47 am »

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jeremyrh

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #881 on: August 30, 2019, 09:37:43 am »

As seen from Holland

[edit: gratuitously offensive cartoon removed by moderator, after complaints]
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 09:50:28 am by Jeremy Roussak »
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RSL

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #882 on: August 30, 2019, 01:35:37 pm »

No point in further embarrassing Jeremy, Bart.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #883 on: August 30, 2019, 02:20:38 pm »

I wouldn't know, Russ. Maybe I would have liked it, I have no idea.

I'm afraid I edited the post to delete the attached image, Bart, and I have no way of knowing its source. I assure you that you would neither have liked it nor found it remotely amusing.

Jeremy
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jeremyrh

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #884 on: August 30, 2019, 03:37:46 pm »

No point in further embarrassing Jeremy, Bart.

Again with the personal attacks, Russ?
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RSL

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #885 on: August 30, 2019, 03:54:34 pm »

I saw the post, Jeremy. You embarrassed the hell out of yourself with that post. And here I was, trying to limit the damage.
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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #886 on: August 30, 2019, 04:15:57 pm »

The power of the monargy in England and in Holland is ceremonial.
And that is good.
They have power in a ceremonial way. Today they represent the face of the nation.
Political power is in the hands of the government and parlement as it should.


Tell that last line to those livng in Russia, Syria, Venezuela, Turkey etc.

A government and its structure can often be as bad as the worst monarch because it pretends to be what it is through public support.

Think of those happy lands where opposition candidates are jailed and otherwise prevented from standing. Some free elections eh? where only the party in power is allowed to stand. Reminds me of Henry V and that line about sheathing their swords for lack of agument.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 04:19:01 pm by Rob C »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #887 on: August 30, 2019, 04:54:53 pm »


Tell that last line to those livng in Russia, Syria, Venezuela, Turkey etc.

A government and its structure can often be as bad as the worst monarch because it pretends to be what it is through public support.

Think of those happy lands where opposition candidates are jailed and otherwise prevented from standing. Some free elections eh? where only the party in power is allowed to stand. Reminds me of Henry V and that line about sheathing their swords for lack of agument.

Well, nothing's perfect.  But I don't think most people want to go back to monarchies. 

The problem with countries like Russia, Venezuela, etc  is that they don;t have a solid and respected constitution as America does that protects individual rights.  Also, America has separation of power between the Executive (President), Legislative (Congress) and the Judiciary, each with its own powers that are often in conflict with the other branches.  That helps keep power from accumulating in one branch.  That's unlike a parliamentary system where the executive and legislative are joined at the hip sometimes even having the judiciary connected as well. 

One additional check is if the branches are from different parties.  Some would say that creates divided government which creates gridlock.  Frankly, that;s good.  Making it hard to pass laws leaves the public more free to go about it's business without government interference and nosy bureaucrats.  We stay freer. 

Here's a good essay on the three branches of American government and checks and balances to limit governmental power.  A monarchy wouldn't and couldn't operate this way.

Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #888 on: August 30, 2019, 04:55:56 pm »

kers

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #889 on: August 31, 2019, 04:16:57 am »


Tell that last line to those livng in Russia, Syria, Venezuela, Turkey etc.

A government and its structure can often be as bad as the worst monarch because it pretends to be what it is through public support.

Think of those happy lands where opposition candidates are jailed and otherwise prevented from standing. Some free elections eh? where only the party in power is allowed to stand. Reminds me of Henry V and that line about sheathing their swords for lack of agument.
you are right,
I should have added- when this government and parlement is chosen in a truly democratic way
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jeremyrh

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #890 on: August 31, 2019, 06:31:36 am »

I'm afraid I edited the post to delete the attached image, Bart, and I have no way of knowing its source. I assure you that you would neither have liked it nor found it remotely amusing.

Jeremy

It’s from a Dutch national daily newspaper so to predict what Bart’s reaction would be with such certainty seems a mind-reading step too far.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #891 on: August 31, 2019, 10:06:04 pm »

A friend sent me this link to a short video seeking to explain why Brexiteers do not want a deal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBPZxbO7OLM&feature=youtu.be. Anything in it?
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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #892 on: September 01, 2019, 05:17:56 am »

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #893 on: September 01, 2019, 09:33:34 am »

A friend sent me this link to a short video seeking to explain why Brexiteers do not want a deal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBPZxbO7OLM&feature=youtu.be. Anything in it?

I stopped after 3 minutes. What a load of bollocks! (Is that what Brits would say?). Just a typical leftist ignorance. How LLJ (Little Leftie Johnny) imagines capitalism.

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #894 on: September 01, 2019, 09:54:30 am »

I stopped after 3 minutes. What a load of bollocks! (Is that what Brits would say?). Just a typical leftist ignorance. How LLJ (Little Leftie Johnny) imagines capitalism.

Yes, of course, there's a lot of that. And yet, the middle class has seen no increase in wealth since the 80s, and large rich corporations and wealthy individuals get away with not paying taxes because of shelters that were set up for them, probably lobbied for by them.

Remember how not taxing wealthy people was going to trickle down to everyone else. THAT's what I call a "load of bollocks." Forget the ideology and rhetoric, look at the data. Policies were put into place that favoured one group over others. It's not immigrants or the EU that caused those problems. And it's not Brexit that's going to fix them.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #895 on: September 01, 2019, 10:32:17 am »

I stopped after 3 minutes. What a load of bollocks! (Is that what Brits would say?). Just a typical leftist ignorance. How LLJ (Little Leftie Johnny) imagines capitalism.

Yeah you say that Slobo but it's odd that one of the main Brexiteers has just moved his money to Ireland.
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Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #896 on: September 01, 2019, 10:44:47 am »

This is a series of 10 short episodes (by photographer Martin Middlebrook) that clarified things a bit for me.
It's not by politicians or about them, but it is about what real people think and feel.

It's not only because of a (misplaced) sense of nostalgia by the older generations, also most migrant workers who had built a new life and contributed to society voted for a Brexit.

Martin Middlebrook’s Brexit Travelogue
https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/RC-017199/martin-middlebrook-s-brexit-travelogue/

I'm not sure whether it's geofenced for countries outside of Europe, I hope not.
All videos have a selection of different voiceover languages/subtitles.


It works, but I can't get rid of the French voice.

Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #897 on: September 01, 2019, 11:06:53 am »

Yes, of course, there's a lot of that. And yet, the middle class has seen no increase in wealth since the 80s, and large rich corporations and wealthy individuals get away with not paying taxes because of shelters that were set up for them, probably lobbied for by them.

Remember how not taxing wealthy people was going to trickle down to everyone else. THAT's what I call a "load of bollocks." Forget the ideology and rhetoric, look at the data. Policies were put into place that favoured one group over others. It's not immigrants or the EU that caused those problems. And it's not Brexit that's going to fix them.

I think higher taxes, loss of industries to foreign competitors, breakup of families due to divorce, single parent children, going off the gold standard, all were big contributors.  Car workers today make a lot less than they use too because of the severe competition from foreign car manufacturers.  That's just one example.  Lower and middle class social security, property taxes, sales taxes all are higher percent of total earnings.    There were no Medicare payments back then at all.  Children of unmarried parents went from 7% to 25%.  Divorce was barely as prevalent back then; due to split incomes after divorce between the parents, families are financially worse off; children are hurt psychologically and do worse in life. Inflation from 1970 to 1982 reduced the values of the dollar by 55%.  So savings and incomes take a big hit.  Of course, the rich don';t get hurt as much.  If you're worth 5 million and lose 40% you're still doing very well with 3 million.  Printing money to support government budgets have gone out of sight since we went of the gold standard.  1 trillion this year alone.  And the administration is Republican.  Now we have the Democrat clamoring for more spending - free college, free Medicare for all, $15 trillion for the climate, etc.  IF the greedy public votes for these "free" things, it's all going to come down in a heap. It doesn't bode well for the future.

Britain and Europe are up there too with deficit spending.  Don;t know off hand if it's better or worse that the USA. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #898 on: September 01, 2019, 11:23:34 am »


It works, but I can't get rid of the French voice.
I pressed on the little voice caption icon on the bottom to the left of the settings icon.  Then selected "Plurilingual (International)"

Rob C

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Re: Brexit Encore
« Reply #899 on: September 01, 2019, 12:49:35 pm »

I pressed on the little voice caption icon on the bottom to the left of the settings icon.  Then selected "Plurilingual (International)"

I eventually went onto Italian, and that worked okay until it didn't.

However, I got through it in the end, but what a hassle! The format of tiny segments sucks.

I like the man's photography, and note that he lives in Paris... :-)

Rob
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