Brexit Encore

[Alan Goldhammer]

The province of Quebec recently passed a law that forbids the wearing of religious symbols by anyone employed by the province. The criteria is quite wide in that it applies to teachers who are actually employed by school boards that are sanctioned by the provincial education department so the legislation does not strictly apply to only civil servant employees, i.e., those that work directly in government administration. I believe, for example, that is also applies to city bus drivers, for example, but I'm not 100% about that. One things it means is that Sikhs cannot work in some occupations, such as the police for example. That last one is odd because Sikhs are allowed in the federal RCMP force. Many have distinguished themselves in the military as well, but in Quebec, they need not apply for some jobs.

They worded it in a very general way but it is obviously directed at the wearing of head gear by muslim women. This is interesting in many ways.

The first and obvious one is the very notion that the government has the right to tell people how to dress. Personally speaking, in this vein I think they should outlaw hoodies on teenagers because it interferes with me picking them out of police line-ups.

The second is the timing. I wonder if they would have introduced this kind of regulation when Roman Catholic nuns still wore their old-style habits, as many of them were employed as teachers in Quebec parochial schools. This method of dress, moderation-plus, I'll call it, was pretty common among Victorian women as well. Presumably Amish women could not get jobs in the Quebec civil service, but they wisely opt out of modern society anyway.

A third way is the argument, made by my Moroccan muslim neighbour and others, is that the wearing of head gear is not a religious requirement or symbol anyway. It is only practitioners in some cultures that cover their heads, many muslim traditions do not require their women to cover their heads. So it's more and Arab or Pakistani thing than a muslim thing. This point of view may be controversial in the muslim community, for all I know.

We were in Montreal visiting friends last week and talked about this.  It also applies to the somewhat large Orthodox Jewish community where the men keep there head's covered.  I wondered whether it applied to the women some who wear scarves but most wear wigs (only the husband is supposed to see their natural hair).

[Alan Goldhammer]

The problem with wearing those head things etc. is touched upon perfectly in your reference to hoodies. I kinda remember some police forces in the UK tryng to get those outfits banned; did they succeed?

there clearly needs to be a ban on wearing baseball caps on backwards.  However, maybe looking stupid is enough of a punishment.

[Alan Klein]

We were in Montreal visiting friends last week and talked about this.  It also applies to the somewhat large Orthodox Jewish community where the men keep there head's covered.  I wondered whether it applied to the women some who wear scarves but most wear wigs (only the husband is supposed to see their natural hair).

You'll have to shave off your beard. 

[Robert Roaldi]

We were in Montreal visiting friends last week and talked about this.  It also applies to the somewhat large Orthodox Jewish community where the men keep there head's covered.  I wondered whether it applied to the women some who wear scarves but most wear wigs (only the husband is supposed to see their natural hair).

I'll talk to friends and family who still live there, see what they know, which may not be much yet. But I suspect that although the enabling legislation has passed, they probably haven't ironed out how to apply any resulting regulations.

Makes you wonder about things though. What if head scarves become a fashion thing generally? How would they differentiate between a woman wearing a hard scarf for religious reasons and those wearing them for fashion reasons.

Seems like a pandering overreaction. The only real need to act, it seems to me, was with respect to full facial coverings and passport photos or driving license photos, etc. How many people does that actually affect? That is to say, are people's sensibilities really disturbed because their kid's teacher is wearing a necklace with a crucifix on it?

And as Alan pointed out, is there a difference between a regular beard and a religious beard?

But the satirical site https://www.thebeaverton.com had this to say https://www.thebeaverton.com/2019/06/quebec-law-requires-all-circumcised-government-workers-to-wear-secular-foreskin-covers/.

[Alan Klein]

I'll talk to friends and family who still live there, see what they know, which may not be much yet. But I suspect that although the enabling legislation has passed, they probably haven't ironed out how to apply any resulting regulations.

Makes you wonder about things though. What if head scarves become a fashion thing generally? How would they differentiate between a woman wearing a hard scarf for religious reasons and those wearing them for fashion reasons.

Seems like a pandering overreaction. The only real need to act, it seems to me, was with respect to full facial coverings and passport photos or driving license photos, etc. How many people does that actually affect? That is to say, are people's sensibilities really disturbed because their kid's teacher is wearing a necklace with a crucifix on it?

And as Alan pointed out, is there a difference between a regular beard and a religious beard?

But the satirical site https://www.thebeaverton.com had this to say https://www.thebeaverton.com/2019/06/quebec-law-requires-all-circumcised-government-workers-to-wear-secular-foreskin-covers/.

We definitely need bathrooms for the covered separate from the uncovered.  You wouldn't want anyone to get scared when they're at a urinal. 

[Rob C]

What would happen if there is no Brexit deal with the EU?  After all, most countries in the world are not part of the EU.  Yet they successfully trade with them.  How would Britain be any different?

Back to your drawing board, Alan.

[Alan Klein]

Back to your drawing board, Alan.

I don;t understand your answer.  Could you clarify?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Rob,

Here is a solution for you (just check your Jewish heritage first):

"British Jews trace Iberian heritage to retain EU citizenship

Who might help Remainers keep EU passports? Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition"

https://www.economist.com/britain/2019/07/02/british-jews-trace-iberian-heritage-to-retain-eu-citizenship?cid1=cust/dailypicks/n/bl/n/2019072n/owned/n/n/dailypicks/n/n/NA/265671/n

A year before the Brexit referendum of 2016, Portugal and Spain passed laws which offered Sephardic Jews—those whose families once lived on the Iberian peninsula—a path to citizenship. Each country intended the gesture to act as recompense for the forcible exile of Jews in the 1490s, in one of the first acts of the Spanish Inquisition. But the two countries have unwittingly offered a lifeline for Remainers anxious to retain EU citizenship after Britain leaves the bloc

[Rob C]

Rob,

Here is a solution for you (just check your Jewish heritage first):

"British Jews trace Iberian heritage to retain EU citizenship

Who might help Remainers keep EU passports? Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition"

https://www.economist.com/britain/2019/07/02/british-jews-trace-iberian-heritage-to-retain-eu-citizenship?cid1=cust/dailypicks/n/bl/n/2019072n/owned/n/n/dailypicks/n/n/NA/265671/n

Hmmm... I don't think it would wash. I have sometimes wondered if I have Jewish connections somewhere, because the few comedians I enjoy are almost invariably Jewish, as with the photographers. My mother did spend part of her early life living in northern Spain, but as she was popped into a convent (which she hated; she once told me that there is no cruely as the cruelty women can inflict upon girls) for her education, it's unlikely I'll discover safety there! Anyway, it would all take so much time... think of the paperwork it could mean - especially in Spain!

[Alan Goldhammer]

If you are of German Jewish ancestry and can show that the family was forced to leave Germany after 1933 when Hitler came to power, the family is eligible for a German EU passport.  We have good friends who met this qualification and their daughter is now working in London without problem this way.  I don't know what the impact of Brexit will be and she should be OK as her husband is English.

[jeremyrh]

If you are of German Jewish ancestry and can show that the family was forced to leave Germany after 1933 when Hitler came to power, the family is eligible for a German EU passport.  We have good friends who met this qualification and their daughter is now working in London without problem this way.  I don't know what the impact of Brexit will be and she should be OK as her husband is English.

Hopefully she will be OK, but her husband's nationality does not necessarily help :-(

[Rob C]

Hopefully she will be OK, but her husband's nationality does not necessarily help :-(

Isn't that the entire point of bought marriages? A stranger from Pakistan (pick a preferred country) "marries" a Brit and thus attains British citizenship? It's a big business.

A proper marriage must be at least equally valid and bear similar political fruits.

Maybe the other Jeremy can fill us in on this matter? Note: this is not a consultation! ;-)

[jeremyrh]

Isn't that the entire point of bought marriages? A stranger from Pakistan (pick a preferred country) "marries" a Brit and thus attains British citizenship? It's a big business.

A proper marriage must be at least equally valid and bear similar political fruits.

Maybe the other Jeremy can fill us in on this matter? Note: this is not a consultation! ;-)

I don't think it works like that - you don't get citizenship based on marriage.

Correction - you can, eventually, but you have to meet a bunch of conditions first.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I don't think it works like that - you don't get citizenship based on marriage.

Are you saying you are for family separation at the border!?   

[john beardsworth]

If you are of German Jewish ancestry and can show that the family was forced to leave Germany after 1933 when Hitler came to power, the family is eligible for a German EU passport.  We have good friends who met this qualification and their daughter is now working in London without problem this way.  I don't know what the impact of Brexit will be and she should be OK as her husband is English.

The eligibility is unaffected by Brexit, but since the Brexit vote there have been reports of some Jewish people getting German passports so they can continue to work and live in Europe as they wish. Many people with Irish roots have done this.

[Alan Klein]

How will the new selected leaders of the EU affect Brexit and other things in Europe?  Will relations with America be different?  Will the EU shift policies?  Why does it matter that German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen is a self-proclaimed Federalist? 

Apparently, Merkel got who she wanted for Germany.  Is this just more of the same?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jC1I0kUJm0
 

[LesPalenik]

How will the new selected leaders of the EU affect Brexit and other things in Europe?  Will relations with America be different?  Will the EU shift policies?  Why does it matter that German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen is a self-proclaimed Federalist? 

Apparently, Merkel got who she wanted for Germany.  Is this just more of the same?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jC1I0kUJm0

Actually, what Merkel originally wanted, was Ursula von der Leyen's EU new position. Merkel was considered pretty much a shoe-in for that job and endorsed also by Jean-Claude Juncker, the previous Commission president, but in the last few weeks the situation has changed and von der Leyen was nominated instead. As to the relations with America, we know that Trump likes pretty women, so there is a good chance that he will start on the right foot with Ursula.

[Rob C]

How will the new selected leaders of the EU affect Brexit and other things in Europe?  Will relations with America be different?  Will the EU shift policies?  Why does it matter that German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen is a self-proclaimed Federalist? 

Apparently, Merkel got who she wanted for Germany.  Is this just more of the same?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jC1I0kUJm0

Unless you didn't notice, it happened some time ago when your new Pressy took over your country land of abode.

Whether or not changes will eventually filter the waters enough to restore faith and confidence in relationships, whether normal or special - whatever that may be - remains to be seen.

[Alan Klein]

Why does it matter that German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen is a self-proclaimed Federalist?  What does that mean and how does that effect what she will do in her new position?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Greeks have quickly come to their senses, after briefly toying with socialism:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-48902766