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Author Topic: The Changing Landscape  (Read 43897 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #480 on: March 16, 2019, 09:21:11 am »

Busy day, can someone write a quick summary of the conversation so far? ;)

Meandering between grammar and proctology  ;D

James Clark

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #481 on: March 16, 2019, 09:27:22 am »

Meandering between grammar and proctology  ;D

That’s funny 😄
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #482 on: March 16, 2019, 09:53:45 am »

I perhaps shouldn’t have said it.  OTOH, I don’t have a repeated pattern of posting nothing but insulting comments, and I did use it as as a descriptor of behavior, not a pointed personal insult.

Maybe splitting hairs, and I apologize to Jeremy and site ownership if it was out of bounds, but look at my posting history and that of the person I was speaking to, and come to your own conclusions. 

James, my friend, not “perhaps,” but definitely.

Perhaps being myself on the receiving end of PMs with similar characterization (mine was just more precise, with a reference to a circular part) made me desensitized toward the word, but it’s not cool to use it publicly. It is lamentable that more and more vulgarities are finding its way in public discourse, on TV, media, in politics, Congress even, but decent, reasonable, intelligent people should make every effort to refrain from it.

I don’t see anything in Jeff’s post that can be described as “a repeated pattern of posting nothing but insulting comments.” But even if there were, that doesn’t justify a personal attack, using a vulgarity. And no, saying “you act as an xyz,” for instance, is the same difference as “you are an xyz.”

Your admirable posting history, or anyone else’s, doesn’t come with bonus points that can be used for less admirable posts.

James Clark

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #483 on: March 16, 2019, 10:04:29 am »

James, my friend, not “perhaps,” but definitely.

Perhaps being myself on the receiving end of PMs with similar characterization (mine was just more precise, with a reference to a circular part) made me desensitized toward the word, but it’s not cool to use it publicly. It is lamentable that more and more vulgarities are finding its way in public discourse, on TV, media, in politics, Congress even, but decent, reasonable, intelligent people should make every effort to refrain from it.

I don’t see anything in Jeff’s post that can be described as “a repeated pattern of posting nothing but insulting comments.” But even if there were, that doesn’t justify a personal attack, using a vulgarity. And no, saying “you act as an xyz,” for instance, is the same difference as “you are an xyz.”

Your admirable posting history, or anyone else’s, doesn’t come with bonus points that can be used for less admirable posts.

Point taken.

I have a bit of personal experience with, and sympathy for, the changes Josh is dealing with as he tries to revamp the site, create content and deal with things like ad revenue changes, personnel , etc. and I feel that essentially stalking this thread and popping up with an insult whenever there’s an error is both in poor taste and counterproductive.

But point taken.
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josh.reichmann

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #484 on: March 16, 2019, 10:45:52 am »

^appreciated BTW.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 10:46:09 am by josh.reichmann »
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JeffS

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #485 on: March 16, 2019, 10:59:21 am »

Unacceptable abuse. Behave or be banned.

Jeremy

Help me understand. Presumably you read the post to which I responded.  So, would it have been more proper for me to instead have written “you’re acting more like a hemorrhoid”?  Seriously. I see no warning to James.

More importantly, my posts here (to which James implied I was an ass) were written as a long time subscriber (although infrequent commenter) concerned about the direction and future of the site. See my prior constructive recommendations about video content, etc.  I’ve been serious when I’ve recommended that Josh hire a copywriter or proofreader.  A professional site deserves no less.  Besides the written content, I think that the site requires a ‘face’, a strong personality to whom we can relate.  Michael was that.  Kevin was that. We’ve yet to see or hear from Josh other than in writing. I hope that’s not his strong suit.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:04:20 am by JeffS »
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James Clark

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #486 on: March 16, 2019, 11:26:42 am »

Help me understand. Presumably you read the post to which I responded.  So, would it have been more proper for me to instead have written “you’re acting more like a hemorrhoid”?  Seriously. I see no warning to James.

Jeff, I apologize.

Jeremy, consider me "warned." Assume I am properly contrite. 

All good?

More importantly, my posts here (to which James implied I was an ass) were written as a long time subscriber (although infrequent commenter) concerned about the direction and future of the site. See my prior constructive recommendations about video content, etc.  I’ve been serious when I’ve recommended that Josh hire a copywriter or proofreader.  A professional site deserves no less.  Besides the written content, I think that the site requires a ‘face’, a strong personality to whom we can relate.  Michael was that.  Kevin was that. We’ve yet to see or hear from Josh other than in writing.

All fair.  All can be delivered constructively without insult.

I hope that’s not his strong suit.

This is your problem, albeit admittedly milder here than in evidence elsewhere.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:34:59 am by James Clark »
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JeffS

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #487 on: March 16, 2019, 11:40:00 am »

Thanks, James.

My problem, indeed. I speak only for myself.  Others are free to agree or disagree, without being insulting.

Jeff
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 11:43:43 am by JeffS »
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #488 on: March 16, 2019, 01:51:19 pm »

It is lamentable that more and more vulgarities are finding its way in public discourse ...
I am shocked, Slobodan! The Grammar Gremlins are right this minute sending their posse to correct you!    :D
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #489 on: March 16, 2019, 01:59:35 pm »

Jeff, I apologize.

Jeremy, consider me "warned." Assume I am properly contrite. 


It may be a cultural matter. The word "ass" has no particularly offensive meaning in English English: it means either a donkey or someone behaving in a foolish manner. That, therefore is how I read it and, at least in part, why no admonition was forthcoming.

On reflection, it may be that you were using the word as what, in English English, would be rendered as "arse". Even that, in English English, would probably not warrant reproach, being so very mild as to be close to usable in polite company.

Perhaps in American English the tone is more insulting and less acceptable, in which case I welcome your contrition.

Haemorrhoid, on the other hand, is never acceptable, whether or not correctly spelled.

I hope that clarifies matters.

Jeremy
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #490 on: March 16, 2019, 02:00:51 pm »

More importantly, my posts here (to which James implied I was an ass) were written as a long time subscriber (although infrequent commenter) concerned about the direction and future of the site. See my prior constructive recommendations about video content, etc.  I’ve been serious when I’ve recommended that Josh hire a copywriter or proofreader.  A professional site deserves no less.  Besides the written content, I think that the site requires a ‘face’, a strong personality to whom we can relate.  Michael was that.  Kevin was that. We’ve yet to see or hear from Josh other than in writing. I hope that’s not his strong suit.

My role here extends only to moderating the forum. In my professional life, I am a stickler for good grammar and correct punctuation and prose which lacks either distresses me.

Jeremy
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LesPalenik

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #491 on: March 16, 2019, 02:04:33 pm »

Meandering between grammar and proctology  ;D

It's remarkable that nobody is attaching images on the said subject.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #492 on: March 16, 2019, 02:17:46 pm »

I am shocked, Slobodan! The Grammar Gremlins are right this minute sending their posse to correct you!    :D

Nothing compared to this: ;)

^aporeciayed BTW.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #493 on: March 16, 2019, 02:27:41 pm »

It may be a cultural matter. The word "ass" has no particularly offensive meaning in English English...

Amazing what one can learn in an international forum. Does that extend to down under? So when an Aussie sends me a PM and tells me I am an “aRsehole” I shall take it as a term of endearment?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #494 on: March 16, 2019, 02:46:03 pm »

I am shocked, Slobodan! The Grammar Gremlins are right this minute sending their posse to correct you!    :D

I assume, Eric, that “vulgarity” is a thing, not a person?

James Clark

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #495 on: March 16, 2019, 02:52:44 pm »

It's remarkable that nobody is attaching images on the said subject.

Here ya go.
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bjanes

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #496 on: March 16, 2019, 04:29:37 pm »

I assume, Eric, that “vulgarity” is a thing, not a person?

Slobodan,

The graphic you posted refers to American usage. In British English, collective nouns can take plural as well as singular verbs. In British sources I often see a plural verb used when referring to the actions or statements of a corporate entity. See here for an interesting discussion:

https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/09/05/agreement-over-collective-nouns/

Regards,

Bill
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #497 on: March 16, 2019, 05:10:22 pm »

I assume, Eric, that “vulgarity” is a thing, not a person?
Correct.
But "vulgarities" is plural, while "its" is singular (or should I have said, "vulgarities are plural?")

The good news is, this latest kerfuffle shows that people on LuLa don't all think the same!   :)
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #498 on: March 16, 2019, 05:15:01 pm »

People make mistakes.  Mistakes can be corrected, or left unattended.  Computers make mistakes/typos, etc., that are rarely corrected except by proof reading, then correcting.

As has been said, or at least alluded to, Josh is swamped trying to keep the ship afloat and chart a new, yet similar course as his father. Big shoes to fill, as though he doesn't already know this. From what I've seen, he seems willing to take council, to learn, but has no other choice but to move on.  And the direction and course he has charted is ambitious.

In so many ways, websites can become schools (as in school of LuLa, School of FM, etc.), and the work shown and discussed for the most part fits within that school or oeuvre, and also, for the most part rarely deviates.  It appears there is a "new school" taking form, now, under the hands of Michael's son.

I have learned over 50 years of mucking about in the art world that artists/artisans come in many forms of correctness/incorrectness and that in many cases people are handicapped in one way or another such as having dyslexia, bipolar disorder, some form of  physical or mental defect that gives rise to their artistic prowess. What we might think a weakness becomes their strength and eventually these perceived flaws become accepted, overlooked or literally stylized.  The world is full of superstar performers that have defects, and in many cases the defects don't define them, they propel them to unexpected heights. 

So I am less quick to judge, having multiple defects myself which I recognize now as character, even having had to overcome several issues, and leveraging others.

Mistakes have been made.  More will be made in the future.  Any one here thinking they can do a better job, might then, should go do that. Anyone devoid of error, might then, should offer help or support.

How could we not all benefit from a new direction from a volunteer committed to leading in a new direction?

When I wrote an article called Landscapes of the Mind I expected a lot of flack from many LuLa members who would be offended by an article dealing with a subject matter that wasn't strictly "Landscape Art". I think of this article as being more aligned with the new direction LuLa is taking than what it has always been. I was surprised that the article was well received and in some cases appreciated.

So though this thread is actually about a lot of insecurity, it is also about second guessing leadership, and little about appreciation for what Josh is doing and trying to do.

So I state unequivically that I am for what Josh is doing and support his quest for change, while at the same time appreciating the past direction and all that entailed.

Walk that mile in another person's shoes and see from a different perspective, perhaps, before criticizing....

Ciao -

Mark
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Rob C

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #499 on: March 16, 2019, 05:52:56 pm »

Mark, maybe it didn't strike you that many LuLanders don't have access to the zone where your missive was placed?

I, for one, currently do not and perhaps never again will. I could not access it just now through your link. I consider the thousands of posts I've bothered to write for LuLa more than make up for twelve bucks a year. If they don't, then why am I bothering at all?

This very perspective was mooted when the idea of making the site pay-for was first broached. Without the few people who regularly contribute something, this place would be dead. Come to think of it, many pros who posted great stuff have stopped posting images or given up completely. There is a difference, not such a subtle one, between sharing your work freely (as a pro) when nobody else is making money from it, and doing so when your supplied content becomes marketed as part of the site even though, technically, within the free zone of said site. You can't separate the two: those who come to see a particular person's images come for that chap's content, whether or not they pay to read some other stuff on the home page. That a site requires income is beyond dispute; the problem is sourcing that support wisely, and not by creating first- and second-class citizens.

Maybe LuLa is trying/planning to do too much and to be all things to all men. That has never worked.

Rob
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