Luminous Landscape Forum

Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: Rand47 on December 26, 2018, 01:40:19 am

Title: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on December 26, 2018, 01:40:19 am
Seems more like a landslide to me.  Something is very odd about this sudden, previously unannounced sea change.  Why no hint of this from Kevin or Chris?  No “introduction” of Josh by the existing crew?   Something is rotten in Denmark, me thinks.

Rand

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: EricPNG on December 26, 2018, 02:40:56 am
What a shock!
Please Kevin, a bit of explanation ?
Or at least a decent goodbye on lula...
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bns on December 26, 2018, 04:54:09 am
The tone of the son reminds me of that of the father. If I may: Welcome Josh!
Remaining curious.

Cheers,
Boudewijn Swanenburg
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on December 26, 2018, 06:02:33 am
Welcome Josh and I hope you all best for the future, but have I got the wrong end of the stick here or something? Which is something that I quite often seem to do.

But what the "Changing Landscape" article seems to be saying to me is, that Josh Reichmann (the son of Michael), has now taken over the Luminous-Landscape website and Kevin and Chris and possibly everyone else currently working for Lula, have been given their marching orders?

Now as Josh is the son of Michael and therefore the natural heir to the Lula throne as it were, then I more than happy to welcome him to take over his dad's work and the site as his birth given right, but the manner in which this appears to have happened so suddenly over Christmas, looks a little more like a putsch than a friendly widening of the the Lula family - I hope I am wrong and all is well and friendly in the Lula offices, but part of me wonders if on this occasion, my assumptions are indeed correct for once.

More info needed, before the rumours start to fly I think.

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Kevin Gallagher on December 26, 2018, 07:06:48 am
Welcome Josh and I hope you all best for the future, but have I got the wrong end of the stick here or something? Which is something that I quite often seem to do.

But what the "Changing Landscape" article seems to be saying to me is, that Josh Reichmann (the son of Michael), has now taken over the Luminous-Landscape website and Kevin and Chris and possibly everyone else currently working for Lula, have been given their marching orders?

Now as Josh is the son of Michael and therefore the natural heir to the Lula throne as it were, then I more than happy to welcome him to take over his dad's work and the site as his birth given right, but the manner in which this appears to have happened so suddenly over Christmas, looks a little more like a putsch than a friendly widening of the the Lula family - I hope I am wrong and all is well and friendly in the Lula offices, but part of me wonders if on this occasion, my assumptions are indeed correct for once.

 Dave, I must agree with you and Rand on this. Having been a participant on LULA almost since it's inception, this entire "transition", including the way it was handled stinks!

More info needed, before the rumours start to fly I think.

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: petermfiore on December 26, 2018, 07:33:16 am
What a shock!
Please Kevin, a bit of explanation ?
Or at least a decent goodbye on lula...
Eric,

Unless you were here as a member previously, how is this a shock? You have been a member since 3:55Am this very day. Unless you are someone we all know lying in the weeds.

Peter

Welcome Josh. Look forward to new things.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: vjbelle on December 26, 2018, 07:43:50 am
I found the title to be a little odd and the fact that there is no mention of any of the current staff to be somewhat telling. 

I don't mind change as I find that change can sometimes be very positive. 

Time will tell.....

Victor
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: degrub on December 26, 2018, 08:23:24 am
Welcome Josh and I hope you all best for the future, but have I got the wrong end of the stick here or something? Which is something that I quite often seem to do.

But what the "Changing Landscape" article seems to be saying to me is, that Josh Reichmann (the son of Michael), has now taken over the Luminous-Landscape website and Kevin and Chris and possibly everyone else currently working for Lula, have been given their marching orders?

Now as Josh is the son of Michael and therefore the natural heir to the Lula throne as it were, then I more than happy to welcome him to take over his dad's work and the site as his birth given right, but the manner in which this appears to have happened so suddenly over Christmas, looks a little more like a putsch than a friendly widening of the the Lula family - I hope I am wrong and all is well and friendly in the Lula offices, but part of me wonders if on this occasion, my assumptions are indeed correct for once.

More info needed, before the rumours start to fly I think.

Dave

A brash introduction at the very least.
I wonder what the seasoning of youth will be ?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on December 26, 2018, 08:50:21 am
Welcome indeed Josh - I knew your father very slightly but like many of those who have read, followed and been informed, educated and inspired by Lula over the years I felt that I got to know, like and respect him through the tone and style of his writings and his gentle but firm leadership of this site.
I, for one, wish you the very best of luck in your leadership of the site that so many of us value - many of us will watch with supportive, though not uncritical, interest and close attention.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on December 26, 2018, 09:33:38 am
I will not address the change for the website other than to say that I wish Josh & Irene the best.

Personally, I felt that with the end of Kevin’s tenure as CEO and Publisher, I was provided an appropriate moment to also depart. It is time for a new generation to take over.

Chris
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on December 26, 2018, 09:35:49 am
Welcome indeed Josh - I knew your father very slightly but like many of those who have read, followed and been informed, educated and inspired by Lula over the years I felt that I got to know, like and respect him through the tone and style of his writings and his gentle but firm leadership of this site.
I, for one, wish you the very best of luck in your leadership of the site that so many of us value - many of us will watch with supportive, though not uncritical, interest and close attention.

A none too surprising development given the lack of feedback on site issues over the last few weeks.

That said, I look forward to the new stewardship in the hands of Michael's son, Josh.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 26, 2018, 09:42:14 am
I will not address the change for the website other than to say that I wish Josh & Irene the best.

Personally, I felt that with the end of Kevin’s tenure as CEO and Publisher, I was provided an appropriate moment to also depart. It is time for a new generation to take over.

Chris


Well, goodbye Chris, and thanks for the very good work that you put in over the years. You, at least, will be missed by many, as is Michael.

I heard this a day or two ago, but for the life of me can't think where: "There is no good time to get fired, but there is always a good time to resign."

I wish I'd heard that quotation before one major, very upsetting episode in my pro life!

Happy New Year, and hasta la vista!

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 26, 2018, 09:51:21 am
Eric,

Unless you were here as a member previously, how is this a shock? You have been a member since 3:55Am this very day. Unless you are someone we all know lying in the weeds.

Peter

Welcome Josh. Look forward to new things.


Yes, indeed!

Regarding Josh - it feels kinds strange welcoming somebody to his own (apparently) website, but in the best traditions of mankind, welcome anyway, and let's hope you can make a go of it.

If there's one thing I know, it's that it's personality that drives things along, and in your first "statement" I must say that I liked the verbal images you painted about walking with Michael. Imagery comes in many forms.

Happy New Year, and good luck with this new departure.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on December 26, 2018, 09:58:17 am

Well, goodbye Chris, and thanks for the very good work that you put in over the years. You, at least, will be missed by many, as is Michael....

Happy New Year, and hasta la vista!

Rob

Thank you Rob. I will continue to look in here often and contribute as I can.

Chris
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: petermfiore on December 26, 2018, 10:28:16 am
Thank you Rob. I will continue to look in here often and contribute as I can.

Chris

Oh Chris,

I learned quite a bit of video from you. I’ve always been a jump right in kind of guy when learning all new media.
I knew you were there whenever I screwed up.
Thanks,
Peter
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 26, 2018, 10:43:38 am
As an occasionally contributing writer, I am curious as to whether my contributions will remain welcome?

I see that I am still able to log in as an author, but of course shan't be touching anything without some further guidance.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 26, 2018, 10:52:15 am
Kevin, Chris,

Are you able to speak to the status of your roles with the Luminous Endowment? This enterprise appears to be a legally distinct entity, with no connection to the Reichmann family, but I assume that, if nothing else, courtesy would demand some ongoing relationship with LuLa?

As I've indicated behind the scenes as well as in front of them: While I was dubious about the Endowment at the start, I am now an unabashed booster of it as one of the best cash-granting programs out there. I would very much like to see it carry on, and for it to be tremendously successful.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KenTanaka on December 26, 2018, 11:00:35 am
I am neither a very active member here (although I’ve visited LuLa since the beginning) nor a fan of scenic landscape photography.  But as someone who has benefited from, and been entertained by, the content here at LuLa I do feel I owe many thanks to Chris Sanderson for his many years behind the camera of some of the most informative and entertaining photography videos I’ve ever watched.   (Not to mention the probably countless other behind-the-scenes efforts he contributed here!). I also owe thanks to the ever-enthusiastic Kevin who has held the reigns to keep this site on the road.  Thank you Kevin!

Change is normal.  This change seems jarring to me but that’s normal, too.  I don’t know anything about its backstory, nor am I really interested in knowing it.  Honestly, I didn’t even know Michael had a son (!) but I welcome Josh and wish him the best as he takes over the family business.  (The images you included in your introduction suggest you have a good eye for interesting scenes!) 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: stamper on December 26, 2018, 11:06:04 am
 The members should be more optimistic? Change can be  good and a few months and patience will be needed? ;D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on December 26, 2018, 11:13:35 am
Are you able to speak to the status of your roles with the Luminous Endowment?
Our roles within the Luminous Endowment remain unchanged.

However, the Endowment faces a severe shortage of funding for grants. This will be addressed in an upcoming Board meeting. I cannot be certain what changes, if any, will be forthcoming. We hope to be able to re-open some grants in 2019. The Endowment website continues to operate and any news about the re-opening of grants or other will be announced there and also on this Forum.

Chris
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 26, 2018, 11:21:03 am
Thanks, Chris. Good luck with the endowment! I fervently hope that some funding floodgates open, the endowment deserves it and has proven its worth.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on December 26, 2018, 11:34:08 am
The members should be more optimistic? Change can be  good and a few months and patience will be needed? ;D

In one sense, I agree re optimism.  But if the ham-fisted way this “transition” was dropped from the sky in the dark of night is any indication, we’re not off to a great start.

Rand
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Robert Roaldi on December 26, 2018, 11:37:52 am
In one sense, I agree re optimism.  But if the ham-fisted way this “transition” was dropped from the sky in the dark of night is any indication, we’re not off to a great start.

Rand

I don't agree that it was ham-fisted. The readers and contributors to this site are not automatically entitled to know about the internal dealings of the site's management.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Kevin Raber on December 26, 2018, 11:42:47 am
On behalf of Debra and I, we want to wish Josh and Irene the best with Luminous-Landscape.

I would like to thank all the loyal readers and members of the Luminous-Landscape family for your support over the last five years. 

We are onto new endeavors. Stay tuned. All is well.

As mentioned you can follow us on Rockhopperworkshops.com (http://rockhopperworkshops.com) and for any of those who would like to stay in touch you can email me at kwr@rabereyes.com
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 26, 2018, 01:33:40 pm
Is Michael Durr staying on with LuLa, or is he also being given the opportunity to move on to greener pastures?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rado on December 26, 2018, 02:06:45 pm
This is certainly unexpected. Who's going to produce the content now? I want to see more of the Shooting with the masters series and Chris and Kevin did an excellent job there. Thanks for all your hard work and dedication guys.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Kevin Raber on December 26, 2018, 02:11:23 pm
Michael Durr will be staying with me.  We have some projects planned that will be fun to do.   
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on December 26, 2018, 02:27:42 pm
Personally, I felt that with the end of Kevin’s tenure as CEO and Publisher, I was provided an appropriate moment to also depart. It is time for a new generation to take over.

Chris

Chris, there are/were only two cornerstones to Lula and that was Michael in front of the camera doing his thing and you behind it doing yours, a dream team you could say and that added up to much more than the sum of its parts. So to find out now that you are leaving your role within Lula so abruptly, is very sad indeed and so I suppose all there is to say now, is that I wish you all the best for the future my friend and I am really, really sad to see you go, as the old place will never be the same without you  :(

Kevin, I will also be very sad to see you go as well, as you did have a style that was different from what we were all used to and yet you were willing to jump in with both feet and pick up the reins so to speak and just get on with it. Then just when you seemed to be getting the hang of it and coming up with ever more interesting content, this happens. But I feel you are the type of person who will never give up and will make a success of whatever you choose to do in the future.

A fond farewell to you both  :(

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 26, 2018, 02:51:24 pm
The elephant in the room, it seems to me, is that Josh did not extend any thanks to Kevin for his contributions (unlike for Chris), only well wishes for future endeavors.  It comes across to me as a pure snub, intentional or not.  Whatever  the circumstances, this was not good form.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 26, 2018, 02:54:32 pm
The cleanest way to signal an amicable and orderly transition is to have the former CEO write the piece, give the speech, whatever. Josh is not a professional corporate executive, however, and it is perfectly reasonable that he did not know this.

This definitely feels like a Christmas of the Long Knives, but given that Kevin and Chris are not acting like the recently executed, I am willing to extend the benefit of the doubt!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 26, 2018, 03:22:36 pm
The elephant in the room, it seems to me, is that Josh did not extend any thanks to Kevin for his contributions (unlike for Chris), only well wishes for future endeavors.  It comes across to me as a pure snub, intentional or not.  Whatever  the circumstances, this was not good form.

Jeff


Well, Jeff, some see elephants everywhere. I spent much of my life researching pink ones, but all I managed to do was enjoy gallons of Viña Sol and Gordon's (not in the same glass) in my studies.

If there are going to be changes, then the end of a year seems rather a good time for making them, don't you think?

:-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: petermfiore on December 26, 2018, 03:29:32 pm

Well, Jeff, some see elephants everywhere. I spent much of my life researching pink ones, but all I managed to do was enjoy gallons of Viña Sol and Gordon's (not in the same glass) in my studies.

If there are going to be changes, then the end of a year seems rather a good time for making them, don't you think?

:-)

The end of the year is the perfect window of opportunity.

Peter
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 26, 2018, 03:55:04 pm
And a good time to be gracious, too.  ;)

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 26, 2018, 04:12:31 pm
And a good time to be gracious, too.  ;)

Jeff


Jeff, we are probably talking business, not elephants.

Business is business, and as everybody that has been involved in running one already knows, there is never time for grace in execution, other than, I believe, in the state pen. There is always time, though, for sending in invoices and even more in waiting for them to be paid. Used to be three months from month of invoice in the ad. business in the UK. It always went up my nose, thinking of those multi-million quid agencies using me to finance their customer relationships.

Being Goliath obviously had its upside, too.

:-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on December 26, 2018, 04:43:14 pm

Jeff, we are probably talking business, not elephants.

Business is business, and as everybody that has been involved in running one already knows, there is never time for grace in execution, other than, I believe, in the state pen. There is always time, though, for sending in invoices and even more in waiting for them to be paid. Used to be three months from month of invoice in the ad. business in the UK. It always went up my nose, thinking of those multi-million quid agencies using me to finance their customer relationships.

Being Goliath obviously had its upside, too.

:-)

That wouldn't be the only thing going up the nose in the advertising business.

;-) 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 26, 2018, 04:52:41 pm
... given that Kevin and Chris are not acting like the recently executed...

Because they are acting like gentlemen.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on December 26, 2018, 04:54:13 pm
Good luck to the newby who will be running the show and a hearty thanks to those who will be departing.  The bottom line for me has always been the forums and those that have contributed over the years on a myriad of technical and not so technical issues.  If the forum ceases to exist, LuLa ceases to exist at least in my view.

I'm sad that we won't see Kevin's review of the new Nikon Z camera.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: thebatman on December 26, 2018, 05:21:50 pm
Sad news indeed, and surprising.

A fond farewell to Chris, who did so much behind the camera and, I suspect, behind the scenes to keep things running.

And a grateful thanks to Kevin: stepping into Michael’s place could not have been easy. What cannot be denied is your good nature and your tireless enthusiam for photography. Your love of the craft came through in every video and article ... even if not every camera was a DP Quattro Pro :)

Ken
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bobtowery on December 26, 2018, 05:27:13 pm
Best of luck to everyone involved. When one door closes, another opens.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: EricPNG on December 26, 2018, 05:36:53 pm
Eric,

Unless you were here as a member previously, how is this a shock? You have been a member since 3:55Am this very day. Unless you are someone we all know lying in the weeds.

Peter

Welcome Josh. Look forward to new things.
Peter,

I am a reader of luminous landscape since many years. And I am not a forum publisher, as I often think I have nothing really interesting to say.
This morning I wanted to share that Kevin is a great guy and a great photographer. And I think he deserves a decent goodbye.
No offense to anybody, I hope...
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jed best on December 26, 2018, 06:02:04 pm
I do not know Josh so I will reserve judgment on his potential stewardship. However, I have know Kevin and Chris since the very first Antarctic Expedition that Michael ran. We were all on the ship together and I got to know these two gentlemen as well as Michael pretty well. Kevin and Chris have kept Michael's flame blazing since his passing and to find out today and in the manner in which it was announced is clearly unsatisfactory.

I personally wish Kevin and Chris great success in whatever they choose to do.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Stephen Starkman on December 26, 2018, 06:29:53 pm
I second what Jed said above. I too was on that first Antarctica trip in 2005 with Michael, Chris, Kevin and Jed. It was unforgettable, and so full of character and wonder. All the best to the outgoing folks - Chris, Kevin, thank you for the years of work both with Michael and subsequent to his passing.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on December 26, 2018, 06:31:31 pm
Like everybody else, I will miss Chris and Kevin dearly, and I wish them both the very best in the future.
I look forward eagerly to see what Josh can bring to LuLa.
May Michael's spirit continue to guide us all!

-Eric
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 26, 2018, 07:00:48 pm
Watching a Netflix series "Bad Blood," about a Canadian mafia clan. When the mafia boss goes to prison, his son tries to take over leadership from a loyal lieutenant, based on his birth right, with disastrous consequences.

Any similarity with the current events is totally coincidental  ;)

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jacob Buchowski on December 26, 2018, 07:19:42 pm
Although I have not contributed much to this forum, I was a subscriber to LLVJ since the near beginning and have been a frequent visitor to the website for ~15 years. I wanted to take this opportunity to thank Chris for the work he has put in. Chris, even though you were mostly behind the scenes, you have had a tremendous impact on my evolution as a photographer. Kevin, I also wanted to thank you for all you’ve done since taking over this site. The transition could not have been easy and I appreciate all you have done. Good luck to both of you in your future endeavors.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 26, 2018, 07:30:39 pm
Sad news indeed, and surprising.

A fond farewell to Chris, who did so much behind the camera and, I suspect, behind the scenes to keep things running.

Allow me to second that. I know that keeping an operation running smoothly (mostly out of the limelight), without claiming one's personal role too overtly (or at all), is the sign of true class. Chris, much appreciated. For what it's worth, you've certainly been noticed for your restraint in moderating (which often has been tested), and your production craftsmanship!

Quote
And a grateful thanks to Kevin: stepping into Michael’s place could not have been easy. What cannot be denied is your good nature and your tireless enthusiam for photography. Your love of the craft came through in every video and article ... even if not every camera was a DP Quattro Pro :)

I agree (although not about the Quattro ;)). It would have been hard to fill Michael's shoes for anybody, but Kevin gave it his áll. That much can be said.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 26, 2018, 07:42:21 pm
Watching a Netflix series "Bad Blood," about a Canadian mafia clan. When the mafia boss goes to prison, his son tries to take over leadership from a loyal lieutenant, based on his birth right, with disastrous consequences.

Any similarity with the current events is totally coincidental  ;)

Hi Slobodan,

Although your style of humor requires an at times significant level of restraint, do consider if (in the absence of Chris') you're just trying to test Josh's, or not ... ;)

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 26, 2018, 07:46:43 pm
...do consider...

I did.

My style of humor matches nicely the subtlety of the coup d’etat style ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 26, 2018, 08:36:07 pm
I did.

My style of humor matches nicely the subtlety of the coup d’etat style ;)

Maybe, maybe not ...

It is all relative, as Albert Einstein (who knows) might have proposed.
It depends on one's frame of reference.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LarsR on December 26, 2018, 09:32:14 pm
I wish Josh and everyone coming on board the best and am looking forward to the changes that are coming to the site, especially "an enhanced mobile-friendly site and forum." I think it's exciting that the next generation is taking up the reins. I just hope that Kevin will continue to produce content, if it's not here, then somewhere else. I've really enjoyed and learned from your articles and more recently videos over the past few years. Will "On the Rocks" (or something similar) continue? You were just starting to build an audience, and the chemistry (not just the ethanol) between the panel members was great! Thank you.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: irene.cortes on December 27, 2018, 12:04:30 am
Thank you, Chris and Kevin, for these good wishes, and for guiding us through this transition. We are also very grateful to the contributors and authors on the site - all of whom we plan to remain in collaboration.

Our only intention is to honour this prodigious production by learning from those who have come before us, continue the legacy and to enhance its experience for you - the LuLa community - and a future cohort.  I’m personally excited to bring my experience and passion for technology to the site and look forward to building state-of-the-art content, delivering the quality curriculum LuLa is renowned.

Please feel free to reach out with any questions, requests, or photography-related news you’d like to share. We want to get more of you hidden Masters of the forum onto the site!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on December 27, 2018, 12:07:19 am
Thanks all for the well-wishes and welcoming! I’m truly grateful and honored to be here. There is much to say and respond to. I can't add any details about this transition, and if it seems shocking or inelegant please trust that LULA's continued vitality has been our priority. We are exceedingly excited to step into this opportunity to offer our voices to the community. I view the forum as a beast working in concert with the content to make this site what it is for the photographic community- a true home where photographers can learn, commune and grow.

Some questions answered:

Yes, authors and writers will absolutely continue on and we will be in touch, please feel free to reach out.

What will happen?

In the coming months, we will introduce a new batch of professional photographers, writers, gear reviewers, and just as importantly, new formats for presentation.

Some examples:
 
-     Photographer’s profiles with a consistent set of questions - 15 &15 (fifteen questions and fifteen images). This is open to submissions or elections (starting now). Those working in the field with a unique vision are the focus.

 -   Filmed podcast interviews - “We Just Clicked”. This will be me interviewing professional photographers about a life of pictures. I'm funny. It'll be informative....and funny.

 -    Monthly editorial investigations on innovative processes - with an emerging tech angle (ie. unique rigs; customized Camera/Computer setups) Suggestions welcome in this sphere as well.

 -    On-going field testing of new gear in activated contexts. Because content can be generated so quickly now, we will remain agile and post more frequently. The age of information is not slowing down.

 -    Explorations into the artist’s eye. The act of seeing beyond the gear or the goal; the intention and spirit of perception itself. This is where I’ll offer my experience as a meditation teacher.

We have been constantly conjuring and there is much to reveal.

Thank you all again!


Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Manoli on December 27, 2018, 04:40:21 am
There is much to say and respond to. I can't add any details about this transition, and if it seems shocking or inelegant please trust that LULA's continued vitality has been our priority.

Sounds to me, as in those old cowboy movies, the cavalry have arrived and just in time.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on December 27, 2018, 06:12:01 am
Josh,

If you want my advice (for what it is worth and I also realise you will probably be drowning in supposedly 'good' advice at the moment), then by all means try to instil a freshness to the site, but at the same time do also try to remember how your father built up this community (for that is what it has become), by doing what he did with Chris by his side for so many years, such as the series of much loved LLVJ's that were shot in interesting locations around the world, high end product reviews and discussing in-depth photography related techniques etc., and of course the forum.

As it is these core elements of the Lula site that brought us all here in the first place, so my advise would be that you do not change these fundamentals too much from what your dad created, but perhaps add a new layer or two on top of them. That way you keep all us old members happy and coming back for more, as well as hopefully bringing in lots of new members at the same time.

The internet is awash with photographic review sites these days, but Lula is and always has been different and head and shoulders above the rest, so I would hope this continues for many years into the future and it doesn't just turn into 'another' general on-line photographic magazine type of site.

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on December 27, 2018, 06:29:49 am
Thank you Dave,

Appreciated.

Your advice sits perfectly with our goals. The balance you suggest is exactly what we wish to create. If it ain't broke....
I'm acutely aware that watering LuLa down into some generalized space pandering to all and no one would be silly and that review "sites" or channels are now manifold and partially redundant. It is the unique blend of analysis, how to, college-level curriculum, locations (!) and personality which buoys the site. We will be adding new features and certainly, my tone will differ. More contemporary artists and makers, a look at DOP's (I'm in film) and said tech angles will add something which I think fits nicely.
In any event, I'm aware that we can't please everyone and I'll be simultaneously offering something fresh which may test the boundaries here. But... gently at first.

Best,

Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 27, 2018, 08:54:21 am
Thank you Dave,

Appreciated.

Your advice sits perfectly with our goals. The balance you suggest is exactly what we wish to create. If it ain't broke....
I'm acutely aware that watering LuLa down into some generalized space pandering to all and no one would be silly and that review "sites" or channels are now manifold and partially redundant. It is the unique blend of analysis, how to, college-level curriculum, locations (!) and personality which buoys the site. We will be adding new features and certainly, my tone will differ. More contemporary artists and makers, a look at DOP's (I'm in film) and said tech angles will add something which I think fits nicely.
In any event, I'm aware that we can't please everyone and I'll be simultaneously offering something fresh which may test the boundaries here. But... gently at first.

Best,

Josh


Everyone's experience differs, of course, but for myself, there have been two main attractions to LuLa:

1. This is a wonderful resource of pretty expert advice regarding digital processing, and before you get to that, setting up monitors and calibrating the things. Help of this type from this site was very much required, in my case, because I live outwith any sort of tech. community where personal advice is possible. Digital came at a time that pretty much coincided with my retiring from the pro photographic life;

2. I have come across some very good photographers and seen some really interesting photography here. Where I do feel a bit disappointed, is in the way that photographer interviews/articles are formatted: the focus appears to be on how-to stuff, and this leaves me pretty cold. My interest is in the people, how they decided to do what they did, what drove them to embrace the career etc. - you can see photographs in a zillion places, but you can't get into the souls of those people so easily, and that's where I always felt LuLa could excel, but seldom seemed to want to go.

Maybe you have that entrée. I hope!

Good luck in keeping all the different balls up in the air!

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 27, 2018, 09:27:45 am
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: AlexG on December 27, 2018, 10:06:40 am
I just found out of the changes taking place at Lula. I am somewhat shocked the way it came about. I am also certain that came for a reason. I have mixed fealings and hope for the best!

I have been a reader from the very beginning to include all the LLVJ since #1. Most of my matured photography learning I owe it to Lula and a few books...

I wish Chris and Kevin all the best on whatever endeavors they will continue. One sad thing is that I intended to visit Lula personally as I live in the Indy area. I wonder if Lula will remain in Indy or move to a different area?

Josh, I can only wish you good luck and all the best carring the continuity of Lula. You are stepping in some big shoes...

Happy new year to everyone.

Alejandro
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on December 27, 2018, 11:31:08 am
Thank you Rob C

This:

Quote
the focus appears to be on how-to stuff, and this leaves me pretty cold. My interest is in the people, how they decided to do what they did, what drove them to embrace the career etc. - you can see photographs in a zillion places, but you can't get into the souls of those people so easily, and that's where I always felt LuLa could excel, but seldom seemed to want to go.

What you mention here is perhaps my main inspiration for what I can personally bring to LULA. I agree, windows into one's experience and the photographer's impetus to create are paramount! Interviews and psychological /personal investigations into the artist's POV's are very high on the list and are in production right now.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: kerkula on December 27, 2018, 12:03:20 pm
Welcome Josh,  It must be an honor stepping into your father's shoes; I wish you well.  Like others, I am saddened and puzzled by the sudden departures of Kevin and Chris.  I can only assume you did not part ways on the friendliest of terms.  My wish for the new year is that this site which has meant so much to me, will continue to educate and inspire.
Best, David
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: David Mantripp on December 27, 2018, 12:29:17 pm
Thank you Rob C

This:

What you mention here is perhaps my main inspiration for what I can personally bring to LULA. I agree, windows into one's experience and the photographer's impetus to create are paramount! Interviews and psychological /personal investigations into the artist's POV's are very high on the list and are in production right now.

This is probably going to sound harsh, but if you do have so much to bring ... er, well then where have you been all these years?   My opinion fwiw is that Lula was/is stagnating. The forum is useful but the content is largely reheated same old same old, just without the spark that Michael would bring to it.  Lula is largely a site run by old men for old men (and I'm certainly in that category), and as such it was heading for a cliff.  Maybe you can change course, but I have to say, it all seems strangely abrupt, and in particular unnecessarily so towards Kevin.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 27, 2018, 12:32:42 pm
InstaLuLa™️, anyone?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on December 27, 2018, 01:29:16 pm
Quote
but if you do have so much to bring ... er, well then where have you been all these years?   My opinion fwiw is that Lula was/is stagnating. The forum is useful but the content is largely reheated same old same old, just without the spark that Michael would bring to it.  Lula is largely a site run by old men for old men (and I'm certainly in that category), and as such it was heading for a cliff.  Maybe you can change course, but I have to say, it all seems strangely abrupt, and in particular unnecessarily so towards Kevin.

Thanks, David.

I cannot comment further on the timing of this transition or how this may reflect on Kevin other than to reiterate my gratitude to him for his contribution to content and his consistent hard work in delivering it. Truly.

The opportunity for me to do all that I'm suggesting (with a lot of help) was just not present - Until now - From a professional and personal POV, this was the time when it was both inevitable and desirable that I step to the plate. I'm very energized but also realistic. It will take a little time, and much teamwork (including that of the animated forum contributors) to execute all that I hope for while maintaining and stewarding the best of the site.

J

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on December 27, 2018, 01:30:58 pm
InstaLuLa™️, anyone?
I've already seen five cases of Trademark infringement.  you better get your attorneys busy on this.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on December 27, 2018, 02:24:28 pm
Quote
I will not address the change for the website other than to say that I wish Josh & Irene the best.

I see that Irene has made a post, following Chris' post quoted above.  But at the risk of sounding rude, who the heck is Irene?  No introduction, no bio, no nothing.

Despite my opening post of chagrin about the "out of the blue" sea change here, I'm not normally pessimistic nor nit-picky. But I was in senior leadership of a large organization long enough to smell political rhetoric when I hear (read) it.  And subsequent comments about "not being able to provide any details about the transition" is mere double talk.  What you mean is that you're not willing to provide any details.  Fair enough.  Apparently you have the authority to do what you've done.  No one is questioning that, so far.  But to say you "can't" when you mean you "won't" is just double talk.  So a good start would be to just say what you actually mean, and don't treat the members here as idiots.

And, I do actually wish you the best.  LULA is an important part of my photography life.  That's one of the reasons this poorly conceived, out of the blue, "transition" has me a bit fired up.  I'd love to see it thrive and maintain its quality.  Kevin's "Masters" series featuring Charles Cramer is exactly the kind of meaningful, thorough, content that makes this place worth the time investment. 

Rand

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 27, 2018, 02:33:14 pm
This is probably going to sound harsh, but if you do have so much to bring ... er, well then where have you been all these years?   My opinion fwiw is that Lula was/is stagnating. The forum is useful but the content is largely reheated same old same old, just without the spark that Michael would bring to it.  Lula is largely a site run by old men for old men (and I'm certainly in that category), and as such it was e been possibleheading for a cliff.  Maybe you can change course, but I have to say, it all seems strangely abrupt, and in particular unnecessarily so towards Kevin.


The problem with all of this type of comment is that it's based on knowing not a lot about the details of the given situation.

How do you, or anyone else, for that matter, know what might or might not have been possible or even permissible a few weeks or months ago? David Mantripp mentions feeling that LuLa was stagnating recently, that it is a site by old men for old men. Well, that's an interesting observation.

Any site with traffic becomes, should it survive, peopled by a set of faithfulls. Over the years, unless something radically bad hits them or the site, there's little reason to leave, so the years automatically tick past and youth turns into maturity, and in the case of LuLa, daily habit straight after breakfast. Don't forget that we are on about photography here. It's a very simple artform, and as better people than I have claimed, all you need in order to become a photographer is to be able to RTFM that came with the camera. The rest, the kind of photographer you might become, unfortunately, is up to the space between your ears, and I'm using "your" in the sense of one's, not aiming at any individual. Beyond being a photographer, you now also have to become good at using electronic devices, which for myself, at least, is totally against my nature. Hence, the debt that I feel I owe some individuals here who guided me through uncharted electronic routes whose layout I could find on no map. So don't forget that since photography ain't rocket science, there never will be much worth reading to write about it, but there sure will be a lot to learn about the great guys who work(ed) at it all their life and became big names.

So, the old gang gets to know who and what it is, who is worth the involvement and whom to avoid at all costs. Newcomers, as I once was, have to navigate on their own and make that same call too.

Now we face the situation where we know what we need to know to retain a peaceful coexistence here, and conversation meanders back and forth, on or off any particular topic, which can drive some people nuts, but keep others interested because in that way, conversation more resembles reality where most folks I know chat without a script. Especially in the rare event of some pretty woman walking past. And here, as in the local bar, it's the conversation and the people you get to know that differentiates the bar you use from the one you ignore on your way to your favourite.

But what new content can any site offer if new is the only attraction or lure? That's why the rest of the photo world tends to get bogged down in pandering to those with GAS by running endless reviews. After a while, some come to realise that cameras have increasingly less to do with their photography than ever, that the spark, the impetus required to keep on truckin' with this thing is not external at all, that it's all about self-understanding and coming to some firm conclusions about what it was about photography that pushed you to get into it. Inevitably, you conclude that any old camera, as long as it works as it should, will be all you need, and a couple of focal lengths the most you find yourself wanting to use once you know your interests properly. Few of us really are or want to be jacks of all trades.

That happy minimalism, taken to the public extreme, would soon lead to a vanishing act from the advertisers, and if they are the main financial support, then as with any pro enterprise, you gotta give 'em what they want, which will be reviews, the more glowing the better. That will render much of a website irrelevant to some of the older guys who have reached equipment sufficiency quite some time ago.

So what can you offer the older membership to retain its interest? It's not going to be reviews, and enthusiastic self-promotion pieces from people selling this, that or the other course are also going to soar with the mice. What the hell do people want? I've already outlined in an earlier post what I'd like to see here, but then I come from being a pro, so my interests are obviously going to be in learning more about the people that I admire, not so much how they light something or which cameras they might use.

Of course, the biggie here, is probably the facility for posting images.

You can do that seeking comment as you can specifically where you are pretty much guaranteed not to become victim of second-guessing games and experts.

To wind up, maybe the best thing LuLa can do is hope that its own membership take some active responsibility and post more. Complaining, but keeping a very low profile in other directions seems a bit daft and unreasonable, too. Don't forget that it takes input to create conversation. Conversation is as interesting as the material you put into it - it's really all of your own making.

Rob

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on December 27, 2018, 04:03:40 pm
It was a year or two before I realised there was life here beyond the Forum which remains my primary, solitary even, reason for being here at all. It is a most engaging reason and long may it last.

Perhaps future changes will give me other reasons for being here: only time will tell.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Two23 on December 27, 2018, 04:23:42 pm
While  I'm a bit taken aback by the abrupt and mysterious shake up, I'm willing to stick around and give it a chance.  Lula has been a useful resource for me.


Kent in SD,
A lesser  forum member
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 27, 2018, 05:06:21 pm


I cannot comment further on the timing of this transition or how this may reflect on Kevin other than to reiterate my gratitude to him for his contribution to content and his consistent hard work in delivering it. Truly.

Reiterate? This is the first I’ve read concerning your sincere thanks to Kevin.  That should have been in your first post, don’t you think?

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: ejkrouse on December 27, 2018, 05:32:48 pm
First post here (plea, really) from Eric the newb:

I've been thinking about this continuously since yesterday, and may have now inhaled just enough Eclipse fumes to clumsily verbalize what I've been feeling (5 swabs worth, to you all playing at home. My D7100 is an oily SOB.) A lot of it relates to David's comment, that LuLa is by and for old men.

As a 35 year old photographer, I feel attacked.

I discovered LuLa in 2001, my freshman year of college. (Brevard '05, baby! Go Tornadoes! or was it White Squirrels...) I'd been futzing around with my N70, 3rd party kit lens, and no prayer to know what I was doing for years before then. An environmental studies degree's worth of living beside Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina will make at least an occasional landscape photographer out of anyone. The Luminous Landscape was, to me, the primary source for education in all things photographic, even over formal instruction in the art building. I learned to shoot images by reading the Nikon manual. I learned to make them here. The importance of a tripod, remote shutter release, waking up early, staying out late, where to focus, how to compose, how to see; everything was presented here. As a budding photog back then, I couldn't get through the articles fast enough. The spirit of the art form, and the process to carry it out successfully. Plein Air geeking, Lenswork for the computer age. Now today, I am not a Pro, or bonafide landscape photographer; I'm a recreational stock contributor who sneaks a few landscapes in, and I have a pretty good dog portrait side hustle, but the urge to learn is greater than ever. Since he took the helm, I feel like I've gotten to know Kevin Raber as an artist and a person. We all accompanied him while he adventured to fantastic photographic locations, became a husband, and endured heart jarring losses. I'm going to miss reading about his endeavors here. Thank you Kevin, for sharing your life with us!

On to the attack part:

As I said, I'm the appropriate age to shoot a disapproving look toward someone disparaging These Damn Millennials. (side note: we aren't killing Christmas, motorcycles, or cash, but mayonnaise is gross; I'll own that one). We're the connected generation, with smartphones, tablets, laptops, DEVICES shining at us constantly. And that's where most folks of the bracket, myself included, are getting their information and beginning their learning journey. I used to hit Barnes and Noble for a Peterson book if I wanted to understand exposure, now it's straight to YouTube. For instance; I'm a stock contributor who's been recently getting into footage, so I'm learning basic shooting and editing techniques- Philip Bloom's channel has been invaluable. Then there's the other content, aimed squarely at the new to intermediate photo/video creator who's looking for guidance. I'm sure this is just another iterative wave of the marketing machine (BESURETODRINKYOUROVALTINE), but we're getting absolutely attacked from all sides by influencers, marketers, and shoddily veiled 'reviews' of sponsored products by sponsored presenters. Buy This Stuff So You Can Shoot These Things Like These People. Episodes are devolving, with a few great exceptions, into a product's White Paper with some pretty pictures thrown in. Even though I'm pretty hardened to suggestion, I get tingling pangs in my fingers when a Z7 or X1D advertorial comes up in my feed. It's overwhelming. These folks are so good at making your current setup seem too inadequate to even hold down the table it's resting on. "but last month you said it was 'dope'..."

We (us younger folk especially) need to have a refuge from all this viral money-grab fanfare. LuLa is a sanctuary from the strobing, desk pounding, BEST/WORST clickbait horrorshow much of our hobby/obsession/profession has become. We all love fair, unbiased reviews mixed in with the technique, location, and process articles. Who here has a C1 and/or 34L directly because of this site? It's when the balance tips too far to Geartography, Likes, and tech brinkmanship that other content pages lose their way. We need our "old men" (read: the experienced, wizened masterful creators of visual art that are found here) to maintain some perspective. I need the reassurance that, yes, the new Phaselblad IQhy6 is badass, but also that my D7100 is also crushing face, spitting out buttery B-roll, pumping out the bangers, or whatever the hell we're supposed to say when 'everything just clicks."

The site surely needs to evolve, maybe it needs someone like yourself to "shake up the place" but I do hope it will remain at it's level of maturity, and opt for value and quality over flashy content and baited viewership. For me, that's the fear.

Josh, don't let the wolves in.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JoshReichmann on December 27, 2018, 05:55:32 pm
Great post Ejkrouse. Indeed, let me assuage your fears and state that my directional hopes for the site are far from the worries you present. I grew up with one of the wisened luminaries whose seasoned opinions you’re sighting as so valuable. I agree. In fact, the goal is to integrate that carried wisdom into updated methods of delivery on here while adding new voices and visionaries.  Aswell - my lens is one which values the human as personal much more so than the commercial noise on offer elsewhere, appreciate your story and sentiment.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: guido on December 27, 2018, 05:58:20 pm
I welcome Josh's breath of fresh air. The site had become quite stale and self congratulatory. More focus on photography as art will be quite a welcome change.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 27, 2018, 06:35:46 pm
I welcome Josh's breath of fresh air...

You must be a clairvoyant.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JoshReichmann on December 27, 2018, 07:03:38 pm
Don’t you mean a clAIRvoyant ?

 8)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 27, 2018, 07:20:12 pm
Don’t you mean a clAIRvoyant ?

Ah, ok... one point for the sense of humor ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JoshReichmann on December 27, 2018, 07:25:24 pm
I cannot possibly have won you over so fast.
Disappointed.  :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 27, 2018, 07:27:06 pm
... What will happen?

In the coming months, we will introduce a new batch of professional photographers, writers, gear reviewers, and just as importantly, new formats for presentation.

Some examples:
 
-     Photographer’s profiles with a consistent set of questions - 15 &15 (fifteen questions and fifteen images)...

Hmmm... where did I see those "fifteen images" before?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 27, 2018, 07:27:53 pm
I cannot possibly have won you over so fast.
Disappointed.  :)

One point down, 99 to go ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JoshReichmann on December 27, 2018, 07:36:58 pm
Never have I seen that, but everything from the Washington Post to any number of music / art publications use a similer frame. I’ll revise though on your good council - 12 questions it shall be !
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rick Popham on December 27, 2018, 09:08:13 pm
Wow.  I've been coming to this site forever.  It eased me through my transition from film to digital.  Michael and Jeff's "Camera to Print" video came out just in time for my first show and saved my butt.  I've argued on the Forum against Adobe's subscription model.  So this site has meant a lot to me and I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Thank you Chris, for all the work you've done, mostly behind the scenes, all these years with Michael and then Kevin -- I've enjoyed every minute.  I hope you do pop in now and then to keep in touch.  And thank you Kevin, for keeping the place going and for your never failing enthusiasm.  Good luck with your new venture!

Josh, I certainly wish you the best and I'll be sticking around to see what's up.  I miss your dad's presence here and hope you can bring some of that back.

Best,

Rick
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: luxborealis on December 28, 2018, 12:12:16 am
Having just read the back-and-forth banter here, I am energized by what I’m reading. I think the newbie ‘first post here’ ejkrouse hit the nail on the head. And Josh, your responses to some difficult criticisms (and Slobodan’s wit) have been thoughtful (not that you need my approval).

I’m looking forward to a revitalized Lula! All the best to you, Josh and Irene.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rajan Parrikar on December 28, 2018, 05:33:44 am
The first order of business for the new crew should be to overhaul the Forum software which is woefully out of date. A platform devoted to photography ought to have a better way to display and view photos.

Chris and Kevin - thank you for all your past work.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jonathan Cross on December 28, 2018, 06:01:01 am
To me this has the hallmarks of the shock of the new.  To get a communication just before Christmas was a real surprise.  I echo all the comments about Chris and Kevin (and not forgetting Kevin's wife).  Chris kept it all going fairly much in the background, but his contribution cannot be overestimated.  Kevin was brave in taking over from an icon who died well before his time and I think he worked hard;  I enjoyed his output and learned a lot.  Lula is my go-to photographic website for all its components.  Ok I got fed up with the forum sometimes when a thread became just a back and forth between a just a few people, but compared to some other sites the level of rudeness and unsubstantiated criticism is very low. 

I just hope that the change has genuinely been amicable.  I shall continue to follow Lula and watch what happens with interest.  You have hard acts to follow, Josh.

Best wishes,

Jonathan
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 28, 2018, 09:36:35 am
On The Internet it is easy to develop the idea that success is easy. All one need to do is emulate other success stories, surely.

This is untrue. For every success story, there are thousands of nearly identical ideas which failed miserably, the problem is one of survivorship bias. We assume that we can identify the ingredients of success by examining a few success stories. It does not help at all that the people involved in a success almost invariably haven't the faintest idea why the succeeded -- but think that they do and will invariably share their completely knuckleheaded ideas with you. They think it was skill, but in fact it was mostly luck.

LuLa is going to see a dip in traffic, inevitably. Change always does that, it has very little to do with the substance of the change.

Josh & Irene, to be successful, are going to have to a) claw back the lost traffic and b) reverse the trend of dropping traffic, which is almost universal across the web, and moreso in the photo industry. Neither of these are going to be easy, and quite frankly, a few gimmicky ideas are not going to do it. The web is a graveyard with literally millions of gimmicky ideas buried in it.

Who do you want to attract? How do you plan to turn them in to money? What does your audience want, and what do your customers want, and how can those two things co-exist? Having sorted out that, then you turn to the question of getting hold of what the audience, and the customers, want and delivering it.

And it's still a long shot at that point.

Web sites on photography are the intersection of two industries in brisk decline. Find a niche with some legs, and play the hell out of it. I guess.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on December 28, 2018, 09:51:06 am
On The Internet it is easy to develop the idea that success is easy. All one need to do is emulate other success stories, surely.

This is untrue. For every success story, there are thousands of nearly identical ideas which failed miserably, the problem is one of survivorship bias. We assume that we can identify the ingredients of success by examining a few success stories. It does not help at all that the people involved in a success almost invariably haven't the faintest idea why the succeeded -- but think that they do and will invariably share their completely knuckleheaded ideas with you. They think it was skill, but in fact it was mostly luck.

LuLa is going to see a dip in traffic, inevitably. Change always does that, it has very little to do with the substance of the change.

Josh & Irene, to be successful, are going to have to a) claw back the lost traffic and b) reverse the trend of dropping traffic, which is almost universal across the web, and moreso in the photo industry. Neither of these are going to be easy, and quite frankly, a few gimmicky ideas are not going to do it. The web is a graveyard with literally millions of gimmicky ideas buried in it.

Who do you want to attract? How do you plan to turn them in to money? What does your audience want, and what do your customers want, and how can those two things co-exist? Having sorted out that, then you turn to the question of getting hold of what the audience, and the customers, want and delivering it.

And it's still a long shot at that point.

Web sites on photography are the intersection of two industries in brisk decline. Find a niche with some legs, and play the hell out of it. I guess.

Well there is a lot to think about here Andrew, but I would imagine a way to guarantee some sort of succeed with this site, is to go back to what it was originally when Michael first set it up (if it aint broke etc), which was a totally FREE to access site, but with video downloads that you had to buy if you wished to watch them, but once having done so you could then keep them and watch them repeatedly.

It certainly worked for Michael and Chris for decades and if re-introduced exactly as it was before and with the same level of quality and content, I can't see why it shouldn't work just as well again.

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on December 28, 2018, 10:32:00 am
Well there is a lot to think about here Andrew, but I would imagine a way to guarantee some sort of succeed with this site, is to go back to what it was originally when Michael first set it up (if it aint broke etc), which was a totally FREE to access site, but with video downloads that you had to buy if you wished to watch them, but once having done so you could then keep them and watch them repeatedly.

It certainly worked for Michael and Chris for decades and if re-introduced exactly as it was before and with the same level of quality and content, I can't see why it shouldn't work just as well again.

Dave
Look at the ways for a site to make money:
1) Advertising - already done
2) Membership Fee - already done; but this has to be carefully done in terms of amount as both existing and new users will evaluate whether the cost is worth the benefit
3) Provide some kind of Product - this was done with the Michael and Jeff videos that were well produced and filled a need.  I paid for several of them and found the content and quality exceptional.  At this point in time the Internet is loaded with video content and any new offering has to fill some kind of void.  This is what the new proprietors are going to have to struggle with 'if' this is the way they intend to go forward.

The bigger question is what type of content do LuLa members want.  Some of the reviews, in particular the printer ones done by Mark Segal, were excellent and provided great information for those wanting to purchase a printer (my Epson 3880 continues to perk along so I not in that category yet).  Other reviews were hit and miss.  Some of the photography articles were quite lame.  If the content is not there, the site will slowly fade away.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 28, 2018, 11:43:55 am
Reviews are tricky. There are millions of review sites around and probably most of them are biased by advertisers. There are also test sites providing objective measurements. I don't want a reviewer making test shots because I can get that data more reliably elsewhere. I want someone telling me what it's actually like to use the camera. Of course anyone can do that, so it has to be someone you trust. Like Michael. Until someone else shows up who can deserve the same level of trust then reviews will only be a subsidiary feature (IMO, obviously)

Having said all that it would be nice to see a Nikon review from time to time  :-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 28, 2018, 11:50:11 am
Reiterate? This is the first I’ve read concerning your sincere thanks to Kevin.  That should have been in your first post, don’t you think?

Jeff

From the front page article:

"Of course, we extend our very best wishes to Kevin Raber as he pivots to focus on offering Rockhopper Workshops and setting sail towards other endeavors. "
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 28, 2018, 12:17:43 pm
Two of the more common mistakes in business are:

1. confusing "what I want" with "what the market wants"
2. confusing "what worked last year" with "what will work this year"

Marketing is an actual discipline, but many people who fancy themselves experts do not practice it.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: RMW on December 28, 2018, 01:31:42 pm
Many thanks to Kevin and Chris for all they've contributed. I hope they know how much appreciation they deserve.

My enjoyment and learning from being a part of LuLa is great. And I hope that what I don't know about this change in leadership was anything regrettable.

Besides being a resource for photography, this website has always been a place of friendly support and good humor (well almost always). May it stay this way.

Richard
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 28, 2018, 02:29:15 pm
... It certainly worked for Michael and Chris for decades and if re-introduced exactly as it was before and with the same level of quality and content, I can't see why it shouldn't work just as well again.

Because it would be like fighting yesterday's wars? The French tried that with the Maginot line and failed miserably.

Nothing today is the same as ten years ago. There was the novelty of digital, there was excitement, there was next to zero prior knowledge for us switching from film to digital. There is only yawn today. Nothing creates that level of excitement today. Without its faithful samurai Bernard, even Nikon Z wouldn't reach one tenth of the pages on this site. It isn't Kevin's fault, it certainly isn't Josh' fault either, it simply is.



Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ray Harrison on December 28, 2018, 02:30:31 pm
I wish Kevin and Chris huge success in future endeavors and I wanted to thank them for the talent and dedication to making this site what it is today. They have the ability to "think sideways" and I know we'll be hearing of their next successful ventures soon. Thanks guys!

Josh and Irene - welcome!

As a long time reader, lurker, I was initially miffed when it went "paid" a number of years back and threw my toys out of the pram and sulked in a corner. After all, the web is full of photography sites, right? That said, when I wanted to up my game on tools like Capture One and to get into printing, I realized that maybe, just maybe, the content was well worth the super-high cost of $12/year  :) - and it definitely was. And the current price is obviously laughably cheap. And I would certainly pay more for similar quality, in-depth content such as Camera-To-Print/Screen and Mark Segal's truly excellent reviews, though I may be in the minority.

I pay for two photography sites: Luminous Landscape and Reid Reviews and both because for me, they provide a rather eclectic and often in-depth look at things I find interesting. LuLa's community is an eclectic mix too and I enjoy reading and learning from the wide variety of minds that frequent the forum and that create content here. I'm much less interested in videos on paid junkets to vendor sponsored events, though even I like fluff reading/viewing every now and again. I'm OK with making money off of targeted advertising, much the way it is now. And like others have mentioned, getting into the minds of photographers and other videos like the Masters series, keep it coming! I'm not too interested in video as a subject, but I am very much interested in story telling with images, so am interested to see where Josh takes his video interests with this site.

If the site has dreams of being a "YouTube Influencer", I'd very much pass unless the definition of that happens to change. I definitely get the need to grow traffic and since my day job involves working to understand a large customer base and getting them to part with hard-earned cash, I have some sympathy with the need to take things to the next level. It is tricky to get right though.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeanMichel on December 28, 2018, 04:08:01 pm
I add my best wishes to to Josh and Irene for the continuing success of LuLa. I equally wish to thank Kevin and Chris for all their contributions to the site and forum.

I first registered in 2009 when I transitioned from film to digital; the greatest value I got from LuLa were the early camera equipment review, printer reviews and the video tutorials such as Cameras to Print, Lightroom series, and such. I often recommend those to people asking me for advice, they remain an excellent source of foundational information for 'digital' photography. I frequent the site daily, mostly out of general interest and to occasionally offer a solution to an issue encountered by a member. I am one of the old foggies  and frankly do not need nor get much new information from this or any other sites. By now the digital stuff has reached the "how to design a new kettle" stage and save for minimal valuable enhancement to equipment or software there is not much for me to be gleaned; but there is to the new generation of photographers.

I quickly searched for information on Josh and Irene. Both are graduates from schools I attended and that makes me happy; however, the experience they list is definitely not in what most people would describe as photographic, so it will be interesting to see how they make LuLa relevant to both more recent converts to photography and to the old practitioners.

I am looking forward to the next iteration of LuLa.
 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: davidnumrich on December 28, 2018, 04:23:51 pm
Because it would be like fighting yesterday's wars? The French tried that with the Maginot line and failed miserably.

Nothing today is the same as ten years ago. There was the novelty of digital, there was excitement, there was next to zero prior knowledge for us switching from film to digital. There is only yawn today. Nothing creates that level of excitement today. Without its faithful samurai Bernard, even Nikon Z wouldn't reach one tenth of the pages on this site. It isn't Kevin's fault, it certainly isn't Josh' fault either, it simply is.

I only seriously got into photography for the first time in November of 2016 with the A7R II. I had a Canon Rebel DSLR before that, but it never clicked for me. Mirrorless technology that brings the ability to see what your settings are doing to the exposure in real time is really what it took for everything to start making sense. It just feels a lot more natural coming from a smartphone and I think there are a lot more people out there like me who will continue to discover more advanced photography through affordable mirrorless cameras.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 28, 2018, 05:09:27 pm
Because it would be like fighting yesterday's wars? The French tried that with the Maginot line and failed miserably.

Nothing today is the same as ten years ago. There was the novelty of digital, there was excitement, there was next to zero prior knowledge for us switching from film to digital. There is only yawn today. Nothing creates that level of excitement today. Without its faithful samurai Bernard, even Nikon Z wouldn't reach one tenth of the pages on this site. It isn't Kevin's fault, it certainly isn't Josh' fault either, it simply is.


Yes, that's the hard reality, Slobodan: the world has turned blasé and not much can turn that around.

For this old guy, the interest is firmly planted in his hereos of yesteryear, certainly most of them already made men, as it were, back in the days of film and 45rpm. I don't watch much tv apart from a thirst for some news channels, and I enjoy some old series such as House and The Sopranos and, if I feel short of concentration, I still realise that I can find my face in a smile watching Friends where, to my surprise, I now find myself much more drawn to Ms Cox than to my earlier favourite, Ms Aniston. How old do you have to get before maturing ends? Music? Lost in the 50s and 60s most nights (and days).

Anyway, not only has photography appeared to have changed from skilled production to ubiquitous selfie, but perhaps skill no longer matters much anymore. In an odd sort of way, perhaps that can be a blessing: I no longer cart a meter around like a necklace, and I have become totally lazy and depedent on auto-ISO. Is that a bad thing? If it allows me to enjoy snapping away just to please myself, then no, it's not bad at all.

Perhaps this ease has brought us all to the point where we eventually realise that being able to click and get a technical wonder without thinking is no longer quite the buzz it was supposed to be going to be; maybe, just maybe, we'll all come to conclude that content matters most. Square 1?

It's funny how long it takes for people to realise the inescapable interconnectedness of everything. Look around our city centres and you see closed, crushed, abandoned dreams on every little corner; the once untouchables are faring no better, and some of my prized, favourite clients have been bought over and decimated, and they are the lucky ones; the car business has seen marques fall like last season's leaves. Camera companies have been whittled down to what Sinatra might have called these precious few. We look around for evil entities to blame and to curse for our lost jobs and options, and hey, we realise it's all out own damned fault: we can't resist the short-term bargain and the siren song of the multinational tech. company. Serves us friggin' right, I guess.

But yeah, I'd take the chance and return LuLa to its earlier, more innocent time, but then that requires the factor of love, and doing something just for the hell of it, which from the outside at least, was what Michael seemed to be doing. Bring in the need for big bucks to run an expanded site, amd perhaps it can no longer be done for love alone.

I would hate to run my own blog, never mind something like this project, so thank goodness it doesn't depend on the likes of moi!

Buenas noches.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Peter McLennan on December 28, 2018, 06:35:08 pm
Help me out here.  Is Chris "off the island", too? 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on December 28, 2018, 06:52:19 pm
I quickly searched for information on Josh and Irene. Both are graduates from schools I attended and that makes me happy; however, the experience they list is definitely not in what most people would describe as photographic, so it will be interesting to see how they make LuLa relevant to both more recent converts to photography and to the old practitioners.
Can you provide a link.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 28, 2018, 06:56:18 pm
Help me out here.  Is Chris "off the island", too? 

Yes.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: 32BT on December 28, 2018, 07:18:35 pm
Because it would be like fighting yesterday's wars? The French tried that with the Maginot line and failed miserably.

Nothing today is the same as ten years ago. There was the novelty of digital, there was excitement, there was next to zero prior knowledge for us switching from film to digital. There is only yawn today. Nothing creates that level of excitement today. Without its faithful samurai Bernard, even Nikon Z wouldn't reach one tenth of the pages on this site. It isn't Kevin's fault, it certainly isn't Josh' fault either, it simply is.

+1

The numbers were already dwindling, the worst advice is any suggestion of going back to the way it was. In order to revive into a new and thriving community, you need to change the entire scope. Whether it is even possible on internuts these days is also a good point. It's interesting to note that the Instagrams of this world may be successful in some sense, but certainly not in creating a community spirit of shared interests.

If you really want to make money, the site needs to be the equivalent of an influencer, just like this site used to be in the sphere of professional photography and medium format gear. Apart from the fact that there is little money left in that sphere, i don't believe this site is the kind of influencer it used to be.

Is properly filtered, quality info still a valuable asset to become the kind of influence that generates sustainable income? I doubt it strongly, or otherwise newssites wouldn't be in such dire straits. Stonewalling with paywalls is the worst choice though, there may be options using very low barrier forms of PWYW (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_what_you_want) using proper account management.

I wish anyone responsible for continuation of this website the best of luck and wisdom, and sincerely hope they succeed, at the very least in keeping the legacy resources available.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 28, 2018, 07:26:45 pm
From the front page article:

"Of course, we extend our very best wishes to Kevin Raber as he pivots to focus on offering Rockhopper Workshops and setting sail towards other endeavors. "

Exactly... good luck going forward... but no thanks or recognition for past accomplishments or role as CEO and Publisher for the last year and a half following Michael’s passing.  The snub is made more stark in contrast to the clear thanks expressed to Chris for his past contributions.  Common courtesy, especially on a public forum.

Jeff

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Two23 on December 28, 2018, 10:12:00 pm

........ Camera companies have been whittled down to what Sinatra might have called these precious few.....


Well yes, and no.  Most of the major players from twenty years ago are still around in some form.  I can think of only a few that have actually disappeared, such as Bronica.  The sales of some of the older companies specializing in 35mm SLR cameras has faded, such as Pentax, but Minolta has flourished when reinvented as Sony.  There are new camera companies springing up all over the world now, too!  My favorite camera is a Chamonix 045n.  In the past year we've seen Intrepid come out with two models, and also two from Poland:  Chroma and Svdosky.  I lust for a new Italian brand's 8x10, the Light Hunter by Gibellini.  It's gorgeous!
https://www.gibellinicamera.com/light-hunter


"Exactly... good luck going forward... but no thanks or recognition for past accomplishments or role as CEO and Publisher for the last year and a half following Michael’s passing.  The snub is made more stark in contrast to the clear thanks expressed to Chris for his past contributions.  Common courtesy, especially on a public forum."  (Jeff)


I find myself agreeing with this sentiment more than not.  It could have been handled much better. :(



Kent in SD,
A lesser forum member
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 28, 2018, 10:20:51 pm
The camera industry remains larger than it was in, say, the 1970s, by I think quite a bit. I looked the numbers up a while back, let me see if I can find them. Yep, here it is. In the 1970s, Polaroid is shipping something like 5M units/year, Japan is shipping something like 2.5M SLRs per year. All up the whole damn thing is maybe 10M units a year? 15M? In 2018 we're seeing 1.4M units a MONTH from CIPA, which doesn't include phones and also leaves out a handful of smaller sectors (MF, I think? Maybe all the European manufacturers? Film cameras, and probably a bunch of other little niches.)

Margins may be a lower, due to the vastly increased complexity of cameras, I don't know offhand. The contraction is not really from 20th century numbers, but rather from the massive explosion of growth in the early 2000s brought on by the transition to digital.

What is not clear to me is how large a company must be to successfully make a business out of digital cameras in this century. You could run a surprisingly small shop building the cameras of the 1970s, in the 1970s, and be successful by the standards or the 1970s. It's not the 1970s any more.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Two23 on December 28, 2018, 10:31:58 pm
You could run a surprisingly small shop building the cameras of the 1970s, in the 1970s, and be successful by the standards or the 1970s. It's not the 1970s any more.


Maybe not digital, but you can certainly start up a successful small camera company today if you have a good product and are clever.
https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/about

http://svedovsky.com/about/

http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/index.html

https://www.gibellinicamera.com/studio


Kent in SD,
A lesser forum member
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 28, 2018, 10:50:59 pm
Maybe not digital, but you can certainly start up a successful small camera company today if you have a good product and are clever...

Imdeed. All you need is a shoe box and a needle.

I can already see hordes flocking to this site to read a review of an Italian, hand-made, 8x10 camera. I did mention “yesterday’s wars” earlier, but you seems to be taking us to the bow and arrow era ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Two23 on December 28, 2018, 11:02:02 pm
Imdeed. All you need is a shoe box and a needle.

I can already see hordes flocking to this site to read a review of an Italian, hand-made, 8x10 camera. I did mention “yesterday’s wars” earlier, but you seems to be taking us to the bow and arrow era ;)


Oh, I'm well beyond that already.  I'm into the equivalent of rocks & pointed sticks. ;)   I've been shooting glass plates using lenses made 1845-1862 this year.  My goal for next year is to learn how to make 5x7 wet collodion (wet plate) images with those same lenses and an ~1860s replica camera. :)  As for the hand made Italian cameras, they are things of beauty!  Art in themselves.  If they didn't cost $6,000 I would already have one. :o


Kent in SD.
A lesser forum member
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Peter McLennan on December 28, 2018, 11:16:31 pm
Yes.

:(
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Osprey on December 29, 2018, 12:23:13 am
Well, let's take your unit estimates as correct. 
Sounds like the camera market today is something like 18 million cameras per year, give or take.
And you think the 1970s was 10 million or so cameras per year.

Well, the population of the US in 1976 was 216 million, now it's 330 million.
There's hundreds of millions of Chinese who can afford cameras now compared to 1976, never mind large swathes of the rest of Asia.

So it sounds like the camera industry is at best keeping up the pace with the 1970s if you adjust for population and may well be falling behind, if your numbers are in the ballpark.

The camera industry remains larger than it was in, say, the 1970s, by I think quite a bit. I looked the numbers up a while back, let me see if I can find them. Yep, here it is. In the 1970s, Polaroid is shipping something like 5M units/year, Japan is shipping something like 2.5M SLRs per year. All up the whole damn thing is maybe 10M units a year? 15M? In 2018 we're seeing 1.4M units a MONTH from CIPA, which doesn't include phones and also leaves out a handful of smaller sectors (MF, I think? Maybe all the European manufacturers? Film cameras, and probably a bunch of other little niches.)

Margins may be a lower, due to the vastly increased complexity of cameras, I don't know offhand. The contraction is not really from 20th century numbers, but rather from the massive explosion of growth in the early 2000s brought on by the transition to digital.

What is not clear to me is how large a company must be to successfully make a business out of digital cameras in this century. You could run a surprisingly small shop building the cameras of the 1970s, in the 1970s, and be successful by the standards or the 1970s. It's not the 1970s any more.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 29, 2018, 12:24:24 am
You are not counting phones. You have to count phones to make sense of the market for picture making devices.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Osprey on December 29, 2018, 12:42:20 am
Sony's about the only traditional camera manufacturer I can see that helping, unless someone else is making phone cameras or sensors for them. 

You are not counting phones. You have to count phones to make sense of the market for picture making devices.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Klein on December 29, 2018, 01:11:58 am
It's not unusual for a son to take over the family business.  It's now up to Josh to direct its fortunes.  I can see why Kevin and Chris couldn't stay. How do you have two sets of leaders with differing opinions on policy and direction?   I'm sure Kevin and Chris will be alright and land on their feet.  I wish them the best of luck as I do for Josh as well. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: 32BT on December 29, 2018, 04:15:05 am
Maybe they should start a videoshow called "Top Gear", then invite a celebrity each week to talk about their first camera and let them shoot a reasonably priced camera. Then do a stupid camera challenge where they race a top of the line Nikon Z7 against a shoebox with a hole in it and see who comes back with the better streetshot.

Come to think of it, you don't even need a change of the old guard. Presentors are best kept overdate, old, and curmudgeon. (and on that bombshell...)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 29, 2018, 04:15:54 am
You are not counting phones. You have to count phones to make sense of the market for picture making devices.


No, you are mistaken. Cellphones and iPads are not cameras from bona fide camera companies, which was what I was thinking about when I wrote. Those devices are killers of camera companies. And why do you choose the 70s as your datum line? Camera companies were banging 'em out decades before that. My first reasonable little camera was a Voiglánder Vito B, followed by an Exakta Varex 11a followed by the 11b. Before any of those I had a little Bakelite/plastic? Kodak Brownie Reflex tlr using 127 film.

Because Cosina buys the brand name for another company does not imply that company still exists as a healthy producer of cameras. Go ask the Europeans who used to work in those factories.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on December 29, 2018, 04:34:56 am
Turning back the clock would probably win the approval of a few here on LuLa, but to thrive the site would need to win the approval of the many, expanding the appeal to a new, younger, audience.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 29, 2018, 04:50:09 am
Maybe they should start a videoshow called "Top Gear", then invite a celebrity each week to talk about their first camera and let them shoot a reasonably priced camera. Then do a stupid camera challenge where they race a top of the line Nikon Z7 against a shoebox with a hole in it and see who comes back with the better streetshot.

Come to think of it, you don't even need a change of the old guard. Presentors are best kept overdate, old, and curmudgeon. (and on that bombshell...)

That's a wonderful idea!

A friend just sent me an e-mail with eight silly photos of nudes beside sunny snowmen. I would have sworn they were Kodachromes, and as the boobs look beautifully natural, that might even be the case.

But hey, the point is - oops! - that LuLa could develop an improved version of this theme for itself: instead of, as in the past, trips down south to disturb the natural ecology of the planet, LuLa could provide alternative guided (gotta be guided - wouldn't want any LuLanders getting lost, would we?), reasonably priced specialty photo tours and become the numero uno company in the world providing the ultimate photo "experience" for which all photographers lust: two-week camera testing shoots at Sandals Babados, nude models provided at no additional cost, and equipment supplied by Phase and Leica. An on-site boutique would allow any convinced photographer the opportunity of buying his very own camera of choice right there and then, thus enjoying the added value of VIP status in bypassing any queue that might exist in the real world off piste. Win win! I wish I'd thought of it first!

Who needs chat shows online about Nikon and Sony (Canon? Wot dat?) and Fuji when you can cut to the chase and do what you secretly wanted to do all along?

There is a bright future ahead, handled right!

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on December 29, 2018, 05:00:05 am
That's a wonderful idea!

A friend just sent me an e-mail with eight silly photos of nudes beside sunny snowmen. I would have sworn they were Kodachromes, and as the boobs look beautifully natural, that might even be the case.

But hey, the point is - oops! - that LuLa could develop an improved version of this theme for itself: instead of, as in the past, trips down south to disturb the natural ecology of the planet, LuLa could provide alternative guided (gotta be guided - wouldn't want any LuLanders getting lost, would we?), reasonably priced specialty photo tours and become the numero uno company in the world providing the ultimate photo "experience" for which all photographers lust: two-week camera testing shoots at Sandals Babados, nude models provided at no additional cost, and equipment supplied by Phase and Leica. An on-site boutique would allow any convinced photographer the opportunity of buying his very own camera of choice right there and then, thus enjoying the added value of VIP status in bypassing any queue that might exist in the real world off piste. Win win! I wish I'd thought of it first!

Who needs chat shows online about Nikon and Sony (Canon? Wot dat?) and Fuji when you can cut to the chase and do what you secretly wanted to do all along?

There is a bright future ahead, handled right!

;-)

Rob, no doubt those speciality photo tours already exist.

:-(

EDIT: Here's a thought, you could lead that Sandals Barbados tour! Nice little earner.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: hexx on December 29, 2018, 07:15:18 am
As long as it doesn’t end up in the same poo as petapixel, it should be fine.

I’ve been reading LuLa since 2006, bought several videos and am active subscriber. I come here for great articles and good reviews of the gear but lately there wasn’t much of that, some Fuji, some Sony and what felt like sponsored Canon article.

Quality needs to come back and please make forums responsive, it’s almost 2019
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bob_B on December 29, 2018, 07:40:57 am
It's not unusual for a son to take over the family business.  It's now up to Josh to direct its fortunes.  I can see why Kevin and Chris couldn't stay. How do you have two sets of leaders with differing opinions on policy and direction?   I'm sure Kevin and Chris will be alright and land on their feet.  I wish them the best of luck as I do for Josh as well.

Well said.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: kers on December 29, 2018, 08:13:47 am
It's not unusual for a son to take over the family business.  It's now up to Josh to direct its fortunes.  I can see why Kevin and Chris couldn't stay. How do you have two sets of leaders with differing opinions on policy and direction?   I'm sure Kevin and Chris will be alright and land on their feet.  I wish them the best of luck as I do for Josh as well.
" the change of this landscape"is not the point;
It is the rude way Kevin and Chris are set aside in this proclamation without giving them a chance to saying goodbye themselves and without thanking them in a proper way for the good work all these years.
So here i would like to thank them both for being the corners stones of LULA for so long and being responsable for keeping LULA up and alive all these years.
I read Josh may wish to continu the good parts and spirit of Lula and improve others, but this is a bad start and not in the spirit of LULA as i know it.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 29, 2018, 08:20:14 am
Exactly... good luck going forward... but no thanks or recognition for past accomplishments or role as CEO and Publisher for the last year and a half following Michael’s passing.  The snub is made more stark in contrast to the clear thanks expressed to Chris for his past contributions.  Common courtesy, especially on a public forum.

Jeff

Well since neither you nor I know what happened or in fact either of the parties involved, it's a little hard to judge what's right and what's wrong. Bit like getting involved in a domestic dispute.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bill.D on December 29, 2018, 08:31:00 am
" the change of this landscape"is not the point;
It is the rude way Kevin and Chris are set aside in this proclamation without giving them a chance to saying goodbye themselves and without thanking them in a proper way for the good work all these years.
So here i would like to thank them both for being the corners stones of LULA for so long and being responsable for keeping LULA up and alive all these years.
I read Josh may wish to continu the good parts and spirit of Lula and improve others, but this is a bad start and not in the spirit of LULA as i know it.

Exactly right!  I wish Jeremy good luck, but this is not an auspicious beginning.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 29, 2018, 09:45:20 am
Well since neither you nor I know what happened or in fact either of the parties involved, it's a little hard to judge what's right and what's wrong. Bit like getting involved in a domestic dispute.


Absolutely on the money.

It also surprises me that most of the assumed angst comes from posters with a very low mileage...

Funny old world, the world of photo-forums.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 29, 2018, 09:57:52 am
Rob, no doubt those speciality photo tours already exist.

:-(

EDIT: Here's a thought, you could lead that Sandals Barbados tour! Nice little earner.

;-)

Yes, they sure do, Keith, if not quite in the form I envisaged...

Regarding leading such ventures: shortly after we moved to Spain an old printer contact (used to do some calendars for me) suggested I do this very thing, as he was sure he knew folks willing to pay to go and join me.

I told him that I could see two instant problems:

1. the level of model who'd want such work;

2. the fact that I know, have always known, that as for you, my worst photographic nightmare is beng stuck somewhere with a bunch of camera fans. Being a photographer is a solo art: the only people you want with you are the people you are going to photograph, and they have to be pretty damned special too, or we might all just as well go home and have a nice cup of tea.

Sadly, Graham is no longer here, but in case he is passing by, I mean tea not in the Jeanloup Sieff sense of a cup of tea.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 29, 2018, 10:10:47 am
Well since neither you nor I know what happened or in fact either of the parties involved, it's a little hard to judge what's right and what's wrong. Bit like getting involved in a domestic dispute.

Not really. There is that little thing called “reading between the lines.”
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 29, 2018, 10:26:20 am
Well since neither you nor I know what happened or in fact either of the parties involved, it's a little hard to judge what's right and what's wrong. Bit like getting involved in a domestic dispute.

Doesn’t matter.  Say thanks and move on. Keep the rest private as necessary. Simple, really.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 29, 2018, 10:33:47 am
Doesn’t matter.  Say thanks and move on. Keep the rest private as necessary. Simple, really.

Jeff

Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 29, 2018, 10:48:12 am

Absolutely on the money.

It also surprises me that most of the assumed angst comes from posters with a very low mileage...

Funny old world, the world of photo-forums.

Rob

Some people are experienced managing businesses and professional relationships, not posting on forums daily.  When I had an issue or question for Michael, I emailed him directly and the exchanges were  professional and repectful. Good person and smart businessman.  Yes, forums are funny places.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on December 29, 2018, 10:54:18 am
Yes, they sure do, Keith, if not quite in the form I envisaged...

Regarding leading such ventures: shortly after we moved to Spain an old printer contact (used to do some calendars for me) suggested I do this very thing, as he was sure he knew folks willing to pay to go and join me.

I told him that I could see two instant problems:

1. the level of model who'd want such work;

2. the fact that I know, have always known, that as for you, my worst photographic nightmare is beng stuck somewhere with a bunch of camera fans. Being a photographer is a solo art: the only people you want with you are the people you are going to photograph, and they have to be pretty damned special too, or we might all just as well go home and have a nice cup of tea.

Sadly, Graham is no longer here, but in case he is passing by, I mean tea not in the Jeanloup Sieff sense of a cup of tea.

;-)

Yes, it would of course be our worst nightmare come true!

Hang on a moment though, aren't we doing that here? Hehe.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on December 29, 2018, 11:04:21 am
Not really. There is that little thing called “reading between the lines.”
And also Private Messages!! ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 29, 2018, 11:26:10 am
Not really. There is that little thing called “reading between the lines.”

Another potential source of confusion and misunderstanding, in an international context with non-native English speakers, and the (lack of) use of emoticons ...

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 29, 2018, 12:16:27 pm
Just to return, ideally briefly, to the discussion of camera market sizes, I have to say that the disagreements with my simple remarks were bizarre, to say the least.

Rob, I chose the 1970s since i happen to have those  numbers on hand, and because it is a reasonable stab at "the last time the market was really stable, and not driven by an endless parade of new technological innovations, drawing in new blood constantly." This might not be spot on, but it's tolerably close.

In the 1970s, the market contained Serious Photographers of the amateur and professional stripes, and these people were purchasing something like 2.5 million cameras per year. At the same time, the casual "I just want pictures" people were, as a very rough approximation, purchasing 5 million polaroid cameras per year.

While you cannot *really* compare the market then with the market now, you can roughly line up the 2.5M number with the people who are buying any kind of camera at all today, and the 5M number with people who use their phones. While there are many deeper analyses that you could perform, it's not a wildly unreasonable comparison to say:

In the 1970s we saw market segment X buying 2.5M cameras/yr, and now they're buying 15M cameras/yr
In the 1970s we saw market segment X buying 5M cameras/yr, and now theu're buying 1.5B phones/yr

Yes, this is driven by non-US markets, largely. My thesis is that the rapidly shrinking current camera market is still much larger than historical markets, though, so the fact that the Chinese are buying some of these things does not negate my argument, it supports it.

None of this changes the fact that the camera market is shrinking. Not only has it completely lost the "polaroid" market, the people who just want pictures, it is losing the constant flow of new blood, and new sales, driven by endless innovation. The platform is stabilizing again, as it did in the 1970s, to a well-defined family of objects that are thoroughly wrung out, well understood, commodities.

---

At the same time,the web site industry, never healthy, is starting to gather the crop of sorrow it has long sown. Advertising online is not a magical panacea, it works as near as anyone can tell, less well then any other form of advertising, and is beginning to be priced accordingly. Online ad revenues are largely laundered venture capital at this point, rather than actual ad sales, and that's not sustainable. Nobody wants to pay for content.

The only revenue stream that's doing much of anything is straight-up cyber begging. Running a patreon is arguably the best way to monetize your online content, and that has limits.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 29, 2018, 12:48:39 pm
And also Private Messages!! ;)

I got none, so my impression is solely based on the article and subsequent commentaries. And that impression is that we are witnessing a coup d'etat by a Young Turk. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 29, 2018, 12:49:04 pm
Yes, it would of course be our worst nightmare come true!

Hang on a moment though, aren't we doing that here? Hehe.

;-)


Nah, Keith, we onliners close shop and go for tea at any time, unlike the field trip situation where you get into "three men in a boat" circumstances and have to grin whilst the model bares it.

:-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeanMichel on December 29, 2018, 01:04:54 pm
Can you provide a link.
Just search for both names in your favourite search engine. Josh has a website re his meditation business, and a LinkedIn profile; Irene has a LinkedIn profile too.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 29, 2018, 01:11:30 pm
Some people are experienced managing businesses and professional relationships, not posting on forums daily.  When I had an issue or question for Michael, I emailed him directly and the exchanges were  professional and repectful. Good person and smart businessman.  Yes, forums are funny places.

Jeff

Yes, I know that some of us have/do run businesses; none of that alters the fact that as punters and not even shareholders, it's none of our goddam business how or why things change. If either party had thought that it was, believe me, we'd all have been thrilled with the entire (one side of it at least) tale.

Regarding your personal exchanges with Michael, I presume they were nothing to do with the ownership and fiscal structure of the website? I can't imagine Michael opening his books to anyone he didn't have to allow access to same, so regular conversation restricted to photography hardly enters into this, does it? Anyhow, as he is unfortunately no longer in the building, it's irrelevant either way.

As I wrote before, this thread has rapidly turned into a classic example of confusing public interest with public curiosity, and the sense that the owners, whoever they are at any given moment, somehow owe us. Reminds me of last century's trade union concepts, where business was on the wrong track if it didn't think it was there for altruistic purposes aimed solely towards the greater joy of the employees...

:-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 29, 2018, 01:21:13 pm
... it's none of our goddam business how or why things change...

Of course it is.

WE ARE that business. The business does not exist without us. The attractiveness of this site is only partially related to the sheer technical advice one can get, but is mostly built on the personal charizma of the founder, his credibility, and last but not least, his photographic talent. If we stop believing in it (personality), if the credibility is lost, and if we see no talent, we'll be out in no time.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bns on December 29, 2018, 02:00:24 pm
Well, we are where we are now. Why don’t we give it a bit of time to let the mist disapear so we can see the outline of the new landscape. Then we might find the best marcjhing direction.

Cheers,
Boudewijn Swanenburg
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 29, 2018, 02:11:14 pm
. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.

<sits on hands> :-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 29, 2018, 02:16:37 pm
Yes, I know that some of us have/do run businesses; none of that alters the fact that as punters and not even shareholders, it's none of our goddam business how or why things change. If either party had thought that it was, believe me, we'd all have been thrilled with the entire (one side of it at least) tale.

Regarding your personal exchanges with Michael, I presume they were nothing to do with the ownership and fiscal structure of the website? I can't imagine Michael opening his books to anyone he didn't have to allow access to same, so regular conversation restricted to photography hardly enters into this, does it? Anyhow, as he is unfortunately no longer in the building, it's irrelevant either way.

As I wrote before, this thread has rapidly turned into a classic example of confusing public interest with public curiosity, and the sense that the owners, whoever they are at any given moment, somehow owe us. Reminds me of last century's trade union concepts, where business was on the wrong track if it didn't think it was there for altruistic purposes aimed solely towards the greater joy of the employees...

:-)

Rob

You didn’t understand my comments.  I don’t care what transpired in the business.  All I expected was for Josh to use common business practice and courtesy by thanking Kevin on the way out, whether he meant it or not.  That’s all.  I think Michael would have handled it better.  Who said anything about finances???

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: farbschlurf on December 29, 2018, 02:32:24 pm
I have not been here often recently and only now found out about the news ... I hope for the best and that the good of the old LuLa will find it's way to a renewed LuLa. Never easy to redesign something (technically and ideally) to achieve new attraction without loosing the old basis. We'll see. Good luck.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 29, 2018, 02:38:17 pm
  All I expected was for Josh to use common business practice and courtesy by thanking Kevin on the way out, whether he meant it or not. 

Why? Why should Josh subscribe to your old school hypocrisy?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on December 29, 2018, 03:05:05 pm
Why? Why should Josh subscribe to your old school hypocrisy?

Well then Josh is the hypocritical one, as he expressed sincere thanks to Kevin in this very thread. Many if not most subscribers never read these threads... but they do read the headline articles. For me the LuLa value has come from the written and video content, not forum chatter.  But for now, it’s the only feedback mechanism I know during the transition.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: nemtom on December 29, 2018, 04:19:01 pm
Why? Why should Josh subscribe to your old school hypocrisy?

I hope they will start showing what direction they are aiming in relative soon. After the 'The Changing Landscape' article I would expect a few examples of what can we expect from them, if the transition was well planned and prepared. If those articles would deliver what they seem to promised, that would silence the slowly ramping voice of the dubious quickly. It has been three days since that article, which is a long time in internet measures.
They need to win the audience's trust, and they did not start very well with this clear cut takeover, in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 29, 2018, 05:23:37 pm
I hope they will start showing what direction they are aiming in relative soon. After the 'The Changing Landscape' article I would expect a few examples of what can we expect from them, if the transition was well planned and prepared. If those articles would deliver what they seem to promised, that would silence the slowly ramping voice of the dubious quickly. It has been three days since that article, which is a long time in internet measures.
They need to win the audience's trust, and they did not start very well with this clear cut takeover, in my opinion.


Three days. And that is a long time? And who knows the timescale involved in the changeover? I certainly have no idea if it was long-planned or done over a day. If in a hurry, then you just have to wait and see what transpires, and don't forget, as others point out for quite different purposes, the membership is the principal product, something brought into focus when the decision was made to charge that modest membership fee, some feeling that turned their posts here into unpaid product for LuLa, which is not an entirely unreasonable view to take.

Remove the postings from readers and the place folds instantly insofar as I'm concerned. I no longer have much use for tech. info. because I have reached the level of digital ability that matches my current requirements from photography. All I need do is make better pictures, and nobody can tell me how I achieve that, and certainly nobody on the editorial staff, then or now. And it sure as hell has nothing to do with cameras! As with all of us, shortcomings are between our own two ears, where nobody else can dig deeply enough.

I believe LuLa is what it is just because of its membership and the generally sane and informed conversation that takes place regarding photography, but also because of the flights of fantasy and crosstalk allowed to exist in other respects. If it bores, then it's our own collective faults for having pretty much nothing to say. Which, as I mentioned before, is interesting in that most of the negatives come trom low-mileage posters... draw from that combination what conclusion you will.

I hope the new management displays more than a three-minute mindset. A site such as this needs substance, not daily flashes of nothing but glitz.

Frankly, the last great editorially provided photographs that grabbed my imagination ended with Michael. Recent reissues from Chris brought a few back, but they were legion during the early years I spent here.

Looking back is easy and often quite informative, just as it can be misleading in the light of new evidence. However, in the case of Michael, the stuff remains accessible if anyone searches the site. He knew what both he and photography were about. Many people do not know that much about themselves and why their stuff is what it is, good or otherwise.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on December 29, 2018, 05:35:06 pm
I guess my opinion doesn't matter much because I am relatively new around here and condescendingly referred to as a low mileage poster, as if you have to be a long term member to assess the current state of the website, which is frankly all that matters. So while you guys are basking in the glory days of yore, I am just looking around to see what the website offers today. And I'll be looking to see what it offers tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bcooter on December 29, 2018, 06:04:25 pm

Frankly, the last great editorially provided photographs that grabbed my imagination ended with Michael. Recent reissues from Chris brought a few back, but they were legion during the early years I spent here.

Looking back is easy and often quite informative, just as it can be misleading in the light of new evidence. However, in the case of Michael, the stuff remains accessible if anyone searches the site. He knew what both he and photography were about. Many people do not know that much about themselves and why their stuff is what it is, good or otherwise.

Rob



I don’t know the inside information of the change in ownership, or really care to.  Just guessing but I assume the newish owners, want to draw in more participants and play to a younger generation than what we presently have.

This is not a knock on the site, the previous owners or the participants though there is a handful of prolific posters that I know what they will post just by reading their by line and the thread they are on. 

It’s more difficult today to share, because the web can be a dangerous place,  but I enjoyed the days of LL following the demise of the RG forums.   At that time LL was a place that had more participation of professionals and serious enthusiasts, from all walks of life, that talked technique, the reason for the imagery, how digital had changed image making and well a lot of topics.

I personally would like to see more photographs with an explanation of the story line, or the reason (if there is one) something that we can learn from. If the gear used for a specific reason then mention it, without it being about brand worship, which usually ends with your camera s___s, no your camera s___s and then it morphs into brand wars.   

Maybe it’s just the way of the times, But there is about 6 people that get my attention.   Rob C brings up (with links) interesting past photographers whose work was the foundation of the art.   Ulf K is a walking encyclopedia of lighting, Chris Sanderson was always helpful on motion photography and Chris B, when he was posting always had something interesting to show, even though he worked in a different genre than I do.

People like I mentioned would be a great interview and as far as I can tell are not aligned with any one make or brand, or type of camera.   An interview series  like the SAG/AFTRA Foundation Conversations.   Since they interview actors you would think it would all be about acting, though if you watch them they offer up a world of information about the film and television industry and really open up, mostly because the moderator brings it out of them and has no agenda to sell a lens, a brand or a cup of coffee.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6evbhSIME

Or the Variety magazine video round tables

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4KHeBSRLrM

Personally I’d like to see more attention given to motion capture as this seems to be the way the industry is moving, either with dedicated video and cinema production or combination still and motion production, which is more difficult than people know.

I’d love to see an interview of a film only still photographer, their background and why they went that way, what is their workflow like and how the heck do they travel by air with 200 rolls of film.

Or why someone that shot film for years even moved to digital.

I’m not suggesting this turn into a professional only site, because dedicated enthusiasts add a lot of good content and information and though this is only aesthetics but I’d love to see a more modern design, especially for the forums. 

Just my opinion.

BC
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on December 29, 2018, 07:45:36 pm
The reason one manages the details of a transition of this is because the details constitute a language. By executing these corporate maneuvers one way or another way, with one phrasing or another, with "best wishes" on the one hand and "thanks" on the other, the new management communicates with the workers, the customers, the suppliers, the audience

The reason for this communication is that the workers, customers, suppliers, audience have allegiances, loyalties, griefs, history.

Josh's article on the front page could readily be read, in the codes of this language, as a dismissal not of Kevin, but of what Kevin stands for, and of the people who ally themselves with Kevin. As someone who rather likes Kevin, I find myself bemused by this. Am, ever so subtly, receiving a kiss-off, or is it just the clumsy wording of a boy who does not speak this particular language?

I don't know and, in the end, I do not care much.

On a separate note, while I certainly would not recommend rushing in  to things, the reality is that LuLa has been publishing on a 3 day schedule for some time. This means that the regular readers have a particular rhythm of visits. Some may visit daily, others weekly, but the expect content "about every three days". Miss that expectation even once, and some small percentage of readers will not visit on their regular schedule. Miss it twice, and you really start dropping readers.

If LuLa goes 2 weeks without new content, traffic will drop precipitously. Now, those same readers will (mostly) poke back in in a month or a year, in an idle moment, and you have a chance to re-hook them, to get them on to their regular schedule of clicking. But they're gone for now, and have to be earned back.

You do get a bit of a break over the holiday, probably, which may explain the timing. Or maybe not. I don't presume to know.

But the truth is that speed is, truly, of the essence. LuLa is not a magazine subscription, the postman will not faithfully deliver the next issue.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alistair on December 29, 2018, 08:14:49 pm
Very best of luck to Kevin and Chris on your new endeavors. When I saw the recent developments, I took a look back at the articles from recent years. When viewed as a body of work there is some fantastic stuff here and clearly a LOT of work and time has been invested. Great value for the modest subscription we pay.

To those taking over, the very best of luck in finding the right model for LL's future. Instagram aside, anything photography-related is now highly challenging. Especially if you wish to retain a modicum of self-respect!

But LL is still a respected and well-recognised brand that has fared comparatively well under the outgoing custodianship and that is a good place to start.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Richard Man on December 29, 2018, 10:16:16 pm
Full on display of "Haters goin' hate" and dumb people bigotry ;-) Ha ha.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Robert Roaldi on December 29, 2018, 10:19:57 pm
I got none, so my impression is solely based on the article and subsequent commentaries. And that impression is that we are witnessing a coup d'etat by a Young Turk. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.

My advice would be for you to switch to decaf.  Seriously.  :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 29, 2018, 10:20:21 pm
Full on display of "Haters goin' hate" and dumb people bigotry ;-) Ha ha.

Which one are you?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Richard Man on December 30, 2018, 12:45:46 am
My advice would be for you to switch to decaf.  Seriously.  :)

I'm afraid decaf ain't going to do it.

Anyway, back to OP: good luck to everyone past and present involved with the enterprise. There were lots of hard work done, which we sideliners appreciate, and there will be lots more hard work.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: adias on December 30, 2018, 02:09:32 am
Oh my! Just in time as my subscription expired and i was debating about renewing it... I will not, as I will take a wait and see approach! The subscription was justified on the expectation of Michael-level content not fluffy stuff, so we shall see.

We know now who Josh is, even though (as some already stated) if he was part of LuLa and so qualified we should have heard about him a long time ago. Now... who is Irene and what are her qualifications?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dan Wells on December 30, 2018, 02:48:39 am
I'm very interested to see what Josh and co. come up with.

My personal wishes would be:

More content on the art of photography (Alain Briot's articles are excellent - I hope he's still involved). This is unique, with the possible exception of a couple of high-quality print magazines.

Interviews with photographers would be wonderful, hopefully with both text and video - not just video-only.

More extensive text/image articles - everything's moving to video these days (not just LL, but around the web), and it's not the best medium for everything.

A continuation of LL's uniqueness where gear articles are concerned - most reviews here are very different from DPReview and friends - there are  many fewer test charts and more actual photographs. Long-form actual-use reviews are great, as are reviews of things that are less frequently reviewed (printers, papers, odd lenses, etc.).

We don't need another review that says " the Nikon Z7 is a seriously high-resolution body with good to great lenses and AF that is slow for certain applications". Anybody with any interest in the Z7 knows that - but what's it like to shoot one for several months?  As a landscape photographer? How are the big prints looking?

Only Keith at Northlight seriously reviews printers, apart from LL. Really good imaging software reviews (that aren't sponsored) are rare...

Since LL and Rockhopper are no longer affiliated, I look forward to no longer seeing Rockhopper ads disguised as articles...

 Reviews of workshops and other educational opportunities (whether participant trip reports or more detailed reviews) would be wonderful - nobody does that - but they have to be real articles, not thinly disguised ads.

Nobody except The Online Photographer reviews books of photographs, and it would be great to have a second source. Nobody at all seems to review technique books (not the "mastering xxx camera" kind, but the less common things like Jeff Schewe's Digital Negative and Digital Print series).

Of course, we won't see all of these, but any would be great.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: TommyWeir on December 30, 2018, 06:11:50 am
I see some of the toxic political commentary that made the forum problematic has already returned in this series of posts, I trust Chris and Kevin have briefed Josh and Irene on all that.  Keep matters photographic and I'll be happy to stick around.

All that Josh said for future plans sounds good to me.  Let the new crew at it, I say, let's see what you bring. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: elliot_n on December 30, 2018, 06:30:10 am
As a dabbler in the dharma, I'm intrigued that we now have a Buddhist at the helm. Best of luck, Josh and Irene — I wish you well.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: vjbelle on December 30, 2018, 07:34:55 am
I got none, so my impression is solely based on the article and subsequent commentaries. And that impression is that we are witnessing a coup d'etat by a Young Turk. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.

+1

Victor
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ray Harrison on December 30, 2018, 08:57:28 am
I'm here, "low mileage forum user" as I am, because I enjoy making images and the processes, tools, and most importantly, the minds around it. Photography is an art, craft and story telling vehicle and images are created in multiple ways (film, digital and all of the various categories of those media) and are made visible in many ways, from galleries and theaters to YouTube and Instagram. A site that seriously explores the creation of images and making them visible and the people who do so is very valuable, in my mind (not to mention fairly unique on the web).

At the end of the day, while I'd love to have had a better visible manifestation of what was likely a reasonably long (possibly bitter) behind-the-scenes transition process, all office politics is pretty tedious and for the most part dull. Similar in tediousness to discussions of state and national politics. I'm ready to see what Josh & Irene bring to the table, giving them a laurel and hardy handshake and wishing Kevin and Chris all the best, thanking them for their outstanding contributions to the site over the years/decades.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Manoli on December 30, 2018, 09:08:50 am
...  but I enjoyed the days of LL following the demise of the RG forums.   At that time LL was a place that had more participation of professionals and serious enthusiasts, from all walks of life, that talked technique, the reason for the imagery, how digital had changed image making and well a lot of topics.

This. Just this ^^.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 09:37:22 am
... We know now who Josh is, even though (as some already stated) if he was part of LuLa and so qualified we should have heard about him a long time ago. Now... who is Irene and what are her qualifications?

Josh was busy meditating.

Irene is experienced in “film, architecture, and opera... and currently pursuing a Masters of Design in Strategic Foresight and Innovation.” The future seems bright.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 30, 2018, 09:45:15 am
Bcooter comes up with his usual good sense, based on invaluable present-day experience of what the international photographic business is all about.

The gradual strangulation of print space for photographs has seen famous newspapers shed their photo staff and even the glossy fashion mags cut back on their erstwhile monthly travel fashion features, which was one of the lures that many photographers found irresistible about fashion photography, the hell with magazine pay rates. So where has the work gone? Seems to me that the Internet has become the replacement vehicle for much stuff, including for those mags such as Vogue that have a presence both on paper and on screen. The thing about screen presence, however, is that it has few limits, and you can put motion there whereas it's impossible within the pages of the glossiest of magazines. So yeah, articles on motion will appeal to a lot of young people with their futures ahead of them. Thinking of a career in photography was once a rare concept: most people only thought of pro photographers as those guys on the High Street shooting passports, portraits, weddings, pets and babies (interchangeable?), dances and like that. Naturally enough, with no other rôle models available, few people chose the life of the professional snapper.

Post Blow-Up, however, the blinkers were forever off, and youngsters who'd never touch a fashion magazine (ashamed, would you believe?) began to equate photography with an attractive sort of sexy lifestyle, with photographs a million miles removed from the grim stuff under the counter of their local french letter shoppe. Jerry Hall confirms that she owed her affair with Bryan Ferry to Norman Parkinson's swimsuit shots of her in Vogue. Photography, music, sex, youthfull fashion and makeup, all the things young people love were suddenly upon us during that once-in-a-lifetime epoch called the Sixties/Seventies. You can't stuff those dreams back away again, because now people have discovered that, as with the lottery, folks actually do get to win the prize. It's a different one today, I guess, but for the select few (it was ever thus) it exists and works.

LuLa could be a great vehicle for nurturing this kind of interest; all sorts of photographs get used in all kinds of ways and of all manner of subjects. Landscape, sports, art gallery, think of a genre and somewhere there's its outlet. Mostly, you need passion, freedom and youth to pull it off. Without enough drive - it won't happen.

If anything, maybe LuLa needs to broaden its scope and pull in a lot of new editorial/contributor blood. There is absolutely no requirement for its owners to be wonderful photographers: what they have to be are good editors and writers. Britain's Photography magazine, a far cry from the then stuffy AP, owed its appeal to Norman Hall, a wonderful editor with a great knowledgs of who was who in the photo world. If I had the magic wand, I'd like to see a coming together of three sites: LuLa, Mike's The Online Photographer and Tim's Leicaphilia. Those two guys have charisma, and both write very well indeed on all sorts of topics you'd not think a photographer would necessarily find interesting, which shows how wrong one can be. Tim's also a great photographer in his own right in the sort of photo genre that attracts me today, and remains possible to do without external help, models or money. 

Guess we shall just have to wait and see. In the interim, I wish this place good luck; I have enjoyed a lot of it, even if some has had quite the opposite effect on my soul.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 09:46:57 am
Josh was busy meditating.

Irene is experienced in “film, architecture, and opera... and currently pursuing a Masters of Design in Strategic Foresight and Innovation.” The future seems bright.

Why? What do you base that assumption on?

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 09:49:42 am
Why? What do you base that assumption on?

Life experience.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 30, 2018, 10:00:22 am
Life experience.


Neat dodge! Do you dance?

Interestingly, in just a few days, this thread has had 5665 views but only 162 posts. There is much to be mined from that ratio.

;-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 10:11:46 am
Life experience.

Meaning, ... you have the same education and mindset, and thus know what to expect?

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 10:15:23 am
Meaning, ... you have the same education and mindset, and thus know what to expect?

Bart, it is like with jokes: if I need to explain it to you, either the joke is not good or you don’t have a sense of humor.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jonathan Cross on December 30, 2018, 10:18:31 am
9 pages already!  There have been a variety of comments about the manner of the announcement and plenty of ideas.  In my neck of the woods, businesses would sometimes announce bad news on a Friday or just before a holiday, so that people would have a few days to get their feelings a little under control.  For that reason it is no surprise that there is some wonder about how the change has come about, despite Kevin and Chris's comments.  As I wrote earlier, I am very sad to see them go, but it has happened and I will wait to see what transpires.  As has been pointed out, people will not wait for long to see output from the new management.  I hope Josh and Irene show their hand soon.

Best wishes,


Jonathan

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 30, 2018, 10:55:53 am
Oh my! Just in time as my subscription expired and i was debating about renewing it... I will not, as I will take a wait and see approach! The subscription was justified on the expectation of Michael-level content not fluffy stuff, so we shall see.

Good plan. You wouldn't want to waste 12 bucks.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 11:07:10 am
Bart, it is like with jokes: if I need to explain it to you, either the joke is not good or you don’t have a sense of humor.

So if it was (like) a joke (despite the missing emoticon), it was probably not a good one.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on December 30, 2018, 11:08:01 am
Josh was busy meditating.

Irene is experienced in “film, architecture, and opera... and currently pursuing a Masters of Design in Strategic Foresight and Innovation.” The future seems bright.
You left out Contemplative Psychotherapy which is an invaluable trait for this website.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 11:09:44 am
You left out Contemplative Psychotherapy which is an invaluable trait for this website.

+2

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 11:12:28 am
...(despite the missing emoticon)...

The need to have emoticons in order to understand if something is humor is a clear sign of the lack of the sense of humor.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 11:39:44 am
The need to have emoticons in order to understand if something is humor is a clear sign of the lack of the sense of humor.

Talking in riddles isn't necessarily a sign of intelligence. So an emoticon could help.

'Humor' at the expense of one's hosts is simply bad manners.

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 30, 2018, 11:45:40 am
Good plan. You wouldn't want to waste 12 bucks.

I don't know if you remember Dark Penguin; he used to post here in the rosy past, and to me, his big quality was the one-liner. He got so good at it that, in the end, his posts vanished completely, which I guess is a sort of culmination, an ultimate success, as it were.

Your line above reminded me of him.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 11:59:22 am
I don't know if you remember Dark Penguin; he used to post here in the rosy past, and to me, his big quality was the one-liner. He got so good at it that, in the end, his posts vanished completely, which I guess is a sort of culmination, an ultimate success, as it were.

Your line above reminded me of him.

;-)

Now this is funny!

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: mecrox on December 30, 2018, 12:02:52 pm
Many thanks to those bowing out and to those bowing in. I enjoy visiting this site and I know it takes a very great deal of time and hard work to deliver a good one. Everything changes. Onwards and upwards!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Robert Roaldi on December 30, 2018, 02:55:23 pm
Josh was busy meditating.

Irene is experienced in “film, architecture, and opera... and currently pursuing a Masters of Design in Strategic Foresight and Innovation.” The future seems bright.

You seem to be genetically incapable of not insulting people. Even people you don't know. Even people who didn't provoke you.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 03:26:24 pm
You seem to be genetically incapable of not insulting people. Even people you don't know. Even people who didn't provoke you.

Insulting? Which part was not factual?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 04:27:50 pm
Insulting? Which part was not factual?

The assumption part?

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 04:28:56 pm
The assumption part?

Which assumption?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 04:42:40 pm
Which assumption?

The assumption that you're joking?

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 05:27:15 pm
The assumption that you're joking?

Nothing in what i said in that post was joking. Simple facts. Josh business web site is offering meditation services. The quotes for Irine are from her LinkedIn profile.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jonathan Cross on December 30, 2018, 05:28:56 pm
Oh, another instance of sparring in a public forum; switch off time for me.


Jonathan



Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Richard Man on December 30, 2018, 05:29:27 pm
I didn't know opinions == facts in some circles ;-) Which one? You know, the random political dig and "I am just wishing people best" when even a 9 year old can see through the "funny". Old men who think they are funny are usually just funny old men, and yes, that's my opinion, not a fact.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 05:34:27 pm
I didn't know opinions == facts in some circles...

Which of my opinions I presented as facts? In the quoted part, that is the subject of the latest exchange? Your reference to political digs does not count, as I did not present it as facts, but clearly my opinion.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Robert Roaldi on December 30, 2018, 05:41:06 pm
Insulting? Which part was not factual?

I must have been reading between the lines. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that people with life experience sometimes do that.  ;)

But that's enough of that for me.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 05:48:09 pm
I must have been reading between the lines. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that people with life experience sometimes do that.  ;)...

Fair enough. So you were reading between the lines. Which part was then insulting? Stating their experience is insulting? Do I think (between the lines) that their non-existent photographic experience does not bode well for the photography-related site? Maybe I do, maybe I do not. Either way, why is that assumption "insulting"? I am open to the possibility that total outsiders might prove to be great photo-site editors, as Rob hinted. I remain doubtful, but that is not insulting.

EDIT: However, you reference to my genetic structure is personal and insulting
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Manoli on December 30, 2018, 06:14:47 pm
Suggestion to the new administration:
Limit member’s posts to a maximum of 2 a day and it’ll help preclude unhelpful interjections.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: FranciscoDisilvestro on December 30, 2018, 07:27:16 pm
Suggestion to the new administration:
Limit member’s posts to a maximum of 2 a day and it’ll help preclude unhelpful interjections.

That would be a very bad idea
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Two23 on December 30, 2018, 09:07:45 pm
The assumption part?

Cheers,
Bart

Which assumption?




And......................they're off!   ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h40JFH9YHM




Kent in SD,
A lesser forum member
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Bart_van_der_Wolf on December 30, 2018, 09:08:07 pm
Do I think (between the lines) that their non-existent photographic experience does not bode well for the photography-related site? Maybe I do, maybe I do not.

So which is it? Do you or don't you?
Why the smoke screen?

Either way, you might have arguments to state your case.
If you do, why not share them?
If not, then why raise the issue(?), to begin with?

Cheers,
Bart
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Richard Man on December 30, 2018, 09:33:48 pm
I once was on a forum where the owner/mod came up with a great solution for "problematic people". I think it required a custom mod of the forum software. Anyway, whenever the PP post, they could see their posts, so they think everything is working great, but no one else can. I guess it just set a global ignore. Anyway, no one engages the PP, and they eventually stop.

It's gaslighting people, so it's a bit rude, but do bring some satisfaction.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 09:35:38 pm
So which is it? Do you or don't you?
Why the smoke screen?

Either way, you might have arguments to state your case.
If you do, why not share them?
If not, then why raise the issue(?), to begin with?

Bart, it is not like you to suddenly lose the ability to understand a simple context in English. You have cut off my full paragraph in quoting me above.

The "Maybe I do, maybe I do not" is simply a rhetorical introduction to the next sentence:

Quote
Maybe I do, maybe I do not. Either way, why is that assumption "insulting"?

In other words, I was explaining that what I personally think is irrelevant for the purpose of determining the "insulting" part, because, either way, it isn't insulting.

In any case, I did state my position, obvious from the whole paragraph: I remain doubtful that non-existing experience in the photographic world bodes well for a photo-centric web site. I do not see how "remaining doubtful" constitutes an insult.

I have not raised the issue. Several forum members raised it in prior posts. As a matter of fact, my post was in response to one such question regarding experience and qualifications of the new site owners.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on December 30, 2018, 09:53:09 pm
I once was on a forum where the owner/mod came up with a great solution for "problematic people". I think it required a custom mod of the forum software. Anyway, whenever the PP post, they could see their posts, so they think everything is working great, but no one else can. I guess it just set a global ignore. Anyway, no one engages the PP, and they eventually stop.

It's gaslighting people, so it's a bit rude, but do bring some satisfaction.

You mean when you can not come up with logical arguments, you resort to gaslighting? Sure.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: kimballistic on December 31, 2018, 03:23:15 am
I once was on a forum where the owner/mod came up with a great solution for "problematic people". I think it required a custom mod of the forum software. Anyway, whenever the PP post, they could see their posts, so they think everything is working great, but no one else can. I guess it just set a global ignore. Anyway, no one engages the PP, and they eventually stop.

It's gaslighting people, so it's a bit rude, but do bring some satisfaction.
You mean when you can not come up with logical arguments, you resort to gaslighting? Sure.

That's most definitely not gaslighting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting).  It's shadow banning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banning).
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Tony Ovens on December 31, 2018, 05:53:14 am
Perhaps it all depends on how folks use what LuLa offers.
1. I have enjoyed and benefited from the main articles (well most of them) for many years and in the days when MR was the boss, like many others I bought various 'products' to assist me getting into digital, the LR tutorials for example. I only clicked into the Forum much later.
2. Of course, once in, the Forum provides much interesting reading! I like the Coffee corner for its everything goes possibilities, I like the User Critiques, But Is it Art and Discussing Photographic Styles. I look at the pictures posted in other areas too. But I've only posted a couple of times - see later.
3. Of all the contributors I have found RobC's contributions always worth reading and worth thinking on. Here is someone with a wealth of experience in photographic practice, well read, and who it seems to me can offer rounded and grounded views that I hope he won't mind me saying, show the sort of wisdom that age can accumulate. And I always follow up his music links, great stuff!
4.There have been a few comments recently deprecating contributions from "old men". No doubt the authors of these comments could explain themselves (possibly even explain without rudeness...) For myself, falling into said category, I often think society might think a bit more kindly and with more consideration, some of the older generation may just have useful ideas to offer.
5. The current spat between a few on the Forum about the Changing Landscape seems very tedious to me. Change is inevitable everywhere and in any business changes at the top are probably best left unexplained to the punters, it is inevitably a take it or leave it situation anyway. I'm OK with the change, I like Josh's article on Michael LeBlanc. Refreshing, different, interesting.
6.Lastly, infrequency of posting should not be interpreted as indicating a lack of enthusiasm for photography, or a lack of photographic experience it might just to do with prioritizing what to do with whatever time one has left.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on December 31, 2018, 06:20:37 am
I once was on a forum where the owner/mod came up with a great solution for "problematic people". I think it required a custom mod of the forum software. Anyway, whenever the PP post, they could see their posts, so they think everything is working great, but no one else can. I guess it just set a global ignore. Anyway, no one engages the PP, and they eventually stop.

Problematic to whom? This is a chat - sometimes wanders off topic, sometimes gets excited, rarely obscures information for those seeking it. For the record, I disagree with practically everything Slobodan says (on any topic) and I suspect the feeling is mutual. I also recognise that he is a better photographer than me, and also that, whatever our differences, we choose to air opinions in the same way. I suspect that if we ever met in real life we'd get on famously.

Which is a long way of saying that the denizens of Lula have more that unites them than divides them, in which context "problematic people" aren't really a problem.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on December 31, 2018, 08:55:57 am
Change is often good, we shall see.

For now, I want to thank the ones departing for the excellent work done, and I wish good luck to the new comers.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on December 31, 2018, 11:26:23 am
Again this thread has degenerated into personal tit-for-tat exchanges which will not do much for the quality or future of this site that we all profess to value - I realize that it is tempting much like the political exchanges of a few months ago - but could we please keep our egos in check and concentrate on photography and RELATED subjects ??

The first Josh article is an excellent start and the first substantive evidence we have of the direction of the changes after all of the supposition and speculation of the last few days .... and a good indicator that this site may be about to return to the artistic, intellectual and courteous standards that Michael originally established. I hope for much more in like vein.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: hubell on December 31, 2018, 01:03:53 pm
I got none, so my impression is solely based on the article and subsequent commentaries. And that impression is that we are witnessing a coup d'etat by a Young Turk.

There are a number of possibilities behind the transition here. A coup d'etat by a "young Turk" is A possibility, but there is another possibility, which is that there was an attempted coup d'etat that was resisted by the family that actually owned the business. I have seen that happen in business many times. Stuff happens in business between otherwise good and reasonable people. At the end of the day, it is really not our business to know their business. Hopefully, we can judge Josh's operation of the site on the merits over time. If you don't like it, you can vote with your wallet and save $12 per year. Taking over your father's business, particularly one as successful and ground breaking as LuLa, is a tough assignment. I wish him (and Kevin and Chris) the best.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Peter McLennan on December 31, 2018, 01:19:12 pm

Quote
want to draw in more participants and play to a younger generation than what we presently have.

Yes. Nearly everybody here is the same as me.  Old, opinionated and boring.

Quote
I personally would like to see more photographs with an explanation of the story line, or the reason (if there is one) something that we can learn from.
Yes. More of the "why" and "how" and less of the "what".

Quote
more attention given to (stills and) motion capture...which is more difficult than people know.
Yes.

Quote
I’d love to see a more modern design, especially for the forums.

Yes.  Especially better search functionality.

More videos like the ones with Charlie Cramer.  Those were inspiring, informational and entertaining.
Less of the videos where special interests talked about gear while drinking alcohol.

Some kind of reward system for those who contribute more than acerbic and reactionary comments in the forum and who create useful articles for the site as a whole. This might inspire some of us to do more for the community and less for ourselves. 

Yes, before the pitchforks appear: as a sometime article producer for this and other sites, I know this is self-serving.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on December 31, 2018, 03:17:05 pm
I liked the article Josh wrote by way of introduction. It was enjoyable to read. I hope things work out for LuLa. Despite contributing fairly regularly on the forums I have felt the site doesn’t have much relevance for me. I visit mostly out of loyalty, habit and hope. Perhaps a change would suit me better.

I like the idea of a meditator and Buddhist running the site. Let’s see if that has any kind of impact.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Al DaValle on December 31, 2018, 03:35:36 pm
Congratulations Josh.  I am rooting for your success as Lula is one of a very few photography sites I go to almost everyday.

I'd like to wish Chris a heartfelt thank you and goodbye.  Your contribution to the success of Lula has been huge and much appreciated.  I'm not sure you recall meeting each other, but I certainly enjoyed getting to know a bit more in person while we were in Algonquin.  All the best to you and your family.

Kevin, I have enjoyed getting to know you and greatly appreciate all your talent and hard work in helping Lula move forward after Michaels passing.  He left big shoes to fill and you did a wonderful job.  I especially appreciate your willingness to really take time to listen to your readers feedback.  I wish you and Debra all the best!

Input for Josh....I don't participate much in the forum but I visit the site just about everyday.  Here is some unsolicited input for you as you set your course for the future.  Obviously....these are simply one reader's inputs.

1.  I would appreciate more high quality videos like the old LLVJ's.
2.  I also always enjoy the long format video interviews of legends of the art form.
3.  I would prefer less focus on gear (especially silly little trinkets) and more time spent on the art of photography and the lives of photographers. 
4.  But.....don't get me wrong, I love gear as much as the next guy.  Its just that there are already so many websites that specialize in doing detailed and technical reviews of new gear.  Why try to compete with that.  Besides...this type of content has a useful shelf-life of months and add little to the long term archives LULA has been creating for many years.  However, I do really enjoy detailed, real life in-the-field reviews of new cameras and gear if that gear is truly new, innovative and worth the time.  The old LLVJs did a great job of combining new gear reviews with very interesting discussions on the art of photography...usually in interesting and beautiful locations.  That was a great formula!  And since (at least I assume) you will continue to accept no compensation from manufacturers......I am hopeful for a more critical assessment of the gear you do review.
4.  Given your own personal background and interest, I assume we will be seeing more content focused on video.  I have very little interest in video and would prefer the site maintain its focus on stills imagery (no matter how they are captured).

Josh...again...I am rooting for your success and look forward to the new perspective you will bring to LULA.

Warm regards,
Al


Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Klein on December 31, 2018, 04:23:48 pm
I think videos are helpful.  Learning better videography is important to me.  Since I have 4K video in my "stills" camera, I do use it especially when I travel or go on vacations.  Short clips combined with stills makeup nice story telling.  Most cameras today have video features so it's a natural to add them to our repertoires. I don't see this taking away from stills.  Just add another section to the forums and throw in articles and instructions for videography.  Moving Landscapes can be Luminous as well.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: luxborealis on December 31, 2018, 04:48:01 pm
Suggestion to the new administration:
Limit member’s posts to a maximum of 2 a day and it’ll help preclude unhelpful interjections.

+1

Or a4- to 6-hour wait time between posts on the same topic or something ANYTHING to prevent this ridiculous back and forth. Quickest way to ruin a good discussion!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 31, 2018, 04:52:03 pm
Just in passing: I do hope that Jeremy remains as a moderator.

He has done a sterling job since he took responsibility, and his occupation as a legal eagle gives him - I like to believe, as one of my granddaughters is one too - a good sense of proportion and perspective. 

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on December 31, 2018, 04:54:22 pm
Suggestion to the new administration:
Limit member’s posts to a maximum of 2 a day and it’ll help preclude unhelpful interjections.


That's nice; shall I shut my mouth right now or tomorrow?

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Joreur on December 31, 2018, 07:43:06 pm
This does seem like a sudden kicking out of the old guard. Based on the two articles published by the younger Reichman so far, whatever his talents are, writing is not one of them. Both articles are very badly written and if they are representative of the future of the site then I’m out
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on December 31, 2018, 08:09:08 pm

That's nice; shall I shut my mouth right now or tomorrow?

Rob
Wait another twenty years or so, Rob.
Your comments on the forum are the most consistently worth reading.

Eric
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bwalker on January 01, 2019, 12:08:48 am
I don't agree that it was ham-fisted. The readers and contributors to this site are not automatically entitled to know about the internal dealings of the site's management.

Robert, I think the problem, if indeed there is one, is that many of us looked at both Michael and Kevin as "friends" with the same interests.  You don't like to see bad things happen to your friends.  Now, I have no clue if blood has been spilled.  However, I really liked where Kevin was taking the site as time went on.  His last article I think was dated just a day or so before Christmas and then we see Josh's article dated the day after Christmas with no good-bye from my "friend" Kevin nor Chris.  And, obviously this all took place not so terribly long after Kevin spruced up headquarters a bit.  Am I entitled to an explanation? Absolutely not.  But it hurts a bit as stated previously Kevin and Chris never said good-bye.  I don't know about Chris but I feel confident Kevin would have said his good-bye's.  Of course, I could be wrong.

I imagine this website is not a real revenue producer but I could be totally off base on that.  Profitability, or lack thereof forces change.  Now this may be a problem just with me but I have never liked when someone uses the initials CEO along with their name.  I have been self-employed for most of my adult life although never ran a company that produced more than a couple of million dollars a year.  So I'm basically a nobody.  In my mind the term CEO really belongs with a Captain of Industry, not a small specialized website and certainly not beside my personal name; too much ego involved are my thought.  The CEO next to Josh's name caught my immediate attention.

Having said all that I came on board when the site was relatively new although I have rarely participated on the forum.  Out of respect for Michael's memory and for Kevin and Chris (who taught me things about video via LuLa so many years ago) I am more than willing to give Josh a chance despite the vibe I felt off the Changing Landscape contribution from Josh.  We'll see what happens with the change.

To me the site was never exciting but I looked forward to it a few times a week for a quality read and intelligent opinions.  The recent video's Kevin did at the distillery(?) with the camera store owners I felt brought some cool excitement and interest to the site.  It wasn't Netflix but in my opinion Kevin was doing something worthwhile.  I'm an old guy.  Josh brings in some fresh blood and may very well add some of his own excitement to the site.  Time will tell.  I still have to hope Kevin and Chris weren't bruised up in the changeover.

For the time being I will miss Kevin and Chris as I miss Michael.  As time goes on and trust develops hopefully Josh falls into the "friend" mode as well.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on January 01, 2019, 04:49:38 am
Wait another twenty years or so, Rob.
Your comments on the forum are the most consistently worth reading.

Eric

Eric, nice of you to say so, but then as I post so seldom...

Sunny day here, again, and the condensation marks on the french windows of the sitting room are, this morning, right up to my chin, which suggests it must have been one cold night! Those patches usually only make it to my knees. Of course, the room was pretty heated last night with Internet traffic, so that might have something to do with it.

Has anyone else become a bit bored looking at televised international fireworks displays of city father ego? Someone mentioned the tonnage of explosives fired off in London; all I could think of was the unnecessary, added pollution in the London atmosphere... those poor pigeons and starlings!

:-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on January 02, 2019, 05:49:04 am
...If I had the magic wand, I'd like to see a coming together of three sites: LuLa, Mike's The Online Photographer and Tim's Leicaphilia. Those two guys have charisma, and both write very well indeed on all sorts of topics you'd not think a photographer would necessarily find interesting, which shows how wrong one can be. Tim's also a great photographer in his own right in the sort of photo genre that attracts me today, and remains possible to do without external help, models or money...

Agreed, but that said what Mike and Tim have in common is that they both write really well on compelling subjects: surely a minimum requirement for a compelling site?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on January 02, 2019, 06:14:17 am
Agreed, but that said what Mike and Tim have in common is that they both write really well on compelling subjects: surely a minimum requirement for a compelling site?


You have a point, but it might be argued that this coming together could never happen because they, Mike and Tim, are fiercely independent minds, too, and I guess that makes close collaboration difficult, if not impossible to achieve. A blog is something quite other than a site such as this. I find that to be one of the problems with TOP: one is not supposed to reply directly to points raised by other posters, but strictly to the orginal post placed by the site owner. Tim, on the other hand, has no problem with chat.

In both cases, the frustration is always with the delay between posting and publication, and for understandable reasons, of course.

That said, the attraction of such a combination of characters is precisley in the power of the different minds, which woud give LuLa an even wider, more strong presence and appeal. I can imagine the delightful fights!

;-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: 32BT on January 02, 2019, 06:27:11 am
Don't forget Sean Reid at https://www.reidreviews.com

I know he once wrote an article on lensdrawing, also published here on LuLa, but I haven't been able to find it. If you really feel a need to read about the technicalities of the photographic process, his writing is probably second to none.

And for the younger crowd, I think there might be good a match with Mathieu and Heather over at https://www.mirrorlessons.com
They write well, with practical experience and actually useful and good photography by both of them.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: 32BT on January 02, 2019, 06:30:40 am

... I can imagine the delightful fights!

;-)

Rob

In search of good chemistry you apparently like fireworks more than your previous musings seemed to suggest... ;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on January 02, 2019, 07:30:24 am
In search of good chemistry you apparently like fireworks more than your previous musings seemed to suggest... ;-)

Oscar, I'm still under the influence of the unusual pressures (in the local ethos) due to the New Year! In a few days time I'll be back to my comfort zone, probably with more inspiring, upliftingly dark pictures. My wife was an analytical chemist, so chemistry has always inspired me, especially with model relationships, without which chemistry not a lot worthwhile happens other than, possibly, tears in the changing room. (I was a gentleman, and provided one. A room, I mean. Whether still a gentleman changes from day to day.)

;-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on January 02, 2019, 08:58:04 am
...I can imagine the delightful fights!

The political punch-ups are no more, only to be replaced by Street wars and fisticuffs over the future of this very website.

Let's face it, these shenanigans are amongst the finest content on this and any other forum.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: HSakols on January 02, 2019, 09:15:19 am
When I first read this post I thought that someone might have dosed my coffee.  I wish the best for Chris and Kevin and hope they still contribute on this site.  Josh you definately have an exciting job ahead of you.  I also find Joshes background with meditation somewhat refreshing. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on January 02, 2019, 09:32:28 am
When I first read this post I thought that someone might have dosed my coffee.  I wish the best for Chris and Kevin and hope they still contribute on this site.  Josh you definately have an exciting job ahead of you.  I also find Joshes background with meditation somewhat refreshing.

Meditation is too close to procrastination; far from being refreshing, not much gets done. When did you last see an excited or even exciting Buddha?

Christmas Humphries was about as interesting as it got - for me. But then, he went to Cambridge. In some cases, I went to Coventry.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: HSakols on January 02, 2019, 09:45:32 am
Quote
Meditation is too close to procrastination; far from being refreshing, not much gets done.

Not that I can even begin to argue with Rob C - I do like reading your contributions. 

Quite the opposite, people who meditate get things done and through practice can access other parts of their consciousness. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Robert Roaldi on January 02, 2019, 09:55:32 am
Meditation is too close to procrastination; far from being refreshing, not much gets done. When did you last see an excited or even exciting Buddha?

Keep an open mind. Who knows that goes on behind closed doors. ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 02, 2019, 10:06:45 am
Meditation is too close to procrastination; far from being refreshing, not much gets done. When did you last see an excited or even exciting Buddha?

Christmas Humphries was about as interesting as it got - for me. But then, he went to Cambridge. In some cases, I went to Coventry.

;-)

Rob you frequently make valuable contributions but to say meditation is close to procrastination is purest ignorance.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on January 02, 2019, 10:14:27 am
Rob you frequently make valuable contributions but to say meditation is close to procrastination is purest ignorance.

Even if it's followed by a wink.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: 32BT on January 02, 2019, 10:16:37 am
Meditation is too close to procrastination; far from being refreshing, not much gets done.

Sounds like a good match with photography then. What else is photography but one giant procrastination to getting a real job?

You should know, of all people! ;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 02, 2019, 10:24:36 am
...


Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on January 02, 2019, 12:18:09 pm
Rob you frequently make valuable contributions but to say meditation is close to procrastination is purest ignorance.


Hey, if I'd had been a girl they'd have called me Purity! Not Virginia; that's too open to doubt and procrastination before the attempt event; meditate upon that.

;-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on January 02, 2019, 12:28:15 pm
...
Hey, Slo! How come you using a photo of me without my permission??!!   >:(    :D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: StuartOnline on January 02, 2019, 01:06:58 pm
Sorry to hear that Kevin and Chris are leaving. Have enjoyed all of their hard work. 
I do understand changes, however until I know exactly what is going to happen with Luminous Landscape I have stopped my auto renewal.
The annual $12 which is currently charged is defiantly a bargain, but I need to know what lies ahead with the future of this site. 

Cheers!

Stu
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on January 02, 2019, 01:40:21 pm
Sorry to hear that Kevin and Chris are leaving. Have enjoyed all of their hard work. 
I do understand changes, however until I know exactly what is going to happen with Luminous Landscape I have stopped my auto renewal.
The annual $12 which is currently charged is defiantly a bargain, but I need to know what lies ahead with the future of this site. 

Cheers!

Stu

Stu, don't you think that your continued presence can only help keep LuLa going in the "right" direction, whatever that may mean?

If you leave, then that's one voice (vote/attitude/influence) the less in your preferred direction; quitting doesn't contribute anything positive from the quitter's point of view. They say about the lottery that you gotta be in it to win it; that principle applies across many fields, this one included.

:-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Two23 on January 02, 2019, 02:57:44 pm


If you leave, then that's one voice (vote/attitude/influence) the less in your preferred direction; quitting doesn't contribute anything positive from the quitter's point of view.


In the end, any internet forum is not about just one person, no matter who that may be.  It's the synergy developed from everyone as they interact.  The whole is greater than the sum of the parts.


Kent in SD,
A lesser forum member
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Hulyss on January 06, 2019, 03:35:13 pm
I did not read the whole thread but I perceived the usual behavior in the face of change: Good and bad, understanding and dubitativeness.
It's like that and it's normal.

For my part, I have always respected and greatly appreciated Michael and his inimitable style and was affected by his passing like everybody here. I also appreciate the familly buisness and I wanted to express a big "welcome" to Josh, Irene and the new team.


This domain is legendary and will continue to be.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 06, 2019, 04:40:12 pm
Suggestion to the new administration:
Limit member’s posts to a maximum of 2 a day and it’ll help preclude unhelpful interjections.

I don't believe there is a way of doing that; and I would reject it even if there were.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 06, 2019, 04:49:04 pm
Just in passing: I do hope that Jeremy remains as a moderator.

He has done a sterling job since he took responsibility, and his occupation as a legal eagle gives him - I like to believe, as one of my granddaughters is one too - a good sense of proportion and perspective. 

Thank you, Rob. I'm going nowhere.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Gerner on January 08, 2019, 10:10:02 am
Thank you, Rob. I'm going nowhere.

Jeremy

Good you are staying Jeremy.

My nose tells me, despite all what was mentioned and what were not, that LuLa will make a turn to the left leaving the straight road it has been on for quite a while. I am of course not clairvoyant, but I am very sad what happened. Just seeing the selections of articles since the shift, I am afraid that photographers will not be frequent fliers on the site anymore, but just visitors of the resort.

At least I can say for myself meaning my subscription will stop despite it's peanuts we are talking about. It's a signal I am sending.

I wish LuLa all well in the future.

Cheers
Gerner
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on January 08, 2019, 01:40:27 pm
Good you are staying Jeremy.

My nose tells me, despite all what was mentioned and what were not, that LuLa will make a turn to the left leaving the straight road it has been on for quite a while. I am of course not clairvoyant, but I am very sad what happened. Just seeing the selections of articles since the shift, I am afraid that photographers will not be frequent fliers on the site anymore, but just visitors of the resort.

At least I can say for myself meaning my subscription will stop despite it's peanuts we are talking about. It's a signal I am sending.

I wish LuLa all well in the future.

Cheers
Gerner

Gerner, give it a few months to find its new feet; it took me a couple of years to find mine when I stared my little business in photography: I swung from one desperate stance to another until the day I saw the light and put all of the few remaining eggs into one solitary basket and found, to my surprise and relief, that instead of giving me a cold omelette, the mother had grown wings!

These are very early days.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: davidgp on January 09, 2019, 09:54:12 am
Two weeks without visiting the site and everything changes... my concerns from this change were already expressed by a lot of people in this thread, so no point to reiterate them.

I want to wish the leaving LuLa staff members my best wishes in their new endeavors. I learned a lot thanks to them and I hope them the best...

Best wishes to the new management team...

Regards,

David
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on January 09, 2019, 10:43:09 am
I've just voted with my wallet - yes, I know, big deal, $12 - but it's something I've never had to do before as I've always had full access to the site.

I give thanks to the old and welcome the new.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: timo on January 12, 2019, 08:26:45 am
Seems more like a landslide to me.  Something is very odd about this sudden, previously unannounced sea change.  Why no hint of this from Kevin or Chris?  No “introduction” of Josh by the existing crew?   Something is rotten in Denmark, me thinks.

Rand

If Kevin has indeed left, I think his departure and his contribution over the years could have been marked a bit more generously than the brief, formulaic, corporatespeak mention that he actually got.  Gives the impression that the transition was not totally amicable, which is a bit sad, if true.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: wwlee on January 12, 2019, 11:23:58 am
I've been a member for around 5 yrs (going from memory). I was thrilled when I discovered LuLa because my passion in photography was landscape, and here was a site all about the adventure, the passion, the beauty and tranquility of nature, which activity (hiking and landscape photography) was my go-to when I wanted to escape from the pressures of life.... my zen.  I also greatly enjoy discussions of equipment and software with focus on creating great landscape photography and prints.  I didn't mind in the slightest when they started charging a nominal subscription fee because, if that's what it took to sustain a site I loved, then I'd gladly contribute.  It was sad when Michael passed, but the site continued under Kevin, although with a slightly different personal style and an evolution in focus in the content and the business model. 

I was a little shocked and definitely put off by the handling of the transition over the holidays.  Coming from the corporate world and having seen many changes in leadership, this was handled very poorly.  That's been discussed ad nauseum, so I won't dwell on it.  My concern now is the new leadership seems to have little to no background in landscape photography nor in running a business, which - combined with the poor transition and what looks like may be a major shift editorially - doesn't bode well for the site relative to what I've enjoyed.  It's only been a few weeks, but thus far I don't care for several of the articles or the editorial content dwelling on things like the philosophy of photography or wierd (IMO) people photos, for example.  It may appeal to others, but it's too "artsy fartsy" for my taste and is a million miles from what originally attracted me to LuLa.  (I don't say "artsy fartsy" to insult others who like that stuff... I just don't have another way of describing that type of writing/discussion.) So, with a bit of sadness, I wait to see how things evolve and hope they turn back to the passion and adventure for landscape photography. In case it doesn't, though, I too have put my subscription on hold so I don't accidentally renew in the future.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on January 12, 2019, 12:04:52 pm
I wait to see how things evolve and hope they turn back to the passion and adventure for landscape photography. .

Thanks, wwlee,

Landscape photography and the passion for it will certainly remain a fundamental focus. My own "artsy or weird" contributions will not be the only or even loudest ones. I wish I could be more transparent about the background of this transition, it remains a sensitive and personal issue. This is to protect all parties. I am sorry if that causes consternation for yourself or anyone who has been left frustrated by this shift. I feel that loyal readers in many ways are correct for demanding more explanation. For the time being, I've said all that I can.

I hope you'll check in to see where the new direction takes us in bridging the old with the new in ways which keep Lula's spirit more than intact, but rather reanimated!

Thank you.

Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: donsandersonroofing on January 15, 2019, 05:13:13 pm
Rob you frequently make valuable contributions but to say meditation is close to procrastination is purest ignorance.

Lighten up Dude!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 16, 2019, 01:04:48 am
Lighten up Dude!

Welcome to Lula. Dude.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: adri on January 17, 2019, 05:45:08 am
Sad news indeed, and surprising.

A fond farewell to Chris, who did so much behind the camera and, I suspect, behind the scenes to keep things running.

And a grateful thanks to Kevin: stepping into Michael’s place could not have been easy. What cannot be denied is your good nature and your tireless enthusiam for photography. Your love of the craft came through in every video and article ... even if not every camera was a DP Quattro Pro :)

Ken

I give me a break; why always pissing on Sigma cameras?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on January 17, 2019, 09:12:19 am
I give me a break; why always pissing on Sigma cameras?

I believe he is referring to a funny on-camera moment between my father and Kevin. Camera in question is central. I could be wrong.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ian99 on January 17, 2019, 02:06:14 pm
Changes are coming and I would like to add a few comments. I look at this site almost every day but post very little. This is because I come here to learn – techniques, styles, ideas, you name it, from a large group of like minded people. This site exists because people respect the others on the site and the management, and they feel that contributing is a worthwhile activity with its own rewards.

With that in mind I join with all the others who have offered their thanks and best wishes to Chris and Kevin, and I wish them well for the future.

But respect needs to be earned and the people here by and large offer huge amounts of evidence of their work and a long history of photographic talent. People like that want to relate to similar people. Forum posts and articles come here because it is a place to share knowledge.

It then becomes appropriate to review the background of the new management and I found a website from October 2017 promoting a meditational event hosted by Irene Cortes and Josh Reichman:

https://readymag.com/u57659439/831053/

They describe themselves as:

“About your hosts

Irene Cortes is a mother and longtime student of meditation, qigong and gongfu. She has studied the danjeon breathing tradition and seon meditation in Korea with masters in daily practice and in retreat, mentored in Shaolin xinyiba while living with Sifu Wu Nan Fang and his family in China and is a close student of Tibetan high lama Acharya Zasep Tulku Rinpoche.

Josh Reichman is a father and has been in recovery for over 13 years and is a student of Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism. Josh is a counselor practicing Contemplative Psychotherapy with a focus on addiction, offering meditation instruction and various spiritual healing practices.”

I don’t know about you but I am personally thrilled to contemplate a future for Lula unencumbered by classical photographic knowledge. Several of our most voluble forum denizens could do with spiritual healing and I can see thousands of respected photographers fighting for the privilege of contributing in a more contemplative framework.

Quite sincerely I look forward to learning a more meditative style of photography and I cannot wait to see the impact of danjeon breathing on camera reviews.

But I offer a warning. As a long time business consultant grossly overeducated with multiple degrees in real subjects, it seems to me that the accumulated respect that keeps this site going could disappear overnight unless managed carefully. Assuming Lula is a profitable enterprise I can see little that would stop Kevin and/or Chris from copying the concept and creating a Rockhoppalula or something similar.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on January 17, 2019, 02:20:24 pm
Quote
Assuming Lula is a profitable enterprise I can see little that would stop Kevin and/or Chris from copying the concept and creating a Rockhoppalula or something similar.

Rockhoppalula with the "On The Rocks" episodes would most likely cater to a different audience.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on January 17, 2019, 03:07:15 pm
Changes are coming and I would like to add a few comments. I look at this site almost every day but post very little. This is because I come here to learn – techniques, styles, ideas, you name it, from a large group of like minded people. This site exists because people respect the others on the site and the management, and they feel that contributing is a worthwhile activity with its own rewards.

With that in mind I join with all the others who have offered their thanks and best wishes to Chris and Kevin, and I wish them well for the future.

But respect needs to be earned and the people here by and large offer huge amounts of evidence of their work and a long history of photographic talent. People like that want to relate to similar people. Forum posts and articles come here because it is a place to share knowledge.

It then becomes appropriate to review the background of the new management and I found a website from October 2017 promoting a meditational event hosted by Irene Cortes and Josh Reichman:

https://readymag.com/u57659439/831053/

They describe themselves as:

“About your hosts

Irene Cortes is a mother and longtime student of meditation, qigong and gongfu. She has studied the danjeon breathing tradition and seon meditation in Korea with masters in daily practice and in retreat, mentored in Shaolin xinyiba while living with Sifu Wu Nan Fang and his family in China and is a close student of Tibetan high lama Acharya Zasep Tulku Rinpoche.

Josh Reichman is a father and has been in recovery for over 13 years and is a student of Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism. Josh is a counselor practicing Contemplative Psychotherapy with a focus on addiction, offering meditation instruction and various spiritual healing practices.”

I don’t know about you but I am personally thrilled to contemplate a future for Lula unencumbered by classical photographic knowledge. Several of our most voluble forum denizens could do with spiritual healing and I can see thousands of respected photographers fighting for the privilege of contributing in a more contemplative framework.

Quite sincerely I look forward to learning a more meditative style of photography and I cannot wait to see the impact of danjeon breathing on camera reviews.

But I offer a warning. As a long time business consultant grossly overeducated with multiple degrees in real subjects, it seems to me that the accumulated respect that keeps this site going could disappear overnight unless managed carefully. Assuming Lula is a profitable enterprise I can see little that would stop Kevin and/or Chris from copying the concept and creating a Rockhoppalula or something similar.

My 2 cents.

Well aren't you special.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 17, 2019, 03:39:50 pm
Rockhoppalula with the "On The Rocks" episodes would most likely cater to a different audience.

Different audience, Les? Are you assuming some sort of New Puritans backlash against consuming alcohol? Or is it because it is on the rocks? Would serving it neat alleviate the concern?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on January 17, 2019, 03:52:38 pm
Nothing wrong with visual images of amber-coloured liquids or red-cheeked and cheerful presenters.
I was referring more to the content. I'd take instead Charlie Cramer musing in the woods and playing piano anytime.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 17, 2019, 04:10:28 pm
... I cannot wait to see the impact of danjeon breathing on camera reviews...

I do not know about camera reviews, but it might be a huge help in hand-held shots.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on January 17, 2019, 04:50:44 pm
I do not know about camera reviews, but it might be a huge help in hand-held shots.

Actually true.

FYI Irene works in computer imaging. You know, photography, but with ... computers.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 17, 2019, 05:05:12 pm
...FYI Irene works in computer imaging. You know, photography, but with ... computers.

Aren’t we all these days.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on January 17, 2019, 05:19:17 pm
Aren’t we all these days.

You must know some holdouts?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on January 17, 2019, 06:18:10 pm

Quote
Quote from: josh.reichmann on Today at 04:50:44 PM
...FYI Irene works in computer imaging. You know, photography, but with ... computers.

Aren’t we all these days.

Yeah, but some of her photogrammetry images could be bigger than yours.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on January 18, 2019, 11:19:28 am
Quote
. . . I can see little that would stop Kevin and/or Chris from copying the concept and creating . . .

One can only hope . . .

Rand
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rado on January 18, 2019, 11:50:39 am
I have to say I'm enjoying the new material published on the main site.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Two23 on January 18, 2019, 12:07:11 pm
You must know some holdouts?


For the past year I've been concentrating on using dry plates and lenses from either the 1850s or 1910s.  Even I scan the plates and finish in CC.  This year I hope to learn wet plate with goal of making contact prints.


Kent in SD
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on January 18, 2019, 12:47:08 pm
I have to say I'm enjoying the new material published on the main site.

Likewise. A welcome change from Sony ads and apple cider philosophies.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: svein.eriksen@gmail.com on January 30, 2019, 09:04:08 am
Like many others I'm a surprised by the change. I certainly dont need all the details and reasons behind the change, but a bit more openness about what's happening would have been nice as the people behind the site are so much more visible than on most other photo sites.

Anyway, good luck the new management and I hope we'll continue to see interesting content. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: rmazzi on January 30, 2019, 06:15:43 pm
I rarely post, and when I do, its usually for help on an issue.  These forums have always been incredibly useful for a rank amateur like me.  Huge knowledge in the community and an incredible willingness to share information.  I hope that never changes. 

As a newbie, but have been on the site for quite a few years, I have taken more than given in knowledge.  LuLa has been my source of education and inspiration for photography.  I am forever grateful to the late founder and all the current and past contributors.

The changes were abrupt and disconcerting, but I quickly got over that.  Looking forward here are some of the things I hope to see or not see on LuLa in the future.  This is just input, do what you will with it and other input, but I will continue to be a member.  I figure this particular thread is a good place to provide the input. 

I have enjoyed the new artists featured and hope to see that continue to expand in variety.  I am sure to love some and hate others, but learning comes from listening to different points of view. 

I gained a lot from the videos like the masters series (e.g. William Neill, Charlie Cramer).  I hope there are some new video interviews and topics to complement the essays.  Stand alone video interviews with some of the new emerging artists would be great as well as videos with more established masters.

I don't see much value in spending time with camera reviews.  There is so much out there already.  Leave discussion on new equipment in the forums.  However there may be some products that aren't covered, but are really useful for the creative process and technique. 

I have liked the emphasis on producing prints as part of the photographic process.  I don't consider a photo finished for me until it is printed.  Continuing to provide information on papers, ink, technologies, alternative printing methods, etc. would be great.  Special shout out to Mark Segal - his depth of knowledge on printing and scanning is incredible and he is a star in offering advice and help in the forums.  I hope he continues to contribute.

Finally, as much a question as a comment:  Where does Youtube fit into the LuLa strategy?  I wasn't clear on what value was added when that started and it can degrade the value of the LuLa site.  I would rather come here, than spend time on Youtube being bombarded with the latest Johnny Carson clip or other click bait on Youtube.

Thanks for listening.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on January 30, 2019, 06:33:00 pm
Useful comment,
Much appreciated

Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on January 30, 2019, 09:14:08 pm
The value of LuLa for me has been significantly enhanced over the years through videos with photographers like Art Wolfe, Charles Cramer and others, as well as through videos regarding processing, color management, printing and photo archiving/display/sales (as well as equipment) by Michael himself and through collaborations with experts such as Bill Atkinson, Jeff Schewe, and many more. 

It’s not enough for me to read essays or interviews with photographers.  I’m looking for more interactive and in-depth exchanges with experts on practical workflow issues that many of us face.  My focus remains on still photography and printing. The writing style since the transition is still not my cup of tea, but Michael set a high bar that even Kevin couldn’t match. Videos would be a nice change of pace; more personal, engaging and informative. (Kevin’s Leica interviews, especially with Dr. Kaufmann, were particularly educational.)

Besides, unless we’re able to see and bond with the people behind the site, I doubt we’ll ever fully embrace its content.  That’s part of what has always distinguished LuLa from various other photo sites. This won’t happen through articles, no matter how well presented.

I’m skeptical, but will give it some time.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: alainbriot on January 31, 2019, 11:46:17 am

It’s not enough for me to read essays or interviews with photographers.  I’m looking for more interactive and in-depth exchanges with experts on practical workflow issues that many of us face. (. . . ) Unless we’re able to see and bond with the people behind the site, I doubt we’ll ever fully embrace its content.  That’s part of what has always distinguished LuLa from various other photo sites.
Jeff

Great idea.  I am more than willing to participate and answer questions on the forum or over email, which I do regularly in fact.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on January 31, 2019, 11:52:39 am
Great idea.  I am more than willing to participate and answer questions on the forum or over email, which I do regularly in fact.

No, I was referring to more video content, with Josh and other site contributors interacting with photographers and experts in the field. I don’t need or want any reader interactions beyond the forum.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: alainbriot on January 31, 2019, 11:56:58 am
Thanks for the clarification.  Great idea as well.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on January 31, 2019, 12:26:11 pm
Thanks for the clarification.  Great idea as well.

It was Michael’s idea, and worked well for many years.  I want more of the same.  But probably wishful thinking; the contributors are the key.  Michael was both incredibly knowledgeable and a superb presenter, alone and in collaboration with photographers and experts with whom he developed relationships over the years.  Kevin (whom Michael met through those relationships ) was somewhat similarly able to leverage his industry affiliations to present interesting site content.  The Leica interviews were a recent example.

We still know little about Josh and what he’ll be able to bring to the table in this regard.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: alainbriot on January 31, 2019, 01:26:31 pm
I enjoyed working with Michael.  His original idea, the Video Journal, was video based (as the name implies). The Video Journal was the product, the website was the distribution vehicle. In the end the website outlasted the Journal. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on January 31, 2019, 05:35:36 pm
I’m well aware, and the Video Journals remain part of the site, accessible in the video section, which also contains much more recent video content, by Michael and later by Kevin.  Video based interviews and discussions have remained a critical part of the site, and that’s what I’d like to see retained.  Thus far, we’ve only seen some brief written pieces that won’t maintain my interest over time.  YMMV.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: ramd41@gmail.com on January 31, 2019, 11:04:56 pm
Following the surprising December 26 post by Josh, I've been watching this forum on and off for over a month.  Many have expressed disappointment and others encouragement.  It's all understandable and reasonable.  Yes, the site needs an update.  It became a bit stale. Kevin's slavish devotion to Sony became tiring.  Yes, there is no doubt that we will miss Chris and wish him only the best.  He was critical to the success and growth of this site. 

IMO Josh's first post was grossly disappointing.  It lacked grace in the extreme.  It said this transition was nasty.  Kevin and Chris's subsequent posts also sounded as if they were required by whatever agreements that were signed.  While I didn't think Kevin did enough to move the site forward, there was no doubt that his enthusiasm was genuine and following a legend was far from easy.  His Masters series was terrific. I still think back on his Charles Cramer series on a regular basis.   Josh, we don't know the back story and may not be entitled to know, but you didn't make a great first impression. 

Your first couple of posts are OK.  My own sense is you are trying too hard to sound "artsy."  I believe that photography and its many genres are well entitled to be respected as art.  But I hope that your future posts sound less like the bloviating letters of the pretentious that makes other forms of art so off-putting at times.  I endorse the idea that you will not only look at the tech side of our art that is blessed and tortured by the fact that it is a mix of fantastic technology and great vision by those who are at its pinnacle, but also at the art side.  It is not as if, however, the world is devoid of those who focus on the art and the artists who create great photography.  Brooks Jensen, Ibarionex Perello and Michael Johnson are three among others who do a terrific job at that as well.  If you are going to bring something new to that genre, then bring something really new.   

I wish Josh only the best.  This site has, over many, many years, become an automatic go-to.  Mostly due to Michael's terrific posts and his and Chris's great videos.  How many of us knew of the wonderful photographic possibilities of Iceland before that Video Journal of so many years ago?  Knowing that this is now going off in a different direction, hopefully it is something different than the already very well done sites about the personal stories, insight and inspiration of wonderful photographers.  We will all be watching with great hope that this site remains a go-to.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: peterwgallagher on February 01, 2019, 02:27:06 am
If you are going to bring something new to that genre, then bring something really new...We will all be watching with great hope that this site remains a go-to.

I agree with ramd41's remarks. I share his/her sense this was an abrupt and graceless transition from which I hope the new CEO will recover in the direction ramd41 suggests.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: WaynePeterson on February 02, 2019, 01:41:32 pm
I've had the benefit of a personal exchange with Josh, and came away from it believing him to be thoughtful and well-intentioned.  As a result, I'm absolutely willing to "wait and see." 

With regard to Kevin's style and his departure, I understand what confidentiality agreements often stipulate.  And the stilted acknowledgment of Kevin's hard work after Michael's passing is likely all that was possible.  When those agreements are reached in "change of control" events, little else is ever said, and that's intentional.  Two parties rarely wrap up this sort of transition amicably on either side.  Both tend to walk away, agreement in hand, disappointed that something easier and genuinely better wasn't possible.  If you want to blame someone, most likely blame attorneys.

Complaining that Kevin wasn't Michael is specious and silly.  A gifted photographer he certainly is. But he's a completely different personality.  And his genuine enthusiasm allowed him to play the perfect foil for Michael's persona.  The videos they made together make clear that their collaboration was much more than merely the sum of the parts.  With Michael's loss, Kevin soldiered on and almost immediately reached for a series of others who could speak to the high creativity and art of photography. His interviews were enthusiastic, thoughtful and appreciative.  The interviews with Charles Cramer and William Neill make that clear.

Kevin's effort to stay apace of evolving photographic technology, and to bring it to LULA readers is something I appreciated and from which I benefitted.  The Back to the Print series was very valuable to me.  So was his interview with John Pannozzo from Colorbyte. I adopted the ImagePrint Black workflow, and it's proved a complete game-changer for my printmaking.  So dismissing him as a Sony fanboy missed the point completely.

Mastering the chemical process took time and effort.  At least it did for me.  But I did master the use of a 4x5 view camera, and used it extensively for 25 years.  The transition from chemical to digital photography is, frankly, far from done.  And the technology continues to evolve rapidly.  We're barely 20 years past the debut of the Nikon D1 , the first commercially viable DSLR which boasted a mere 2.7 megapixels.  The first commercial mirrorless camera supporting interchangeable lenses appeared less than a decade ago.  Printing technology has changed and advanced just a quickly and steadily.  In the face of that pace of change, a measured focus on developing technology is warranted, and has proven very valuable to me.  Wrap it in Kevin's enthusiastically positive energy, and the technical becomes both useful and highly engaging.

So I have enjoyed the Yin and Yang of the art and technology of landscape photography.  More, I've benefited from both. Do I have a great deal of use for art and artist profiles that read like wine reviews?  Not especially.  Writers appear to struggle at times to find meaning in the otherwise meaningless, and to appear thoughtful and deep when there's no depth to be found. Some of us continue to believe that the ancient Greeks had it right in their pursuit of truth, goodness, and beauty as the highest ideals and the elements of real art. Vacuous, nihilistic ugliness is no substitute. And I've been glad to see nearly none of it in LULA.

Josh has my best wishes as he finds both his feet and his voice.  I choose to remain hopeful.  I will, however, miss Kevin's presence, energy, and relentless, self-deprecating enthusiasm.  He, too, has my very best wishes.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 02, 2019, 08:51:35 pm
Thank you for that thoughtful essay, Wayne.
I think you covered the essential points very well.
I, too, am willing to give Josh a chance to show what he can do with LuLa.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 03, 2019, 08:42:07 am
I continue to check in here,

I am encouraged by the more balanced read on the transition, conscious of the concerns, listening to the requests and truly grateful for the many messages of support.

Most angles (frustrated, indifferent, refreshed, confused, excited, intrigued, concerned, pleased, pissed off etc) have been covered in this and other threads related to my (and my little team’s) arrival.

 They are valid. Some seem more complete with wisdom, but all are the responses of people who ultimately wish for a very important project such as this site and it’s culture and history to be honoured. Just as I do.

Perhaps we will see the method for doing so differently, but ultimately I have to trust my own vision and hold that close while responding to our community.

Onward.

Thanks to all, always.

Josh


 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Kellerman on February 03, 2019, 04:43:07 pm
I would love to be one of those who adopts a positive and hopeful view of the future of LuLa under you, Josh. But when I read your latest article, already seen 1.8 thousand times when I looked just now, I wonder. 'Believing is Seeing' proved very difficult to read, opaque, rather full of 'pyschobabble' and in need of copy-editing. So far, LuLa readers seem to be open-minded with respect to your writing, but I would be unhappy with the standard 'Believing is Seeing' represents if it were to set the tone for future articles by you (and we already have Part II to look forward to). You are in a privileged position to promote your work and ideas here, but I don't think we should hesitate to be critical, if that is required. And I think it is required in the case of 'Believing is Seeing'.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on February 03, 2019, 06:01:06 pm
I agree with Eric.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Kirk_C on February 03, 2019, 06:57:12 pm
'Believing is Seeing' proved very difficult to read, opaque, rather full of 'pyschobabble' and in need of copy-editing.

Well said.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: speedyk on February 03, 2019, 09:17:11 pm
Meditation itself is the opposite of psychobabble, the antidote for psychology's continued futile attempts to change a tire on a moving car rather than stopping it first.

But reading about how it is done can be just as tedious for non-practitioners and instructions for sitting would seem out of place on LuLa. The *result* of sitting is what people come here for. As Zen folks have said for some time, no one likes the stink of religion (does anyone like chatting with born-agains?), and to a non-prac this talk can seem like that.

I did not need to know if Michael sat on a cushion, his mindfulness was obvious from the finely-parsed work he presented. But if he had written about his background practices there would have been a clear description of what works and how/why. And I think he would have presented the transition more mindfully as well.

I am happier with less of an emphasis on equipment and who owns which and what is best. I found that tedious. Michael was not above lampooning pixel peepers and had a way of presenting equipment so that it satiated curiosity rather than stirring envy. There was a sense of sales going on with equipment reviews more recently. I am still using a Panasonic G1 which I bought after he reviewed it, not all of us have money to buy the latest camera and then a current computer to process those new/larger files. For me, it's about what I can do with what I have.

There is a point to contributing practices. Someone who does yoga (the modern version of which is really an assemblage of calisthenics and stretches taken from practices of many cultures, put together by the Indian government over 100 years ago to try to unify the nation through exercise, they put a yoga label on it but it isn't what yoga actually is) is likely going to be able to position themselves more solidly, with more balance and stillness when shooting hand held. But this isn't a yoga site, not yet anyway.

I can see an article on mindfulness practices and their contribution to photographic arts as a valid if controversial post on this site. But this one was unfinished in a way that belies its very premise.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on February 03, 2019, 11:00:26 pm
Content aside, how about hiring a proofreader to at least eliminate the spelling and grammatical mistakes...again.  I thought the goal was to raise the standard, not lower it.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jonathan Cross on February 04, 2019, 05:54:07 am
I have now read 'Believing is Seeing - Part 1'.  As others have written, I did not find it an easy read, nor engaging.  Josh is entitled to his views, but I did find it patronising at times, and preaching to the converted.  I have talked with many photographers who refer to being lost in the process of getting an image or series of images.  To me that is a form of meditation, so many of us are already doing it. 

The Rector of our church comes into contact with many types of people with different talents, interests and circumstances in which they live.  In a conversation with him, he commented that he thought I was an observer, and not the sort of person who is oblivious of my surroundings.  I guess this is a trait of photographers, people who are more aware of their surroundings and interested in visual communication.  Although I will sit and concentrate on my breathing if I am on my own in familiar surroundings, I am very content to look around me - meditation on my surrundings,  If those surroundings really interest me, I want to record them, or aspects of them.  I have no real need to meditate in the way Josh writes, or ask myself philosophical questions.

I am also interested in how others see the visual world around us.  I was therefore very interested in articles on Lula about others and, like other forum contributors, found the Charles Cramer series fascinating.  One of my 'go to'  forum categories is Discussing Photographic Styles in the Art of Photography section.  Thank you to all the contributors to it who have introduced me to the way others see the world.  I do look at many other sections that cover what is involved in photography, but 'Believing is Seeing - Part 1' seems to me to be making the simple sound complicated and rather 'off piste'.

This is perhaps a long-winded way of saying that I hope the article is not a foretaste of the Lula future.  No doubt Josh is trying to see where the boundaries lie, but I hope such articles do not become part of the Lula territory.  This one was a turn-off for me.

Best wishes,

Jonathan
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave Rosser on February 04, 2019, 06:05:27 am
I would love to be one of those who adopts a positive and hopeful view of the future of LuLa under you, Josh. But when I read your latest article, already seen 1.8 thousand times when I looked just now, I wonder. 'Believing is Seeing' proved very difficult to read, opaque, rather full of 'pyschobabble' and in need of copy-editing. So far, LuLa readers seem to be open-minded with respect to your writing, but I would be unhappy with the standard 'Believing is Seeing' represents if it were to set the tone for future articles by you (and we already have Part II to look forward to). You are in a privileged position to promote your work and ideas here, but I don't think we should hesitate to be critical, if that is required. And I think it is required in the case of 'Believing is Seeing'.
Plus 1 to that.  In fact I could be very rude and call "Believing is Seeing" Arty-Farty Mumbo-Jumbo.
I have a feeling we will see no more detail technical work flow videos or the like - a great pity.

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: gchappel on February 04, 2019, 06:24:40 am
Sorry, article was unreadable.  Strike 2.
Enough said.
Gary
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Tony Ovens on February 04, 2019, 07:13:43 am
The article is not unreadable. It is difficult to read and even more difficult to consider seriously. However, now I have made myself read it, I find that it actually contains some interesting ideas. Many I'm sure will simply ignore this sort of article or fret about the content and presentation faults here on the forum. But for others the thinking that Josh explores may well be really helpful. For the very first time (I have no previous experience of 'psychobabble' as some have described Josh's words) I am about to go on a local mindfulness trail through a nature reserve of woodland, open heath and some small lakes. The idea it seems is to concentrate on what's around and to calm down! With all the problems I see in the news everyday a moment or two of calm and reflection might prove no bad thing. I'll let you know.
Unlike many who write here I find the new approach to Lula worth the effort it takes to read it. The grammar issues and so on are obviously important to some but honestly, it's all very minor irritation.
The main page articles are only a fraction of what's on offer and the forum carries on the good work as usual regardless - thank goodness.
Tony
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 04, 2019, 07:33:15 am
The article was retro-1970s 'New Age.'  I thought most have moved past that but I guess there are still hold outs.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bjanes on February 04, 2019, 08:47:53 am
'Believing is Seeing' proved very difficult to read, opaque, rather full of 'pyschobabble' and in need of copy-editing.

+1

Writing while stoned?  ;)

Bill
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on February 04, 2019, 09:06:34 am
I knew it would come to this.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on February 04, 2019, 09:29:03 am
Oh, come on. It's only $12 a year.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on February 04, 2019, 09:51:55 am
Oh, come on. It's only $12 a year.
Why pay anything for this type of drivel?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on February 04, 2019, 10:25:15 am
I forget the details but I think the archives play some role in the argument.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: elliot_n on February 04, 2019, 11:17:03 am
Thank you Josh for an interesting article.

It's difficult to integrate photography with a Buddhist practice. Photography's desire to frame space and freeze time seems at odds with a perception of the world as both infinite and impermanent. (I was taught meditation by a Buddhist-convert who had recently retired from a career as a war-photographer — he felt blessed that he no longer had to divide the world up into little rectangles.)

Whilst it's true that the practice of photography can have elements of mindfulness about it (a mindfulness of seeing rather than the more common mindfulness of breathing), often this heightened state of attention is dedicated to making simulacra of pre-existing photographs (icebergs, sand dunes, Tuscan vistas etc).

And so the question needs to be asked — What, if anything, should a Buddhist photograph? The disparate photographs used to illustrate the article seem to address this question in a thoughtful way.







Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 04, 2019, 11:41:13 am
^ Now that! ...Is interesting.
The subject matter of a shot and how it relates to one’s own conscious exploration, for anyone, should or CAN be considered mindfully.

Infact, that was the jump off for part 2.
Thanks for taking this back into a productive light.

Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on February 04, 2019, 12:36:27 pm
^ So the other commentary is not interesting and not productive?  Opposing points of view can also be considered mindfully. 

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 04, 2019, 12:50:32 pm
Some were !

 :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ray Harrison on February 04, 2019, 12:53:28 pm
Josh, maybe consider most commentary as mindful at the very least (to overuse a word that you said was overused already :))). People care enough to comment and that's a good thing  :).
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 04, 2019, 12:57:28 pm
Equanimity! Indeed
 ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bcooter on February 04, 2019, 01:03:04 pm
snip....

Thanks for taking this back into a productive light.

Josh

Josh, good answer.

I don’t mind your writing, or trying to give a behind the scene interpretation of why, what, goes through an artist’s brain to produce imagery.  It’s also refreshing to see someone feature image makers that shoot still “film” cameras and I’m guessing, but I feel that your still finding your way and trying to differentiate LL from the other image based sites, while playing to your current members while gaining new audience.

Though I don’t consider myself a gear head (maybe sort of) but I would like to see a few more articles of some equipment manufacturers, without becoming a any “one" brand show.   Especially some of the motion/cinema equipment, like the new wave of LED lighting.

Last Saturday, I went t the bsc expo  https://www.bscexpo.com which featured cinema/broadcast equipment from the new small Nikon, to $100,000 cinema cameras.  I mostly went to hear Roger Deakins speak, but was fascinated by the advances in Lenses, lighting, stabilizers, a lot that has use in still production.

I haven’t been to a equipment expo in years as I’ve felt still equipment has sort of leveled off.  The BSC expo was different, with a different and diverse crowd, from small one man band filmmakers (that also shoot stills) to DOP’s grips, gaffers, all sorts of crew and they all had that look of crew.   I actually made 4 tours of the show, so I wouldn’t miss anything.  What was refreshing was every booth I stopped at, I got real information without a rep dissing a competitor, or trying to oversell me and every rep I spoke to had a direct to the point answers. 

There was huge demonstrations, to single person booths that were tiny companies.  One got my attention is called photon beard.  The owner had a zz top type of beard (no pun intended) and photo beard is the oldest lighting manufacturer in the UK, starting in 1882.   They had a limited line but sold LEDs, Tungsten Kits and a blonde HMI that sold for around 3 grand including ballast, producing 1200 watts and only pulling 7 amps from the mains. 

Sigma has a great line of small cine lenses that are lightweight and beautiful in look and sharpness with smooth roll off.   

The most beautiful camera was the new Panavision that is a rent only camera and this photo I linked to does not do the camera justice.  It’s not as large as the photo looks, but it’s 8k, Full Frame (still camera size) sensor and it was very impressive.  https://dxl.panavision.com 

There also was a small company that works with PS technique and builds stabilizers for small mirrorless to large cinema cameras and it was amazingly easy to use with virtually zero learning curve. It wasn’t cheap but for a small camera like a 1dxII or the new Nikon mirrorless it was amazing, especially if the camera autofocuses reliably.

The most prevalent equipment was LED lighting.  There had to be 25 booths featuring lighting, mostly LEDs.   One company had a bank of LED lights that was one of the brightest lights I’ve seen.  I asked how bright it goes, so the rep pointed it at the floor (and this is a very big light) and kicked it up for about 5 seconds.  It was so bright it lit up at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the expo, floor. 

My point is a lot of innovation is going to motion equipment that has a lot of crossover from motion to still photography applications and many of the visitors I talked to, regardless of reputation or size of projects they work on, even though most are filmmakers many I spoke to  have been asked to shoot stills during production, especially commercial shoots. 

How does this post have relevance to LL?  Well, the thing I noticed was the diversity of visitors at the bsc, from 20’s to late 60’s.   Everyone I spoke to worked in image making with passion and there was no real separation due to age, national origin or gender.   I would imagine if someone shot an overhead of the crowd, it probably is the market LL could thrive on with these active participants.

IMO

BC
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 04, 2019, 01:10:14 pm
Wonderful to hear about a Roger Deakins show such as this.
Completely agree to the cross over of DOP / image makers and photographers ! Both through shared gear/tech and by vertue of the shared passion and impulse to make, story tell, share and explore !

Appreciated
Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2019, 01:14:43 pm
All I can say - the more productive and informative posts and articles (and we've seen some already), the better!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: 32BT on February 04, 2019, 01:35:47 pm
What, if anything, should a Buddhist photograph?

"The essence" I like to think.

Particularly "the essence of visual beauty", using "beauty" in the broadest sense of the word. Buddhism teaches us to observe without prejudice, to consider the whole, but still acknowledge the essential markers in an holistic view. It seems appropriate that it is a photographer's task to document the visual essentials that life offers to each of us and to the photographer individually.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 04, 2019, 01:39:22 pm
+100
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on February 04, 2019, 01:48:12 pm
Quote
And so the question needs to be asked — What, if anything, should a Buddhist photograph?. . .

It seems the closer one attained to nirvana the less relevance photography has, until, photography itself can be abandoned as an encumbrance.

Rand
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 04, 2019, 01:51:21 pm
Nirvana is not somewhere else to be striven for.
Samsara and Nirvana are one
 ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bcooter on February 04, 2019, 02:59:04 pm
snip....

 to make, story

snip.....


Josh

Josh, You're right about a story.  Whether you have a 25 pages of creative briefs or you walk out your door, camera in hand to "take/make" a photo it needs a story.

Heck, even if we're shooting retail, there has to be a story rather than going through movement 1 to 14.   Are you displaying the product?  Are you meeting a friend, a lover, a rival there needs to be a story, a reason.  I've always lived by the thought that everyone, model "real people" actors are in essence actors because they need a reason to perform.   Even if there is or isn't dialog the subject needs a reason.

And as I tell client's all the time, paid professional in front of the lens or someone that has never been photographed makes little difference because everyone is a real person.

I can take/make a photograph that's pretty.  Actually all photographs are made, even if it's street photography, but to not have a reason is like designing a piece of tile that you have no idea what it's for.  If it's a bath, then it's different, vs. tile for a floor.   

This is just me talking, but when I'm doing my job right, on set, once the button is pushed, I say very little, because I've given the subject all they need to know.   If I have to talk a lot or explain, or the very worst say put your right hand here, you left hand there, look across the room, the beach, the whatever, then either I didn't do my job right by explaining the story or the subject didn't get it, though if your the one directing either from behind the lens or a block away, there has to be a reason.

There is a world full of interesting imagery, a free place on the web to publish it, but there needs to be a reason, or as you said best, a story.

We are now deep into a project in London and the client's only input is make it portrait like and cover as much ethnic origin as much as possible.  Luckily London has a lot of ethnic groups, probably as many in the world, but you have to give them a reason and not be gratuitous.

Make it interesting, yes, have no story then it's hollow.

PS  to me Nirvana doesn't come on set or on the day.  It takes a few days to make the right select, or chose the imagery for the edit.  What you see on the day is relief that you did your job, but real Nirvana takes a few days or even a week to explore what was produced and fits the story.

IMO

BC

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on February 04, 2019, 03:30:50 pm
A very interesting article, which addresses a much more profound question - why do we click that button - than just the ones about what lens to use etc.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 04, 2019, 04:51:01 pm
I find it interesting that the article that was greeted so negatively has now generated considerable commentary, much of which is quite thoughtful. I find that fact encouraging.

Eric
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 04, 2019, 05:50:23 pm
I find it interesting that the article that was greeted so negatively has now generated considerable commentary, much of which is quite thoughtful. I find that fact encouraging.

Eric

Very true. To paraphrase Donald Trump who said that even bad publicity is a good publicity (it may well be that somebody else said it before him), even a negative comment might sometimes trigger new posts that turn out to be more constructive and illuminating than the previous negative comment.

The great thing about the forums is that you can never guess into what direction the original post will stray.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 04, 2019, 05:58:55 pm
It certainly is a Changing Landscape.

RIP Luminous Landscape.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on February 04, 2019, 09:05:39 pm
I have no issue with the concept of meditation and photography.  But others have written about it in more concise and relatable ways, even without a multitude of misspellings and grammatical errors....
https://www.stephenbatchelor.org/index.php/en/photography-and-meditation

And the topic can be presented in even more relatable and interesting terms, e.g., via interactive discussion, with juxtaposition of photographs...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0RDatANoF2c

A live video interview would be even more engaging.

Just saying...

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 04, 2019, 10:15:16 pm
Video would be better, agree.

Chogyam Trungpa (despite his controversial rep) was a teacher of a few of my peers. He did writing on the creative process and consciousness/perception.

Not trying to re-invent the wheel, just rolling it along & inviting others to do so.

 :)

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on February 04, 2019, 10:42:58 pm
My comment was not about reinvention; it was about writing style and presentation format.  And about not disrespecting one’s audience by an amateurish lack of copy editing, even after repeated feedback.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: elliot_n on February 05, 2019, 06:19:41 am
I have no issue with the concept of meditation and photography.  But others have written about it in more concise and relatable ways, even without a multitude of misspellings and grammatical errors....
https://www.stephenbatchelor.org/index.php/en/photography-and-meditation

And the topic can be presented in even more relatable and interesting terms, e.g., via interactive discussion, with juxtaposition of photographs...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0RDatANoF2c

A live video interview would be even more engaging.

Just saying...

Jeff

Very interesting video - thanks for posting.

A couple of the collages under discussion can be seen here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/03/opinion/a-cosmos-of-found-objects.html
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on February 05, 2019, 01:01:57 pm
Nirvana is not somewhere else to be striven for.
Samsara and Nirvana are one
 ;)

Far be it from me to teach/question you on things Buddhist (meant with sincerity), but from a layperson's perspective this comment in Wiki has me confused re your statement of Samsara and Nirvana being "one."

Quote
Human realm:[41] called the manuṣya realm.[42] Buddhism asserts that one is reborn in this realm with vastly different physical endowments and moral natures because of a being's past karma. A rebirth in this realm is considered as fortunate because it offers an opportunity to attain nirvana and end the Saṃsāra cycle.[41][48]
And:

Quote
Nirvana (निर्वाण, Sanskrit: nirvāṇa; Pali: nibbana, nibbāna) is the earliest and most common term used to describe the goal of the Buddhist path.[1] The literal meaning is "blowing out" or "quenching."[2] It is the ultimate spiritual goal in Buddhism and marks the soteriological release from rebirths in saṃsāra.[1][3] Nirvana is part of the Third Truth on "cessation of dukkha" in the Four Noble Truths,[1] and the summum bonum destination of the Noble Eightfold Path.[3]

Within the Buddhist tradition, this term has commonly been interpreted as the extinction of the "three fires",[4] or "three poisons",[5][6][note 1] passion (raga), aversion (dvesha) and ignorance (moha or avidyā).[6] When these fires are extinguished, release from the cycle of rebirth (saṃsāra) is attained.

Nirvana has also been deemed in Buddhism to be identical with anatta (non-self) and sunyata (emptiness) states.[7][8] In time, with the development of Buddhist doctrine, other interpretations were given, such as the absence of the weaving (vana) of activity of the mind,[9] the elimination of desire, and escape from the woods, cq. the five skandhas or aggregates.

Buddhist scholastic tradition identifies two types of nirvana: sopadhishesa-nirvana (nirvana with a remainder), and parinirvana or anupadhishesa-nirvana (nirvana without remainder, or final nirvana).[10] The founder of Buddhism, the Buddha, is believed to have reached both these states.[10]


And my original post was mostly in jest, based on my layperson understanding of attaining to the need of nothing as a goal.  Photography being a something.  (The goal itself perhaps seen as "something" and therefore self-defeating in formal logic.)   ;D

Rand
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 05, 2019, 01:18:01 pm
Who needs meditation, buddhism, nirvana, etc. when you can think inside the box instead? And here is a company to help you with that.

I would add that, if you use a sharp needle to poke a pinhole in the box, you could get a photograph projected right into your brain.

;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 05, 2019, 01:20:19 pm
^ lol
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on February 05, 2019, 01:40:48 pm
Who needs meditation, buddhism, nirvana, etc. when you can think inside the box instead? And here is a company to help you with that.

I would add that, if you use a sharp needle to poke a pinhole in the box, you could get a photograph projected right into your brain.

;)

Dang... that's funny.   ;D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 05, 2019, 01:53:43 pm
Who needs meditation, buddhism, nirvana, etc. when you can think inside the box instead? And here is a company to help you with that.

If it's white inside, it could be used between the thinking episodes also for product photography.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: gwk on February 05, 2019, 04:11:13 pm
I have been an ardent reader of Lula since around 2004 and have found it to be an absolutely comprehensive resource for my purposes. I have been photographing since childhood and it has always been a serious hobby. I am now retired. (same age as Michael would have been) and photograph semi professionally and do my own printing - HPZ3100 and Epson. Lula has been an indispensable resource and support for my journey from film to digital. I have purchased many of the Videos and tutorials which were all excellently done and useful. This is my first post to the forum and probably will be my last also. I am posting because the turmoil of the past few weeks is of concern.

When Lula became a subscription site I immediately became a subscriber and continue to be one. When Kevin joined Michael made a full introduction and it was clear who he was and what his role was. Chris was always there and provided much appreciated support at all times. I thought Kevin has done an excellent job in following in some very large feet and whilst obviously a different person to Michael certainly carried Lula forward in a very nice, very enthusiastic and interesting way and has incredible experience and knowledge, which he willingly shared, and a solid track record.

At the very least, as a subscriber and customer I consider myself somewhat of a stakeholder, I felt that I was always well informed as to the direction and future of Lula. Not that we have any say in the matter but nevertheless the customer is the reason for Lula's existence as I presume it is a for profit business. (please correct me if I am wrong).

The sudden, completely out of the blue, quite vague announcement of a coup d'état at the top was startling in its unexpectedness and obfuscation. In fact the web site still shows, on some pages, Kevin as the CEO.

I have been in corporate circles all of my working life and have never seen such a botch up of regime change as this one, except perhaps in some third world backwater, and then it is usually an assassination. Regime change at the top happens and sometimes it is quite extreme, as in this case. "The king is dead, long live the king!" comes to mind. But such an amateurish transition takes the prize.

As a customer I buy your product. If I don't like it I simply buy a different one. As we know the world is full of similar web sites. Most free and many have excellent content, so the choices are abundant.

Regardless of what has transpired and is ongoing to provoke these changes both Kevin and Chris deserved much larger recognition for their work than has happened here. Also Josh and partner have never been introduced and, as already mentioned, one has no idea that Michael even had a son, let alone that he does photography. One has to dig around on the web to find out a little more.

One does probably not have to be a photographer to run such a site as Lula, but one then needs to be an excellent editor and publisher.

Lula is a very large site with much excellent content. It would be a great shame to see it fold and the content lost. Today anyone selling something needs to be in tune with ones customers, especially ethically and morally as users identify with and are identified and judged by the products they use and where they shop. This changeover has left a very bad taste in my mouth and the owners of Lula have lost a great deal of my respect. I do however find the new articles quite interesting, some somewhat long winded and esoteric though. Lets see how it goes.

Thanks Kevin and Chris for all the work you have done and I wish you both much success and the very best.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on February 06, 2019, 01:32:31 am
Gosh - I never realised that my 12 bucks entitled me to such a say in how people conduct their business!! I'd better get typing!!!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 06, 2019, 01:43:37 pm
Gosh - I never realised that my 12 bucks entitled me to such a say in how people conduct their business!! I'd better get typing!!!

:-)

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 06, 2019, 01:49:54 pm
Gosh - I never realised that my 12 bucks entitled me to such a say in how people conduct their business!! I'd better get typing!!!

It is called feedback, mate :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 06, 2019, 02:25:33 pm
It is called feedback, mate :)


My typewriter doesn't connect to my speakers.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Patricia Sheley on February 06, 2019, 02:59:37 pm

My typewriter doesn't connect to my speakers.

Rob
;D ;D ;D 8)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ian99 on February 06, 2019, 06:52:40 pm
Check out photoPXL.com
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on February 06, 2019, 07:13:52 pm
Check out ********.com

I like Kevin and intend to write for him in his new venture, but I don't this is really cricket here.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 06, 2019, 08:00:22 pm
Check out photoPXL.com

Whoever they are, they want me to submit my info on the basis of that? Not a chance.
There is absolutely zero information presented or enticement to "subscribe" other than a simple graphic.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 06, 2019, 08:04:30 pm
Whoever they are, they want me to submit my info on the basis of that? Not a chance.
There is absolutely zero information presented or enticement to "subscribe" other than a simple graphic.
Did you not click on the 'Read More' button?  You would have seen that this site is the new home for Kevin Raber and that Chris Sanderson is joining him in this venture!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 06, 2019, 08:05:25 pm
I like Kevin and intend to write for him in his new venture, but I don't this is really cricket here.
Why not?  A lot of us were disappointed in his departure and it's nice to see that someone has posted a link to his new site.

ADDED:  It's also nice to see that he have another option for reviews besides LuLa.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 06, 2019, 08:07:07 pm
I like Kevin and intend to write for him in his new venture, but I don't this is really cricket here.
I might agree, if it weren't for the secretive way Kevin and Chris were sent packing.

I'm not even thinking of leaving LuLa, but I'm also curious what Kevin and Chris will be doing.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Chris Kern on February 06, 2019, 08:22:18 pm
I'm not even thinking of leaving LuLa, but I'm also curious what Kevin and Chris will be doing.

Yes, indeed, on both counts.  And given their long-term contributions to LuLa, there is no more appropriate place than these forums to alert us to their new venture.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on February 06, 2019, 08:28:25 pm
Check out xxxxxxxx.com

You know what and I am going to be brutally honest here, when Michael passed away and Kevin took over (with the full and contractual agreement of Michael and Chris I assumed), then I wasn't too sure about whether Kevin could fill the shoes of Michael. And then as time went on, I became quite sure that he couldn't, but yet for some reason I was still sufficiently interested in what he had to say and his constant stream of video articles etc., kept me entertained to the point where I wanted to keep coming back for more. But now having surfed over there (thanks for the link Ian) and watching a couple of his new 'On The Rocks' videos, I began to realise that I had a smile on my face as I watched him and that I was really enjoying what I was seeing and hearing, and it sort of felt like I was home. So perhaps the thing I thought I had about Kevin running this site, wasn't about Kevin at all, but it was about me wanting the Lula site to stay as it was when Michael ran it and I couldn't get past the fact that Kevin wasn't Michael, he was somebody else and something else. So good for you Kevin with your newly whitened teeth and your new but wacky Heinrich Himmler style haircut, because I know that as soon as you get your site fully up and running, then I will be signing up to it, but I will also keep my subs going here as well and hopefully Josh will grow into the job and I will also want to keep coming back here for more also. But for the time being Josh, then this new site of Kevin's (and possibly aided by Chris), is certainly going to put a large competitive strain on the Lula membership numbers I think.

So that is probably going to be two sets of subs I am now going to be paying, but the upside is when I thought I was slowly losing one old site, that instead I now have the prospect of enjoying two new ones ;)

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on February 06, 2019, 08:34:41 pm
LuLa, whatever you think of the content or the management team, is a commercial enterprise.

If you're going to advertise another commercial enterprise, especially a competing one, buy a damn ad.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 06, 2019, 08:35:44 pm
I might agree, if it weren't for the secretive way Kevin and Chris were sent packing.

I'm not even thinking of leaving LuLa, but I'm also curious what Kevin and Chris will be doing.

Seems to be a new rule in the industry.

Quote
The surprise departure of Apple’s retail chief, Angela Ahrendts, leaves two questions. Why did she leave? And had she done a good job? Investors can’t know the answer to either. The $821 billion smartphone maker has a penchant for hiding information that investors would find useful.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-moves-breakingviews/breakingviews-apple-departure-points-to-wider-mystery-idUSKCN1PV2MC
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 06, 2019, 10:48:01 pm
Did you not click on the 'Read More' button?  You would have seen that this site is the new home for Kevin Raber and that Chris Sanderson is joining him in this venture!

I did not.  I should have. I Didn't get past the "sign up here" request. 
I have an aversion to sharing my contact details unless I see some advantage.
I have been bitten on the backside too often.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on February 06, 2019, 11:47:06 pm
Yes, indeed, on both counts.  And given their long-term contributions to LuLa, there is no more appropriate place than these forums to alert us to their new venture.

+1  Darn tootin’!

Rand
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on February 07, 2019, 06:01:17 am
I might agree, if it weren't for the secretive way Kevin and Chris were sent packing.

As has been stated elsewhere - you have absolutely no knowledge of the details of what happened or the terms under which Kevin left. Nor are you entitled to any. So to continue to cast aspersions on the new management is not justified IMO.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2019, 07:10:27 am
There is no earthly reason why people cannnot be readers/members of both Kevin's and Josh's sites: it's not a zero sum game.

The events took place; they cannot be undone, and to continue to bitch over something that had been completed is to be like the UK newspapers and tv stations that go for the dumbest route to making a buck, attracting an audience, and creating continued controversy over Donald Tusk's correct statement that the Brexit mob should have had a clear plan in place before bringing on the referendum, that those Brexiteers didn't even have a sketch of a plan.

Somehow, that truth stings the crap out of the great British media (which supported that decision to have referendum with all the venom it could legally muster), because it underlines the folly into which the nation has been induced, persuaded by them to dive. So far, all it has achieved is the division of families, ruined friendships and Nissan taking the opportunity to abandon a promised new post-Brexit production line in England and invest, instead, in its home base of Japan. In the meantime, Scotland looks on helplessly as its own future is put onto hold. Watch that space.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: nirpat89 on February 07, 2019, 08:41:09 am
Check out photoPXL.com

The name (photoPXL) could have been more creative.  But if you read the opening letter from Kevin Raber, it is quite clear that their new website will be not very different from the Unchanged Landscape that the new Lula seems to want to move away from.  It will most certainly poach people who are not happy with the direction they see Lula going.  In politics, it's not the crime but the cover-up and in business it is not the change but how you bring about it (or adapt to it if it is brought on by external forces, which in this case it is not.)   Look at the case of J. C. Penny as an example of what happens if you force your loyal customers to like something completely different from what they are used to and be comfortable with.  If you want to go into a new direction, make sure it does not alienate your old customers enough to cause them to run away to your competitor(s).  Judging from the vast majority of responses so far on this thread, it looks to me there is a clear danger for the new management of happening just that, particularly if there is a place like photoPXL to fill the void.   

If I were so bold as to give advice to Josh Reichmann, don't try so hard to show the "changing landscape" with new content coming this fast and furious - of which some are hits and some are clearly not.  Show the connection of these new things to the old culture, so people can see some continuity.  Evolution, not revolution - isn't that the Buddhist way.


:Niranjan.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: petermfiore on February 07, 2019, 08:56:31 am
All things need to run their course...good, bad or something in between. No one is forcing anyone to do do anything. We get to chose all, some or none.

At least that's how I have always look at things...



Peter
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2019, 09:07:37 am
...the Brexit...

Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed” - Cato the Elder, Roman senator, 2nd century BC

;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2019, 09:56:00 am
Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed” - Cato the Elder, Roman senator, 2nd century BC

;)

But Slobodan, Britain had moved on from dem days; this is more (to me) a matter of a gigantic 4x4 Trojan Horse; treachery most foul not a whisper behind. In fact, "let them eat cake" comes straight to mind. Just wait until those factories and banks close, and the nice, vote-happy people without offshore accounts and offshore businesses want to keep working...

My concern, of course, from whence my friggin' pension and medical requirements? I'm too oold to start roaming the Earth with a cudgel! As for grabbing some comely wench by the hair and dragging her into my cave (should I be so lucky as to have one still) for some light housekeeping duties... gimme a break!

And this from the same power structures that convinced millions of us we should buy into diesel cars!

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on February 07, 2019, 10:48:15 am
If you want to go into a new direction, make sure it does not alienate your old customers enough to cause them to run away to your competitor(s).  Judging from the vast majority of responses so far on this thread, it looks to me there is a clear danger for the new management of happening just that, particularly if there is a place like photoPXL to fill the void.
In my mind, none of the new articles are worth paying for. The last one was a joke. If it is to be more of the same, I won't be renewing.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2019, 11:03:39 am
Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed” - Cato the Elder, Roman senator, 2nd century BC

Rob, to end the detour from the main topic of this thread: Cato used that phrase to end his speeches in Senate no matter what the subject was. I understand that Brexit is dear to your heart (poor choice of words, perhaps?), as much as it is dangerous to the same, alas...  :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on February 07, 2019, 02:53:09 pm
...controversy over Donald Tusk's correct statement that the Brexit mob should have had a clear plan in place before bringing on the referendum, that those Brexiteers didn't even have a sketch of a plan.

Somehow, that truth stings the crap out of the great British media (which supported that decision to have referendum with all the venom it could legally muster), because it underlines the folly into which the nation has been induced, persuaded by them to dive. So far, all it has achieved is the division of families, ruined friendships and Nissan taking the opportunity to abandon a promised new post-Brexit production line in England and invest, instead, in its home base of Japan. In the meantime, Scotland looks on helplessly as its own future is put onto hold. Watch that space.

THE FOLLOWING POST IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS, IT IS ABOUT RESPECTING DEMOCRACY!

Rob I don't want the UK (as a whole and as an undivided nation) to slip off a cliff into economic oblivion either, but if I look at all the bitching and moaning across the English speaking Western regions of the globe as it appears today, then it brings to my mind a few simple questions:

1 - Do you and should we all believe in democracy?

2 - Should we respect the democratic will of the people?
 
3 - Was the outcome of the Trump election, Brexit referendum and the Scottish independence referendum, derived through a democratic process?

If you answered Yes to the first two, then you must agree to the third, because if you/we do not respect democracy and the democratic will of the people, as far too many people seem not to want to do these days, then that is the end of democracy and we are then heading towards dictatorship and all being controlled under totalitarian regimes.

It really is as simple as that.

Good outcomes and bad outcomes, if they are reached as part of a democratic process, then we have to swallow the result whether we like it or not, as the only alternative is rioting and blood on the streets and dictatorships. So yes the UK might well have chosen to flush itself down the toilet, but at least it chose to do it in a democratic way and yes Scotland might get dragged down with it, but at least it chose to stick to the rest of the UK in a democratic way and yes Trump might be the single most annoying man on the planet to a vast swathe of people across America and possibly the world, but at least he was put there as the result of a democratic process.

To disagree with any of the above, is simply sour grapes.

Oh and I might also add, that democratic countries that dare not ask for the democratic will of the people, because they know they wouldn't like the answer and so would have to think up a way to ignore it, is not really a democracy either!

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 07, 2019, 06:22:17 pm
Three straw men standing in a field. The rare Scottish air can do that to a person.

Democracy was not served with that UK referendum. Why not? Because the people were not given the chance to study a considered, straightforward set of facts and figures options based on reality; you know as well as I do that the population was fed a pack of lies, false representations and the hysterical, rabble-rousing bile of a newspaper and commercial tv system that saw one mother of a chance to pick up on something that they knew was going to run and run for at least three years or so, and boy, did they leap in with typical screams and Sun-style headlines! What a heavenly chance to throw mud at Johnny Foreigner - that's sure to be popular! Have you forgotten who owned Sky and the Sun at the time? You expect love and care for Britain to shine through after having to close down a newspaper that hacked private telephones?

Was anybody given a breakdown of the possible/probable business losses? The bankers and traders were almost waved a fond good riddance by the envious crowd of have-nots, of no-hopers filled with the class hatred that has always crippled Britain at one critical stage or another. That wonderful car builder guy in Sunderland, who laughed and confidently crowed that Japan needed our British engineering skills and could never leave the little island for other places was back, if not in person at least in tribal body, a day or so ago after the Nissan statement of intent, and what had the guy to say? "Let 'em go." How many thousands work there for Nissan? My granddaughter is a doctor in a hospital in Manchester: she tells me that if all the foreigners go home, the government might just as well close the doors on the National Health Service because it's held together by foreign blood and expertise.

Democracy had nothing to do with it; it was lies, disinformation and ignorance of the harsh realities of the state of the British economic dependency on international, and that includes European partnerships. The irony here is that for once, many of both the lower and the upper classes had people with similar fantasies of rebuilding the Empire and becoming the new, independent powerhouse of this world.

The B of E has just written a further half-percent or so off the prospects for the coming year, with a good chance of joining Italy in recession; they also suggest the current level of the pound is not sustainable: and it is already in the ditch! How low can it go?

There is still hope: maybe Parliament will find the balls to declare that it cannot accept its new rôle of assisting national suicide, and produce some eleventh-hour display of guts and call this slo mo crash off. Poor Mrs May is sleepwalking: you just need to look at her close-ups on tv to see it: she's working on reflex. As with Blair, Obama and Trump, the ravages of political life show in the face, not on that portrait up in the attic.

I remember those years of Wilson, Foot and Callaghan so very, very well. Beer and pies at No.10; maybe this is where and what it's actually all about: the prole revolution.

This was not politics either, just a little musing over the madness of those God appears about to destroy through hubris.

   
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on February 07, 2019, 07:17:38 pm
Rob, I think every word you have written is correct, but in a democracy you have to allow people to have their say whether it is based on lies or not, because democracy is about the individual and what they believe to be true at the time they cast their vote. I mean can you or anyone else name me one election or selection process throughout the entire history of the democratic world, where those who want the electorate to vote for them or their ideas, have not been willing to bend and even totally break the truth? History is littered with such malpractices and as old Winnie himself once said:

‘No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Chris Kern on February 07, 2019, 08:14:42 pm
. . . the people were not given the chance to study a considered, straightforward set of facts and figures options based on reality; you know as well as I do that the population was fed a pack of lies. . . .

‘No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Winston Churchill => Boris Johnson => Donald Trump: The Decline and Fall of the English-Speaking World.

I suspect I'm treading on shaky ground here, from a moderatorical perspective, so I had better leave it at that.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2019, 09:53:09 pm
Winston Churchill => Boris Johnson => Donald Trump: The Decline and Fall of the English-Speaking World...

Thankfully, the recent articles on LuLa are restoring our faith in the complexity of the English language ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 07, 2019, 11:04:33 pm
The English Language?
 8)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 07, 2019, 11:55:16 pm
The English Language?
 8)

Exactly! ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on February 08, 2019, 01:25:16 am
Quote
. . .   but in a democracy you have to allow people to have their say whether it is based on lies or not, because democracy is about the individual and what they believe to be true at the time they cast their vote.  . . .

In the United States of America at least, this is why we originally did not want, nor established a democracy.  We established democratic republic. The founding people were wise enough to know that the unwashed, mostly not very well educated/informed masses were unfit to “rule” via a direct democratic (50% +1) vote.  Hence the electoral college and the concept of electing representatives in whom was vested the authority to legislate wisely on “the peoples’” behalf.

These days, because of the wholesale venality and banality of those “representatives” and the rise of a philosophical consensus that individual liberty is the absolute highest goal of mankind, and the purpose that government should serve, the USA is headed in the direction of rejecting the idea of republic and heading toward direct democracy.  Evidence of this is easily seen in the average schlub’s complete ignorance of, and disdain for, the concept of an electoral college.

We “should” remember, that direct democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

Also, for the record, I don’t consider my comments political.  Merely anthropological commentary.  Given the current state of “politics” in the USA (at least), my position for a long time now has been, “A pox on both their houses.”

Rand
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 08, 2019, 03:19:00 am
Stop the political discussions, people. The owners here may have changed but my remit has not.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 08, 2019, 03:36:06 am
Stop the political discussions, people. The owners here may have changed but my remit has not.

Jeremy


"The English Language? " .... josh.reichmann

If the current owner of the site is clearly unperturbed at the current, civilized tone of the conversation, perhaps it might be time for you, too, to reconsider the old, restrictive, absolutely absurd and unrealistic mores apparently based on pure fear of offending the political values/beliefs of some advertiser, and change tack a degree or two to meet the realities of a new age of freedom?

There are many important issues affecting all of us, and in this case, the ramifications spread far outwith Europe and little England, and this is not an English-owned site. Furthermore, this shows the educational value of LuLa in another direction: I learned something this morning about founding US political intentions from Rand; I really though that "two wolves and a sheep" hit the nail on the head.

Anyway, thanks for my early morning shot of heart-jarring excitement: just what my cardiologists and I believe that I need! I don't require a stethoscope to hear mine pumping right now.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: TommyWeir on February 08, 2019, 08:51:51 am
Stop the political discussions, people. The owners here may have changed but my remit has not.

Jeremy


From this Irishman, thanks.

Anyway, good for Kevin and Chris, it'll be interesting to see what they do.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2019, 08:55:01 am
... I learned something this morning about founding US political intentions from Rand...

Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 08, 2019, 09:30:57 am

From this Irishman, thanks.

Anyway, good for Kevin and Chris, it'll be interesting to see what they do.

ROFL

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 08, 2019, 09:33:36 am
Political discussions are one thing... hijacking a thread quite another.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: gkroeger on February 08, 2019, 10:14:38 am
In an effort to get this thread back on-track, I would like to echo something Dave said (not about Brexit).

Kevin was not Michael. Josh, in turn, is not Kevin. I enjoyed many of the articles that were published under Kevin's tenure, but the site did trend toward hardware, and honestly, hardware with exposed biases.

At $12 dollars a year, I can't demand very much. I come to the site primarily for the forum, and quite frankly, I subscribed in order to make sure the site endured so the forum would endure. The collected wisdom and talents represented in the forum are an amazing photographic treasure, as well as an interesting and eclectic community. Although I have only met a few fellow forum members in person, I enjoy the wide range of personalities of people I feel that I "know."

So, here are my 1,200 cents worth of advice to Josh and crew: don't forget the noun in the site's name... Landscape. I want to come and be inspired by other photographers like Alain Briot and Art Wolfe, I want to learn from masters like Charles Cramer and Bill Atkinson and I want spectacular technical information like that provided by Mark Segal. As I look at the articles posted since Josh took over, the batting average is OK. Rachael Talibart's images were inspiring. Midnight Rainbow was fascinating. Alain had two articles on printing. I could do with less insight and meditation, and less "light from above." On a positive note, we haven't had an article on cotton harnesses or advertisements for ImagePrint. Final words of advice: more pictures less words, more words from photographers and less from the interviewer, or to paraphrase Admiral Lord Nelson, no site editors can do very wrong if they show more spectacular landscape photographs.

Glenn
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 08, 2019, 10:19:30 am
Noted. ^
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 08, 2019, 12:53:58 pm
If the current owner of the site is clearly unperturbed at the current, civilized tone of the conversation, perhaps it might be time for you, too, to reconsider the old, restrictive, absolutely absurd and unrealistic mores apparently based on pure fear of offending the political values/beliefs of some advertiser, and change tack a degree or two to meet the realities of a new age of freedom?

All (well, nearly all) the political discussions we had began in a civilised fashion, Rob; but they degenerated. The reimposed ban owed nothing to the sensitivities of advertisers.

Freedom? Over-rated.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 08, 2019, 04:16:53 pm
All (well, nearly all) the political discussions we had began in a civilised fashion, Rob; but they degenerated. The reimposed ban owed nothing to the sensitivities of advertisers.

Freedom? Over-rated.

Jeremy


There was at least one sensible and easy solution: people who crossed from argument (I won't claim there was much debate) into insult could have been switched off for a while with a public reason given. Why not - if one transgresses in public...

Politics is perhaps the most important aspect of public life these days - seems perverse to remove it from the gamut of a "Coffee Corner" slot as if we were all children.

But hey, not my call.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on February 08, 2019, 04:18:44 pm

There was at least one sensible and easy solution: people who crossed from argument (I won't claim there was much debate) into insult could have been switched off for a while with a public reason given. Why not - if one transgresses in public...

Politics is perhaps the most important aspect of public life these days - seems perverse to remove it from the gamut of a "Coffee Corner" slot as if we were all children.

But hey, not my call.
Political discussion is everywhere. Can't we have someplace without it? A respite perhaps.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Mark D Segal on February 08, 2019, 04:27:35 pm
This is a photography website and I come here for photography. If I want politics I'll go elsewhere. I don't want to be bothered even having to delete emails from or wade past posts on this website that get into political opinions regardless of the pretexts or the merits. I expect the moderator to sandbox such posts and ask their authors to desist; otherwise the quality of the Forum in respect of photography is diluted. This is my firmly held view of the matter, it won't change and I won't respond to rejoinders on it.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 08, 2019, 04:30:00 pm
Political discussion is everywhere. Can't we have someplace without it? A respite perhaps.


Like getting drunk: nobody is pouring it down your throat but yourself.

We are talking about containing it in the CC slot, and all the earnest young shutterbuggers have no need to go there unless they choose. Another good reason for respecting the value of genre.

:-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on February 08, 2019, 04:35:10 pm
Like getting drunk: nobody is pouring it down your throat but yourself.
This is the About This Site forum not Coffee Corner. I was happily reading about changes to the site and somebody without warning drops a stink bomb about Brexit.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ray Harrison on February 08, 2019, 05:37:20 pm

There was at least one sensible and easy solution: people who crossed from argument (I won't claim there was much debate) into insult could have been switched off for a while with a public reason given. Why not - if one transgresses in public...

Politics is perhaps the most important aspect of public life these days - seems perverse to remove it from the gamut of a "Coffee Corner" slot as if we were all children.

But hey, not my call.

As recently as the 90s (I like to say that's recent :)), I was able to have interesting political debates with my friends, colleagues and the occasional stranger, many of whom had completely opposing viewpoints. Often, the viewpoints and stances were well thought out and while the discussions could be raucous, the discussions had some level of substance and even a degree of empathy. Today, to me, most political discussions are simply toxic unless everyone is in the same political tribe. The above discussion, I should say, doesn't particularly seem "toxic" to me,  but my own beef with political discussions in a subject-focused forum is they often just take a topic (often not related to politics) down a rabbit hole from which there is no return.

I would love a respite from politics, as others have said, as it causes a lot of noise in today's world. That said, to me, banning political discussion is probably more trouble than it is worth, given human nature. All apes are political, including humans. One approach could be that mods have a remit to keep the threads focused loosely on the stated topic. So you could have politics come in, as it has in this one, but instead of mods saying "politics is banned", they could instead say, "get the thread back on track" if it threatens to completely derail it. Obviously, there is some level of subjectivity as well as using good judgement.

Also, instead of just a generic "coffee corner", add a specific political one, with a warning that the discussions are often toxic. If people get too abusive, they get put into timeout or banned or whatever. Some sites require that any political or religious topics can be read by anyone but only be participated in by people with a certain number of posts, for example. Jeremy would still have his work cut out for him, obviously. But political subjects that threaten to derail one of the main threads could then be shunted off to the political "happy place".

So,
(1) Remove ban on politics
(2) Moderate the threads more from the point of you of keeping them loosely on track rather than chasing political discussions specifically
(3) Provide a place where political talk can happen (I know it was tried unsuccessfully before)
(4) Time-out/ban if too toxic.

It moves politics out to where people can go focus on it if that's of interest to them. Yeah, I get that it's not photography or art or even always interesting. But politics is still going to happen here, simply because over the years it has a long history of doing so, with a not always successful history of stopping it.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 08, 2019, 05:47:08 pm
As recently as the 90s (I like to say that's recent :)), I was able to have interesting political debates with my friends, colleagues and the occasional stranger, many of whom had completely opposing viewpoints. Often, the viewpoints and stances were well thought out and while the discussions could be raucous, the discussions had some level of substance and even a degree of empathy. Today, to me, most political discussions are simply toxic unless everyone is in the same political tribe. The above discussion, I should say, doesn't particularly seem "toxic" to me,  but my own beef with political discussions in a subject-focused forum is they often just take a topic (often not related to politics) down a rabbit hole from which there is no return.

I would love a respite from politics, as others have said, as it causes a lot of noise in today's world. That said, to me, banning political discussion is probably more trouble than it is worth, given human nature. All apes are political, including humans. One approach could be that mods have a remit to keep the threads focused loosely on the stated topic. So you could have politics come in, as it has in this one, but instead of mods saying "politics is banned", they could instead say, "get the thread back on track" if it threatens to completely derail it. Obviously, there is some level of subjectivity as well as using good judgement.

Also, instead of just a generic "coffee corner", add a specific political one, with a warning that the discussions are often toxic. If people get too abusive, they get put into timeout or banned or whatever. Some sites require that any political or religious topics can be read by anyone but only be participated in by people with a certain number of posts, for example. Jeremy would still have his work cut out for him, obviously. But political subjects that threaten to derail one of the main threads could then be shunted off to the political "happy place".

So,
(1) Remove ban on politics
(2) Moderate the threads more from the point of you of keeping them loosely on track rather than chasing political discussions specifically
(3) Provide a place where political talk can happen (I know it was tried unsuccessfully before)
(4) Time-out/ban if too toxic.

It moves politics out to where people can go focus on it if that's of interest to them. Yeah, I get that it's not photography or art or even always interesting. But politics is still going to happen here, simply because over the years it has a long history of doing so, with a not always successful history of stopping it.

All good points, Ray. I think your (3) sits perfectly within the concept of the Coffee Corner, especially if under its own heading of Politics.

Nobody who feels aggrieved by the subject need even peep!

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Wayne Fox on February 08, 2019, 06:29:38 pm
LuLa, whatever you think of the content or the management team, is a commercial enterprise.

If you're going to advertise another commercial enterprise, especially a competing one, buy a damn ad.
there are frequently links posted in the forum to “competing” content, usually by the authors. I’ve always felt if you create a topic to tell everyone about your new video on your own website it’s a little inappropriate (except for vendors bring us information about their equipment) Throwing a link about some content you created that actually answers a question relating to the topic of the thread seems OK.  LuLa has always been pretty tolerant But if you are referring to the link to Kevins’ new site in an earlier post, he nor any of his team posted it. So it’s just one of those things.

As far as “competing”, true, but in reality it’s like the movies. We don’t pick one and never see the other. We go see the ones we are interested in.  Same with the websites we choose to visit.  I’ll continue to frequent the forums here, it’s a daily activity I enjoy, and this is one of a few websites I enjoy frequenting.  I’m guessing Kevin’s new site will become one of those as well. I’ve especially enjoyed the videos and those involved. Its not like I have to quit coming to this site because I also want to go to another one.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on February 08, 2019, 06:51:43 pm
I do not think for one second that Kevin or any of his team were in any way involved in posting the link to his new project here. He's pretty professional.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: John R on February 09, 2019, 12:22:31 am
This is a photography website and I come here for photography. If I want politics I'll go elsewhere. I don't want to be bothered even having to delete emails from or wade past posts on this website that get into political opinions regardless of the pretexts or the merits. I expect the moderator to sandbox such posts and ask their authors to desist; otherwise the quality of the Forum in respect of photography is diluted. This is my firmly held view of the matter, it won't change and I won't respond to rejoinders on it.
I agree with this sentiment. If my photo magazine had the kind of discussions and/or content as per the political discussions in the Coffee Corner, I, and I suspect the vast majority, would end our subscription/s. We have to be reasonable, this is a photographic site. And why should the Moderator/s spend their time on political content? It is hard enough moderating regular photographic content and still maintain civility.

JR
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on February 09, 2019, 03:01:14 am
This is my firmly held view of the matter, it won't change and I won't respond to rejoinders on it.

Typical Canon user.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jonathan Cross on February 09, 2019, 03:33:54 am
Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic.  I will just have to accept that I give up and may miss something.
Jonathan
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 09, 2019, 03:50:50 am
Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic.  I will just have to accept that I give up and may miss something.
Jonathan


Aaaah.... never mind, you'll get over it in time!

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 09, 2019, 03:59:50 am
I agree with this sentiment. If my photo magazine had the kind of discussions and/or content as per the political discussions in the Coffee Corner, I, and I suspect the vast majority, would end our subscription/s. We have to be reasonable, this is a photographic site. And why should the Moderator/s spend their time on political content? It is hard enough moderating regular photographic content and still maintain civility.

JR

But not only that.

If politics is given its clearly marked place in the CC, then neither you nor anyone else need ever have to soil their fragile collective consciousness with political chat again! And for the rest of us with interest in a reality beyond blurry snaps or others so sharp as to provide a public danger to health, we get to enjoy a deeper relationship with our present online friends that we otherwise can.

And all in one place! What's not to like? And it even gives the banners a shot of puritanical joy in the attempt to get banning done!

Win - win!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 09, 2019, 04:29:39 am
I can understand the position of the site owners and the moderator(s) about the political topics. I can understand also that there are forum members (at least ten or even twenty) who don't want to see the photography site contaminated by politics.  However, judging from the popularity, number of posts and huge numbers of page hits on the previous political threads, there must have been hundreds or even thousands of readers who couldn't wait till next morning to read the latest posts on the aforementioned topics.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on February 09, 2019, 07:04:56 am
Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic.  I will just have to accept that I give up and may miss something.
Jonathan

The original topic:
Seems more like a landslide to me.  Something is very odd about this sudden, previously unannounced sea change.  Why no hint of this from Kevin or Chris?  No “introduction” of Josh by the existing crew?   Something is rotten in Denmark, me thinks.

Not much about photography.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on February 09, 2019, 08:35:48 am
Sometimes simple truths seem to elude even the most experienced and apparently knowledgable of people.

LULA IS A PHOTOGRAPHY SITE.

The main danger to the successful continuance of Lula is not a change in management and direction but contamination by extraneous subject matter.

Frankly the views expressed here about politics strike me as about as substantial and relevant as one might expect views on photography expressed on a politics site to be ! let them stay where they belong ... in the local bar !
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 09, 2019, 08:56:28 am
Sometimes simple truths seem to elude even the most experienced and apparently knowledgable of people.

LULA IS A PHOTOGRAPHY SITE.

The main danger to the successful continuance of Lula is not a change in management and direction but contamination by extraneous subject matter.

Frankly the views expressed here about politics strike me as about as substantial and relevant as one might expect views on photography expressed on a politics site to be ! let them stay where they belong ... in the local bar !

Kinda agree: I'm all for having an open mind and wide horizons too, Krug. See you down the local, then?

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2019, 09:44:53 am
Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic...

My initial reaction was to agree with you.

Then it dawned on me.

It is related to the original topic. What is the original topic? About this site>the changing landscape. What if the change involves not only the change of leadership and change of direction, but also a return to political debates, in a secluded area known as the coffee corner?

As with the change of direction, some might like it, some might hate it. Some might leave, some new might come. We have about a dozen active posters who are staunchly against it. The real question is: what does the silent majority want? Judging how hugely popular it was before the ban...


Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on February 09, 2019, 10:44:46 am
I don’t care one way or another if politics remains off limits or is reintroduced. The world is full of stuff I am not particularly interested in and I simply ignore it. I did sometimes read the political threads here and even asked a few questions once in a while but mostly I just ignored it. Easy to do.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on February 09, 2019, 10:50:26 am
Perhaps LuLa could pivot to becoming a conspiracy theory web site, like godlike productions, or above top secret!

It's a business model, of sorts.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 09, 2019, 11:06:28 am
Perhaps LuLa could pivot to becoming a conspiracy theory web site, like godlike productions, or above top secret!

It's a business model, of sorts.
Not really as the site owners would need some pretty hefty liability insurance.  Look at what is happening with Alex Jones right now regarding the litigation by the Sandy Hook families.  He's in a heap of trouble.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 09, 2019, 11:13:43 am
I belong to a forum dedicated to the van I drive. On this forum, incendiary topics are relegated to “The Danger Zone”.  There is no moderation, this compartmentalization is voluntary.

Inhabited primarily by a select few Americans of the “right” persuasion, the DZ regulars have found themselves in an empty echo chamber, devoid of the attention and conflict on which they thrive. So, they’ve recently moved in to the open forum, to the detriment of those who seek information, not vituperation.

In other words, it’s a common problem.  My suggestion to those who dislike this phenomenon is to not respond.  Read their posts if you like, but refrain from replying.  They thrive on attention.  If it’s denied, they wither.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: HSakols on February 09, 2019, 11:23:59 am
Quote
Perhaps LuLa could pivot to becoming a conspiracy theory web site, like godlike productions, or above top secret!

It's a business model, of sorts.

 ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on February 09, 2019, 11:27:54 am
I don't go to restaurants which are noisy. If political discussion isn't compartmentalized, I would just stop coming to the forum.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on February 09, 2019, 12:03:40 pm
You know what? The best way to stop political discussion on this forum, is not to join in with it when it rears its ugly head and yes I blame myself here for for feeling the need to reply to Rob's comment on a certain little thing that is happening over here in Blighty right now and which I thought needed an opposing point of view putting forward (although I am sure Rob thinks the exact opposite).

So I promise, I will never discuss politics again on this forum  ;)

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 09, 2019, 12:23:16 pm
... So I promise, I will never discuss politics again on this forum  ;)


Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on February 09, 2019, 12:42:23 pm
(https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=128239.0;attach=191873;image)

Excellent!!!!

Dave
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 09, 2019, 01:22:02 pm
Excellent!!!!

Dave
+1.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 09, 2019, 01:48:36 pm

Very similar method to what they recommend to do when you want to write a letter to your ex.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ray Harrison on February 09, 2019, 03:24:12 pm


Fantastic! Political arguments can be like hitting yourself in the head with a shovel repeatedly. It only affects your head, not that of the other individual. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 09, 2019, 04:13:09 pm
Fantastic! Political arguments can be like hitting yourself in the head with a shovel repeatedly. It only affects your head, not that of the other individual.


If only you were right! If you were, I wouldn't be worried sick about what happens to me at the end of next month. Do I still have medical cover, or am I left to rot as collateral damage?

Really funny.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 09, 2019, 04:23:26 pm

If only you were right! If you were, I wouldn't be worried sick about what happens to me at the end of next month. Do I still have medical cover, or am I left to rot as collateral damage?

Really funny.

Rob
They want all the UK ex-pats to move back home.  You can be assured of continued good medical care from the NHS.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 09, 2019, 05:30:37 pm
They want all the UK ex-pats to move back home.  You can be assured of continued good medical care from the NHS.


Not in Mallorca: most of us have been net contributors of wealth since the day we arrived because few of us worked here and those who did employed people. The largest group of foreigners buying property here was British: we kept the building industry getting richer and richer until the Crash of 2008. Today, none is buying except the millionaire hedging against the pound going even lower.

In my own case, that amounts to 38 years of buying everything except a D700 and two old lenses in Spain. Add in all the rest, and the island has benefitted to the tune of many thousands of pounds just from me even after my wife's death. Throw in a few cars and I frighten myself: where did it all come from and where did it all go? Photography must have been good at some time!

Regarding care back in the good olde UK: when my mother went back, she had to wait for months before being eligible for some benefits that she had contributed to all her adult life; I wrote to her local authorities on her behalf saying it was kinda strange that a new, foreign person could get into the system right away, but somebody in her 80s, who'd lived there for decades, was British, and had just been absent for about a year, had to wait on returning. The guy told me he understood my point, but that there were no grey areas...

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 09, 2019, 06:14:04 pm

Not in Mallorca: most of us have been net contributors of wealth since the day we arrived because few of us worked here and those who did employed people. The largest group of foreigners buying property here was British: we kept the building industry getting richer and richer until the Crash of 2008. Today, none is buying except the millionaire hedging against the pound going even lower.

In my own case, that amounts to 38 years of buying everything except a D700 and two old lenses in Spain. Add in all the rest, and the island has benefitted to the tune of many thousands of pounds just from me even after my wife's death. Throw in a few cars and I frighten myself: where did it all come from and where did it all go? Photography must have been good at some time!

don't you qualify for Spanish citizenship given your long term residence?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Chris Kern on February 09, 2019, 07:38:39 pm
Inhabited primarily by a select few Americans of the “right” persuasion, the DZ regulars have found themselves in an empty echo chamber, devoid of the attention and conflict on which they thrive.

Actually, before the discussion of politics was banned here, I thought the relatively few American posters of the ‟‘right’ persuasion” were fairly reasonable (albeit argumentative)—by the way, I’m certainly not one of them—and I always had the impression they were targeting their arguments at the rest of us, trying (however hopelessly) to be persuasive, rather than bouncing them off an echo chamber.  Living in a part of the U.S. state of Merryland where esos de la derecha are, shall we say, not particularly well-represented, I enjoyed hearing their points-of-view—if only for the undeniable cardiovascular benefit.

But, for me, the real advantages of this forum for those of us who are inclined to debate public affairs are (1) its international character and (2) the common interest the participants share, which (at least I think) is an inducement to civility.  And the harsh comments that were occasionally exchanged didn’t leave anyone battered and bloody in the street; there is often at least as much heat in some of the technical threads.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Peter McLennan on February 09, 2019, 08:23:24 pm
... I enjoyed hearing their points-of-view—if only for the undeniable cardiovascular benefit.

HA!  An actual LOL from me here in -20C western Canada.  I needed that. :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 10, 2019, 03:56:16 am
don't you qualify for Spanish citizenship given your long term residence?

Alan, I am British, always was: a fact of birth. I see no sense to pretending I am not.

I paid all my UK taxes and kept up all my UK insurance contributions throughout my residence here in Mallorca. I am as entitled to reap those UK benefits now as is anyone who never set foot out of the UK. The argument could be made that I have been a blessing to that country because for all these years I have not had to molest its medical or social security services for a single penny. If anything, it's the Spanish medical services took on the responsibility (which they were already willing to accept) when the private policy we had been running in tandem became too expensive for a retired pocket.

If this ends badly, the least the UK could do would be to accept responsibility for us stranded folks and provide the service, here, by reimbursing the Spanish providers for their help to UK citizens. That would satisfy my personal needs, but not do a thing for those young people in Britain now risking being deprived of the right to go work wherever on the continent they choose. Imagine if being born in New York meant you were prohibited from going to work in California; it's a close parallel at least in some ways. You would still all be Americans, just as we here are and will still all be Europeans, regardless of what some like to pretend.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 10, 2019, 04:20:33 am
Actually, before the discussion of politics was banned here, I thought the relatively few American posters of the ‟‘right’ persuasion” were fairly reasonable (albeit argumentative)—by the way, I’m certainly not one of them—and I always had the impression they were targeting their arguments at the rest of us, trying (however hopelessly) to be persuasive, rather than bouncing them off an echo chamber.  Living in a part of the U.S. state of Merryland where esos de la derecha are, shall we say, not particularly well-represented, I enjoyed hearing their points-of-view—if only for the undeniable cardiovascular benefit.

But, for me, the real advantages of this forum for those of us who are inclined to debate public affairs are (1) its international character and (2) the common interest the participants share, which (at least I think) is an inducement to civility.  And the harsh comments that were occasionally exchanged didn’t leave anyone battered and bloody in the street; there is often at least as much heat in some of the technical threads.

Chris, it's the same reasoning makes me watch France24.com news and listen to their debates: it gives yet another insight into how different countries and those within them feel and experience communal life. When you have access to that deeper insight you begin to understand the nuances and concerns within parts and groups that go to make the whole, just as reading LuLa tells one much about its membership's experiences. Reading local Spanish newspapers tells one how deeply Brexit is affecting them, too: this island has practically no industry left other than tourism; so far, holiday bookings are down 20% on last year, most of the drop being from the Brits, the best customers the place has ever had. They still want to come, but the drop in the value of their money makes it very expensive. I experience it every time I get my UK pension or have to transfer money. I can only wonder how anybody with a normal job could afford to bring a family with, say, two kids out on holiday and manage to do anything but live in a tent on some beach, and make their own food. As for doing that in Italy...

Someone remarked, perhaps jokingly, that they want us foreigners out: on the contrary, they want more of us because we provide employment. All those Spanish docs and nurses and waiters working in the UK didn't go there because they hate their own way of life, or in the expectation of better weather! They need the work and we (there) their availability and capacity to do it.

I am just setting out the facts as I know them here, not fighting somebody with contrary views, so I honestly believe this is a valid post, not a political harangue.


Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 10, 2019, 09:57:18 am
... so far, holiday bookings are down 20% on last year, most of the drop being from the Brits, the best customers the place has ever had...

Awwww... so sad... no one to watch Benny Hill shows in Spanish bars, then? 😉
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 10, 2019, 02:15:01 pm
Awwww... so sad... no one to watch Benny Hill shows in Spanish bars, then? 😉


These days, the small bars have a hard time in the predominantly touristy areas: all-inclusive has sounded curtains for many independent operations because some "tourists" - definition notwithstanding - apparently go from airport to hotel to airport, never to set foot outwith the grounds of said a-i hotels. Could be apocryphal; but it seems not impossible.

But hey, why mock them for their tastes, probable insecurities? They, like us, are the product of their lineage and opportunities in life. There but for the grace of etc.

I bumped into David, proprietor of my secondary summer lunching spot this week: thinks he may open again on this coming Friday. However, today's paper said that the season has been put back by six weeks due to lessened demand over this year's early Easter, which date usually marks the grand openng of many establishments; our own groundhog day?

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 10, 2019, 03:46:18 pm
Alan, I am British, always was: a fact of birth. I see no sense to pretending I am not.

I paid all my UK taxes and kept up all my UK insurance contributions throughout my residence here in Mallorca. I am as entitled to reap those UK benefits now as is anyone who never set foot out of the UK. The argument could be made that I have been a blessing to that country because for all these years I have not had to molest its medical or social security services for a single penny. If anything, it's the Spanish medical services took on the responsibility (which they were already willing to accept) when the private policy we had been running in tandem became too expensive for a retired pocket.

If this ends badly, the least the UK could do would be to accept responsibility for us stranded folks and provide the service, here, by reimbursing the Spanish providers for their help to UK citizens. That would satisfy my personal needs, but not do a thing for those young people in Britain now risking being deprived of the right to go work wherever on the continent they choose. Imagine if being born in New York meant you were prohibited from going to work in California; it's a close parallel at least in some ways. You would still all be Americans, just as we here are and will still all be Europeans, regardless of what some like to pretend.
US Medicare insurance is good only in the US and not overseas.  If we were to become ex-pats, Medicare would be useless despite that fact that we have paid for it during our working careers.  There would be no interest on the part of the US government of paying our insurance bills when we are on travel and we make sure to always take out additional health insurance to cover any emergency.  It's not optimal but it's the reality.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 10, 2019, 05:21:46 pm
US Medicare insurance is good only in the US and not overseas.  If we were to become ex-pats, Medicare would be useless despite that fact that we have paid for it during our working careers.  There would be no interest on the part of the US government of paying our insurance bills when we are on travel and we make sure to always take out additional health insurance to cover any emergency.  It's not optimal but it's the reality.

As it stands, the UK health service has a reciprocal arrangement with the fellow member countries of the EU; people (British) going to member countries on a non-residential basis need only apply for, and carry, a card (E 111?) that entitles them to the services. My daughter has had to use hers frequently because of ear problems that seem to manifest themselves with swimming pools, and her younger daughter, the doc, ended up in the local hospital with some deep pains when she was just a kid: even then she showed more interest in the procedures than in her problem, which was resolved.

Anyone from the UK going to the States has to carry a distinct, expensive insurance policy; I recall that from our couple of shoots in Florida. I always wondered why a relatively prosperous country like yours didn't appear to have an all-included, cradle-to-grave health insurance plan for its citizens too, free at point of delivery, but contributed to during working life via taxation and obligatory national subscription via pay packet. As with the EU countries, it need have absolutely no bearing on the ability to take out separate private medical insurance for those with pockets that stretch that comfortably. Feels like a basic human consideration that is independent of all other aspects of life. Listening, as I do, to a lot of Louisiana radio, I'm always a bit surprised hearing commercials that tell people their children may be considered in some health insurance if they, the parents, earn in a particular financial bracket. To my ears, it sounds all wrong. But that's just me.

Many in Spain have both forms of insurance, especially when the children are young, because it can save on waiting times. The same doctors often appear, from my personal experience, to work in both services: the nationally provided one as well as the private.

If I were rich, one thing I would do is provide something for the cancer department of our local regional public hospital. Obviously, I mean rich!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: faberryman on February 10, 2019, 06:02:38 pm
More political discussion in the About this Site forum. You guys have an addiction that needs treatment.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 10, 2019, 06:04:53 pm
I always wondered why a relatively prosperous country like yours didn't appear to have an all-included, cradle-to-grave health insurance plan for its citizens too, free at point of delivery, but contributed to during working life via taxation and obligatory national subscription via pay packet. As with the EU countries, it need have absolutely no bearing on the ability to take out separate private medical insurance for those with pockets that stretch that comfortably. Feels like a basic human consideration that is independent of all other aspects of life.
Many of us in this country wonder exactly the same thing.   :(
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: David Hufford on February 10, 2019, 07:30:28 pm
Yes, indeed, on both counts.  And given their long-term contributions to LuLa, there is no more appropriate place than these forums to alert us to their new venture.

+10.

(And it is a link, not an ad.)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: StephenStarkman on February 10, 2019, 08:38:42 pm
Pretty monumental thread drift here. It's too much to read it all (and, btw, who cares?). But wow. Congratulations, Lula, you never disappoint ;)

My only thought is, in kind of a strange manner, to again thank Michael and Chris for creating an important and amazing place for photography and photographers. For years, Lula brought to us the best from incredible artists, passionate photographers and caring practitioners. Boy, has the "landscape" changed from the times back then. And not even here. It's SM, YouTube, everywhere. Life marches on... but human nature... not so quickly.

Stephen




Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: HSakols on February 10, 2019, 08:57:29 pm
Seems pretty normal to me??  Art sometime is a bit messy. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: StephenStarkman on February 10, 2019, 09:28:34 pm
Sure, if this discussion was art. But it isn't. :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on February 11, 2019, 01:32:48 am
I imagine you can get some pretty awesome shots (landscape, natch) from the back of a high horse !!   ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on February 11, 2019, 03:37:54 am
As it stands, the UK health service has a reciprocal arrangement with the fellow member countries of the EU; people (British) going to member countries on a non-residential basis need only apply for, and carry, a card (E 111?) that entitles them to the services...

The E111 card (now defunct and replaced with the EHIC card) was the first thing the Greek health authorities wanted to see when my heart went bang on a remote blob of rock in the middle of the Aegean Sea. I give thanks to it and to those Hellenic doctors who saved me.

Long may the reciprocal arrangements live! 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Hulyss on February 11, 2019, 04:55:54 am
Damn Guys !
 
Can't you just let it go and let the site going into his new course ? Can't you just stop expressing yourself about politics ? Those threads driftings are far more harmful for Lula than the ongoing changing landscape.

Yes there is nostalgia, but we live in a world where nostalgia isn't relevant anymore. We are in a world of progress. We can regret some people, some templates and forms but we should embrace novelty othewise many will face disapointment.

So, by empathie, try to see with the eyes off someone not participating in this forum, seeking information, inspiration, novelty ... I say by empathie because many here play the game of entropie and that's not good.

It is easy, behind a keyborad, to put pressure on Josh's shoulders. But in my opinion, the goal of such a site in 2019/2020 is embracing progress, giving new leads for inspiration, diversity and the psychology behind. Gear is a good thing but this is only roughly 5% of a photographer's Journey.

Pardon my roughness but when I see some reactions about some latest articles … it drive me just sad. Not sad for the site, sad for the participants who lack tolerance and open mindedness.

So please, just stick on the subject of a thread. If you wan't to speak about politics you can suscribe to your favorite sources of infos to participate, like the daily mail, RT, breitbart or whatever …

Or express your opinion with photography.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 11, 2019, 07:23:35 am
Those threads driftings are far more harmful for Lula than the ongoing changing landscape.
It appears to me that the content on the LuLa Home Page is far more important for the survival of the website than any forum drift.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Hulyss on February 11, 2019, 10:23:25 am
It appears to me that the content on the LuLa Home Page is far more important for the survival of the website than any forum drift.

… and the contents of the home page are just as good as before. You still have very skillfull articles about photography by Alain Briot, Josh's vision is brand new and bring colors and deepness, other articles are good. On the late LuLa was completely gear'o'centric. I for one do like this transformation because I prefer so far seeing people making Something with gear than seeing people toying around with gear.

The web is ultra full of gear sites. Lula is imho above that, by a parsec.

The last article is interesting. The photographer show his gear but pay attention to his attitude. Do you think he really care about exibiting his gear ? Is that the most "exciting" thing about his work ?  hell no.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Robert Roaldi on February 11, 2019, 11:41:48 am
… and the contents of the home page are just as good as before. You still have very skillfull articles about photography by Alain Briot, Josh's vision is brand new and bring colors and deepness, other articles are good. On the late LuLa was completely gear'o'centric. I for one do like this transformation because I prefer so far seeing people making Something with gear than seeing people toying around with gear.

The web is ultra full of gear sites. Lula is imho above that, by a parsec.

The last article is interesting. The photographer show his gear but pay attention to his attitude. Do you think he really care about exibiting his gear ? Is that the most "exciting" thing about his work ?  hell no.

In general, males don't like change. It's why they hang onto underwear until it's transparently thin.  :)

Also, not many older males like new ideas, again just a general statement. The kernel idea might be that if my thinking got me this far, then it must be good. The fact that other ideas get other people equally far is missed or deliberately ignored.

What I find odd, and this is something that happens more widely and not just here, is that contributors to a site begin to think that the site in some sense "belongs" to them, so they feel threatened when the direction changes without their consent.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 11, 2019, 11:51:48 am
What that makes you, a young female? ^ ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: nirpat89 on February 11, 2019, 12:06:02 pm
Oh, goody.  Now we get to talk about gender stereotypes.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on February 11, 2019, 12:19:01 pm
Oh, goody.  Now we get to talk about gender stereotypes.

Good grief... notions of gender are so, like, yesterday.

Rand
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 11, 2019, 12:25:21 pm
Good grief... notions of gender are so, like, yesterday.

:D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: mbaginy on February 11, 2019, 12:46:45 pm
The web is ultra full of gear sites. Lula is imho above that, by a parsec.
+1
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 11, 2019, 01:01:41 pm
There are the typical box unpacking gear reviews and there are some real-usage gear reviews.
As I recall, nobody has ever complained about Michael Reichmann's gear reviews.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 11, 2019, 01:04:51 pm
... The web is ultra full of gear sites. Lula is imho above that, by a parsec.

Look who's talking. If I remember correctly, you are rather active in gear threads, especially as a Sigma evangelist.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Hulyss on February 11, 2019, 03:18:47 pm
Look who's talking. If I remember correctly, you are rather active in gear threads, especially as a Sigma evangelist.

Don’t be so cantankerous ...
I buy a new camera every 8 to 10 years and was very fond on sigma cameras from 2013 to 2015. It was on me and not a sigma request. I’m very proud that Michael published my DP3 review on lula back in the days, and that Kasuto Yamaki liked and retweeted it.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: StephenStarkman on February 11, 2019, 10:03:14 pm
Buh-bye, LuLa.

LMAO! Have fun wank'n the "art" and "politics" angle!

:)





Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 12, 2019, 04:27:01 am
Buh-bye, LuLa.

LMAO! Have fun wank'n the "art" and "politics" angle!

:)

Missing you already, Stevie!

Those three post you gave us were so filled with emotional content, inspiration, wisdom and, well, just uplifting wonderment. I weep for the loss.

(Remember to pull the chain and wash your hands when you've finished.)

Ciao.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on February 13, 2019, 08:05:26 am
 ... and thank you Rob C for that flash of of elegant taste and erudition. You may find it impossible to believe but sometimes silence is the best option   .... as it would be in this case except that as a proud Brit I despair of my compatriots letting the side down so clearly and publicly.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 13, 2019, 08:56:10 am
... and thank you Rob C for that flash of of elegant taste and erudition. You may find it impossible to believe but sometimes silence is the best option   .... as it would be in this case except that as a proud Brit I despair of my compatriots letting the side down so clearly and publicly.

Dear boy, it's just not cricket!

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: dxhimages on February 13, 2019, 11:41:22 am
The Landscape of Kevin, Chris and Michael (!) is missed. So far it has become a series of short rather irrelevant essays (at least to me). The often insightful and content rich interviews and discussions have vanished. I shall continue to check in for a while at least to see if things improve..... much of the archived content is still of interest and some forums provide good information.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 13, 2019, 03:10:49 pm
The Landscape of Kevin, Chris and Michael (!) is missed. So far it has become a series of short rather irrelevant essays (at least to me). The often insightful and content rich interviews and discussions have vanished. I shall continue to check in for a while at least to see if things improve..... much of the archived content is still of interest and some forums provide good information.

Which insightful interviews are you thinking about? The discussions, of course, are always insightful because we, the punters, provide them.

:-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on February 14, 2019, 07:17:39 am
Which insightful interviews are you thinking about?

Maybe the ones with good ol' boys drinking whiskey?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 14, 2019, 08:01:01 am
They are still drinking and having fun, but on another channel.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 14, 2019, 08:05:16 am
Maybe the ones with good ol' boys drinking whiskey?

Ah! As "in vino veritas", then?

I can't offer a best of, but if you want a worst of, then I'd have to admit that the recent Leica factory ones were the most embarrassing for me to watch. What a blatant (and thus worthless) PR exercise it appeared to me to be!

That said, Michael's factory visit at the launching of the M9 had me transfixed: I couldn't get my eyes off that baby on the table; I tried my best to have it shipped over by spiritual (if not intellectual) transmutation, but nothing damned well happened and I'm as Leicaless today as then. There must be a remarkable gap in my paranormal abilities.

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on February 14, 2019, 04:20:05 pm


I can't offer a best of, but if you want a worst of, then I'd have to admit that the recent Leica factory ones were the most embarrassing for me to watch. What a blatant (and thus worthless) PR exercise it appeared to me to be!


I thought the interview with Dr. Kaufmann was terrific.  He gave insights into his background and how that’s translated to the business strategy and product lines   And there were some good hints about product evolution, one of which has since materialized in the L-Mount alliance with Panasonic and Sigma; no small matter. Next we’ll see what he meant when he said the next SL would be ‘less brutal’ and ‘more elegant’.

More than I’ve learned here lately... but that’s not hard to do.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on February 14, 2019, 05:17:18 pm
I thought the interview with Dr. Kaufmann was terrific.  He gave insights into his background and how that’s translated to the business strategy and product lines   And there were some good hints about product evolution, one of which has since materialized in the L-Mount alliance with Panasonic and Sigma; no small matter. Next we’ll see what he meant when he said the next SL would be ‘less brutal’ and ‘more elegant’.

More than I’ve learned here lately... but that’s not hard to do.

Jeff

 ::)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 14, 2019, 05:26:54 pm
I thought the interview with Dr. Kaufmann was terrific.  He gave insights into his background and how that’s translated to the business strategy and product lines   And there were some good hints about product evolution, one of which has since materialized in the L-Mount alliance with Panasonic and Sigma; no small matter. Next we’ll see what he meant when he said the next SL would be ‘less brutal’ and ‘more elegant’.

More than I’ve learned here lately... but that’s not hard to do.

Jeff



That's an interesting point of view, and one expressed quite often across the forum.

Why do people look upon this website as predominantly a place for learning things? That seems such a boring way of looking at this or other sites. Yes, I have often lauded the expertise to be found here, and freely offered, but that's a now and then thing, not a reason or draw that keeps me checking in every day.

I tend to think that the Internet offers a lot more than a kind of school, a lecture hall for virtual study... it's also a pleasure dome of sorts, where one can simply - and here I am thinking strictly in photographic terms - enjoy, without some ulterior, greater or so-imagined better purpose.

It feels rather dull, if not exhausting, thinking of life's trip as a constant learning experience; yes, one might pick up some nugget of amazingly novel information now and then, but for me, I far more enjoy the sense of adventure and aesthetic thrill that comes from seeing some photographs that tick my various boxes.

I really believe that we reach information satiation point quite quickly in photography; as I have mentioned in the past, it's not difficult to do, and even with digital, once you know how to achieve your aim, there's no need at all to feel obliged to discover all the alternative routes to Rome.

I'm certainly not going to be drawn into an argument about the good Doctor K or anyone else, and frankly, I have no interest in anything that industrialists have to say unless they are about to offer me a surprise gig or three. As for indications of future products, unless I intend to build a museum of industrial design, it seems somewhat irrelevant to my life.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on February 14, 2019, 06:32:46 pm
A great teacher (and communicator) is a rare treat; Michael was one. I constantly learned from him (and his many collaborators) in ways both technical and aesthetic, and I miss those experiences here. I see no family resemblance thus far, other than a last name and an interest in photography. 

If I want to see photos, I look at prints and books, both of which I’ve collected for almost 40 years.  That process, along with making my own pictures and prints, and a love of art, has enriched my life in countless ways. I don’t look to online websites for meditating on random screen shots.

Boredom?  I get that from most forum discussions, only recently participating here despite years of following LuLa, only to provide one small voice regarding the direction of the site.

Not everyone will be pleased.  We each desire different things; no right or wrong. From the looks of it, I’ll probably be disappointed.  But it’s still early, and maybe I’ll be surprised. In any case, I hope the site continues, if for no other reason than access to the archives.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Chris Kern on February 14, 2019, 07:27:53 pm
for me, I far more enjoy the sense of adventure and aesthetic thrill that comes from seeing some photographs that tick my various boxes.

And, I would suggest, for discovering perspectives on the art (craft?) that differ from my own.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: StephenStarkman on February 17, 2019, 12:31:00 am
Hey Rob C.

You sir are an idiot for that response to me. Really. You are.   

Truly- would you have said those things to me face to face? Or conducted yourself in such a manner with anyone else if you were in the same room as they?

I doubt it.

Believe me, it looks worse on you in a public forum then on me.

Anyways, I’ve been around LuLa since the beginning, knew Michael and Chris since the 90s, contributed and supported to this site and to the people who ran it directly, in person, face to face. (Dunno where my posting history went but that’s another matter - I may have inadvertently reset something).

Sigh.






 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on February 17, 2019, 12:57:15 am
Buh-bye, LuLa.

LMAO! Have fun wank'n the "art" and "politics" angle!

:)

Would you have said any of this face to face with the the folks on this forum? Robs response was quite gentle and a little humerous compared to what you wrote don’t you think?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 17, 2019, 01:20:17 am
Quote
Missing you already, Stevie!
Those three post you gave us were so filled with emotional content, inspiration, wisdom and, well, just uplifting wonderment. I weep for the loss.
(Remember to pull the chain and wash your hands when you've finished.)
Ciao.

Hey Rob C.
You sir are an idiot for that response to me. Really. You are.   
Truly- would you have said those things to me face to face? Or conducted yourself in such a manner with anyone else if you were in the same room as they? I doubt it. Believe me, it looks worse on you in a public forum then on me.
Anyways, I’ve been around LuLa since the beginning, knew Michael and Chris since the 90s, contributed and supported to this site and to the people who ran it directly, in person, face to face. (Dunno where my posting history went but that’s another matter - I may have inadvertently reset something). Sigh.

There is a difference in those two posts. Rob's post was shorter, but more eloquent.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 17, 2019, 07:08:32 am
Can the Administrator lock this thread?  The personal attacks are getting tiresome.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on February 17, 2019, 08:07:17 am
PLEASE !
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 17, 2019, 09:13:42 am
To the most valuable contributor nobody ever heard of:

First you call as all wankers. Classy.

Then you call a forum member, directly, by name, an “idiot.” Unacceptable.

Since you didn’t leave as you promised in the first offending post, and returned to reoffend, time for the moderator to step in and make you keep your promise.

Reported to the moderator.

Bye.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 17, 2019, 01:09:40 pm
Can the Administrator lock this thread?  The personal attacks are getting tiresome.


No, no! No locking, please!

The thread had and can have better content than just the recent dodgy stuff.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 17, 2019, 02:16:21 pm
No, no! No locking, please!...

It must be a coincidence that it is always liberals who clamor for Soviet measures ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 17, 2019, 10:50:13 pm
It must be a coincidence that it is always liberals who clamor for Soviet measures ;)
Gee whiz! And I always thought I was a liberal. I wasn't aware of my Soviet connections.   ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 17, 2019, 11:02:43 pm
It's an oxymoron. Any liberals who get a taste of Soviet measures or connections stop being liberal.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on February 17, 2019, 11:17:43 pm
...And I always thought I was a liberal.

It’s ok, Eric, nobody is perfect  ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 18, 2019, 08:05:59 am
I always thought myself a realist, until I decided to become a pro photographer, of course, at which point I threw up my own hands and declared myself to be in those of God.

I guess He knew what I was doing! :-)

Trouble with political cant is that it prevents the acceptance of another party's beliefs when those are, indeed, good for the general population.

I have never voted "left" but admire the thinking behind the Brit National Health Service, if only because I know how expensive and, as a direct result, how many aspects of keeping alive are beyond the average Joe. Your life should not depend on your ability to turn a trick in bed or in business.

Having always voted "right" (when I could vote!) does not blind me to the folly of those who still live in fantasies of the Britain of Queen Victoria's day today.

You'd imagine that a coalition govt. would provide the answer, but of course it can't: each bit strives to become top cat...

Sometimes, were I allowed to drink again, I'd open another bottle of Gordon's and bid this crazy world good night for another 24 hours.

Instead, I get pissed off at myself and most things else.

:-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 18, 2019, 08:29:53 am
It must be a coincidence that it is always liberals who clamor for Soviet measures ;)
This is the comment of the third grader on a school playground.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 18, 2019, 02:08:15 pm

It must be a coincidence that it is always liberals who clamor for Soviet measures ;)

This is the comment of the third grader on a school playground.

Unlike yours? Accusations of childishness are seldom cogent.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Alan Goldhammer on February 18, 2019, 02:31:30 pm
This is the comment of the third grader on a school playground.


Unlike yours? Accusations of childishness are seldom cogent.

Jeremy
Finally we here from the Administrator!!!  Why don't you do the right thing and lock this thing down; it's gone way off the tracks.  If it takes a childish comment to accomplish this so be it.  You are supposed to keep track of what goes on and I see no signs that you are doing this.  If you accept a job then just do it.  Certain posters just try to troll people and in this they are too often successful.  I shall leave this conversation now as it's just pointless to the point of being laughable.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Kevin Gallagher on February 18, 2019, 03:25:54 pm

" I shall leave this conversation now as it's just pointless to the point of being laughable."

 Hope that's a promise you keep!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: vjbelle on February 18, 2019, 04:11:10 pm
Ever so often I read these longer threads...... always a good read.  This one is no exception.  All of the usual suspects and lots of BS slinging.  Maybe Josh can infuse a calming Zen kind of comment or so.......

Victor
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on February 18, 2019, 04:22:08 pm
Ever so often I read these longer threads...... always a good read.  This one is no exception.  All of the usual suspects and lots of BS slinging.  Maybe Josh can infuse a calming Zen kind of comment or so.......

Victor

Sure :
Be as careful as you can. Our minds are funny. Sometimes we are skeptical of things that are really worthwhile and completely accepting of things that we should avoid. Try to avoid extremes and follow the middle way, checking with wisdom wherever you go.
 Lama Zopa Rinpoche
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on February 18, 2019, 04:41:57 pm
Sure :
Be as careful as you can. Our minds are funny. Sometimes we are skeptical of things that are really worthwhile and completely accepting of things that we should avoid. Try to avoid extremes and follow the middle way, checking with wisdom wherever you go.
 Lama Zopa Rinpoche


Now that's cool moderation! Like it.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: vjbelle on February 18, 2019, 04:51:52 pm
 :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on February 18, 2019, 05:51:54 pm

Now that's cool moderation! Like it.

Rob
+1.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on February 18, 2019, 09:28:52 pm

Now that's cool moderation! Like it.

Rob

Agreed.  Particularly considering that Josh himself has taken far more abuse in this thread that any of the complainers. :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on February 19, 2019, 02:22:43 am
Finally we here from the Administrator!!!  Why don't you do the right thing and lock this thing down; it's gone way off the tracks.  If it takes a childish comment to accomplish this so be it.  You are supposed to keep track of what goes on and I see no signs that you are doing this.  If you accept a job then just do it.  Certain posters just try to troll people and in this they are too often successful.  I shall leave this conversation now as it's just pointless to the point of being laughable.

Your repeated whining at me because my approach to moderating a group differs from your own failed attempt is both tiresome and futile. As I have made clear elsewhere in this forum, I regard drift of a topic away from its original premise as a potentially Good Thing, not something to be discouraged.

I will certainly not lock a thread because of an infantile comment from a participant; the solution to degradation of debate in such a fashion is to remove the child, not to close the debate. As you profess to have removed yourself, the job is done (although I expect you'll return, as usual).

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on February 19, 2019, 09:52:48 am
In response to Jeremy's and Josh's comments above I withdraw my support for locking the thread with a mild sense of shame - you are right gentle moderating and patience are far better - I really want to avoid sovietization and remain merely a mildly conservative liberal.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: RogTallbloke on February 22, 2019, 04:55:24 pm
Sure :
Be as careful as you can. Our minds are funny. Sometimes we are skeptical of things that are really worthwhile and completely accepting of things that we should avoid. Try to avoid extremes and follow the middle way, checking with wisdom wherever you go.
 Lama Zopa Rinpoche

Wisdom is the domain of the Wis, which is extinct. ~Frank Zappa~  ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: DaveL on February 27, 2019, 01:06:34 pm
I'm so grateful I found this site so long ago.
I considered Michael to be a mentor, though we hadn't met.
His advice here helped me grow as a photographer.
His reviews and recommendations guided me as I spent money on equipment. I bought several cameras that I wouldn't have considered otherwise.

So this site changed my photo life, improving the quality of my work and enjoyment.

edit: others have said this so much better than I. 

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 27, 2019, 09:07:41 pm
Busy day, can someone write a quick summary of the conversation so far? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on February 27, 2019, 09:38:53 pm
Busy day, can someone write a quick summary of the conversation so far? ;)

That's where a good AI Forum Analyzer comes handy. A smart program which will scan all previous posts in a thread like this and produce a structured summary, accompanied with accurate statistics and multi-color pie charts:

1. Complaints (broken down into legitimate technical and editorial issues, and personal grievances)
    For the latter group, the program would suggest easy remedies in forms of proven medications, yoga exercises or good wine recommendations

2. Emerging Viewpoints And Trends (such data could be monetized by selling it to camera companies, Facebook and Twitter)

3. Constructive Ideas And Suggestions for New Website Articles 
 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Chris Kern on February 28, 2019, 12:12:26 pm
That's where a good AI Forum Analyzer comes handy. A smart program which will scan all previous posts in a thread like this and produce a structured summary, accompanied with accurate statistics and multi-color pie charts. . . .

. . . then (1) post all the comments that have not yet been posted and (2) close the thread because there is nothing more to be said.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 14, 2019, 12:06:59 pm
There were some complaints on this thread and elsewhere about the writing style on the front page. I thought it would be helpful to post some guidelines:

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on March 14, 2019, 01:05:56 pm
There were some complaints on this thread and elsewhere about the writing style on the front page. I thought it would be helpful to post some guidelines:
That covers it in fine style, Professor Slobodan. Thank you!  ;)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on March 14, 2019, 08:31:06 pm
Posting an article only once a week is another way to reduce errors.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on March 15, 2019, 05:47:09 pm
The latest article couldn’t even get past the title without a misspelling (‘heavan’), and again in the second sentence (‘intern’ vs in turn).  I gave up reading at that point.  If the publisher still doesn’t care enough to respect the readers, why bother?

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Joreur on March 15, 2019, 06:57:45 pm
If you do read the introductions written by Josh Reichman you will find that not only are they full of misspellings they also have many grammatical mistakes. Worst of all, even if you ignore all the stupid errors, they are utterly meaningless rubbish and an insult to the intelligence of the readers.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on March 15, 2019, 07:43:12 pm
The two errors I mentioned above have been corrected. Guess I should have mentioned two more in the first paragraph that I just read.  Pathetic.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 15, 2019, 07:43:35 pm
Posting an article only once a week...

What was the frequency in the past? I am asking as I didn’t pay much attention to the frequency, nor to the front page until recently.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 15, 2019, 07:46:04 pm
The two errors I mentioned above have been corrected. Guess I should have mentioned two more in the first paragraph that I just read.  Pathetic.

Adding some levity  :)

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 15, 2019, 07:49:26 pm
... they are utterly meaningless rubbish and an insult to the intelligence of the readers.

That sounds pretty harsh. I wonder if you’d care to elaborate?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on March 15, 2019, 09:04:56 pm
The two errors I mentioned above have been corrected. Guess I should have mentioned two more in the first paragraph that I just read.  Pathetic.

You’re acting like an ass.  Relax.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on March 15, 2019, 09:16:48 pm
You’re acting like an ass.  Relax.

An ass can serve a useful purpose. You’re more a hemorrhoid. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 15, 2019, 09:34:21 pm
An ass can serve a useful purpose. You’re more a hemorrhoid. 

Totally unfair characterization of my friend James, but... what a comeback!!! :D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: kers on March 15, 2019, 09:35:03 pm
So than i must be a...?

at least no misspellings :)

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on March 15, 2019, 09:56:30 pm
An ass can serve a useful purpose.

Never mind.   ::). Carry on.

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on March 16, 2019, 04:10:42 am
An ass can serve a useful purpose. You’re more a hemorrhoid.

Unacceptable abuse. Behave or be banned.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: amolitor on March 16, 2019, 08:30:28 am
Ok, so "ass" is ok, but "hemorrhoid" is not.

This is good information.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 16, 2019, 09:11:13 am
...at least no misspellings :)

Ahmmm...
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on March 16, 2019, 09:11:57 am
Ok, so "ass" is ok, but "hemorrhoid" is not.

This is good information.

I perhaps shouldn’t have said it.  OTOH, I don’t have a repeated pattern of posting nothing but insulting comments, and I did use it as as a descriptor of behavior, not a pointed personal insult.

Maybe splitting hairs, and I apologize to Jeremy and site ownership if it was out of bounds, but look at my posting history and that of the person I was speaking to, and come to your own conclusions. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 16, 2019, 09:21:11 am
Busy day, can someone write a quick summary of the conversation so far? ;)

Meandering between grammar and proctology  ;D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on March 16, 2019, 09:27:22 am
Meandering between grammar and proctology  ;D

That’s funny 😄
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 16, 2019, 09:53:45 am
I perhaps shouldn’t have said it.  OTOH, I don’t have a repeated pattern of posting nothing but insulting comments, and I did use it as as a descriptor of behavior, not a pointed personal insult.

Maybe splitting hairs, and I apologize to Jeremy and site ownership if it was out of bounds, but look at my posting history and that of the person I was speaking to, and come to your own conclusions. 

James, my friend, not “perhaps,” but definitely.

Perhaps being myself on the receiving end of PMs with similar characterization (mine was just more precise, with a reference to a circular part) made me desensitized toward the word, but it’s not cool to use it publicly. It is lamentable that more and more vulgarities are finding its way in public discourse, on TV, media, in politics, Congress even, but decent, reasonable, intelligent people should make every effort to refrain from it.

I don’t see anything in Jeff’s post that can be described as “a repeated pattern of posting nothing but insulting comments.” But even if there were, that doesn’t justify a personal attack, using a vulgarity. And no, saying “you act as an xyz,” for instance, is the same difference as “you are an xyz.”

Your admirable posting history, or anyone else’s, doesn’t come with bonus points that can be used for less admirable posts.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on March 16, 2019, 10:04:29 am
James, my friend, not “perhaps,” but definitely.

Perhaps being myself on the receiving end of PMs with similar characterization (mine was just more precise, with a reference to a circular part) made me desensitized toward the word, but it’s not cool to use it publicly. It is lamentable that more and more vulgarities are finding its way in public discourse, on TV, media, in politics, Congress even, but decent, reasonable, intelligent people should make every effort to refrain from it.

I don’t see anything in Jeff’s post that can be described as “a repeated pattern of posting nothing but insulting comments.” But even if there were, that doesn’t justify a personal attack, using a vulgarity. And no, saying “you act as an xyz,” for instance, is the same difference as “you are an xyz.”

Your admirable posting history, or anyone else’s, doesn’t come with bonus points that can be used for less admirable posts.

Point taken.

I have a bit of personal experience with, and sympathy for, the changes Josh is dealing with as he tries to revamp the site, create content and deal with things like ad revenue changes, personnel , etc. and I feel that essentially stalking this thread and popping up with an insult whenever there’s an error is both in poor taste and counterproductive.

But point taken.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on March 16, 2019, 10:45:52 am
^appreciated BTW.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on March 16, 2019, 10:59:21 am
Unacceptable abuse. Behave or be banned.

Jeremy

Help me understand. Presumably you read the post to which I responded.  So, would it have been more proper for me to instead have written “you’re acting more like a hemorrhoid”?  Seriously. I see no warning to James.

More importantly, my posts here (to which James implied I was an ass) were written as a long time subscriber (although infrequent commenter) concerned about the direction and future of the site. See my prior constructive recommendations about video content, etc.  I’ve been serious when I’ve recommended that Josh hire a copywriter or proofreader.  A professional site deserves no less.  Besides the written content, I think that the site requires a ‘face’, a strong personality to whom we can relate.  Michael was that.  Kevin was that. We’ve yet to see or hear from Josh other than in writing. I hope that’s not his strong suit.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on March 16, 2019, 11:26:42 am
Help me understand. Presumably you read the post to which I responded.  So, would it have been more proper for me to instead have written “you’re acting more like a hemorrhoid”?  Seriously. I see no warning to James.

Jeff, I apologize.

Jeremy, consider me "warned." Assume I am properly contrite. 

All good?

More importantly, my posts here (to which James implied I was an ass) were written as a long time subscriber (although infrequent commenter) concerned about the direction and future of the site. See my prior constructive recommendations about video content, etc.  I’ve been serious when I’ve recommended that Josh hire a copywriter or proofreader.  A professional site deserves no less.  Besides the written content, I think that the site requires a ‘face’, a strong personality to whom we can relate.  Michael was that.  Kevin was that. We’ve yet to see or hear from Josh other than in writing.

All fair.  All can be delivered constructively without insult.

I hope that’s not his strong suit.

This is your problem, albeit admittedly milder here than in evidence elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: JeffS on March 16, 2019, 11:40:00 am
Thanks, James.

My problem, indeed. I speak only for myself.  Others are free to agree or disagree, without being insulting.

Jeff
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on March 16, 2019, 01:51:19 pm
It is lamentable that more and more vulgarities are finding its way in public discourse ...
I am shocked, Slobodan! The Grammar Gremlins are right this minute sending their posse to correct you!    :D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on March 16, 2019, 01:59:35 pm
Jeff, I apologize.

Jeremy, consider me "warned." Assume I am properly contrite. 


It may be a cultural matter. The word "ass" has no particularly offensive meaning in English English: it means either a donkey or someone behaving in a foolish manner. That, therefore is how I read it and, at least in part, why no admonition was forthcoming.

On reflection, it may be that you were using the word as what, in English English, would be rendered as "arse". Even that, in English English, would probably not warrant reproach, being so very mild as to be close to usable in polite company.

Perhaps in American English the tone is more insulting and less acceptable, in which case I welcome your contrition.

Haemorrhoid, on the other hand, is never acceptable, whether or not correctly spelled.

I hope that clarifies matters.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on March 16, 2019, 02:00:51 pm
More importantly, my posts here (to which James implied I was an ass) were written as a long time subscriber (although infrequent commenter) concerned about the direction and future of the site. See my prior constructive recommendations about video content, etc.  I’ve been serious when I’ve recommended that Josh hire a copywriter or proofreader.  A professional site deserves no less.  Besides the written content, I think that the site requires a ‘face’, a strong personality to whom we can relate.  Michael was that.  Kevin was that. We’ve yet to see or hear from Josh other than in writing. I hope that’s not his strong suit.

My role here extends only to moderating the forum. In my professional life, I am a stickler for good grammar and correct punctuation and prose which lacks either distresses me.

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on March 16, 2019, 02:04:33 pm
Meandering between grammar and proctology  ;D

It's remarkable that nobody is attaching images on the said subject.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 16, 2019, 02:17:46 pm
I am shocked, Slobodan! The Grammar Gremlins are right this minute sending their posse to correct you!    :D

Nothing compared to this: ;)

^aporeciayed BTW.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 16, 2019, 02:27:41 pm
It may be a cultural matter. The word "ass" has no particularly offensive meaning in English English...

Amazing what one can learn in an international forum. Does that extend to down under? So when an Aussie sends me a PM and tells me I am an “aRsehole” I shall take it as a term of endearment?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 16, 2019, 02:46:03 pm
I am shocked, Slobodan! The Grammar Gremlins are right this minute sending their posse to correct you!    :D

I assume, Eric, that “vulgarity” is a thing, not a person?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: James Clark on March 16, 2019, 02:52:44 pm
It's remarkable that nobody is attaching images on the said subject.

Here ya go.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: bjanes on March 16, 2019, 04:29:37 pm
I assume, Eric, that “vulgarity” is a thing, not a person?

Slobodan,

The graphic you posted refers to American usage. In British English, collective nouns can take plural as well as singular verbs. In British sources I often see a plural verb used when referring to the actions or statements of a corporate entity. See here for an interesting discussion:

https://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/09/05/agreement-over-collective-nouns/

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on March 16, 2019, 05:10:22 pm
I assume, Eric, that “vulgarity” is a thing, not a person?
Correct.
But "vulgarities" is plural, while "its" is singular (or should I have said, "vulgarities are plural?")

The good news is, this latest kerfuffle shows that people on LuLa don't all think the same!   :)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Mark Lindquist on March 16, 2019, 05:15:01 pm
People make mistakes.  Mistakes can be corrected, or left unattended.  Computers make mistakes/typos, etc., that are rarely corrected except by proof reading, then correcting.

As has been said, or at least alluded to, Josh is swamped trying to keep the ship afloat and chart a new, yet similar course as his father. Big shoes to fill, as though he doesn't already know this. From what I've seen, he seems willing to take council, to learn, but has no other choice but to move on.  And the direction and course he has charted is ambitious.

In so many ways, websites can become schools (as in school of LuLa, School of FM, etc.), and the work shown and discussed for the most part fits within that school or oeuvre, and also, for the most part rarely deviates.  It appears there is a "new school" taking form, now, under the hands of Michael's son.

I have learned over 50 years of mucking about in the art world that artists/artisans come in many forms of correctness/incorrectness and that in many cases people are handicapped in one way or another such as having dyslexia, bipolar disorder, some form of  physical or mental defect that gives rise to their artistic prowess. What we might think a weakness becomes their strength and eventually these perceived flaws become accepted, overlooked or literally stylized.  The world is full of superstar performers that have defects, and in many cases the defects don't define them, they propel them to unexpected heights. 

So I am less quick to judge, having multiple defects myself which I recognize now as character, even having had to overcome several issues, and leveraging others.

Mistakes have been made.  More will be made in the future.  Any one here thinking they can do a better job, might then, should go do that. Anyone devoid of error, might then, should offer help or support.

How could we not all benefit from a new direction from a volunteer committed to leading in a new direction?

When I wrote an article called Landscapes of the Mind (https://luminous-landscape.com/landscapes-of-the-mind/) I expected a lot of flack from many LuLa members who would be offended by an article dealing with a subject matter that wasn't strictly "Landscape Art". I think of this article as being more aligned with the new direction LuLa is taking than what it has always been. I was surprised that the article was well received and in some cases appreciated.

So though this thread is actually about a lot of insecurity, it is also about second guessing leadership, and little about appreciation for what Josh is doing and trying to do.

So I state unequivically that I am for what Josh is doing and support his quest for change, while at the same time appreciating the past direction and all that entailed.

Walk that mile in another person's shoes and see from a different perspective, perhaps, before criticizing....

Ciao -

Mark
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on March 16, 2019, 05:52:56 pm
Mark, maybe it didn't strike you that many LuLanders don't have access to the zone where your missive was placed?

I, for one, currently do not and perhaps never again will. I could not access it just now through your link. I consider the thousands of posts I've bothered to write for LuLa more than make up for twelve bucks a year. If they don't, then why am I bothering at all?

This very perspective was mooted when the idea of making the site pay-for was first broached. Without the few people who regularly contribute something, this place would be dead. Come to think of it, many pros who posted great stuff have stopped posting images or given up completely. There is a difference, not such a subtle one, between sharing your work freely (as a pro) when nobody else is making money from it, and doing so when your supplied content becomes marketed as part of the site even though, technically, within the free zone of said site. You can't separate the two: those who come to see a particular person's images come for that chap's content, whether or not they pay to read some other stuff on the home page. That a site requires income is beyond dispute; the problem is sourcing that support wisely, and not by creating first- and second-class citizens.

Maybe LuLa is trying/planning to do too much and to be all things to all men. That has never worked.

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on March 16, 2019, 08:41:28 pm
People make mistakes.  Mistakes can be corrected, or left unattended.  Computers make mistakes/typos, etc., that are rarely corrected except by proof reading, then correcting.

As has been said, or at least alluded to, Josh is swamped trying to keep the ship afloat and chart a new, yet similar course as his father. Big shoes to fill, as though he doesn't already know this. From what I've seen, he seems willing to take council, to learn, but has no other choice but to move on.  And the direction and course he has charted is ambitious.

In so many ways, websites can become schools (as in school of LuLa, School of FM, etc.), and the work shown and discussed for the most part fits within that school or oeuvre, and also, for the most part rarely deviates.  It appears there is a "new school" taking form, now, under the hands of Michael's son.

I have learned over 50 years of mucking about in the art world that artists/artisans come in many forms of correctness/incorrectness and that in many cases people are handicapped in one way or another such as having dyslexia, bipolar disorder, some form of  physical or mental defect that gives rise to their artistic prowess. What we might think a weakness becomes their strength and eventually these perceived flaws become accepted, overlooked or literally stylized.  The world is full of superstar performers that have defects, and in many cases the defects don't define them, they propel them to unexpected heights. 

So I am less quick to judge, having multiple defects myself which I recognize now as character, even having had to overcome several issues, and leveraging others.

Mistakes have been made.  More will be made in the future.  Any one here thinking they can do a better job, might then, should go do that. Anyone devoid of error, might then, should offer help or support.

How could we not all benefit from a new direction from a volunteer committed to leading in a new direction?

When I wrote an article called Landscapes of the Mind (https://luminous-landscape.com/landscapes-of-the-mind/) I expected a lot of flack from many LuLa members who would be offended by an article dealing with a subject matter that wasn't strictly "Landscape Art". I think of this article as being more aligned with the new direction LuLa is taking than what it has always been. I was surprised that the article was well received and in some cases appreciated.

So though this thread is actually about a lot of insecurity, it is also about second guessing leadership, and little about appreciation for what Josh is doing and trying to do.

So I state unequivically that I am for what Josh is doing and support his quest for change, while at the same time appreciating the past direction and all that entailed.

Walk that mile in another person's shoes and see from a different perspective, perhaps, before criticizing....

Ciao -

Mark

Deeply appreciated.

Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Chris Kern on March 16, 2019, 09:53:22 pm
It may be a cultural matter. The word "ass" has no particularly offensive meaning in English English: it means either a donkey or someone behaving in a foolish manner. . . .  On reflection, it may be that you were using the word as what, in English English, would be rendered as "arse".  Even that, in English English, would probably not warrant reproach, being so very mild as to be close to usable in polite company.  Perhaps in American English the tone is more insulting and less acceptable . . .

There is no more compelling evidence for the proposition that Brits and Americans* are two peoples separated by a common language than our respective choices of epithets, and sensitivity thereto.

Having said that, "ass" is no more offensive on our side of the ocean than yours.  "Arse" is rarely heard hereabouts except when uttered by as-yet-unassimilated Brits and Australasians.

A thread on the most colorful (colourful?) derogatory terms used in various countries and cultures would be interesting and most instructive.

———
*"Estadounidences," for anyone who may be reading this from south of the planned structure about which I must not speak disparagingly for fear of becoming caught in the site management's moderatorical clutches.  (I don't know what term Canadians use to refer to us these days—it is sometimes asserted that they are also inhabitants of America—and am hesitant to ask.)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on March 17, 2019, 12:30:31 am

I have learned over 50 years of mucking about in the art world that artists/artisans come in many forms of correctness/incorrectness and that in many cases people are handicapped in one way or another such as having dyslexia, bipolar disorder, some form of  physical or mental defect that gives rise to their artistic prowess. What we might think a weakness becomes their strength and eventually these perceived flaws become accepted, overlooked or literally stylized.  The world is full of superstar performers that have defects, and in many cases the defects don't define them, they propel them to unexpected heights. 

...

When I wrote an article called Landscapes of the Mind (https://luminous-landscape.com/landscapes-of-the-mind/) I expected a lot of flack from many LuLa members who would be offended by an article dealing with a subject matter that wasn't strictly "Landscape Art". I think of this article as being more aligned with the new direction LuLa is taking than what it has always been. I was surprised that the article was well received and in some cases appreciated.

Mark

Mark,

thank you for posting the link to your most interesting article, accompanied with many amazing images.
This took me to your website and from there I travelled to the video with you and Dr. Sara Robinson on spalted wood artwork (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA4TYc8a1IQ&feature=youtu.be), equally interesting. You are indeed a multi-talented artist and craftsman.

BTW, that article alone is worth the $12 annual subscription to LuLa.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on March 17, 2019, 04:00:16 am
Amazing what one can learn in an international forum. Does that extend to down under? So when an Aussie sends me a PM and tells me I am an “aRsehole” I shall take it as a term of endearment?

I wouldn't presume to say; I don't speak Australian. I have, however, gained the impression that robustness of language and a wide-ranging vocabulary of invective is not entirely un-Antipodean.

Your post on the use of "it" and "they" may be correct in the US, but is not applicable over here. I act for and against corporate bodies every day, and always refer to them in the plural, both in conversation and in formal documentation. On the other hand, I refuse to use "they" to refer to a human individual.

Isn't grammar wonderful?

Jeremy
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on March 17, 2019, 08:58:52 am
Isn't grammar wonderful?
Don't you mean: "Aren't grammar wonderfuls?"   :D  :D
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on March 17, 2019, 09:08:13 am
Haemorrhoid, on the other hand, is never acceptable, whether or not correctly spelled.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hemorrhoids/symptoms-causes/syc-20360268

Apparently it was. I was surprised too.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 17, 2019, 09:18:11 am
... "ass" is no more offensive on our side of the ocean than yours...

So, if I call you a dick, that wouldn’t be offensive either? After all, they are just two sides of the same coin? On both sides of the ocean?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Chris Kern on March 17, 2019, 09:29:50 am
So, if I call you a dick, that wouldn’t be offensive either? After all, they are just two sides of the same coin? On both sides of the ocean?

It depends on the continentext.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 17, 2019, 09:37:23 am
It depends on the continentext.

Well done! 🙃
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Mark Lindquist on March 17, 2019, 11:23:39 am
Mark, maybe it didn't strike you that many LuLanders don't have access to the zone where your missive was placed?

I, for one, currently do not and perhaps never again will. I could not access it just now through your link. I consider the thousands of posts I've bothered to write for LuLa more than make up for twelve bucks a year. If they don't, then why am I bothering at all?

This very perspective was mooted when the idea of making the site pay-for was first broached. Without the few people who regularly contribute something, this place would be dead. Come to think of it, many pros who posted great stuff have stopped posting images or given up completely. There is a difference, not such a subtle one, between sharing your work freely (as a pro) when nobody else is making money from it, and doing so when your supplied content becomes marketed as part of the site even though, technically, within the free zone of said site. You can't separate the two: those who come to see a particular person's images come for that chap's content, whether or not they pay to read some other stuff on the home page. That a site requires income is beyond dispute; the problem is sourcing that support wisely, and not by creating first- and second-class citizens.

Maybe LuLa is trying/planning to do too much and to be all things to all men. That has never worked.

Rob

Rob, you have a point which is taken, and for your benefit and others who are equally objecting to the $1.00 per month toll, you may visit Landscapes of the Mind (Free) (http://marklindquistphotography.com/_Mark_Lindquist_Photography_LuLa_Article.htm)

I agree with several of your points, particularly finding revenue resources that don’t involve a pay wall, but I’m afraid it’s easier said than done. I guess $12 bucks is a year is a hardship for some, and/or a point of order for others....

I for one don’t have a dog in this fight, I sprang for the $12 bucks even though I’m a contributing author and didn’t get the free-bee membership (maybe because I haven’t contributed an article in a while). It’s worth it to me because I’m intersted in where the site has been and where it’s going. Not having this particular axe to grind is a nice unencumberance, for me, actually, however.

As for having contributed and thinking that LuLa might be making money off of my article, I say: “more power to them.” I would be glad if it was the case, yet I know it is a small contribution in light of the whole that LuLa represents. It may be a mindset of entitlement or a principle that I am missing, perhaps that creates the divide. I believe in supporting, ie, giving, without expectations or strings attached.

On that note, I thought that Michael’s Luminous Landscape Endowment was a great idea, (and I put my money where my mouth is), but I see precious few who have also made a committment to supporting the endowment which is now floundering. (See sponsors list) (http://www.luminous-endowment.org/pages/sponsors.html)

But hey - live and let live.  I’m not criticising you for your position, but I’m not apologizing for mine either.

I guess I would be interested in your alternatives to a pay wall, specifically, that would generate the funds requied to pay for the infrastructure, servers, tech support, actual running costs, etc., that would be more efficient or at least generate the same income or better to enable LuLa to tear down the wall.

I’m a pretty good businessman, but a much better artist, I’ve been told, so it’s just not in my wheelhouse to supply an answer. I’d love to see the paywall come down and have Lula go back to a free state, so if you have answers, definitely please don’t hold back.

Thanks Rob -

Mark
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Mark Lindquist on March 17, 2019, 11:28:28 am
Mark,

thank you for posting the link to your most interesting article, accompanied with many amazing images.
This took me to your website and from there I travelled to the video with you and Dr. Sara Robinson on spalted wood artwork (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA4TYc8a1IQ&feature=youtu.be), equally interesting. You are indeed a multi-talented artist and craftsman.

BTW, that article alone is worth the $12 annual subscription to LuLa.

Thanks Les -
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Ray Cox on March 17, 2019, 11:52:36 am
Mark,

thank you for posting the link to your most interesting article, accompanied with many amazing images.
This took me to your website and from there I travelled to the video with you and Dr. Sara Robinson on spalted wood artwork (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA4TYc8a1IQ&feature=youtu.be), equally interesting. You are indeed a multi-talented artist and craftsman.

BTW, that article alone is worth the $12 annual subscription to LuLa.

My sentiments exactly!
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on March 17, 2019, 12:31:53 pm
... There is a difference, not such a subtle one, between sharing your work freely (as a pro) when nobody else is making money from it...

There is a hole in that argument: the site was making money even when it wasn't behind a paywall, via advertisers, or selling videos. Adding $12 to it is completely irrelevant as an argument.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: John R on March 17, 2019, 11:04:13 pm
My sentiments exactly!
Enjoyed video with Dr Robinson and the Landscapes of the Mind article. Particularly how Mark described developing his ideas for abstract photography.

JR
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: jeremyrh on March 18, 2019, 04:22:43 am
BTW, that article alone is worth the $12 annual subscription to LuLa.

It is, but on the downside, it makes me even more conscious of how little I have achieved :-(
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on March 18, 2019, 05:10:37 am
There is a hole in that argument: the site was making money even when it wasn't behind a paywall, via advertisers, or selling videos. Adding $12 to it is completely irrelevant as an argument.

That may be a hole for you, but it isn't for me.

Advertisers were doing the paying, not the readership, and whatever readers contributed they did for the commonweal or their own pleasure. That has changed radically. People buying how-to videos were buying a physical product made by LuLa management (and perhaps contribted to by people happy with the idea), not by unpaid folks like me.

And yes, twelve bucks is indeed irrelevant: it's the principle of the thing that grates.

But then I earned my bread from photography, so it's no laughing matter to me, and is echoed in my disgust at the shamateur and the penny-stock ethos that destroyed a great industry.

And no, I am sure there are no tears for that sentiment; on Lula, how could there be?

Rob
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on March 18, 2019, 06:01:44 am
Rob, you have a point which is taken, and for your benefit and others who are equally objecting to the $1.00 per month toll, you may visit Landscapes of the Mind (Free) (http://marklindquistphotography.com/_Mark_Lindquist_Photography_LuLa_Article.htm)

I agree with several of your points, particularly finding revenue resources that don’t involve a pay wall, but I’m afraid it’s easier said than done. I guess $12 bucks is a year is a hardship for some, and/or a point of order for others....

I for one don’t have a dog in this fight, I sprang for the $12 bucks even though I’m a contributing author and didn’t get the free-bee membership (maybe because I haven’t contributed an article in a while). It’s worth it to me because I’m intersted in where the site has been and where it’s going. Not having this particular axe to grind is a nice unencumberance, for me, actually, however.

As for having contributed and thinking that LuLa might be making money off of my article, I say: “more power to them.” I would be glad if it was the case, yet I know it is a small contribution in light of the whole that LuLa represents. It may be a mindset of entitlement or a principle that I am missing, perhaps that creates the divide. I believe in supporting, ie, giving, without expectations or strings attached.

On that note, I thought that Michael’s Luminous Landscape Endowment was a great idea, (and I put my money where my mouth is), but I see precious few who have also made a committment to supporting the endowment which is now floundering. (See sponsors list) (http://www.luminous-endowment.org/pages/sponsors.html)

But hey - live and let live.  I’m not criticising you for your position, but I’m not apologizing for mine either.

I guess I would be interested in your alternatives to a pay wall, specifically, that would generate the funds requied to pay for the infrastructure, servers, tech support, actual running costs, etc., that would be more efficient or at least generate the same income or better to enable LuLa to tear down the wall.

I’m a pretty good businessman, but a much better artist, I’ve been told, so it’s just not in my wheelhouse to supply an answer. I’d love to see the paywall come down and have Lula go back to a free state, so if you have answers, definitely please don’t hold back.

Thanks Rob -

Mark

Mark, there was an answer, which was what LuLa was doing under the guidance of Michael. I gather he did it for love, not for turning a buck, which is a completely different matter.

Of course, I am not privy to any insider information about that, whether it was a sustainable situation or not; Michael died and Kevin represented a totally different mindset, and now, in his turn, Reichmann Jr a different one too. I even wonder why he took this place on/over/or whatever the case was. If it's to make a living, I'd do something else.

It is said that the slow death of the dslr market is killing off the camera sellers too, in which case it could well be that those companies that might have backed a site such as LuLa with ads, find it isn't worth the candle any longer.

If that's so, then perhaps it's time to accept that sites such as this have outlived their time as have some of us individuals, too.

My attitude to paying or not paying into photography-based websites is perhaps not shared by many. I come to it from my current interest in the photographic world, which is thus:

a. my last camera, bought new, was a D700, and I have absolutely no wish to replace it, and in fact, I use my even older D200 a lot more then the D700. I have zero interest in other cameras and therefore, tests and reviews. My photographic limitations are not with equipment, as I suspect is true for almost all LuLa readers;

b. having spent my life making photographs I find no pleasure in other people's suggestions of how to improve my own pictures, the reason I started the Without Prejudice space. I don't look at many published images in LuLa because after a while I realised that most of them are not relevant to my mind, and I saw that very few people understand anything about genre - it's almost impossible for many to recognize that photography is not just some massive, sticky goo of anything goes and everything is equal. Basically, that's pretty damned depressing for me;

c. today, the best I get from photography online is finding golden nuggets from photographers whose work I have admired for as long as I can remember; most of them are/were in the world of fashion/advertising. The so-called concept and art world of photographic trendies leaves me pretty damned cold.

So yeah, I can come up with no workable way to magic up money either. As I sort of asked, is LuLa to be a money machine or a bit of fun for its publisher?

Rob

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: KLaban on March 18, 2019, 09:16:00 am
Having been gifted a subscription for 3 years during Michael's stewardship - I'm not sure why but I'm very grateful - it is only recently that I've had to make the decision on whether to continue to be a subscriber. I'm here for the Forum, only occasionally visit the Home Page and rarely read the articles. The subscription fee was not an issue, a buck a month is not going to break the bank.

I decided to subscribe for a number of reasons, not least of which was the feeling that if the site fails to attract enough paying punters then it is likely that LuLa and the Forum I value would in turn fail. I also felt that it would be difficult to monitor and assess the direction of the site under the new management without being able to access the content.

I'm under no illusion that my contributions to LuLa matter to anyone other than myself, I contribute merely because over the years I have enjoyed doing so and hope to continue. I wish LuLa well. 
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on March 18, 2019, 09:33:17 am
I decided to subscribe for a number of reasons, not least of which was the feeling that if the site fails to attract enough paying punters then it is likely that LuLa and the Forum I value would in turn fail. I also felt that it would be difficult to monitor and assess the direction of the site under the new management without being able to access the content.

I'm under no illusion that my contributions to LuLa matter to anyone other than myself, I contribute merely because over the years I have enjoyed doing so and hope to continue. I wish LuLa well.


+1 !
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: kers on March 18, 2019, 09:35:52 am
I visit Lula now for several years and still enjoy visiting it. Also for me the forum is most important, but even to keep that up costs money.
In a world everything on internet seems to be gratis, we know it is not. I try to avoid facebook and google for that reason.
Instead i am happy to give little support to some websites that matter to me and give real information, like Lula and Wikipedia.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on March 18, 2019, 11:08:52 am
Having been gifted a subscription for 3 years during Michael's stewardship - I'm not sure why but I'm very grateful - it is only recently that I've had to make the decision on whether to continue to be a subscriber. I'm here for the Forum, only occasionally visit the Home Page and rarely read the articles. The subscription fee was not an issue, a buck a month is not going to break the bank.

I decided to subscribe for a number of reasons, not least of which was the feeling that if the site fails to attract enough paying punters then it is likely that LuLa and the Forum I value would in turn fail. I also felt that it would be difficult to monitor and assess the direction of the site under the new management without being able to access the content.

I'm under no illusion that my contributions to LuLa matter to anyone other than myself, I contribute merely because over the years I have enjoyed doing so and hope to continue. I wish LuLa well.
Keith has described my own feelings about LuLa very accurately.

Eric
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: elliot_n on March 20, 2019, 08:36:22 am
Far be it from me to teach/question you on things Buddhist (meant with sincerity), but from a layperson's perspective this comment in Wiki has me confused re your statement of Samsara and Nirvana being "one."

As a temple to dualistic thinking, wikipedia isn't the best source for an understanding of buddhist ontology. Josh is correct — samsara and nirvana are one. As it says in The Heart Sutra, 'Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form'. Transcendence is immanence.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on March 20, 2019, 09:25:07 am
As a temple to dualistic thinking, wikipedia isn't the best source for an understanding of buddhist ontology. Josh is correct — samsara and nirvana are one. As it says in The Heart Sutra, 'Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form'. Transcendence is immanence.

And to think that I imagined that gallerist-speak was something new!

;-)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on March 20, 2019, 09:37:35 am
As a temple to dualistic thinking, Wikipedia isn't the best source for an understanding of Buddhist ontology. Josh is correct — samsara and nirvana are one. As it says in The Heart Sutra, 'Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form'. Transcendence is immanence.

Indeed.
To explore more deeply people might look to terms such as Tathāgatagarbha, or Dharmakaya.
The idea of “Buddha nature”, or an endogenous Buddha quality resting and ready to be matured within all mind-streams (human and otherwise), the latter term is the idea of a non dual “space” of conscious arising which is both with and without form and beyond conceptual containment, only to be “known” through direct realization.

This dharmakaya is spontaneously and concurrently arrising beyond time and form and yet also manifesting within these, only to be reached through meditational equipoise and a “purified” view of phenomenon. 

This type of thinking amounts to what is called the prasangika madhyamaka, commonly known as the middle path. A view which is taught by the Dali Lama and the lineage I work with.
😊
 
(A galarist would obscure and abstract this - which would be a shame I agree!)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on March 20, 2019, 10:01:40 am
Indeed.
To explore more deeply people might look to terms such as Tathāgatagarbha, or Dharmakaya.
The idea of “Buddha nature”, or an endogenous Buddha quality resting and ready to be marured within all mind-streams (human and otherwise), the later term being the idea of a non dual “space” of conscious arrising which is both with and without form and beyond conceptual containment, only to be “known” through direct realization.

This dharmakaya is spontaneously and concurrently arrising beyond time and form and yet also manifesting within these, only to be reached through meditational equipoise and a “purified” view of phenomenon. 

This type of thinking amounts to what is called the prasangika madhyamaka, commonly known as the middle path. A view which is taught by the Dali Lama and the lineage I work with.
😊
 
(A galarist would obscure and abstract this - which would be a shame I agree!)

But hey, there's not a lot new under the spaced out Sun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm6qw_yeo6o

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on March 20, 2019, 10:20:20 am
But hey, there's not a lot new under the spaced out Sun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm6qw_yeo6o



Uh oh, are we gonna start a metaphysical code chat through music !?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on March 20, 2019, 10:38:38 am
Having access to LuLa and youtube is all one needs for happiness
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: elliot_n on March 20, 2019, 10:40:09 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDgHUj8sJaQ
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on March 20, 2019, 11:11:02 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDgHUj8sJaQ

"."
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rob C on March 20, 2019, 03:40:02 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDgHUj8sJaQ



Mark Rothko should sue.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: 32BT on March 20, 2019, 05:50:23 pm
There's apparently room for a new business opportunity on the new LuLa.

Artist statement on demand...

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: dng88 on May 14, 2019, 06:49:56 am
Sad to see this happen.  Still have the dvd but only once a year after Micheal is gone. And mainly to see old article or forum.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Paul Wright on May 31, 2019, 01:33:04 am
Out of interest, how are visitor numbers and participation statistics compared to say, 12 months ago?
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on May 31, 2019, 09:20:14 am
Out of interest, how are visitor numbers and participation statistics compared to say, 12 months ago?

Dramatically up. From daily user, imprints, article reads and most notably (minus the latest article which is perhaps too far tilted to the philosophical side, though the authors last piece was shared over 130x etc) the shares of articles are in numbers never seen on Lula.

Though, I’d say there is less consistency. And its difficult to track responses based on themes, as there are many different kinds of Lula members and different optimal times to publish etc.

I’ve been experimenting and feeling out my own interests and responding to the community and there have been wider swings of engagement but larger numbers then 12 months ago. Seems reasonable given my style.

Overall our articles now have upward of 10/15 even 20k views which is new and about 10x the precious average. I do think there is a new wave of people entering the space. I can’t attribute that to any one factor or my doing.

We have yet to relaunch our social media and the site has also not launched its touch up / redesign because we’ve been focusing on moving servers, fixing backend issues and some long term systemic UX things which preceded Kevin’s tenure but carried forward. The site is being updated to last.

Subscriptions are up.

But, I’d say my challenge is to get published the new tutorials which we are working on and to reorganize the categories. This is in the works among other new features!

Your question is timely as we are having a full discussion on our diagnostics and other insights today (now)
Anyways, thought I’d chime in rather than watch speculation “go wild”.

Josh
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Krug on May 31, 2019, 11:05:06 am
I am delighted to see those figures for use of the site and find them heartening for the future prospects of Lula  -  frankly I did not enjoy the previous period and felt that it veered too much from the mien and value of the original site.  There are and will be aspects of the new direction that, like everyone I guess, I will not especially enjoy but that is what makes a site worth visiting and reading and thinking about.  There are sites aplenty for the more 'routine' and predictable aspects and approaches to photography when one needs those  ...  Reid Reviews and Diglloyd for in depth or controversial reviews of potential kit, Fred Miranda for regular news and everyday examples of what others are doing and many other suchlike  ...  Lula should plough a different furrow, methinks.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: alainbriot on May 31, 2019, 12:09:21 pm
Congratulations Josh.  Hard work is paying off.  I enjoy the variety of essays you publish.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Robert Roaldi on May 31, 2019, 01:44:26 pm
Congratulations Josh.  Hard work is paying off.  I enjoy the variety of essays you publish.

Ditto. I never understood the fear of change that emerged during the changeover.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: LesPalenik on May 31, 2019, 11:16:57 pm
Congratulations Josh.  Hard work is paying off.  I enjoy the variety of essays you publish.

I also enjoy the variety of the articles. You never know what will come next.
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: petermfiore on June 01, 2019, 08:14:42 am
Ditto. I never understood the fear of change that emerged during the changeover.

Change is the most fear inducing nature of humanity. Mostly, because it kicks in before any facts have been brought to the table.

Peter
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on June 01, 2019, 09:24:18 am
Change is the most fear inducing nature of humanity. Mostly, because it kicks in before any facts have been brought to the table.

Peter
Well put. That certainly has been demonstrated with the changing of the guard at LuLa.
Understandably, there have been kinks, but it looks to me as if Josh and his team have been quite responsive.

Eric
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Paul Wright on June 04, 2019, 05:38:16 am
Dramatically up. From daily user, imprints, article reads and most notably (minus the latest article which is perhaps too far tilted to the philosophical side, though the authors last piece was shared over 130x etc) the shares of articles are in numbers never seen on Lula.

Your question is timely as we are having a full discussion on our diagnostics and other insights today (now)
Anyways, thought I’d chime in rather than watch speculation “go wild”.

Josh

Great news Josh. Thanks for responding. You and your team are obviously on the right track.

-pwp
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: Rand47 on June 12, 2019, 08:55:58 am
Ditto. I never understood the fear of change that emerged during the changeover.

For some, myself included, it wasn’t change per se, rather the manner of how it was handled.  I like change.  I detest disrespect. 

While much of the change here is not my cup of tea, I’m glad the site is doing well. The denizens of the forum pages I visit most are a very valuable resource.

Rand

Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on June 14, 2019, 12:23:11 pm
Great news Josh. Thanks for responding. You and your team are obviously on the right track.

-pwp

Thank you!
It’s been a whirlwind and things are just about to pick up in an even more exciting way!
Doing our best - the little team currently at the helm is working tirelessly, just as everyone who has contributed to Lula has done.
It is a special endeavour which I remain honoured to carry forward, everyday. But yeah, lots of energizing developments churning about here.

Thanks all

Josh
(From the home of the NBA champs 🌟)
Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: VidJa on August 13, 2019, 05:56:12 pm
Thanks for bringing back the essence of the site.
I learned a lot during the early days but my attention slipped.

Its returning fast with inspiration from your (contributors) articles.


Title: Re: The Changing Landscape
Post by: josh.reichmann on August 14, 2019, 06:55:30 pm
Thanks for bringing back the essence of the site.
I learned a lot during the early days but my attention slipped.

Its returning fast with inspiration from your (contributors) articles.

Very much appreciated.

Best,
Josh