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Author Topic: The Changing Landscape  (Read 43459 times)

faberryman

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #360 on: February 08, 2019, 04:35:10 pm »

Like getting drunk: nobody is pouring it down your throat but yourself.
This is the About This Site forum not Coffee Corner. I was happily reading about changes to the site and somebody without warning drops a stink bomb about Brexit.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 05:50:59 pm by faberryman »
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Ray Harrison

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #361 on: February 08, 2019, 05:37:20 pm »


There was at least one sensible and easy solution: people who crossed from argument (I won't claim there was much debate) into insult could have been switched off for a while with a public reason given. Why not - if one transgresses in public...

Politics is perhaps the most important aspect of public life these days - seems perverse to remove it from the gamut of a "Coffee Corner" slot as if we were all children.

But hey, not my call.

As recently as the 90s (I like to say that's recent :)), I was able to have interesting political debates with my friends, colleagues and the occasional stranger, many of whom had completely opposing viewpoints. Often, the viewpoints and stances were well thought out and while the discussions could be raucous, the discussions had some level of substance and even a degree of empathy. Today, to me, most political discussions are simply toxic unless everyone is in the same political tribe. The above discussion, I should say, doesn't particularly seem "toxic" to me,  but my own beef with political discussions in a subject-focused forum is they often just take a topic (often not related to politics) down a rabbit hole from which there is no return.

I would love a respite from politics, as others have said, as it causes a lot of noise in today's world. That said, to me, banning political discussion is probably more trouble than it is worth, given human nature. All apes are political, including humans. One approach could be that mods have a remit to keep the threads focused loosely on the stated topic. So you could have politics come in, as it has in this one, but instead of mods saying "politics is banned", they could instead say, "get the thread back on track" if it threatens to completely derail it. Obviously, there is some level of subjectivity as well as using good judgement.

Also, instead of just a generic "coffee corner", add a specific political one, with a warning that the discussions are often toxic. If people get too abusive, they get put into timeout or banned or whatever. Some sites require that any political or religious topics can be read by anyone but only be participated in by people with a certain number of posts, for example. Jeremy would still have his work cut out for him, obviously. But political subjects that threaten to derail one of the main threads could then be shunted off to the political "happy place".

So,
(1) Remove ban on politics
(2) Moderate the threads more from the point of you of keeping them loosely on track rather than chasing political discussions specifically
(3) Provide a place where political talk can happen (I know it was tried unsuccessfully before)
(4) Time-out/ban if too toxic.

It moves politics out to where people can go focus on it if that's of interest to them. Yeah, I get that it's not photography or art or even always interesting. But politics is still going to happen here, simply because over the years it has a long history of doing so, with a not always successful history of stopping it.

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Rob C

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #362 on: February 08, 2019, 05:47:08 pm »

As recently as the 90s (I like to say that's recent :)), I was able to have interesting political debates with my friends, colleagues and the occasional stranger, many of whom had completely opposing viewpoints. Often, the viewpoints and stances were well thought out and while the discussions could be raucous, the discussions had some level of substance and even a degree of empathy. Today, to me, most political discussions are simply toxic unless everyone is in the same political tribe. The above discussion, I should say, doesn't particularly seem "toxic" to me,  but my own beef with political discussions in a subject-focused forum is they often just take a topic (often not related to politics) down a rabbit hole from which there is no return.

I would love a respite from politics, as others have said, as it causes a lot of noise in today's world. That said, to me, banning political discussion is probably more trouble than it is worth, given human nature. All apes are political, including humans. One approach could be that mods have a remit to keep the threads focused loosely on the stated topic. So you could have politics come in, as it has in this one, but instead of mods saying "politics is banned", they could instead say, "get the thread back on track" if it threatens to completely derail it. Obviously, there is some level of subjectivity as well as using good judgement.

Also, instead of just a generic "coffee corner", add a specific political one, with a warning that the discussions are often toxic. If people get too abusive, they get put into timeout or banned or whatever. Some sites require that any political or religious topics can be read by anyone but only be participated in by people with a certain number of posts, for example. Jeremy would still have his work cut out for him, obviously. But political subjects that threaten to derail one of the main threads could then be shunted off to the political "happy place".

So,
(1) Remove ban on politics
(2) Moderate the threads more from the point of you of keeping them loosely on track rather than chasing political discussions specifically
(3) Provide a place where political talk can happen (I know it was tried unsuccessfully before)
(4) Time-out/ban if too toxic.

It moves politics out to where people can go focus on it if that's of interest to them. Yeah, I get that it's not photography or art or even always interesting. But politics is still going to happen here, simply because over the years it has a long history of doing so, with a not always successful history of stopping it.

All good points, Ray. I think your (3) sits perfectly within the concept of the Coffee Corner, especially if under its own heading of Politics.

Nobody who feels aggrieved by the subject need even peep!

Rob

Wayne Fox

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #363 on: February 08, 2019, 06:29:38 pm »

LuLa, whatever you think of the content or the management team, is a commercial enterprise.

If you're going to advertise another commercial enterprise, especially a competing one, buy a damn ad.
there are frequently links posted in the forum to “competing” content, usually by the authors. I’ve always felt if you create a topic to tell everyone about your new video on your own website it’s a little inappropriate (except for vendors bring us information about their equipment) Throwing a link about some content you created that actually answers a question relating to the topic of the thread seems OK.  LuLa has always been pretty tolerant But if you are referring to the link to Kevins’ new site in an earlier post, he nor any of his team posted it. So it’s just one of those things.

As far as “competing”, true, but in reality it’s like the movies. We don’t pick one and never see the other. We go see the ones we are interested in.  Same with the websites we choose to visit.  I’ll continue to frequent the forums here, it’s a daily activity I enjoy, and this is one of a few websites I enjoy frequenting.  I’m guessing Kevin’s new site will become one of those as well. I’ve especially enjoyed the videos and those involved. Its not like I have to quit coming to this site because I also want to go to another one.
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amolitor

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #364 on: February 08, 2019, 06:51:43 pm »

I do not think for one second that Kevin or any of his team were in any way involved in posting the link to his new project here. He's pretty professional.
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John R

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #365 on: February 09, 2019, 12:22:31 am »

This is a photography website and I come here for photography. If I want politics I'll go elsewhere. I don't want to be bothered even having to delete emails from or wade past posts on this website that get into political opinions regardless of the pretexts or the merits. I expect the moderator to sandbox such posts and ask their authors to desist; otherwise the quality of the Forum in respect of photography is diluted. This is my firmly held view of the matter, it won't change and I won't respond to rejoinders on it.
I agree with this sentiment. If my photo magazine had the kind of discussions and/or content as per the political discussions in the Coffee Corner, I, and I suspect the vast majority, would end our subscription/s. We have to be reasonable, this is a photographic site. And why should the Moderator/s spend their time on political content? It is hard enough moderating regular photographic content and still maintain civility.

JR
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jeremyrh

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #366 on: February 09, 2019, 03:01:14 am »

This is my firmly held view of the matter, it won't change and I won't respond to rejoinders on it.

Typical Canon user.
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Jonathan Cross

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #367 on: February 09, 2019, 03:33:54 am »

Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic.  I will just have to accept that I give up and may miss something.
Jonathan
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Jonathan in UK

Rob C

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #368 on: February 09, 2019, 03:50:50 am »

Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic.  I will just have to accept that I give up and may miss something.
Jonathan


Aaaah.... never mind, you'll get over it in time!

;-)

Rob C

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #369 on: February 09, 2019, 03:59:50 am »

I agree with this sentiment. If my photo magazine had the kind of discussions and/or content as per the political discussions in the Coffee Corner, I, and I suspect the vast majority, would end our subscription/s. We have to be reasonable, this is a photographic site. And why should the Moderator/s spend their time on political content? It is hard enough moderating regular photographic content and still maintain civility.

JR

But not only that.

If politics is given its clearly marked place in the CC, then neither you nor anyone else need ever have to soil their fragile collective consciousness with political chat again! And for the rest of us with interest in a reality beyond blurry snaps or others so sharp as to provide a public danger to health, we get to enjoy a deeper relationship with our present online friends that we otherwise can.

And all in one place! What's not to like? And it even gives the banners a shot of puritanical joy in the attempt to get banning done!

Win - win!

LesPalenik

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #370 on: February 09, 2019, 04:29:39 am »

I can understand the position of the site owners and the moderator(s) about the political topics. I can understand also that there are forum members (at least ten or even twenty) who don't want to see the photography site contaminated by politics.  However, judging from the popularity, number of posts and huge numbers of page hits on the previous political threads, there must have been hundreds or even thousands of readers who couldn't wait till next morning to read the latest posts on the aforementioned topics.

jeremyrh

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #371 on: February 09, 2019, 07:04:56 am »

Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic.  I will just have to accept that I give up and may miss something.
Jonathan

The original topic:
Seems more like a landslide to me.  Something is very odd about this sudden, previously unannounced sea change.  Why no hint of this from Kevin or Chris?  No “introduction” of Josh by the existing crew?   Something is rotten in Denmark, me thinks.

Not much about photography.
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Krug

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #372 on: February 09, 2019, 08:35:48 am »

Sometimes simple truths seem to elude even the most experienced and apparently knowledgable of people.

LULA IS A PHOTOGRAPHY SITE.

The main danger to the successful continuance of Lula is not a change in management and direction but contamination by extraneous subject matter.

Frankly the views expressed here about politics strike me as about as substantial and relevant as one might expect views on photography expressed on a politics site to be ! let them stay where they belong ... in the local bar !
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Rob C

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #373 on: February 09, 2019, 08:56:28 am »

Sometimes simple truths seem to elude even the most experienced and apparently knowledgable of people.

LULA IS A PHOTOGRAPHY SITE.

The main danger to the successful continuance of Lula is not a change in management and direction but contamination by extraneous subject matter.

Frankly the views expressed here about politics strike me as about as substantial and relevant as one might expect views on photography expressed on a politics site to be ! let them stay where they belong ... in the local bar !

Kinda agree: I'm all for having an open mind and wide horizons too, Krug. See you down the local, then?

;-)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #374 on: February 09, 2019, 09:44:53 am »

Oh dear! The whole of page 19 is about a political dimension.  This is a photography forum.  I waded through it in the hope that there might be something relating to the original topic...

My initial reaction was to agree with you.

Then it dawned on me.

It is related to the original topic. What is the original topic? About this site>the changing landscape. What if the change involves not only the change of leadership and change of direction, but also a return to political debates, in a secluded area known as the coffee corner?

As with the change of direction, some might like it, some might hate it. Some might leave, some new might come. We have about a dozen active posters who are staunchly against it. The real question is: what does the silent majority want? Judging how hugely popular it was before the ban...


Martin Kristiansen

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #375 on: February 09, 2019, 10:44:46 am »

I don’t care one way or another if politics remains off limits or is reintroduced. The world is full of stuff I am not particularly interested in and I simply ignore it. I did sometimes read the political threads here and even asked a few questions once in a while but mostly I just ignored it. Easy to do.
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amolitor

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #376 on: February 09, 2019, 10:50:26 am »

Perhaps LuLa could pivot to becoming a conspiracy theory web site, like godlike productions, or above top secret!

It's a business model, of sorts.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #377 on: February 09, 2019, 11:06:28 am »

Perhaps LuLa could pivot to becoming a conspiracy theory web site, like godlike productions, or above top secret!

It's a business model, of sorts.
Not really as the site owners would need some pretty hefty liability insurance.  Look at what is happening with Alex Jones right now regarding the litigation by the Sandy Hook families.  He's in a heap of trouble.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #378 on: February 09, 2019, 11:13:43 am »

I belong to a forum dedicated to the van I drive. On this forum, incendiary topics are relegated to “The Danger Zone”.  There is no moderation, this compartmentalization is voluntary.

Inhabited primarily by a select few Americans of the “right” persuasion, the DZ regulars have found themselves in an empty echo chamber, devoid of the attention and conflict on which they thrive. So, they’ve recently moved in to the open forum, to the detriment of those who seek information, not vituperation.

In other words, it’s a common problem.  My suggestion to those who dislike this phenomenon is to not respond.  Read their posts if you like, but refrain from replying.  They thrive on attention.  If it’s denied, they wither.
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HSakols

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #379 on: February 09, 2019, 11:23:59 am »

Quote
Perhaps LuLa could pivot to becoming a conspiracy theory web site, like godlike productions, or above top secret!

It's a business model, of sorts.

 ;D ;D ;D

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