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Author Topic: The Changing Landscape  (Read 41749 times)

JeffS

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #140 on: December 29, 2018, 03:05:05 pm »

Why? Why should Josh subscribe to your old school hypocrisy?

Well then Josh is the hypocritical one, as he expressed sincere thanks to Kevin in this very thread. Many if not most subscribers never read these threads... but they do read the headline articles. For me the LuLa value has come from the written and video content, not forum chatter.  But for now, its the only feedback mechanism I know during the transition.

Jeff
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nemtom

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #141 on: December 29, 2018, 04:19:01 pm »

Why? Why should Josh subscribe to your old school hypocrisy?

I hope they will start showing what direction they are aiming in relative soon. After the 'The Changing Landscape' article I would expect a few examples of what can we expect from them, if the transition was well planned and prepared. If those articles would deliver what they seem to promised, that would silence the slowly ramping voice of the dubious quickly. It has been three days since that article, which is a long time in internet measures.
They need to win the audience's trust, and they did not start very well with this clear cut takeover, in my opinion.
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Rob C

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #142 on: December 29, 2018, 05:23:37 pm »

I hope they will start showing what direction they are aiming in relative soon. After the 'The Changing Landscape' article I would expect a few examples of what can we expect from them, if the transition was well planned and prepared. If those articles would deliver what they seem to promised, that would silence the slowly ramping voice of the dubious quickly. It has been three days since that article, which is a long time in internet measures.
They need to win the audience's trust, and they did not start very well with this clear cut takeover, in my opinion.


Three days. And that is a long time? And who knows the timescale involved in the changeover? I certainly have no idea if it was long-planned or done over a day. If in a hurry, then you just have to wait and see what transpires, and don't forget, as others point out for quite different purposes, the membership is the principal product, something brought into focus when the decision was made to charge that modest membership fee, some feeling that turned their posts here into unpaid product for LuLa, which is not an entirely unreasonable view to take.

Remove the postings from readers and the place folds instantly insofar as I'm concerned. I no longer have much use for tech. info. because I have reached the level of digital ability that matches my current requirements from photography. All I need do is make better pictures, and nobody can tell me how I achieve that, and certainly nobody on the editorial staff, then or now. And it sure as hell has nothing to do with cameras! As with all of us, shortcomings are between our own two ears, where nobody else can dig deeply enough.

I believe LuLa is what it is just because of its membership and the generally sane and informed conversation that takes place regarding photography, but also because of the flights of fantasy and crosstalk allowed to exist in other respects. If it bores, then it's our own collective faults for having pretty much nothing to say. Which, as I mentioned before, is interesting in that most of the negatives come trom low-mileage posters... draw from that combination what conclusion you will.

I hope the new management displays more than a three-minute mindset. A site such as this needs substance, not daily flashes of nothing but glitz.

Frankly, the last great editorially provided photographs that grabbed my imagination ended with Michael. Recent reissues from Chris brought a few back, but they were legion during the early years I spent here.

Looking back is easy and often quite informative, just as it can be misleading in the light of new evidence. However, in the case of Michael, the stuff remains accessible if anyone searches the site. He knew what both he and photography were about. Many people do not know that much about themselves and why their stuff is what it is, good or otherwise.

Rob

faberryman

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #143 on: December 29, 2018, 05:35:06 pm »

I guess my opinion doesn't matter much because I am relatively new around here and condescendingly referred to as a low mileage poster, as if you have to be a long term member to assess the current state of the website, which is frankly all that matters. So while you guys are basking in the glory days of yore, I am just looking around to see what the website offers today. And I'll be looking to see what it offers tomorrow.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 10:17:46 am by faberryman »
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bcooter

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #144 on: December 29, 2018, 06:04:25 pm »


Frankly, the last great editorially provided photographs that grabbed my imagination ended with Michael. Recent reissues from Chris brought a few back, but they were legion during the early years I spent here.

Looking back is easy and often quite informative, just as it can be misleading in the light of new evidence. However, in the case of Michael, the stuff remains accessible if anyone searches the site. He knew what both he and photography were about. Many people do not know that much about themselves and why their stuff is what it is, good or otherwise.

Rob



I dont know the inside information of the change in ownership, or really care to.  Just guessing but I assume the newish owners, want to draw in more participants and play to a younger generation than what we presently have.

This is not a knock on the site, the previous owners or the participants though there is a handful of prolific posters that I know what they will post just by reading their by line and the thread they are on. 

Its more difficult today to share, because the web can be a dangerous place,  but I enjoyed the days of LL following the demise of the RG forums.   At that time LL was a place that had more participation of professionals and serious enthusiasts, from all walks of life, that talked technique, the reason for the imagery, how digital had changed image making and well a lot of topics.

I personally would like to see more photographs with an explanation of the story line, or the reason (if there is one) something that we can learn from. If the gear used for a specific reason then mention it, without it being about brand worship, which usually ends with your camera s___s, no your camera s___s and then it morphs into brand wars.   

Maybe its just the way of the times, But there is about 6 people that get my attention.   Rob C brings up (with links) interesting past photographers whose work was the foundation of the art.   Ulf K is a walking encyclopedia of lighting, Chris Sanderson was always helpful on motion photography and Chris B, when he was posting always had something interesting to show, even though he worked in a different genre than I do.

People like I mentioned would be a great interview and as far as I can tell are not aligned with any one make or brand, or type of camera.   An interview series  like the SAG/AFTRA Foundation Conversations.   Since they interview actors you would think it would all be about acting, though if you watch them they offer up a world of information about the film and television industry and really open up, mostly because the moderator brings it out of them and has no agenda to sell a lens, a brand or a cup of coffee.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i6evbhSIME

Or the Variety magazine video round tables

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4KHeBSRLrM

Personally Id like to see more attention given to motion capture as this seems to be the way the industry is moving, either with dedicated video and cinema production or combination still and motion production, which is more difficult than people know.

Id love to see an interview of a film only still photographer, their background and why they went that way, what is their workflow like and how the heck do they travel by air with 200 rolls of film.

Or why someone that shot film for years even moved to digital.

Im not suggesting this turn into a professional only site, because dedicated enthusiasts add a lot of good content and information and though this is only aesthetics but Id love to see a more modern design, especially for the forums. 

Just my opinion.

BC
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 06:53:31 pm by bcooter »
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amolitor

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #145 on: December 29, 2018, 07:45:36 pm »

The reason one manages the details of a transition of this is because the details constitute a language. By executing these corporate maneuvers one way or another way, with one phrasing or another, with "best wishes" on the one hand and "thanks" on the other, the new management communicates with the workers, the customers, the suppliers, the audience

The reason for this communication is that the workers, customers, suppliers, audience have allegiances, loyalties, griefs, history.

Josh's article on the front page could readily be read, in the codes of this language, as a dismissal not of Kevin, but of what Kevin stands for, and of the people who ally themselves with Kevin. As someone who rather likes Kevin, I find myself bemused by this. Am, ever so subtly, receiving a kiss-off, or is it just the clumsy wording of a boy who does not speak this particular language?

I don't know and, in the end, I do not care much.

On a separate note, while I certainly would not recommend rushing in  to things, the reality is that LuLa has been publishing on a 3 day schedule for some time. This means that the regular readers have a particular rhythm of visits. Some may visit daily, others weekly, but the expect content "about every three days". Miss that expectation even once, and some small percentage of readers will not visit on their regular schedule. Miss it twice, and you really start dropping readers.

If LuLa goes 2 weeks without new content, traffic will drop precipitously. Now, those same readers will (mostly) poke back in in a month or a year, in an idle moment, and you have a chance to re-hook them, to get them on to their regular schedule of clicking. But they're gone for now, and have to be earned back.

You do get a bit of a break over the holiday, probably, which may explain the timing. Or maybe not. I don't presume to know.

But the truth is that speed is, truly, of the essence. LuLa is not a magazine subscription, the postman will not faithfully deliver the next issue.
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Alistair

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #146 on: December 29, 2018, 08:14:49 pm »

Very best of luck to Kevin and Chris on your new endeavors. When I saw the recent developments, I took a look back at the articles from recent years. When viewed as a body of work there is some fantastic stuff here and clearly a LOT of work and time has been invested. Great value for the modest subscription we pay.

To those taking over, the very best of luck in finding the right model for LL's future. Instagram aside, anything photography-related is now highly challenging. Especially if you wish to retain a modicum of self-respect!

But LL is still a respected and well-recognised brand that has fared comparatively well under the outgoing custodianship and that is a good place to start.
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Alistair

Richard Man

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #147 on: December 29, 2018, 10:16:16 pm »

Full on display of "Haters goin' hate" and dumb people bigotry ;-) Ha ha.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #148 on: December 29, 2018, 10:19:57 pm »

I got none, so my impression is solely based on the article and subsequent commentaries. And that impression is that we are witnessing a coup d'etat by a Young Turk. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.

My advice would be for you to switch to decaf.  Seriously.  :)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #149 on: December 29, 2018, 10:20:21 pm »

Full on display of "Haters goin' hate" and dumb people bigotry ;-) Ha ha.

Which one are you?

Richard Man

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #150 on: December 30, 2018, 12:45:46 am »

My advice would be for you to switch to decaf.  Seriously.  :)

I'm afraid decaf ain't going to do it.

Anyway, back to OP: good luck to everyone past and present involved with the enterprise. There were lots of hard work done, which we sideliners appreciate, and there will be lots more hard work.
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adias

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #151 on: December 30, 2018, 02:09:32 am »

Oh my! Just in time as my subscription expired and i was debating about renewing it... I will not, as I will take a wait and see approach! The subscription was justified on the expectation of Michael-level content not fluffy stuff, so we shall see.

We know now who Josh is, even though (as some already stated) if he was part of LuLa and so qualified we should have heard about him a long time ago. Now... who is Irene and what are her qualifications?
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Dan Wells

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #152 on: December 30, 2018, 02:48:39 am »

I'm very interested to see what Josh and co. come up with.

My personal wishes would be:

More content on the art of photography (Alain Briot's articles are excellent - I hope he's still involved). This is unique, with the possible exception of a couple of high-quality print magazines.

Interviews with photographers would be wonderful, hopefully with both text and video - not just video-only.

More extensive text/image articles - everything's moving to video these days (not just LL, but around the web), and it's not the best medium for everything.

A continuation of LL's uniqueness where gear articles are concerned - most reviews here are very different from DPReview and friends - there are  many fewer test charts and more actual photographs. Long-form actual-use reviews are great, as are reviews of things that are less frequently reviewed (printers, papers, odd lenses, etc.).

We don't need another review that says " the Nikon Z7 is a seriously high-resolution body with good to great lenses and AF that is slow for certain applications". Anybody with any interest in the Z7 knows that - but what's it like to shoot one for several months?  As a landscape photographer? How are the big prints looking?

Only Keith at Northlight seriously reviews printers, apart from LL. Really good imaging software reviews (that aren't sponsored) are rare...

Since LL and Rockhopper are no longer affiliated, I look forward to no longer seeing Rockhopper ads disguised as articles...

 Reviews of workshops and other educational opportunities (whether participant trip reports or more detailed reviews) would be wonderful - nobody does that - but they have to be real articles, not thinly disguised ads.

Nobody except The Online Photographer reviews books of photographs, and it would be great to have a second source. Nobody at all seems to review technique books (not the "mastering xxx camera" kind, but the less common things like Jeff Schewe's Digital Negative and Digital Print series).

Of course, we won't see all of these, but any would be great.
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TommyWeir

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #153 on: December 30, 2018, 06:11:50 am »

I see some of the toxic political commentary that made the forum problematic has already returned in this series of posts, I trust Chris and Kevin have briefed Josh and Irene on all that.  Keep matters photographic and I'll be happy to stick around.

All that Josh said for future plans sounds good to me.  Let the new crew at it, I say, let's see what you bring. 

elliot_n

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #154 on: December 30, 2018, 06:30:10 am »

As a dabbler in the dharma, I'm intrigued that we now have a Buddhist at the helm. Best of luck, Josh and Irene I wish you well.
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vjbelle

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #155 on: December 30, 2018, 07:34:55 am »

I got none, so my impression is solely based on the article and subsequent commentaries. And that impression is that we are witnessing a coup d'etat by a Young Turk. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.

+1

Victor
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Ray Harrison

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #156 on: December 30, 2018, 08:57:28 am »

I'm here, "low mileage forum user" as I am, because I enjoy making images and the processes, tools, and most importantly, the minds around it. Photography is an art, craft and story telling vehicle and images are created in multiple ways (film, digital and all of the various categories of those media) and are made visible in many ways, from galleries and theaters to YouTube and Instagram. A site that seriously explores the creation of images and making them visible and the people who do so is very valuable, in my mind (not to mention fairly unique on the web).

At the end of the day, while I'd love to have had a better visible manifestation of what was likely a reasonably long (possibly bitter) behind-the-scenes transition process, all office politics is pretty tedious and for the most part dull. Similar in tediousness to discussions of state and national politics. I'm ready to see what Josh & Irene bring to the table, giving them a laurel and hardy handshake and wishing Kevin and Chris all the best, thanking them for their outstanding contributions to the site over the years/decades.
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Manoli

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #157 on: December 30, 2018, 09:08:50 am »

...  but I enjoyed the days of LL following the demise of the RG forums.   At that time LL was a place that had more participation of professionals and serious enthusiasts, from all walks of life, that talked technique, the reason for the imagery, how digital had changed image making and well a lot of topics.

This. Just this ^^.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #158 on: December 30, 2018, 09:37:22 am »

... We know now who Josh is, even though (as some already stated) if he was part of LuLa and so qualified we should have heard about him a long time ago. Now... who is Irene and what are her qualifications?

Josh was busy meditating.

Irene is experienced in film, architecture, and opera... and currently pursuing a Masters of Design in Strategic Foresight and Innovation. The future seems bright.

Rob C

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Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #159 on: December 30, 2018, 09:45:15 am »

Bcooter comes up with his usual good sense, based on invaluable present-day experience of what the international photographic business is all about.

The gradual strangulation of print space for photographs has seen famous newspapers shed their photo staff and even the glossy fashion mags cut back on their erstwhile monthly travel fashion features, which was one of the lures that many photographers found irresistible about fashion photography, the hell with magazine pay rates. So where has the work gone? Seems to me that the Internet has become the replacement vehicle for much stuff, including for those mags such as Vogue that have a presence both on paper and on screen. The thing about screen presence, however, is that it has few limits, and you can put motion there whereas it's impossible within the pages of the glossiest of magazines. So yeah, articles on motion will appeal to a lot of young people with their futures ahead of them. Thinking of a career in photography was once a rare concept: most people only thought of pro photographers as those guys on the High Street shooting passports, portraits, weddings, pets and babies (interchangeable?), dances and like that. Naturally enough, with no other rle models available, few people chose the life of the professional snapper.

Post Blow-Up, however, the blinkers were forever off, and youngsters who'd never touch a fashion magazine (ashamed, would you believe?) began to equate photography with an attractive sort of sexy lifestyle, with photographs a million miles removed from the grim stuff under the counter of their local french letter shoppe. Jerry Hall confirms that she owed her affair with Bryan Ferry to Norman Parkinson's swimsuit shots of her in Vogue. Photography, music, sex, youthfull fashion and makeup, all the things young people love were suddenly upon us during that once-in-a-lifetime epoch called the Sixties/Seventies. You can't stuff those dreams back away again, because now people have discovered that, as with the lottery, folks actually do get to win the prize. It's a different one today, I guess, but for the select few (it was ever thus) it exists and works.

LuLa could be a great vehicle for nurturing this kind of interest; all sorts of photographs get used in all kinds of ways and of all manner of subjects. Landscape, sports, art gallery, think of a genre and somewhere there's its outlet. Mostly, you need passion, freedom and youth to pull it off. Without enough drive - it won't happen.

If anything, maybe LuLa needs to broaden its scope and pull in a lot of new editorial/contributor blood. There is absolutely no requirement for its owners to be wonderful photographers: what they have to be are good editors and writers. Britain's Photography magazine, a far cry from the then stuffy AP, owed its appeal to Norman Hall, a wonderful editor with a great knowledgs of who was who in the photo world. If I had the magic wand, I'd like to see a coming together of three sites: LuLa, Mike's The Online Photographer and Tim's Leicaphilia. Those two guys have charisma, and both write very well indeed on all sorts of topics you'd not think a photographer would necessarily find interesting, which shows how wrong one can be. Tim's also a great photographer in his own right in the sort of photo genre that attracts me today, and remains possible to do without external help, models or money. 

Guess we shall just have to wait and see. In the interim, I wish this place good luck; I have enjoyed a lot of it, even if some has had quite the opposite effect on my soul.

Rob
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 09:52:10 am by Rob C »
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