Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 28   Go Down

Author Topic: The Changing Landscape  (Read 44094 times)

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22766
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #120 on: December 29, 2018, 09:45:20 am »

Well since neither you nor I know what happened or in fact either of the parties involved, it's a little hard to judge what's right and what's wrong. Bit like getting involved in a domestic dispute.


Absolutely on the money.

It also surprises me that most of the assumed angst comes from posters with a very low mileage...

Funny old world, the world of photo-forums.

Rob

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22766
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #121 on: December 29, 2018, 09:57:52 am »

Rob, no doubt those speciality photo tours already exist.

:-(

EDIT: Here's a thought, you could lead that Sandals Barbados tour! Nice little earner.

;-)

Yes, they sure do, Keith, if not quite in the form I envisaged...

Regarding leading such ventures: shortly after we moved to Spain an old printer contact (used to do some calendars for me) suggested I do this very thing, as he was sure he knew folks willing to pay to go and join me.

I told him that I could see two instant problems:

1. the level of model who'd want such work;

2. the fact that I know, have always known, that as for you, my worst photographic nightmare is beng stuck somewhere with a bunch of camera fans. Being a photographer is a solo art: the only people you want with you are the people you are going to photograph, and they have to be pretty damned special too, or we might all just as well go home and have a nice cup of tea.

Sadly, Graham is no longer here, but in case he is passing by, I mean tea not in the Jeanloup Sieff sense of a cup of tea.

;-)

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15317
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #122 on: December 29, 2018, 10:10:47 am »

Well since neither you nor I know what happened or in fact either of the parties involved, it's a little hard to judge what's right and what's wrong. Bit like getting involved in a domestic dispute.

Not really. There is that little thing called “reading between the lines.”

JeffS

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #123 on: December 29, 2018, 10:26:20 am »

Well since neither you nor I know what happened or in fact either of the parties involved, it's a little hard to judge what's right and what's wrong. Bit like getting involved in a domestic dispute.

Doesn’t matter.  Say thanks and move on. Keep the rest private as necessary. Simple, really.

Jeff
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1616
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #124 on: December 29, 2018, 10:33:47 am »

Doesn’t matter.  Say thanks and move on. Keep the rest private as necessary. Simple, really.

Jeff

Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Logged

JeffS

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #125 on: December 29, 2018, 10:48:12 am »


Absolutely on the money.

It also surprises me that most of the assumed angst comes from posters with a very low mileage...

Funny old world, the world of photo-forums.

Rob

Some people are experienced managing businesses and professional relationships, not posting on forums daily.  When I had an issue or question for Michael, I emailed him directly and the exchanges were  professional and repectful. Good person and smart businessman.  Yes, forums are funny places.

Jeff
Logged

KLaban

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1853
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #126 on: December 29, 2018, 10:54:18 am »

Yes, they sure do, Keith, if not quite in the form I envisaged...

Regarding leading such ventures: shortly after we moved to Spain an old printer contact (used to do some calendars for me) suggested I do this very thing, as he was sure he knew folks willing to pay to go and join me.

I told him that I could see two instant problems:

1. the level of model who'd want such work;

2. the fact that I know, have always known, that as for you, my worst photographic nightmare is beng stuck somewhere with a bunch of camera fans. Being a photographer is a solo art: the only people you want with you are the people you are going to photograph, and they have to be pretty damned special too, or we might all just as well go home and have a nice cup of tea.

Sadly, Graham is no longer here, but in case he is passing by, I mean tea not in the Jeanloup Sieff sense of a cup of tea.

;-)

Yes, it would of course be our worst nightmare come true!

Hang on a moment though, aren't we doing that here? Hehe.

;-)
Logged

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3865
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #127 on: December 29, 2018, 11:04:21 am »

Not really. There is that little thing called “reading between the lines.”
And also Private Messages!! ;)
Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8305
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #128 on: December 29, 2018, 11:26:10 am »

Not really. There is that little thing called “reading between the lines.”

Another potential source of confusion and misunderstanding, in an international context with non-native English speakers, and the (lack of) use of emoticons ...

Cheers,
Bart
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

amolitor

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 607
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #129 on: December 29, 2018, 12:16:27 pm »

Just to return, ideally briefly, to the discussion of camera market sizes, I have to say that the disagreements with my simple remarks were bizarre, to say the least.

Rob, I chose the 1970s since i happen to have those  numbers on hand, and because it is a reasonable stab at "the last time the market was really stable, and not driven by an endless parade of new technological innovations, drawing in new blood constantly." This might not be spot on, but it's tolerably close.

In the 1970s, the market contained Serious Photographers of the amateur and professional stripes, and these people were purchasing something like 2.5 million cameras per year. At the same time, the casual "I just want pictures" people were, as a very rough approximation, purchasing 5 million polaroid cameras per year.

While you cannot *really* compare the market then with the market now, you can roughly line up the 2.5M number with the people who are buying any kind of camera at all today, and the 5M number with people who use their phones. While there are many deeper analyses that you could perform, it's not a wildly unreasonable comparison to say:

In the 1970s we saw market segment X buying 2.5M cameras/yr, and now they're buying 15M cameras/yr
In the 1970s we saw market segment X buying 5M cameras/yr, and now theu're buying 1.5B phones/yr

Yes, this is driven by non-US markets, largely. My thesis is that the rapidly shrinking current camera market is still much larger than historical markets, though, so the fact that the Chinese are buying some of these things does not negate my argument, it supports it.

None of this changes the fact that the camera market is shrinking. Not only has it completely lost the "polaroid" market, the people who just want pictures, it is losing the constant flow of new blood, and new sales, driven by endless innovation. The platform is stabilizing again, as it did in the 1970s, to a well-defined family of objects that are thoroughly wrung out, well understood, commodities.

---

At the same time,the web site industry, never healthy, is starting to gather the crop of sorrow it has long sown. Advertising online is not a magical panacea, it works as near as anyone can tell, less well then any other form of advertising, and is beginning to be priced accordingly. Online ad revenues are largely laundered venture capital at this point, rather than actual ad sales, and that's not sustainable. Nobody wants to pay for content.

The only revenue stream that's doing much of anything is straight-up cyber begging. Running a patreon is arguably the best way to monetize your online content, and that has limits.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15317
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #130 on: December 29, 2018, 12:48:39 pm »

And also Private Messages!! ;)

I got none, so my impression is solely based on the article and subsequent commentaries. And that impression is that we are witnessing a coup d'etat by a Young Turk. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22766
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #131 on: December 29, 2018, 12:49:04 pm »

Yes, it would of course be our worst nightmare come true!

Hang on a moment though, aren't we doing that here? Hehe.

;-)


Nah, Keith, we onliners close shop and go for tea at any time, unlike the field trip situation where you get into "three men in a boat" circumstances and have to grin whilst the model bares it.

:-)

JeanMichel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 487
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #132 on: December 29, 2018, 01:04:54 pm »

Can you provide a link.
Just search for both names in your favourite search engine. Josh has a website re his meditation business, and a LinkedIn profile; Irene has a LinkedIn profile too.
Logged

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22766
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #133 on: December 29, 2018, 01:11:30 pm »

Some people are experienced managing businesses and professional relationships, not posting on forums daily.  When I had an issue or question for Michael, I emailed him directly and the exchanges were  professional and repectful. Good person and smart businessman.  Yes, forums are funny places.

Jeff

Yes, I know that some of us have/do run businesses; none of that alters the fact that as punters and not even shareholders, it's none of our goddam business how or why things change. If either party had thought that it was, believe me, we'd all have been thrilled with the entire (one side of it at least) tale.

Regarding your personal exchanges with Michael, I presume they were nothing to do with the ownership and fiscal structure of the website? I can't imagine Michael opening his books to anyone he didn't have to allow access to same, so regular conversation restricted to photography hardly enters into this, does it? Anyhow, as he is unfortunately no longer in the building, it's irrelevant either way.

As I wrote before, this thread has rapidly turned into a classic example of confusing public interest with public curiosity, and the sense that the owners, whoever they are at any given moment, somehow owe us. Reminds me of last century's trade union concepts, where business was on the wrong track if it didn't think it was there for altruistic purposes aimed solely towards the greater joy of the employees...

:-)

Rob

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15317
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #134 on: December 29, 2018, 01:21:13 pm »

... it's none of our goddam business how or why things change...

Of course it is.

WE ARE that business. The business does not exist without us. The attractiveness of this site is only partially related to the sheer technical advice one can get, but is mostly built on the personal charizma of the founder, his credibility, and last but not least, his photographic talent. If we stop believing in it (personality), if the credibility is lost, and if we see no talent, we'll be out in no time.

bns

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 178
    • Boudewijn Swanenburg Photography
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #135 on: December 29, 2018, 02:00:24 pm »

Well, we are where we are now. Why don’t we give it a bit of time to let the mist disapear so we can see the outline of the new landscape. Then we might find the best marcjhing direction.

Cheers,
Boudewijn Swanenburg

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1616
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #136 on: December 29, 2018, 02:11:14 pm »

. Not unlike Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got into Congress: by bitching about perceived injustices, blamed on the old guard, and offering sweet promises instead (while not having a single clue about subject matter). Though, and in fairness to Josh, I suspect he knows more about photography than AOC about politics.

<sits on hands> :-)
Logged

JeffS

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #137 on: December 29, 2018, 02:16:37 pm »

Yes, I know that some of us have/do run businesses; none of that alters the fact that as punters and not even shareholders, it's none of our goddam business how or why things change. If either party had thought that it was, believe me, we'd all have been thrilled with the entire (one side of it at least) tale.

Regarding your personal exchanges with Michael, I presume they were nothing to do with the ownership and fiscal structure of the website? I can't imagine Michael opening his books to anyone he didn't have to allow access to same, so regular conversation restricted to photography hardly enters into this, does it? Anyhow, as he is unfortunately no longer in the building, it's irrelevant either way.

As I wrote before, this thread has rapidly turned into a classic example of confusing public interest with public curiosity, and the sense that the owners, whoever they are at any given moment, somehow owe us. Reminds me of last century's trade union concepts, where business was on the wrong track if it didn't think it was there for altruistic purposes aimed solely towards the greater joy of the employees...

:-)

Rob

You didn’t understand my comments.  I don’t care what transpired in the business.  All I expected was for Josh to use common business practice and courtesy by thanking Kevin on the way out, whether he meant it or not.  That’s all.  I think Michael would have handled it better.  Who said anything about finances???

Jeff
Logged

farbschlurf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 637
    • fototypo
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #138 on: December 29, 2018, 02:32:24 pm »

I have not been here often recently and only now found out about the news ... I hope for the best and that the good of the old LuLa will find it's way to a renewed LuLa. Never easy to redesign something (technically and ideally) to achieve new attraction without loosing the old basis. We'll see. Good luck.
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1616
Re: The Changing Landscape
« Reply #139 on: December 29, 2018, 02:38:17 pm »

  All I expected was for Josh to use common business practice and courtesy by thanking Kevin on the way out, whether he meant it or not. 

Why? Why should Josh subscribe to your old school hypocrisy?
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 28   Go Up